Tate Publishing

[Roger J Carlson]

Just so everyone can keep the players straight: http://www.tatepublishing.com/staff.php

 

[Dertie Bertie]

Bruce, the candor in your post left me refreshed like a summer rain after 2 months of hiking through the desert. I thank you for your honesty!

To answer your question about my thoughts on conceptual editing…A lot of people don’t know what it is to be a “good” editor. I consider myself to be one, but there are many times that what I’m editing is SO smart, or SO good that I feel underqualified and I question myself. And I’ve been editing for almost 10 years.

One thing I can say is that proofreading for grammar and punctuation is a very small part of the editing process. I actually proofread for the little things on my first read through (it’s a force of habit for me) while I’m getting a grip on the big picture. After that I feel I become to0 close to the work to be an effective proofreader, so it’s sent to one for that purpose alone. You should see my own writing, Bruce! I can’t tell you how many grammatical mistakes I’ve “read over” because I was too close to the work.

Typically, I consider a good editor to be one who refines plots and subplots; assists in improving writing style and word choice; ensures consistency and continuity; corrects errors of typography, presentation, spelling, and style; and assists in helping the author to realize his or her vision and best possible execution of the work.

Simply being “assigned a word count” as Ryan Tate said his editors are, frankly, is a bit of joke to me. I took that to mean that Tate Publishing basically proofreads. You’re not the first editor to complain about their conceptual editing. However, I will say that I’m sorry you feel that way. You invested your time and heart (your money too, but whatever…you did it with your eyes wide open, so my hat’s off to you) into a project that seemed to you was given a rather lackluster look by the editors you paid for. It’s really, really sad, and I honestly feel for you.

What TRULY blows my mind is the fact that they were going to make you pay another 3 grand for the second book after your first contract specifically gave them first look rights to it regardless of your choice to go with them. Talk about cornering the market, eh? I’d bet the odds that they gave you a hard sell after you said no, but that’s just my opinion.

Again, thanks for contributing here. Your post was a rather fresh road from a circular conversation.

 

[kullervo]

Tatepeople, until you stop charging authors even the first thin dime for anything, you're going to stay in the "Beware" column forever. No matter how many of you jump in with your personable and helpful posts.

 

[Sheryl Nantus]

oh, I think anyone reading this thread can figure out what Tate's all about...



and that it's all about the money, in their case. Just for the record, $4000 can get you a heck of a lot of books from Lulu.com or other small printers if you're that eager to get a copy of your book inhand. Really. A LOT cheaper.

 

[BruceJ]

Mr. Judisch,

Good afternoon! Needless to say I was surprised and disappointed to read about your experience in our editing department. We pride ourselves on the quality of editing we provide. Our copyediting staff tackles the grammatical and technical issues, such as punctuation and sentence structure, while our conceptual editors address the broader conceptual issues our projects present, such as plot development, story arc, and character depth. I only wish you would have raised your concerns while Ben Amittai was still in production.

Obviously a lot has changed in the two years since your book was released, but we are more than happy to revisit your project and make any necessary corrections. We have begun an internal review of Ben Amittai and will update you as this process moves along. Please send me a copy of any mistakes you are concerned about and let me know if there is anything else we can do for you!

Best regards,

Curtis Winkle
Senior Editor
Tate Publishing

Hi, Curtis. Thanks for the reply. Before I respond, I'd like to note that after my post, I received 2-3 voice messages on my cell from Ryan and Dr. Tate, as well as calls at home that my wife received. Unfortunately, I work in an environment in which cell phones are prohibited, so I didn't get the messages until I was on the way home after work.

I intend to respond to the private calls privately (via e-mail, rather than returning multiple calls to address the same subject), and I'll address these public responses publicly, if that's okay.

Yup, the editorial work was lacking, as I noted above. I didn't identify it as being lacking at the time due to what I opened my original post with--I was too new, inexperienced and, frankly, naive concerning the industry, what to expect from it, and what it would expect from me. I read stacks of books on writing novels, editing, theory, etc. (John Gardner, Noah Lukeman, Browne & King et al) to self-educate as best I could. But there's nothing like experience--and great forums such as AW--to pull it together.

When I was working with the 'conceptual editor', my mind flew back to Browne & King's excellent book Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, the Introduction of which begins, "Why self-editing? Because self-editing is probably the only kind of editing your manuscript will ever get." They go on to compare yesteryear's author-editor relationship (as well as yesteryear's editors) to today's. So, in my newbiness, I shrugged and thought, "I guess that's what I'm to expect." That's why I didn't complain. With no other editorial contact in my past--and advisory bits like the above--I didn't think I should be complaining.

I expect a lot has changed in the past two years (and I allowed for that in my original post). My point of contact was listed as a 'conceptual editor'; there was no reference to lanes in the road involving copy editors and conceptual editors. She did it all, I guess, or was supposed to.

I sincerely appreciate your offer to audit Ben Amittai, but we're past that, I think. The book has been on the street for two years and I already know pretty much what I'd change. It's too short (it should have been novel-length, not a novella), there are POV issues, tempo and flow need to be smoothed, and...well, that's enough. (So, anybody else reading this: have I sold you on buying a copy of my book? ) This is the conceptual stuff I wish had been pushed back for me to fix. And apparently you do that now, according to your response. That's great. Glad it got fixed. Unfortunately, Ben Amittai is the prologue to my series A Prophet's Tale, so there's a tether to a substandard product (my product; not laying that last comment on you) I need to deal with in getting on with the series.

Again, I genuinely appreciate your offer to work toward a fix. I know you're sincere, I mentioned in my first post that I have no cause to suspect Tate of anything unethical or underhanded. I meant that and I still do. However, I think life has gone on. I'm teachable, though. If there's an angle I'm not thinking of, by all means educate me. I'm just don't see it from where I sit.

 

[triceretops]

"Also, we do appreciate you submitting your second book as required by contract. We know a good author when we see one, and we always want first crack at book two! We offered the best discount we could offer since your first book didn't qualify contractually for a no-investment contract at that point. Should you have accepted the offer for book two, we would have still refunded the investment for contract one if your book one sold 5000 copies. We would have also refunded the amount of the investment for contract two since book two is always a no-investment contract when book one hits 5000 books sold."

A rather glaring contradiction here in bold. I'm sure you can spot great authors that don't qualify for a no-investment contract. Say what? I'll bet you a hostess twinkie that Bruce's first book was, in fact, exceptional and DID NOT qualify for the fee, or certainly shouldn't have. This man can write clearly and concisely, as evidenced by his post. That was Exceptional. And I'll damn betcha he knew his subject/genre inside and out. Add to the fact that he had to re-edit his book. He did.

Yet you tried to snag him a SECOND time! What, his writing was not up to par here, either?

Get real.

Where's your catalogues, salesforce, distribution and bookstore placement? You have none, aside from online venues. It also sounds like he supplied you with all the potential regional market opportunities. So you did what, cold-called HIS sources to set things up? It's his shoe leather--not yours. Right?

Obviously, there was no conceptual or "content" editing going on here, with his book. It's too late for you to do anything about it. You're playing to the band here, pandering to an author/customer. Unless these are POD books. I don't know. It's not his fault for not contacting you about the errors. Where was your quality control? You should have checked that book the minute it came off the press.

I see that you manage to make every damn post (all Tate people), an ad for your company. Pretty slick.

He sold a couple hundred books--HE sold them. You had very little to do with it. He could have made every connection you did, and probably did so on his own steam. He sold 200 books. And your ceiling is 5,000 copies? Again, get real.

Four thousand bucks and you get a free sale's force in the deal. Not bad at all. No wonder you continue to thrive.

Lay you odds that 99% of your authors are paying the fee. You let an author or two slide by the cost, and publicize it as a token gesture.

This is absolutely astonishing. I thought I had been to pauper's hell with my two publishers. Apparently, I ain't seen nothing yet.

Tri

 

[BruceJ]

My name is Mark Mingle, and I am the Director of Marketing at Tate Publishing. I was Bruce J's marketing representative at the time his book released, and it was always a pleasure working with him to promote his fine work. I wanted to take just a moment to speak to Bruce J's above post.
Bruce, you are correct, we did schedule book signings for you at Borders and Barnes & Noble, and despite the fact that you have signed with another publisher for your second book, (and as evidenced by the book fair opportunity we pursued for you this month), we will continue to look for additional opportunities for you, and we would be happy to hear from you again to continue to do more.
The reason colleges and seminaries were suggested to you as a marketing opportunity is due to the fact that we market and promote every Tate Publishing book both to the retail bookstore market and to the specific niche market for that book. Since your book is historical Biblical fiction, part of the specific target audience for your book would be Bible college or seminary students that would likely be extremely interested in reading a book in that genre. We have had many authors find success as they speak and promote their books in the classroom and in their own niche, so our suggestion to you was to begin thinking of additional audiences you could target beyond the audiences you had already reached at the Borders and Barnes & Noble events.
If you were puzzled by that suggestion, we certainly would like to know that, and we would be be happy to discuss other niche avenues for your book. We believe that all Tate authors should get marketing support long-term, both inside the bookstores and beyond. Please do not hesitate to contact me (1-888-361-9473) should you have any questions.

Thanks, Mark. Good to hear from you again. You were always easy to work with.

I understand the multifaceted approach to marketing. I know fiction writers speak at colleges (didn't Jessica Fletcher do that in one of her episodes...? Oh well, never mind ) I won't go into the dynamics of the packages I sent out, follow-up, responses, etc. here because it's too ungainly to try to recount in this venue. The point is, a novella centered on a single reference to an OT minor prophet probably isn't going to excite an OT prof at a seminary enough to invite the author (especially one somewhere under Jessica Fletcher's radar signature) to come speak. Does that mean we don't try? Suppose not; again, my "limited vision" self-criticism in my original post stands.

I'm always open to suggestions on niche--or any other--opportunities. It's to Tate's advantage to continue pursuing them as much as it is to mine (or rather to the causes I donate the royalties to), as it should result in more "sells" for everyone involved. By all means, please let me know what you have in mind. You have my e-mail address.

Thanks again to Jana for spotting the book festival. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[BruceJ]

Bruce J.,

Good afternoon. I shared your concerns with Dr. Tate regarding your comment "I'm really stretched to believe the ms got read." It is my understanding that you have a clause in your contract that required Dr. Tate to move the book up for immediate review, with a time limit of 14 days to have an offer in hand. I'm would certainly apologize if that happened too quickly, but we wanted to make sure we kept the terms of the contract.

Also, we do appreciate you submitting your second book as required by contract. We know a good author when we see one, and we always want first crack at book two! We offered the best discount we could offer since your first book didn't qualify contractually for a no-investment contract at that point. Should you have accepted the offer for book two, we would have still refunded the investment for contract one if your book one sold 5000 copies. We would have also refunded the amount of the investment for contract two since book two is always a no-investment contract when book one hits 5000 books sold.

I also appreciate you saying that you declined the offer for the simple reason that you didn't have the resources. We have enjoyed working with you, and we look forward to working with you in the future!

Hope you have wonderful success at the event we have set up for this weekend! Best wishes to you, and I'm sure Dr. Tate will be calling you later today. Thanks, Bruce J.!

Hi, Stacy. Pleasure to meet you. Let me jot a quick note to your response.

Contractual provisions of the second work. Dr. Tate mentioned an aspect of that on his voicemail message. I won't address his comments here, but WRT your note, my copy of the contract Tate did have 14 days to accept or reject (the author then had 5 days to accept or reject an offer to publish). If I recall, the contract arrived in the mail in about 5 days after I sent in the ms. The ms was at 90,000+ words. With the load of manuscripts Tate receives on a monthly/annual basis (I forget the number of thousands I was once quoted; my bad), reviewing my ms to sufficient detail to ascertain its quality by, I presume, at least 2-3 people for a corporate decision seems pretty ambitious--particularly a second work following one that has, so far, had a pretty lackluster sales performance. Even realizing that the entire manuscript need not be read for a decision, it seems a pretty quick turnaround.

As far as it happening "too quickly", there is an element of expectation regarding how long something should take, I think--particularly in an industry where I continually hear how long things seem to take. If my hamburger is thrust through the drive-through window thirty seconds after I order it, I'm fairly certain it's not freshly prepared.

I'm more than willing to admit to being wrong, though. I've never worked at a publishing house, so maybe it's simpler than I realize. Please recall, BTW, that I went to pains to qualify this as an "inference, not to be confused with verifiable fact." Just an impression; impressions can be wrong, but I don't think I'm outside the ballpark in arriving at the one I did. Please educate me if I'm that far off (other AW'ers, please feel free to do the same).

It's very true that my reason for declining the second offer was that I didn't have another few thousand dollars to invest in an avocation. I never expected a no-investment contract. Therefore, I decided to investigate other avenues. You folks, as I noted in my original post, were fine to work with (save, perhaps, the editing experience). I have no ill feelings toward Tate at all. I think my original post was pretty even (heck, I even gave you two A+'s!). I gave kudos where kudos were due, and criticism where I felt it was due. I also took some of the weight on myself, particularly in the marketing department. To do otherwise would have been less than honest.

And, at the risk of sounding catty, Tate didn't 'set up' the event this weekend. Jana notified me one was taking place. I made all the contacts and set it up. But, I do thank you for letting me know, as I mentioned in my response to Mark.

And who knows: perhaps Ben Amittai will get caught in slip stream of A Prophet's Tale (which IS better everyone...honest! ) and eventually reach the 5,000 sales point. Then we can all party! (I can dream, eh? )

 

[priceless1]

we are more than happy to revisit your project and make any necessary corrections.
Curtis Winkle
Senior Editor
Tate Publishing

Goodness! For four grand, I hope you're willing to revisit the project.

Bruce J reports:

Result: four booksignings - one at B&N and the other three at Borders. The only reason my books are/were on the shelves at these stores were as leftovers from the signing event, not due to any other marketing initiative.

Again, at four grand...this just takes my breath away. Scheduling book signings is as tough as picking up the phone and talking to the event planner of that store. This takes about five minutes. I have to ask; where the hell is all this money going? Don't tell me it's for the author. I know better.

 

[Deb Kinnard]

Tate, if you really want to establish your bona fides, I suggest you return Mr. Bruce Judisch's $4K forthwith. All the protestations of excellence don't stack up very well against Mr. J's clear and concise explanation of who did what. You owe him.

My take.

 

[brianm]

Bruce,

Thank you for sharing your experience with Tate Publishing. I have a few questions for you.

1) Did Tate send out any copies for professional review prior to or after the book was released?

2) Who supplied the books at your four local book signings?

3) Do you know how much the wholesale discount is on your book?

4) Was the book returnable and were there any fees connected with the return? For example, a restocking fee.

5) From the couple hundred copies sold, how many were books you purchased from Tate for resale?

 

[kullervo]

Tate, I'm willing to assume you all had the best of intentions at the outset. Publish new writers. But you looked at the risk and you choked. So you came up with "author investment." You probably thought that as your business grew you'd sell more books and attract more manuscripts, could cull a bit more aggressively, and become a regular, pay-the-writer publisher. The problem now is that you're getting too well known for the wrong things. Writers who do their research will flee from you. Who wants to say they're with Tate when other writers know about the $4K scheme? What does the writer say at a conference? "Oh, no, I didn't pay! I know I'm with Tate, but I didn't pay!"

If you want to survive, either scrap the author investment boondoggle or leap in with both feet and become a full-service vanity press.

 

[ejket]

... we do appreciate you submitting your second book as required by contract. We know a good author when we see one, and we always want first crack at book two!

That's amazing, since Bruce sold only a few hundred copies of his first book and, as your site claims, you contribute the "bulk" of the cost of marketing and distribution beyond the four grand the author pays out. That means you lost a lot of money on Bruce's first book and you can't wait to do it again!

You guys must be full of faith! Or full of something.

Just a hint for you, Stacy: you can scam the rubes only when they desperately want to believe you. You are looking like a fool posting your ad copy here.

 

[BruceJ]

Bruce,

Thank you for sharing your experience with Tate Publishing. I have a few questions for you.

1) Did Tate send out any copies for professional review prior to or after the book was released?

I honestly don't know, Brian. Mark Mingle should be able to answer that. If there were any reviews--or requests for reviews--I didn't get wind of them.

2) Who supplied the books at your four local book signings?

Tate did. The store had the books on stock and shelved those that didn't move. The specific B&N store shared the wealth of leftovers with some of their sister stores in the city. In this case, Tate really did "set up" the event. Only glitch was at the last Borders signing, the store had evidently ordered 20 books but only received 9. Fortunately, I had some books in the car and I made up the difference in demand.

3) Do you know how much the wholesale discount is on your book?

The retail cost of the book is $11.99 (get 'em while they last!! ). The store buys them at $6.50.

4) Was the book returnable and were there any fees connected with the return? For example, a restocking fee.

The books are fully returnable. I'm not aware of any restocking fees.

5) From the couple hundred copies sold, how many were books you purchased from Tate for resale?

Hmmm...let's see. I received 25 free copies as part of the contract. I bought an additional 50 pre-release and then (if I remember correctly - sorry, I don't have my records at hand) I believe I bought another 30 copies later (need to check on that). Forty of them went out as complimentary copies in promotional packages I mailed. Others went as individual sales, gifts, making up the difference at the Borders signing, and I have 12 left for the book festival this weekend. I think that accounts for all my copies.

 

[BruceJ]

Hi Bruce,

Would you be willing to tell us how many of the couple hundred you sold were paid for from your own checkbook?

I think I caught that on the reply to Brian I posted just a moment ago. Please let me know if I didn't cover the base.

Please keep in mind that I'm not knocking you...I'm going off of what Ryan Tate and his employee has mentioned about how the signings work...that they set them up and the author purchases the books that he/she thinks he/she might sell. Is there a return on the unsold books that you purchased for these author-sold, Tate-found signings? In any casino, I'd bet on "no."....If you don't want to say how many you purchased yourself before selling at these signings Tate set up, I understand, but I think it would prove an important point on this board.

No worries, Dertie. I'm not offended. Actually, as I mentioned in my reply to Brian, Tate dealt directly with the bookstore on stocking the books and they do take returns. I'm not sure about the comment you attribute to Ryan, unless they've changed procedures or something.

...However, it's good that Tate agrees that if you don't want their offer you can shop around. However, I bet my cold, hard green that they tried to sell the crap outta that 2nd contract to you.

Actually, again to be fair, I never heard another word from them once I returned the contract with my regrets.

......Bruce, you are NO FOOL.

Dertie! Hold that thought! I'm going to get my wife. She needs to see this! (I'm kidding. Jeannie is my greatest supporter. She's the good-looking one in the avatar..yeah, I know: that better be Jeannie! You all would really like her!)

Know this: I will buy a copy of your book simply for the above fact. I bet I'll enjoy it, too!

Sincere thanks, Dertie. I hope you enjoy it. I'll send you a copy of A Prophet's Tale when it comes out. (While we're on the topic, I don't suppose you could see your way clear to pick up 4,750 of them...naw, never mind )

Much luck and success,

Thanks much! You, too.

 

[astonwest]

Thanks for the info, Bruce...it's much appreciated.

How much of a discount did you receive on the copies you purchased above the 25 complimentary?

 

[Dertie Bertie]

hahaha!!! Thanks for answering the questions Bruce.

It was mentioned earlier that the author pays for the books at the signings, but I will not doubt you. You've been nothing but honest. I hope you didn't have to cover too many on the back end for the signings. And yes, more power to you if the publisher is willing to send copies in for the signings. I'm guessing you sold fairly well at them to cover the costs of them, but if Tate truly paid for them, well, that's how it should be IMO.

I hope you sell every last copy ANYONE is willing to print, and I sincerely mean that. Good luck to you and your wife. I know the feeling about who's the "better" half. heheheheh. I know mine is certainly the better looking half. we have a standing argument about the general "better."

 

[jose_campo]

Freedom of Speech, it is great to see that it is alive and well. It is also incredible that in today's world an average joe can be a published author. Please let me tell my story concerning Tate Publishing. Five years ago, I called Ryan Tate about my desires of becoming a motivational speaker. He encouraged me to write a book about my life and beliefs. The Enemy led me to believe that no one would ever read a book written by a “nobody” like me. But the Tate family believed in me and the effects my book could have on people. The company came up with a fantastic cover for my book, “Wisdom from the Corner”. They came up with structure and game plan to make my book successful. Whenever I need suggestions or encouragement, I can count on a call from Dr. Tate. Their Christian faith is evident by the way the whole company treats me. I didn’t write the book with the main goal of making money. My goal was to honor God and to be given an opportunity to share my story of how He changed my life. Whenever I feel down, God knows it and will send an email from a reader, telling me how my book touched their life. That is something no royalty check could ever equal. If God wanted you to make a lot of money from your book, He has the power to do so. Please don’t blame Tate Publishing. Their help and encouragement changed the desires of my heart.

 

[ejket]

If God wanted you to make a lot of money from your book, He has the power to do so.

But apparently Tate has no such power, which is the point of this thread. If Tate presented their services as a great opportunity to be pious while forking over a chunk of cash, your comments would amount to a fine testimonial, but I don't see how your experience would mean anything to someone who---understandably enough as an author---wants others to read his or her book. Tate has neither the motivation nor the means to sell more than a paltry few of your books.

We still have the problem of the four grand as well. Where does it go? In days gone by, vanity presses were expensive because the only way to print a book was with an offset run. This is no longer true. And then there's Tate's claim that, even beyond this large sum paid by the author, they contribute a nontrivial amount of their own money toward the marketing and distribution of each book. Are we to imagine that Tate cheerfully takes a loss from books like yours which, as you suggest, didn't really intend to make money in the first place?

It's painfully obvious that Tate makes their money from writers, not from readers. This is the defining trait of a vanity press. A little bit of honesty would go a long way here, but I think no one expects Tate to be "Christian" enough to offer it.

Jose, next time you want to publish a book, go to Lulu.com. Then if you like you can take the thousands you've saved and give to a more deserving cause. Trust me, they're out there.

 

[Marian Perera]

Whenever I feel down, God knows it and will send an email from a reader, telling me how my book touched their life. That is something no royalty check could ever equal. If God wanted you to make a lot of money from your book, He has the power to do so. Please don’t blame Tate Publishing.

The purpose of this thread is not to "blame" Tate. It's to provide information to any writers who might consider signing up with Tate. Pointing out concerns with Tate - or honestly stating experiences or opinions of Tate - is not blaming.

If you're happy with your experience and consider a reader's feedback better than any royalty check, that's great. However, other writers may want different things - such as to profit from their work, or to make good sales, or to have actual publication credits. This thread will let them know whether or not they can hope for such things from Tate, or if they might have to settle for paying upfront and getting regular pep calls from Tate staff instead.

A lot of people were average joes before they were published, and they didn't need to pay for the privilege either. Personally, I'm sure that if God wants me to try Tate Publishing, He will drop $4000 into my lap, and He hasn't done so thus far.

 

[brianm]

Freedom of Speech, it is great to see that it is alive and well.

Welcome to AW.

It is also incredible that in today's world an average joe can be a published author.

Vanity publication by Tate Publishing does not count as a professional publishing credit. Just as having your book printed up by Kinko's would not count as a professional publishing credit.

Please let me tell my story concerning Tate Publishing. Five years ago, I called Ryan Tate about my desires of becoming a motivational speaker. He encouraged me to write a book about my life and beliefs. The Enemy led me to believe that no one would ever read a book written by a “nobody” like me.

Not quite sure who you mean when you speak of the enemy but unknown authors do get commercial publishing contracts on a regular basis. Just as unknown actors, dancers, and opera singers get professional contracts on a regular basis.

But the Tate family believed in me and the effects my book could have on people. The company came up with a fantastic cover for my book, “Wisdom from the Corner”. They came up with structure and game plan to make my book successful. Whenever I need suggestions or encouragement, I can count on a call from Dr. Tate. Their Christian faith is evident by the way the whole company treats me. I didn’t write the book with the main goal of making money. My goal was to honor God and to be given an opportunity to share my story of how He changed my life. Whenever I feel down, God knows it and will send an email from a reader, telling me how my book touched their life. That is something no royalty check could ever equal. If God wanted you to make a lot of money from your book, He has the power to do so. Please don’t blame Tate Publishing. Their help and encouragement changed the desires of my heart.

You had a specific reason why you chose Tate and it had nothing to do with a professional writing career.

AW is a writers' forum and there are many new writers out there who would not recognise Tate as being a poor choice/option for the advancement of a professional writing career. That's why this thread exists.

By the by, how did you find AW and this thread?

 

[Marian Perera]

Not quite sure who you mean when you speak of the enemy but unknown authors do get commercial publishing contracts on a regular basis.

I think he's referring to Satan when he says "the Enemy".

The part about being a nobody, though... that's the exact thing Mr Mentzer said on my blog when he was trying to defend Tate. He said he was a retired CEO who could fly all over the world to do seminars and work with hundreds of authors, but he also happened to be a nobody with no sales appeal, which was why he had to pay $4000 to be published. There was no comment on my bringing up the same point you did, that most authors with commercial publishers were unknown once. Most commercially published authors, after all, are not celebrities or politicians, so what matters is the quality of their books rather than whether or not they are a "nobody".

 

[Momento Mori]

jose_campo:
Five years ago, I called Ryan Tate about my desires of becoming a motivational speaker. He encouraged me to write a book about my life and beliefs. The Enemy led me to believe that no one would ever read a book written by a “nobody” like me. But the Tate family believed in me and the effects my book could have on people.

Hi, Jose, and welcome to AW.

Did Ryan Tate pay you an advance for your book or did you go down the "author investment" route?

jose_campo:
I didn’t write the book with the main goal of making money. My goal was to honor God and to be given an opportunity to share my story of how He changed my life. Whenever I feel down, God knows it and will send an email from a reader, telling me how my book touched their life.

Those are perfectly valid reasons for writing a book and it's great that you've had a positive response from your readers. However, can I ask why you chose to go with Tate rather than explore other self-publishing options?

jose_campo:
If God wanted you to make a lot of money from your book, He has the power to do so.

With all due respect, I disagree. For a publisher to maximise commercial sales, it doesn't need a miracle or divine intervention, it needs a co-ordinated marketing plan, sales agreements with the major book stores in the country, a negotiated discount and returns policy, advertising, editors who know what they're doing, marketing people who know what they're doing and a stable of authors who write books that people want to read. All of those things are doable - there are plenty of small publishers out there with good reputations, making profits and paying advances to authors, all without asking their authors to stump up money in advance.

MM

 

[BruceJ]

Freedom of Speech, it is great to see that it is alive and well. It is also incredible that in today's world an average joe can be a published author. Please let me tell my story concerning Tate Publishing. Five years ago, I called Ryan Tate about my desires of becoming a motivational speaker. He encouraged me to write a book about my life and beliefs. The Enemy led me to believe that no one would ever read a book written by a “nobody” like me. But the Tate family believed in me and the effects my book could have on people. The company came up with a fantastic cover for my book, “Wisdom from the Corner”. They came up with structure and game plan to make my book successful. Whenever I need suggestions or encouragement, I can count on a call from Dr. Tate. Their Christian faith is evident by the way the whole company treats me. I didn’t write the book with the main goal of making money. My goal was to honor God and to be given an opportunity to share my story of how He changed my life. Whenever I feel down, God knows it and will send an email from a reader, telling me how my book touched their life. That is something no royalty check could ever equal. If God wanted you to make a lot of money from your book, He has the power to do so. Please don’t blame Tate Publishing. Their help and encouragement changed the desires of my heart.

Welcome, Jose, and thanks for weighing in. My story is only one of a bunch and it's always good to have multiple data points to discern a trend. In my private e-mail back to Ryan and Dr. Tate et al, I suggested other Tate authors may want to add their experiences, just to get a balanced view. Appreciate you taking the time--and glad you're satisfied.

Look around AW when you get a chance. There's a wealth of stuff here.

 

[victoriastrauss]

Just want to say how much I appreciate the thoughtful and civil tone of the recent posts in this thread. Bravo, everyone.

- Victoria