• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

[Publisher] Ravenous Romance

editing_for_authors
Editing for authors: because every writer needs a good editor.

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
2,121
Location
down by the bay
From what I understand, ebook royalties are typically on cover price. So 38% of a book priced at $9.99 that sells 1000 copies... 0.38 x 9.99 x 1000 = $3796.20. If spread between 20, $189.81 each.

Mind you, some epubs offer royalties on net. Which can be interpreted to mean profit (I mean really, anything from editing and cover art costs to their long distance bill and buying staples can be included when calculating 'net') but it typically means cover price, less any distribution costs, from places like Fictionwise.

Definitely something to ask any epub.
 

Letterhead

Registered
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
4
Reaction score
1
From what I understand, ebook royalties are typically on cover price. So 38% of a book priced at $9.99 that sells 1000 copies... 0.38 x 9.99 x 1000 = $3796.20. If spread between 20, $189.81 each.

Mind you, some epubs offer royalties on net. Which can be interpreted to mean profit (I mean really, anything from editing and cover art costs to their long distance bill and buying staples can be included when calculating 'net') but it typically means cover price, less any distribution costs, from places like Fictionwise.

Definitely something to ask any epub.

Thank you very much! Sounds like it would be not a totally bad deal if it were for a novel, i.e. one author, but in either case the amounts are based on the presumed sale of ALL 1,000 copies. And they could take years to sell or not sell at all. The advantage for an eBook publisher, should a book not sell at all, is that there is no unsold stock for them to unload as remainders. Unlike print, they have not spent the $ to produce 1,000 copies.

Is it typical that these terms are not clearly explained upfront -- what they actually represent? I've had contracts (print) where everything was spelled out to the letter. Is that the standard: you don't really find out until you're at the contractual stage? I would think this is something very basic and should be transparently presented at get-go.

Also, and I know this is a very general question, but if this were a print deal involving a 300-page novel, and 1,000 books were printed, all of which sold, wouldn't you probably be making more than $300 + $3796.20, assuming the royalty percentage was the same 38%? Seems like a novel would sell for at least 4 figures, if not a good deal more.
 
Last edited:

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
2,121
Location
down by the bay
Is it typical that these terms are not clearly explained upfront -- what they actually represent? I've had contracts (print) where everything was spelled out to the letter. Is that the standard: you don't really find out until you're at the contractual stage? I would think this is something very basic and should be transparently presented at get-go.

It is somewhat typical of a new epublisher to not offer everything included in their contracts as info for the general public. And of course the lack of informaiton, or the ambiguity (real or percieved) causes red flags to rise. It's one of the stumbling blocks almost every new epub hits. Once the epubs been around for a while, and have made any necessary tweaks to the contract terms, the info will make its way out. Keep in mind too, that most epubs will negotiate some contract terms, so what you see as publicly available information won't always be what you end up with once you're done.


Also, and I know this is a very general question, but if this were a print deal involving a 300-page novel, and 1,000 books were printed, all of which sold, wouldn't you probably be making more than $300 + $3796.20, assuming the royalty percentage was the same 38%? Seems like a novel would sell for at least 4 figures, if not a good deal more.

Totally different business model. Traditional print pubs will not give you a 38% royalty. More like 3-10% depending on who it is and how good your agent is.
 

Letterhead

Registered
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
4
Reaction score
1
It is somewhat typical of a new epublisher to not offer everything included in their contracts as info for the general public. And of course the lack of informaiton, or the ambiguity (real or percieved) causes red flags to rise. It's one of the stumbling blocks almost every new epub hits. Once the epubs been around for a while, and have made any necessary tweaks to the contract terms, the info will make its way out. Keep in mind too, that most epubs will negotiate some contract terms, so what you see as publicly available information won't always be what you end up with once you're done.



Right. It's good to hear about negotiation, but again, no way to know whether they will or won't and what the specifics are until you're sucked in. I would love to hear that people (authors) are making proper money from eBook sales. Perhaps they are.



Totally different business model. Traditional print pubs will not give you a 38% royalty. More like 3-10% depending on who it is and how good your agent is.



Yes, and you're likely to get a large(r) sum upfront.

Thank you again, Jenn, for answering my eBook Publishing 101 questions.
 

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
2,121
Location
down by the bay
Right. It's good to hear about negotiation, but again, no way to know whether they will or won't and what the specifics are until you're sucked in. I would love to hear that people (authors) are making proper money from eBook sales. Perhaps they are.

Emily Veinglory tracks ebook sales numbers at her site. She focuses on erotica and erotic romance publishers, but it's the best indicator out there at the moment, IMO.

http://www.erecsite.com/index.html



Thank you again, Jenn, for answering my eBook Publishing 101 questions.

You're welcome. Keep in mind though that I'm unpublished, and hardly an expert. Others with more experience may have other answers. Keep asking!
 

Fae Sutherland

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
164
Reaction score
41
Location
College Park, MD
Website
faesutherland.com
Let's base our example on sales of 1,000 books, a sales figure I understand to be very unusual in the eBook world. I am told very few eBooks sell 1,000 copies.

I think I'd qualify that as "Very few ebooks published by brand new epublishers sell a thousand copies." It's not unusual for books at some pubs to sell that in the first month alone. I'm a complete unknown, my first book released with Ellora's Cave this year and it sold more than that in its first month. So I'd say that's probably pretty common for an established pub like EC as far as sales, considering I certainly didn't have any name recognition or backlist or anything to help garner any sales.

I've heard some books with other pubs do as well, though not necessarily in their first month. Loose ID and Samhain both have very respectable sales numbers and I highly doubt it's rare for their books to sell more than a thousand copies over the course of the contract. But then, Samhain, EC and Loose ID all have one thing in common...they're established, they have loyal readers and they have proven themselves to be trustworthy companies with an established and reliable author base.

I'd say it was very ambitious for a brand new epub to assume sales of those numbers for a good while, let alone out of the gate. But Ravenous isn't backing off those numbers of 'multiple thousands of every title", so time will tell if they really have discovered the magic formula to break epublishing sales through that glass window. I admit to being very curious...and skeptical. I wish them and their authors luck, though, really.

Fae
 
Last edited:

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
6,449
Reaction score
1,320
Traditional print pubs will not give you a 38% royalty. More like 3-10% depending on who it is and how good your agent is.

In the US, the standard royalties for large commercial houses start at 10% for hardcover; trade paperback royalties are usually 7.5% and up; mass-market paperback royalties average are all over the map, but the rule of thumb is that they average 6%. And there are usually incremental increases as the books surpass certain sales targets.
 

JanDarby

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
3,553
Reaction score
1,119
Also, remember that an advance is shorthand for "advance against royalties," so the amount received is not "advance PLUS royalties," but "royalties, to the extent they exceed the advance."

In other words, if $1,000 in royalties are earned based on sales, but an advance of $100 was paid before publication, then the royalty payment would be $900.

JD
 

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
8,142
Reaction score
2,668
Location
In cahoots with the other boo-birds
Website
www.staciakane.com
What Fae said. 1,000 copies in the first month isn't unusual at EC (it's not guaranteed, but it's not uncommon) and I know sales are pretty good at places like Samhain, LSB, and Loose-Id, but I also know new houses that did splashy ad campaigns that are still not hitting mid-two- or three-digit sales numbers after a year or two in operation.

Doesn't mean Ravenous will be here with two-digit sales in a year; also doesn't mean Ravenous will have EC's sales out of the gate.
 

JulesJones

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
869
Reaction score
31
Website
www.julesjones.com
Several of my books at Loose Id have done over 1000 copies, and two have done over 1500 copies. Not in the first month, and not all of them, but it's not all that rare when you look at the top tier of the existing erotic romance epublishers.

And my short stories published through Loose Id have generally paid me better (and some cases a *lot* better) than my short stories published in anthologies at places like Constable & Robinson and Haworth.
 

emlynley

Registered
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
43
Reaction score
0
Website
www.emlynley.com
Has anyone out there contracted a novel with Ravenous yet? I've been offered a contract for a novel and I have a few questions for someone whose been through the process with them already. Thanks.

--Em
 

Fae Sutherland

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
164
Reaction score
41
Location
College Park, MD
Website
faesutherland.com
This is...interesting. I'm participating in NaNoWriMo this year and it seems one of Ravenous's interns is cold emailing (aka spamming) Wrimo's.

They put this post up on the NaNo boards: http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/node/3103085

And I also got an email from this person on the NaNo site who must have clicked my sig banner there and seen that i write for EC:

"Hi gang,

I don't know what Ellora's Cave pays for novels or short stories, but there is a new erotic ebook publisher that goes live on Dec. 1 - just after WriMo! Here's their info:

Ravenous Romance, a new online ebook and audiobook publisher of erotic romance, is acquiring 365 novels and 365 short stories per year, in all categories. We are looking for great writing and compelling stories from both previously-published and new writers. We’ve signed novels from many award-winning writers and their protegees, and have aggressive plans to market their work online as well as sell print and translation rights. Our novels are 50,000-60,000 words, and our short stories are 1,500-5,000 words. Visit www.ravenousromance.com to download our submission guidelines.

So...check it out and let me know if you think you may submit to them. They are buying stories and novels now!

Thanks,

Brattyhack"

Sounds to me like they're targeting EC authors? The 'Hi gang" indicates that message wasn't just sent to me and it specifically mentioned EC.

*shrugs* Weird.

Edited to add: I've confirmed at least two other EC authors on the NaNo boards received the same email from the RR intern. Take that for what you will.
 
Last edited:

Chumplet

This hat is getting too hot
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
3,348
Reaction score
853
Age
62
Location
Ontario, Canader
Website
www.chumpletwrites.blogspot.com
I wasn't aware of this. It's distressing. I was solicited through email, only because I had already been contracted with a short story. I pitched an idea for a novel, and they offered a contract based on the partial.

Due to personal circumstances, I might ask for an extension on delivery of the manuscript. I dunno. We'll see.
 

BenPanced

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
17,461
Reaction score
3,669
Location
dunking doughnuts at Dunkin' Donuts
I'm probably going to become a villain now (yay! One more life goal fulfilled!) but I posted links to Dear Author's page and this one over on their NaNo post in case this doesn't pan out well.
 

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
6,449
Reaction score
1,320
I'm dying here! This is so embarrassing (or should be) to everyone involved. It's like FanLib 2: Electric Boogaloo.
 

jennontheisland

the world is at my command
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
2,121
Location
down by the bay
Well, they're not the first pub to try something like this in order to get submissions. Sure doesn't make them look like a good prospect to me.
 

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
8,142
Reaction score
2,668
Location
In cahoots with the other boo-birds
Website
www.staciakane.com
Funny. They went from originally claiming they only accepted agented submissions from "certain select agents" to spamming NaNoers daily.

They also claimed they had a huge media blitz planned for the month of October with author interviews and news outlets and grand unveilings, etc. I don't recall seeing anything of that nature; perhaps I wasn't looking in the right places, though. I am in the UK after all, so it's possible I just missed it.

The audiobooks are a clever idea, though, assuming they don't make people uncomfortable.
 

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,701
Reaction score
1,286
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
365 novels and 365 stories a year???? That sounds great from a reader's perspective, but for the publisher, it must be making for an insane acquisitions process--not to mention getting all those novels and stories edited and ready for release. You'd think they'd give themselves longer to launch.

No offense to anyone who has been contracted by Ravenous, but with a need to acquire that volume of material, it does make me wonder how high they can afford to set the quality bar.

- Victoria
 

Happy Thanksgiving

Autumn image for Thanksgiving