The Battle of Bosworth is responsible for the C of E

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RichardGarfinkle

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If it were not for that wretched Henry Tudor and his backstabbing allies, his son would never have severed ties with the mother church and created the modern Church of England.
 

Shakesbear

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Interesting. I think the break with Rome was inevitable and blame Henry II and Thomas a Becket!
 

Maxx

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If it were not for that wretched Henry Tudor and his backstabbing allies, his son would never have severed ties with the mother church and created the modern Church of England.

I blame Catherine's first betrothed. Arthur I think.

If he had lived and married Catherine, then:

1) No king Henry
2) and/or something else would have happened.

The C of E is an interesting mix from a transitional period and gives a otherwise unlikely snapshot of a Church essentially Catholic in ritual and yet more or less Protestant in Theology (if you accept an Arminian brand of Calvinism as more or less Protestant).

The last few times I was in Church (about 30 years ago), I noticed that the Anglican Holy Communion was a much better translation from the Latin than the Catholic Mass -- except for the warning about the Euchrist's not being anything other than an "outward sign" (ie not a literal transubstantiation)...though the Hoc est corpum meum was still there.
 

Shakesbear

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Arthur did marry Catherine. He died before they got down to any hanky panky. At least that was Catherine's story. Obviously Arthur was just not up to it. I still blame Henry II and Becket. Well, maybe the four knights as well.
 

Maxx

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Arthur did marry Catherine. He died before they got down to any hanky panky. At least that was Catherine's story. Obviously Arthur was just not up to it. I still blame Henry II and Becket. Well, maybe the four knights as well.

Well, but if it's just a question of revenues and legal structures, you could argue that any Archbishop or even Bishop would do. Okay, not just any Bishop, but certainly a Prince-Bishop in the Holy Roman Empire. Since he is head of his church in the region and has temporal power, legally, it is a territorial church. Moreover, if I remember correctly, Henry VIII had to claim a level of Imperial power (ie not as an emperor, but with some Imperial powers at least in terms of canon law) in order to get the C of E to work in terms of canon law. So that had all already been decided by the end of the Investiture contest in 1122 and knocking off Becket would suggest some lack of understanding of the canon law of Bishops in England in some circles.

Here's the wiki on the act of Parliament claiming Imperial powers for England:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_in_Restraint_of_Appeals
 
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Shakesbear

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Thomas Cromwell has a lot to answer for.
 

Jamesdomus1066

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There were multiple reasons for England abandoning the Catholic church, the War of the Roses was only the last straw.

Thomas a Becket had something to do with it, too.

The main reason, in my opinion, and by main, I mean there were a lot of reasons, and the main takes up about 40% of the total, so not a huge majority, just the largest cause...

Was the French kicking England off the continent in the Hundred Years War. Many English nobles, and even some landed gentry had ties both personal and economic with their possessions in France. The people would likely have taken it as a direct affront from God that they'd been utterly defeated when they were poised for victory. Joan of Arc is really the crux of this, as she was the one who is responsible - as much as any one person could be - for ultimate English defeat.

Orleans was supposed to finish breaking the French, and it might have if the English had been successful.

All the intervening years of defeat undermined royal authority - a kind of Mandate of Heaven, if you will, which led, in part, to the War of the Roses and the Tutor family - a distant relative of the Lancaster clan of Plantagenets - to abandon their faith and adopt a new one.
 

Jamesdomus1066

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Ah, but just because it was meant as an April Fool, doesn't mean it's not a valid idea, and I just wanted to add some further ideas to that. But it's all good.
 
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