Martial Arts

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Shadow555

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But doesn't kung fu, TKD and karate all have a shoulder throw technique and kick someone in the head?

What would be wrong if the MC learned some kung fu when he was really young. Then as he hot older he learned some TKD moves, then when much older had studied karate? Can't he still train his way up to being a master?
 

dpaterso

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My MC is a mix of karate, judo, traditional Japanese jiu-jitsu, TKD, kung fu, Hapkido and aiki-jitsu. Would this classify as MMA? Or still considered traditional?
That must be confusing for him, is he a student in all these disciplines or is he a qualified sensei/sifu/black belt/instructor in all of them? If the latter, how many years did that take him, how old is he?

MMA is an organization, like world boxing or world wrestling organizations, that promotes its own fights. Fighters have studied their preferred style(s) elsewhere before they sign up and take part in MMA matches. If your MC does this then he's an MMA fighter now, with knowledge of all these disciplines you listed, which ought to help. I'm reminded of that former wrestling champion turned MMA fighter who was knocked flat by the guy who leapt up and kneed him in the jaw in the first 5 seconds, bam fight over. It's the unpredictable mix of disciplines (you never know who you might meet) and no-holds-barred violence that gives MMA its appeal to fans.

-Derek
 

onesecondglance

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What I'm sceptical of is mastery (I'd say that's third dan upwards) of so many disparate styles. I am drawing a line between the dedicated training and perfection of one or more martial arts and the practice of a hybrid MMA style. (Neither is better than the other - they are just different paths.)

I know several people who have achieved high ranks in multiple arts, but they are typically from related traditions, e.g. judo/jujutsu/aikido, etc. Even these guys would recognise that there were people who had greater mastery of single arts than they did.

(As an aside, I did know some guys who came into jujutsu from tae kwon do, but they found the transition very tricky as the mindset of how to engage is different. They were good martial artists but not "masters" of both styles.)

There are several hybrid styles out there that combine multiple traditional forms - particularly in karate forms like ashihara, which incorporates striking, grappling, and throws - and there's obviously MMA. So what's wrong with your character being an MMA fighter with a
grab-bag of techniques from loads of different styles? I can readily believe in a character who knows a few techniques from each of the styles on the list you gave.
 

Shadow555

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What if instead of an MMA organization, he was in a karate combat organization? It's sort of a new type of fighting sport but it's sill kind of traditional.
 

BlackKnight1974

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The key question here is: how critical is what happens in/during the fights to the story? If you're portraying a character's journey, then does it really matter how the fights end (aside from winning/losing)?

Dumping a ton of martial arts specific jargon into your story is going to confuse (and probably put off) the average person, who doesn't know very much about martial arts/fighting - as they probably don't care.

Most of the people who watch MMA don't really understand the intricacies of what is going on (even if they don't realise it) - they just want to see someone get brutally knocked out. The same is true of traditional western boxing. Less savagery, means less people watch/know/care about it. Very few people would watch traditional competitions, because they lack the excitement/brutality of the more primal arts. It's also why you get booing at MMA fights when the fighters grapple/wrestle for too long. TKD is an Olympic sport (as is Judo and Wrestling), but they aren't "mainstream" sports on TV.

Focus on the plot and then worry about which arts they might study. The plot is more important than the array of black belts your character has.
 

Shadow555

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My character doesn't have a bunch of black belts. Just in his past he had taken up some different style of forms of martial arts, through his teen years he studied kung fu, then after his teens his life turned sour when he got betrayed, he had taken up a few other forms of arts like some boxing, kickboxing here and there and tried some other kung fu style for a short time and all had failed.

As he got older he became homeless, then he was found by some martial art teacher/master/or coach who had helped him get back on his feet and get his life together and welcomed him to the dojo or gym. This is where I'm trying to decide whether it should be karate or MMA. The teacher/master that welcomes him in would of had some various backgrounds in martial arts himself, this teacher had studied in his past life growing up disciplines like karate, kung fu, judo, Japanese jiu-jitsu, eskrima.

Now this teacher could have become an MMA trainer or decided to become proficient in teaching karate. Or I could just say MMA since MMA would probably gain more readers attention but I would want to keep some philosophical atmosphere to it. If the teacher is an MMA trainer, couldn't he still incorporate some of his old teaching principles like his old school karate and jiu-jitsu training he received 30 or 40 years ago?

So maybe I should just go with MMA but this teacher happens to have some traditional value he adds to it like some philosophy. Does this work?

And another thing, why is Karate Kid, Cobra Kai so popular, yet it is about traditional karate martial arts? Yet the fights do look exciting, I wonder if this series actually bases their karate tournaments on an actual karate tournament system? It almost looks like a mix of kumite sports karate and kyokushen karate type of tournament?
 
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BlackKnight1974

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And another thing, why is Karate Kid, Cobra Kai so popular, yet it is about traditional karate martial arts? Yet the fights do look exciting, I wonder if this series actually bases their karate tournaments on an actual karate tournament system? It almost looks like a mix of kumite sports karate and kyokushen karate type of tournament?

Karate Kid was a success because of the story, pretty much any martial art could have been used (the last Karate Kid film was about Kung Fu). Karate was, because at the time it was probably the most well known. The story was really about two outsiders who came together to help each overcome their struggles. When it was released, martial arts were still pretty "mystic". It was way before the internet or MMA had given people a grounding in what actually worked in a fight.

The fights in the original Karate Kid (I haven't seen Cobra Kai), whilst exciting, aren't very realistic (speaking as someone who has been to lots of points tournaments). Like I said, it is really about the story and overcoming adversity (including the magic hand trick at the end).

Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson was a traditional Karate champion. He was also a very successful kickboxer, however he didn't hit the mainstream until he got to the UFC. The same for Michael "Venom" Page, he was a very successful point fighter (although he fights for Bellator).

If it were me, I wouldn't get too bogged down in the specific arts, I would focus on the character arcs of you characters and what makes them interesting. If you have a scene where a particular art is required, then great, but I wouldn't include lots of arts for the sake of it.
 

Shadow555

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I see now. It shows how times have changed. So maybe MMA will work after all. it's still the same basic story concept I have, none of that needs to change but the setting will be important and if having a karate or kung fu tournament set up may seem a bit outdated, than I can see this being a mixed art which is what MMA is about. It's important to the story because it will play out how things go down. It will determine how the MC will fight and who in the competitions.

The thing is, if I have some philosophy based on some spirits like lion and eagle, it can still work in an MMA setting correct? I know it sounds mystic but the MC's trainer could have been studying martial arts for so many years that back in the day he learned many of the spiritual principles of martial arts like in karate or jiu-jitsu, he could combine that with his MMA teachings?

Also what if there were kids and teens competing? Can kids and teens do MMA fights? Or can they strictly only do point fighting martial arts?
 

Snitchcat

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You've asked the same / similar questions in Sandbox.
 
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Shadow555

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You've asked the same / similar questions in Sandbox.

Not really, the feedback is a little different here and this is a martial arts thread which I realized would be more helpful than asking in Sandbox. Why do you seem so bothered by this? Didn't you reply this to me before?
 

dpaterso

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Also what if there were kids and teens competing? Can kids and teens do MMA fights? Or can they strictly only do point fighting martial arts?
No, fighting in MMA can result in serious injury, so no kids. Participants sign waivers saying it's no one else's fault if they're injured or crippled. Also MMA isn't a discipline, you don't train in "MMA" style, you don't qualify as an MMA black belt, you don't have a certified MMA instructor (although someone with MMA fighting experience, could certainly teach what they learned). As said above, MMA is an organization that arranges fights. You bring whatever skill you have to the ring and fight full contact against someone else who could have entirely different skills. I would have the MC attend his regular classes to improve his skills. And then if when an MMA tournament comes up, he can pay the entry fee and go fight there to show off. Or get his ass handed to him by someone x10 tougher and faster.

-Derek
 

Shadow555

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No, fighting in MMA can result in serious injury, so no kids. Participants sign waivers saying it's no one else's fault if they're injured or crippled. Also MMA isn't a discipline, you don't train in "MMA" style, you don't qualify as an MMA black belt, you don't have a certified MMA instructor (although someone with MMA fighting experience, could certainly teach what they learned). As said above, MMA is an organization that arranges fights. You bring whatever skill you have to the ring and fight full contact against someone else who could have entirely different skills. I would have the MC attend his regular classes to improve his skills. And then if when an MMA tournament comes up, he can pay the entry fee and go fight there to show off. Or get his ass handed to him by someone x10 tougher and faster.

-Derek

Or I could say he ended up with a really good karate/judo teacher who trained him very well which was a very good dojo and maybe someone challenged him to take on an MMA fight so he entered with the fee to take the challenge and maybe he puts up a really good fight against the MMA fighter or resulting a draw which could create some sort of friendly rivalry between the 2? What do you think?
 

dpaterso

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Or I could say he ended up with a really good karate/judo teacher who trained him very well which was a very good dojo and maybe someone challenged him to take on an MMA fight so he entered with the fee to take the challenge and maybe he puts up a really good fight against the MMA fighter or resulting a draw which could create some sort of friendly rivalry between the 2? What do you think?
That sounds reasonable and do-able, go write it.

-Derek
 

Shadow555

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That sounds reasonable and do-able, go write it.

-Derek

I will. Just out of curiosity. Would it be okay to have the new fighting sport Combat Karate used in my fictional story? It's like a mix of traditional karate with MMA. If my MC has karate training, combined with judo and jujitsu with some aiki-jitsu skills then it can work right? Because they allow throws and grabs in Combat Karate as well as punches and kicks.
 

onesecondglance

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Tried out a local judo club last night. I'm working towards my jujutsu brown belt and I'm keen to get as much practice in as I can, and given most clubs around us train once a week that means I need to hop between different clubs.

The session went well - there was a bit of cognitive dissonance for some of their junior grades who saw me in a white belt but also saw me pounding out throws, but the higher grades got it. Thing is, it's right for me to wear a white belt - while I know versions of some of their techniques, I have next-to-no groundwork and I'm used to finding kuzushi from a strike/block, so in those regards I am a total beginner. Plus, given our jujutsu often assumes no gi, what the judo guys call koshi guruma, for example, isn't the same technique as what I'd do in our jujutsu club. And then there are the obvious differences between their sporting rules - e.g. no headlocks - vs our "if it works, use it" philosophy. Last, of course, there's the basic respect to their sensei and their organisation; they haven't graded me so I haven't earned the right to wear a different belt with them.

All in all, very interesting and I reckon I can learn a lot from them, so I'll be going back.
 

Snitchcat

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Not really, the feedback is a little different here and this is a martial arts thread which I realized would be more helpful than asking in Sandbox. Why do you seem so bothered by this? Didn't you reply this to me before?

Because you got responses in Sandbox, and the responses here are extremely similar, almost the same in fact. Also, the questions and the phrasing tell me that information has been given but not fully processed.

I'm done with trying to help.
 

Famoustapu

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Wondering how did the Chinese know so much about Martial Arts? And such strength they possess even their bodies are slim. Do they eat a specific meal correlated with Martial Arts?
 

vicelimmer

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Chinese people who are practicing Martial Arts benefitted for cardiovascular health, good reflexes, stamina and balance, strength and power, mobility and good muscle tone. Thus, this is one of the reasons why old Chinese people are healthy and strong that their age reaches a hundred.
 

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