Interpreting this R&R

gtanders

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Hi all,

I got a lovely R&R from a Big Agent in SFF. (Someone I really admire, who I pitched at a conference and who requested the full eventually.)

I know it's my responsibility to interpret this as it applies to specific aspects of the MS. I guess I'd just like to take the temperature of the room. Is this R&R... warm? Lukewarm? Just eh about the book?

All thoughts appreciated. Thank you!

--

Dear George,

Thank you for sending me the full for TITLE. This is one of those difficult letters to write, because you are so talented. I know I’ll be hearing your name in the future. Unfortunately, I felt that the pacing here was uneven, and I don’t know if it’s the story or if this is a draft or a few drafts away, but, unfortunately, I wasn’t sufficiently enthusiastic to feel that I’d be the right agent for the book as it stands.

I love your unique magic, which you describe so well, and the scene where CHARACTER’s body loses its integrity and then… It’s so horrific and visceral and visual. Really, it’s pitch perfect.

But then in Chapter 3 [pp. 20-36], I was confused that [plot point... or lack thereof] and it took five days for THE BAD GUYS to do anything. Nobody’s reactions seem quite in keeping with what happened. On page 50, CHARACTER worries about being arrested, and OTHER CHARACTER says, “If they were going to arrest you, they could do it any time,” but I’d been wondering – why didn’t they? If she’s so potentially dangerous, why leave her free unless they plan to pin something else on her? I’m wondering whether it makes sense for THE BAD GUYS or for the plot? Have you mapped things out from their perspective so that you can make this all very real?

If you decide to redo this so that it has all the complexity and pacing it needs for the pages to really turn, I’d be glad to take another look. That said, this is a very subjective business, and it may very well be that another agent will view your work with all the enthusiasm it deserves. Either way, I wish you all the best.
 

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Hi all,

I got a lovely R&R from a Big Agent in SFF. (Someone I really admire, who I pitched at a conference and who requested the full eventually.)

I know it's my responsibility to interpret this as it applies to specific aspects of the MS. I guess I'd just like to take the temperature of the room. Is this R&R... warm? Lukewarm? Just eh about the book?

All thoughts appreciated. Thank you!

--

Dear George,

Thank you for sending me the full for TITLE. This is one of those difficult letters to write, because you are so talented. I know I’ll be hearing your name in the future. Unfortunately, I felt that the pacing here was uneven, and I don’t know if it’s the story or if this is a draft or a few drafts away, but, unfortunately, I wasn’t sufficiently enthusiastic to feel that I’d be the right agent for the book as it stands.

I love your unique magic, which you describe so well, and the scene where CHARACTER’s body loses its integrity and then… It’s so horrific and visceral and visual. Really, it’s pitch perfect.

But then in Chapter 3 [pp. 20-36], I was confused that [plot point... or lack thereof] and it took five days for THE BAD GUYS to do anything. Nobody’s reactions seem quite in keeping with what happened. On page 50, CHARACTER worries about being arrested, and OTHER CHARACTER says, “If they were going to arrest you, they could do it any time,” but I’d been wondering – why didn’t they? If she’s so potentially dangerous, why leave her free unless they plan to pin something else on her? I’m wondering whether it makes sense for THE BAD GUYS or for the plot? Have you mapped things out from their perspective so that you can make this all very real?

If you decide to redo this so that it has all the complexity and pacing it needs for the pages to really turn, I’d be glad to take another look. That said, this is a very subjective business, and it may very well be that another agent will view your work with all the enthusiasm it deserves. Either way, I wish you all the best.
They gave you feedback and told you that if you can fix the problem that they would look at it again. I'd say it doesn't get much warmer than that? Said some really nice positive things about the world you created, but there are pacing problems stopping them from LOVING the book.
 

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So. My guess here is that Agent sees real potential in this MS, but believes it would require major revisions for that potential to be realized. They both don't know if you'd want to make those revisions, or if you're able/understand their objections to the MS as-is.

I'd say this is warm...if you understand and agree with the critique.

Do you agree with Agent's assessment of the MS? That's where I'd start. If you think the critique is legit, rework the MS and send it back to them. Why not?

But if you disagree with their assessment, then they probably aren't the right agent for the book anyway.

It's definitely a good answer to get, though, even if it's not a YES.
 

gtanders

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They don't know... if you're able/understand their objections to the MS as-is.

I'd say this is warm...if you understand and agree with the critique.

Do you agree with Agent's assessment of the MS?

It makes sense to me, to the degree that I understand it. I feel a little stressed because "pacing" is so vague. I'm not sure at what "layer" she's using the term. Existing scenes need to move? Or these are the wrong scenes and she's not getting an arc?

As far as the concrete suspension-of-disbelief thing (specific reactions don't logically follow specific actions), I totally get that. It was niggling in the back of my mind, but I didn't really know what to do. To me, that's just a technical fix--one I've worked on before.

I really want to fix this. I'm pretty confident the book hits a stride with thriller-type pacing, but she didn't get that far. Silly me for postponing that stride-hitting. :/
 

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Oh George this is so exciting, and so cool that she turned it around for you so quickly.

My first thought, having not read this manuscript, but having watched pacing on every show we've been binging on Netflix and so on, and having been in so many critique groups, is that pacing in storytelling is not at all like how real life unfolds. And a lot of times we writers use 'how would this play out in real life' as an excuse to let five days go by without pulling the plot-trigger we promised.

On all the shows we've been binging, once the metaphorical gun is loaded, the trigger gets pulled in the next scene. An exception to this might be a minor clue, which then gets strung along. Somehow that minor clue is lampshaded... as something promised, but not yet.

But in your case, setting up CHARACTER with a dangerous ability means you are promising the reader that the payoff will come in the next scene. At least this is the game hubby and I now play as we watch (in this case) Better Call Saul, and before that Russian Doll.

It's not real life, but if Nacho fills the pill capsules with ibubrofen, you can bet Hector is going to have a heart attack in the next scene. And he did.
 

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I really want to fix this. I'm pretty confident the book hits a stride with thriller-type pacing, but she didn't get that far. Silly me for postponing that stride-hitting. :/

Do you want to fix it for this one agent, or because you believe it'll improve the book?

Full disclosure: I got my first agent off an R&R that took me something like 8 months. When she first told me her suggestions, I thought she was out of her mind, but when I thought about it, I decided it would be interesting to try. She had me send her chunks as I progressed, so I got periodic encouragement. In the end, it was a MUCH better book. (The agent was ultimately a disaster for me - you know this :) - but regardless of her other massive flaws, she was a bloody good editor.)

My opinion: Pay attention to your instincts on craft. If you want to attempt a revision, base it on improving your own skill set, not on whether you think this agent would take the book on if you changed it (because you can't know they will).

In general? If you're aware there's something in the book that could be better, it never hurts to take a whack at improving it, even if you're not sure in this moment quite how that would happen. Every time we, as writers, venture into the unknown to attempt something new, we're leveling up. We get nowhere if we don't take chances.
 

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Oh George this is so exciting, and so cool that she turned it around for you so quickly.

Thanks Patty! :) I'm trying to keep that perspective. It is exciting. Even if she ends up rejecting it eventually, she invested her brainpower in me, and the book will get better. That's classy on her part.

pacing in storytelling is not at all like how real life unfolds.

once the metaphorical gun is loaded, the trigger gets pulled in the next scene.

I get that. I'm kicking myself that I didn't realize I had a loaded gun and lack of trigger-pulling. I'll chalk it up to 7 ground-up rewrites and an inability to see with fresh eyes!

you are promising the reader that the payoff will come in the next scene.

Thank you. That's such a great way to put it. Really, it's a contract-with-the-reader issue.

Which... really, I should be excited. At dinner at this conference, the agent said the main thing she looks for is voice. I was thinking, pffft, my writing has no voice, it's transparent. Apparently she liked it! She also said she was looking for something she'd never seen before. When she read my query during the pitch, she said, "Huh. This seems different."

So I feel like... at least for her, there are plenty of "It" factors that are working here. And I stumbled on something basic! Seriously, dude! Get it together! :ROFLMAO:
 
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Brigid Barry

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It makes sense to me, to the degree that I understand it. I feel a little stressed because "pacing" is so vague. I'm not sure at what "layer" she's using the term. Existing scenes need to move? Or these are the wrong scenes and she's not getting an arc?

As far as the concrete suspension-of-disbelief thing (specific reactions don't logically follow specific actions), I totally get that. It was niggling in the back of my mind, but I didn't really know what to do. To me, that's just a technical fix--one I've worked on before.

I really want to fix this. I'm pretty confident the book hits a stride with thriller-type pacing, but she didn't get that far. Silly me for postponing that stride-hitting. :/
I'd say the scenes need to move.

For what it's worth, I got two R&Rs on my fantasy novel that I said no to, because the change to fit a specific arc ruined part of the novel. Was I a fool for turning them down? Some days I wonder.
 

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Do you want to fix it for this one agent, or because you believe it'll improve the book?

Am I allowed to say... both? :)

The book will definitely improve. I agree with her critique.

My opinion: Pay attention to your instincts on craft. If you want to attempt a revision, base it on improving your own skill set, not on whether you think this agent would take the book on if you changed it (because you can't know they will).

In general? If you're aware there's something in the book that could be better, it never hurts to take a whack at improving it, even if you're not sure in this moment quite how that would happen. Every time we, as writers, venture into the unknown to attempt something new, we're leveling up. We get nowhere if we don't take chances.

Thank you. That's great advice.
 
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gtanders

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I'd say the scenes need to move.

OK, I can do that! :p

I got two R&Rs on my fantasy novel that I said no to, because the change to fit a specific arc ruined part of the novel.

That's what I'm dreading. She didn't get that far.

In your case, if it took the novel in a direction you didn't agree with, I feel like you did the right thing.
 

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So I feel like... at least for her, there are plenty of "It" factors that are working here. And I stumbled on something basic! Seriously, dude! Get it together! :ROFLMAO:
We are only juggling like 30 balls in these stories.

For what it's worth, I got two R&Rs on my fantasy novel that I said no to, because the change to fit a specific arc ruined part of the novel. Was I a fool for turning them down? Some days I wonder.

And all of this assumes we are writing for ~ Hollywood and mass consumption. We might not be doing that, since there are other ways to write and other stories worth telling. :)
 

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At dinner at this conference, the agent said the main thing she looks for is voice. I was thinking, pffft, my writing has no voice, it's transparent. Apparently she liked it!

I think people often mistake what voice is. Voice is the aspect of writing that makes me forget there's an author behind what I'm reading. "Transparent" is a perfect voice.

I also believe voice is the hardest skill to learn, as it eventually has to be instinctive.
 

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I think people often mistake what voice is. Voice is the aspect of writing that makes me forget there's an author behind what I'm reading. "Transparent" is a perfect voice.

I also believe voice is the hardest skill to learn, as it eventually has to be instinctive.

Ohhh that's so great to hear. Here I was, thinking it had to be voicey, like a bad YA novel . :p

Sorry, sorry...
 
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Congratulations for getting the interest of such a big agent. That's an achievement in itself.

When she says 'uneven pacing', maybe she means that some parts drag slightly and some are a little rushed? What she said about the bad guys taking 5 days to do anything is pretty self-explanatory. It probably wouldn't be too hard to fix that part.

The whole tone seemed pretty warm to me, and it sounds like she'd actually be willing to take another look if you makes the changes she suggests, which is pretty cool. If you think her suggested changes would make it a better novel, I guess you might as well try it.

Best of luck with whatever you decide!
 
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Mostly "What to Do" comes down to whether you agree with the critique or not, and whether you think you can make significant changes that improve the story flow while maintaining your vision.

Have you had this mss in beta hands? Does Agent's opinion overlap with reader opinions?
 

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That’s an amazing response from the agent. Its definitely very warm. If you agree with her criticisms you can’t lose by working to improve the ms. If you don’t understand some points, ask her.
congratulations.
 

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Hi all,

I got a lovely R&R from a Big Agent in SFF. (Someone I really admire, who I pitched at a conference and who requested the full eventually.)

I know it's my responsibility to interpret this as it applies to specific aspects of the MS. I guess I'd just like to take the temperature of the room. Is this R&R... warm? Lukewarm? Just eh about the book?

All thoughts appreciated. Thank you!

--

Dear George,

Thank you for sending me the full for TITLE. This is one of those difficult letters to write, because you are so talented. I know I’ll be hearing your name in the future. Unfortunately, I felt that the pacing here was uneven, and I don’t know if it’s the story or if this is a draft or a few drafts away, but, unfortunately, I wasn’t sufficiently enthusiastic to feel that I’d be the right agent for the book as it stands.

I love your unique magic, which you describe so well, and the scene where CHARACTER’s body loses its integrity and then… It’s so horrific and visceral and visual. Really, it’s pitch perfect.

But then in Chapter 3 [pp. 20-36], I was confused that [plot point... or lack thereof] and it took five days for THE BAD GUYS to do anything. Nobody’s reactions seem quite in keeping with what happened. On page 50, CHARACTER worries about being arrested, and OTHER CHARACTER says, “If they were going to arrest you, they could do it any time,” but I’d been wondering – why didn’t they? If she’s so potentially dangerous, why leave her free unless they plan to pin something else on her? I’m wondering whether it makes sense for THE BAD GUYS or for the plot? Have you mapped things out from their perspective so that you can make this all very real?

If you decide to redo this so that it has all the complexity and pacing it needs for the pages to really turn, I’d be glad to take another look. That said, this is a very subjective business, and it may very well be that another agent will view your work with all the enthusiasm it deserves. Either way, I wish you all the best.
Wow, no advice, sorry, I'm just so flipping jealous you got this level of feedback. That's a great sign, I think.
 
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lizmonster

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Thank you all, I appreciate it. :) I'm honestly just stressed. I've been journaling ways out of the current state of the story, but scared to dive in.

It's hard!

And I don't know if it helps, but...you have absolute power over these words. If you don't like what they're doing, you can change them. If your ideas aren't working, you can cast about until you have new ones. You are the source of all that is good for this book, no matter how challenging.

You can do this. What happens next is out of your hands, but this part is yours.
 

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It's hard!

And I don't know if it helps, but...you have absolute power over these words. If you don't like what they're doing, you can change them. If your ideas aren't working, you can cast about until you have new ones. You are the source of all that is good for this book, no matter how challenging.

You can do this. What happens next is out of your hands, but this part is yours.

Thanks Liz, I appreciate that. :)
 

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Diving in is rough, though maybe the hesitation is simply your subconscious working through it. Which means you are diving in at a different level.

I've been writing a blog post about the involved author style. It's a means for me to itemize all the things I need to do before the next revision on this current project. Bullet-pointing the tricks and tools has been very helpful to me to get my head around the specifics of what I need to do next.

It sounds like your journaling might be accomplishing the same.

I also wonder if you are wrestling with whether the recommended changes challenges your ideas about whether this agent is really the best fit for the manuscript? That could be at play too.

No need to answer, of course. Good luck.
 
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gtanders

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Thanks Patty, I appreciate it!
I also wonder if you are wrestling with whether the recommended changes challenges your ideas about whether this agent is really the best fit for the manuscript? That could be at play too.

It's possible, but I think I agree. On a past project, I was told things moved too fast, so I probably overcorrected here and slowed down too much. Thriller pacing is my natural mode, so I just need to tap into it.
 

gtanders

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Welp... 4 months is up, I finished the MS on Friday, and I'm about to send it back tomorrow. Eeeeek!

Does anyone know what this letter should look like? I have a draft, just wondering.

Thanks all!
 

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Dear Wonderful Agent
Thank you for your detailed comments on my manuscript "name". I have thought deeply about it and worked hard on it. I hope I have taken it in the right direction.
Attached for your consideration.
 
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