Is my story too intense? TWs for A LOT of things.

[DestKitAero]

Not to post yet another thread here, but in this story, all the cats (not Bead Holders/Horned Ailursapients) are the mafia, basically.

The main character was originally a cat, a cat born to serve the Crumb Family by picking kidnap with her family (without payment.), this character was then chosen by a higher-up to be married to the higher-ups son, because cat marriage exists. I guess? Then she's whisked away by the queen's guards.

So, what is that backstory?

-Drugs, and drug rings.
-Organised crime.
-Forced child marriage.
-Slavery.
-Kidnapping sort of?

The secondary main character comes from a background of ableism, and religious abuse, and body dysphoria because she's missing a back leg. (she's a hornborn/deer from birth). 'You came out wrong, therefore, you are sinful. Let's keep you away from everyone else.' type of backstory. Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer inspired, if you will.

The third main character was a Horned Ailursapient from birth, but her parents are both wealthy fleshborn/humans from birth that became Ailursapients. She's less traumatised and I don't think there's any TWS for her.

Haven't got the plot laid out, but i know SOMEONE will die in this story. I have a gut feeling someone will. And it will be gory knowing from past experience.

 

[Unimportant]

When you ask if your story is too intense, who is the audience? Five year olds? Ten year olds? Fourteen year olds?

Probably the best way to answer your question is for you to read books in the same genre and market category as what you're aiming for, and see what is currently being published with regards to death etc. My guess is that forced child marriage will be an absolute no, but I don't read children's or MG books so I don't know for sure.

 

[CMBright]

That list does not read MG to me. YA, maybe, though adult might be more appropriate given the number of mature elements. Do you see those themes in MG books? How are they handled, if they are handled at all?

Then again, my recent experience with MG (kid's books) is Captain Underpants. Kid (currently 14yo) loves Captain Underpants.

 

[DestKitAero]

Well the main inspo was warrior cats / percy jackson, as those are my childhood faves and can also get extremely dark real fast. (I mean, have y'all seen Tigerstar's death?)

That list does not read MG to me. YA, maybe, though adult might be more appropriate given the number of mature elements. Do you see those themes in MG books? How are they handled, if they are handled at all?

Then again, my recent experience with MG (kid's books) is Captain Underpants. Kid (currently 14yo) loves Captain Underpants.

WC did pull off religion, and death, and ableism, and murder, and political corruption.
PJO pulled off absent fathers, religion again, and family drama.
They're both ranged from 10-16, I'd say, I was going for something like those.

When you ask if your story is too intense, who is the audience? Five year olds? Ten year olds? Fourteen year olds?

Probably the best way to answer your question is for you to read books in the same genre and market category as what you're aiming for, and see what is currently being published with regards to death etc. My guess is that forced child marriage will be an absolute no, but I don't read children's or MG books so I don't know for sure.

It's mostly for 10-16. Maybe a little younger if I do this well enough.
Albeit, the child marriage never comes into fruition because as i said, the main character is gently kidnapped by the Queen's Guard.

 

[Unimportant]

Well the main inspo was warrior cats / percy jackson, as those are my childhood faves and can also get extremely dark real fast. (I mean, have y'all seen Tigerstar's death?)

I have not.

WC did pull off religion, and death, and ableism, and murder, and political corruption.
PJO pulled off absent fathers, religion again, and family drama.

I have no idea what either of those stand for.

It's mostly for 10-16. Maybe a little younger if I do this well enough.
Albeit, the child marriage never comes into fruition because as i said, the main character is gently kidnapped by the Queen's Guard.

Is this something you are planning to self publish? Or are you aiming for trade publication? If the latter, you'll probably want to focus your efforts on matching their marketing/age categories (short chapter books vs longer middle grade books vs young adult fiction).

 

[Nether]

I'm not sure it's so much a question of the story being "intense" as it's not age-appropriate. You're probably not going to find a publisher who'd pick something like that up for MG/JF. And then the animal main characters would be a turnoff for YA. You could maybe try adult fantasy, though.

They're both ranged from 10-16, I'd say, I was going for something like those.

Do you know a lot of 16 y/o middle schoolers?

The Percy Jackson series is a MG-YA crossover, but it starts firmly MG with a 12 y/o MC and an intended audience somewhere from 10-12 y/o.

Although historical MG can cover subjects that are otherwise taboo, it's a bit harder in pure fiction. And the stories involving those subjects tend to treat them with far greater gravity than you're suggesting.

Well the main inspo was warrior cats / percy jackson, as those are my childhood faves and can also get extremely dark real fast. (I mean, have y'all seen Tigerstar's death?)

Did the Percy Jackson series have a lot of drug use and child marriage?

Also, keep in mind both book series are like 15+ years old now, iirc. That's far too old for a real market trend.

 

[DestKitAero]

I have not.

I have no idea what either of those stand for.

Is this something you are planning to self publish? Or are you aiming for trade publication? If the latter, you'll probably want to focus your efforts on matching their marketing/age categories (short chapter books vs longer middle grade books vs young adult fiction).

WC/PJO stands for Warrior Cats and Percy Jackson.

And yes, I would love to self-publish. Unless the trade publication is easier, which it likely won't be.

I'm not sure it's so much a question of the story being "intense" as it's not age-appropriate. You're probably not going to find a publisher who'd pick something like that up for MG/JF. And then the animal main characters would be a turnoff for YA. You could maybe try adult fantasy, though.



Do you know a lot of 16 y/o middle schoolers?

The Percy Jackson series is a MG-YA crossover, but it starts firmly MG with a 12 y/o MC and an intended audience somewhere from 10-12 y/o.

Although historical MG can cover subjects that are otherwise taboo, it's a bit harder in pure fiction. And the stories involving those subjects tend to treat them with far greater gravity than you're suggesting.



Did the Percy Jackson series have a lot of drug use and child marriage?

Also, keep in mind both book series are like 15+ years old now, iirc. That's far too old for a real market trend.

I feel like the school premise that comes later is a bit childish for adult, the plot is too mature for MG, and the animal characters are too kiddy for the kid-kids books. However, all of them are VERY important to the plot, so I don't know what I'll need to do. Or how to categorise the story now.

Kids are much more resilient and perilous than people think, in my opinion. Back when I was 10, I would make edgy My Little Pony aus, draw candy-gore in my math book, and roleplay evil dominions with barbies.


ALSO i feel the need to clarify my former response was not meant to seem mean or defensive!!

 

[Sage]

It's mostly for 10-16

That's a really wide range for audience. Most 16yos aren't interested in what 10yos are reading.

-Drugs, and drug rings.
-Organised crime.
-Forced child marriage.
-Slavery.
-Kidnapping sort of?

I would be surprised to find drugs, organized crime, or forced child marriage in a modern setting.

Forced child marriage might be okay, depending on what you're talking about. If you're in a fairy-tale-ish setting where the 12yo is being given to the beast or the dad thinks that his daughter's marrying this noble would save the family's fortune, you can probably get away with it. I don't think that's what you're talking about, since you're comparing to the mafia.

And it will be gory knowing from past experience.

I suspect gory deaths are no good for MG.

 

[CMBright]

A thing to keep in mind is kids are not buying books. Parents are. Librarians for kid's libraries are. Agents and trade publishers know that and keep that in mind when acquiring books for MG or YA markets.

ETA: this is based on writing for kids implying Middle Grade/Junior Fiction rather than Young Adult. A sixteen year old might have a job or an allowance that would permit them to buy a YA novel on their own.

 

[Nether]

I feel like the school premise that comes later is a bit childish for adult, the plot is too mature for MG, and the animal characters are too kiddy for the kid-kids books. However, all of them are VERY important to the plot, so I don't know what I'll need to do. Or how to categorise the story now.

Kids are much more resilient and perilous than people think, in my opinion. Back when I was 10, I would make edgy My Little Pony aus, draw candy-gore in my math book, and roleplay evil dominions with barbies.

The problem isn't so much the kids as it is the parents who need to buy the books for those kids. The majority of MG novels are either bought by adults for kids or by the kids themselves during things like book fairs. Self-pubbed MG tends to do notoriously badly because MG is a very traditional print market driven by a mix of retail, book fairs, and library sales.

You might've been edgy when you were 10, but what did your parents get for you? And how many edgy novels, etc, were you were aware of? At best, you might've been within an extreme niche, which your book very likely won't reach because discoverability is going to be an issue. Likewise, you'll be stuck selling in places that your intended audience is less likely to use (which means you'll rely on parents to buy books). Unless somebody is already an established MG author, I'm not sure I'd recommend self-pubbing MG.

All of that aside, you could use euphemisms and metaphors to have similar elements where it's going to be less of an issue. That way you could probably just pursue trade-pubbing. (Although animal characters are kinda niche right now, and appear on a lot of agents' anti-MSWLs)

I suspect gory deaths are no good for MG.

It's more common than you'd think in anthology horror. For novels, yes, it's pretty rare.

 

[Clovitide]

Not to post yet another thread here, but in this story, all the cats (not Bead Holders/Horned Ailursapients) are the mafia, basically.

The main character was originally a cat, a cat born to serve the Crumb Family by picking kidnap with her family (without payment.), this character was then chosen by a higher-up to be married to the higher-ups son, because cat marriage exists. I guess? Then she's whisked away by the queen's guards.

So, what is that backstory?

-Drugs, and drug rings.
-Organised crime.
-Forced child marriage.
-Slavery.
-Kidnapping sort of?

I don't really read much MG. I did read Percy Jackson, the first book, three years ago and enjoyed it. I don't personally remember it going in too hard on a lot of sketchy topics. The step-dad was abusive. School was trouble, and he had learning difficulty and adhd that were discussed. There was the violence with the mom's death, the fighting, and a lot of bullying.... but I don't remember it focusing that much on the darker aspect. Since Percy took things so lightly it made things easier to handle.

I think it depends on how you handle it, but it does sound like lot for a first book to tackle all those dark topics all at once. From my understanding, when MGs want to get into darker tones, they do so in later books, aging up with their readership. HP first few books are MG, I imagine. We had them in elementary school, so I assume at least. The first book is so much lighter. In the second book, it's chance that no one even dies.

And yeah, I guess in middle school I did read way outside my age group, reading the True Blood series at 12 because my mom got a stack of vampire romance books from an old coworker and she knew I loved vampires at the time. Though, I assume, it's the parents who will buy their kids' books, unless they go to the library and let the kid roam free.

it shouldn't be too dark, imo, but that's depends on how you write it

 

[Unimportant]

And yes, I would love to self-publish. Unless the trade publication is easier, which it likely won't be.

The folks over in the Self Publishing section of the forum can provide heaps of information, including whether there are viable alternatives to Amazon. But be aware that to publish with Amazon/Kindle you have to be 18 years old. Likewise, to sign a contract with a trade press you have to be 18. A parent/guardian can set up an account as your proxy, but you'd need them to be fully on board with all that trade or self publishing entails.

 

[neandermagnon]

Not read the other replies so apologies if I'm repeating anything.... simply having a list of crimes isn't enough to know what age category the story is suitable for.

There are children's books like The Secret Garden (F Hodgson Burnett), aimed at the 8-12yo market, and James and the Giant Peach (Roald Dahl), aimed at the 5-8yo market, which have some really horrific things going on - child abuse, child neglect, parents dying in horrible ways, what Colin's doctor did for Colin's entire life is a whole entire next level version of sick and twisted, etc. But it's presented in a child-friendly way, with a hopeful overall tone, resilient child characters (in Mary's case (Secret Garden) she never really grasps how terrible the situation she was in could have been, or how sick and twisted Colin's situation is*); in James and the Giant Peach, James is rescued by magical happenings and the abuse by his aunts is offset by amusing poems about how horrible they are. Mary is taken away from her lonely existence in Misselthwaite Manor by the Secret Garden, Martha and Dickon, and learning to love nature. Also, her parents neglected her so much that she didn't really miss them when they died of cholera. She'd never really been happy up to that point, so being moved to Yorkshire gave her a fresh start.

*many readers (including adults) miss how bad the Colin situation was, because the details that show this are very brief and not dwelled upon. You have to spot these details and view Colin's backstory in light of them to get the full picture.

Someone (random internet person) once wrote this synopsis of Finding Nemo: "it's about a man's wife who is brutally murdered by a serial killer and his son is left physically disabled. In a twisted turn of events his son is kidnapped and the dad has to track and chase the kidnapper thousands of miles with the help of a mentally disabled woman" - same plot as a children's film, but described in a gritty crime drama kind of a way. It's all about how the themes and events are handled.

Where horrific events/situations are background details seen through a hopeful lens of a child character who's escaping or overcoming adversity and focused on positive, hopeful things (like friendly giant insects rescuing them on a giant peach, or the joy of watching a neglected garden come to life in the spring) then it can be child friendly. Sad and scary things happen, but the story quickly moves on to the positive things. However, if it's told more like a gritty crime drama, with emphasis on the unpleasant details and seen through the eyes of terrified, despairing characters, it's going to end up being a story for older teens or adults.

 

[Brightdreamer]

The thing about MG is that it can go dark - quite dark - but it generally does not go graphic or wallow in gory details. It's about presentation (as much to fool the grown-ups as to provide just enough cushion on the corners for the kids). To quote Seanan McGuire: "You could get away with anything, if you made it fluffy and pink enough. You could destroy the whole world, as long as you were willing to cover it in glitter first." (From "Learning to Write Fluffy, Glittery Violence from My Little Pony"; the essay is a little more about how "girl" cartoons got away with what were ultimately darker storylines than "boy" cartoons like GI Joe because nobody really paid attention and just saw the fluffy pink trappings, but the lesson that applies here is that it's down to presentation. While the young author was playing grimdark MLP sagas in her room, developing ideas that would become the roots of her later books - many of which are horror or horror-adjacent - the grown-ups were just buying pastel-colored playthings for a little girl and apparently didn't even notice that the premier episode of the 1980's cartoon show tie in had those pastel-colored playthings fighting the literal actual Devil. If the packaging had promised grimdark playtime and devils, the ponies would not have been put in her hands in the first place.) I just this last week read a children's/middle grade fantasy story where (potential spoiler) the baddie wind up dying in the terrible machine he'd built to destroy the world. He deserved it, obviously, and there was no ambiguity about whether he'd lived or disappeared, but the only "graphic" parts were a scream and the sounds of the machine doing its thing, turning matter into gold. Had the book detailed the gruesome process and dwelled on it, the story likely would not have been suitable for the target audience, but it was presented in an age-appropriate way. And then there's K. A. Applegate's middle-grade Animorphs series, which never got particularly graphic but handled some very dark and touchy subjects in ways that were both audience-appropriate and - frankly - better handled and more honest than some grown-up explorations of similar ideas (it actually addressed PTSD and how victory is not always possible even if you have justice and good vibes on your side)... but, then, Applegate is a master of presenting touchy subjects for young audiences without getting graphic or lecturing over their heads. (Her Endling series is about extinction and human apathy and even how politics interferes with science; at one point, the scientist the last-of-her-kind MC turns to for help decides they can't risk their career by admitting that one of her species is still alive, and tries to get their assistant to eliminate her before anyone else finds out. Dark? Heck yes. Honest? Same. But graphic and gory and overly complex? Not at all. )

Now, as has been mentioned, MG horror can go darker, but even that has its limits.

As for drugs, I have seen it occasionally - Tamora Pierce had the drug "dragon salt" in her Circle of Magic series, particularly the second quartet - but it has to be handled very carefully. I've also seen allusions to organized crime, but nothing on the scale of The Godfather or horse heads in the beds. And slavery is not uncommon.

Mostly, it feels like you're still feeling out your ideas and haven't nailed anything down yet. My suggestion is to do some more exploring, and do some more reading. Read widely - children's, middle-grade, young adult, straight-up adult if you can handle it - and try to get a sense of how each are similar and each are different, how each may present similar ideas to different audiences with different maturity levels and life experiences. You'll likely soon get a better idea of where your ideas feel more comfortable (and where you feel more comfortable as an author).