• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

Global Talent Representatives (formerly National Writers L.A.) (Andrew Whelchel)

editing_for_authors
Editing for authors: because every writer needs a good editor.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,781
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com

CrazyWriter

Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
22
Reaction score
2
Thanks for the link!


And I'm happy to report that I am not one to pee on the shoe of the person(s) I may need to walk beside me, just because someone else has already grabbed my hand. If I sent very nice letters back, will the bridge I'd like to re-cross welcome my tread? Or should I unearth my hammer and nails and start building again?
 

CaoPaux

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
13,780
Reaction score
1,607
Location
Coastal Desert
Well, presuming your previous notice was a polite "hi, thanks for your interest, but I just signed with somebody", I'd think you could send the requested material with a letter along the lines of "hi, you previously expressed interest in my ms. It's become available again, so here you go."

Hopefully, you've spent the interim revising and polishing so it's even better than when you first queried. :)
 

CrazyWriter

Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
22
Reaction score
2
The pit may be filled with smoke, but it feels better.

Perhaps I'm an even bigger schmuck now than I was a year ago when I signed with Andy, but I've spoken with him, and whether it was smoke he filled a certain orifice with or not, I feel better about his representation. That said, he better make $475 go a long way, because the two dimes I have left to rub together are staying in my pocket with the lint and bubblegum wrappers that keep them company.
 

CrazyWriter

Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
22
Reaction score
2
Thanks CaoPaux. That's great advice for potential future need. And you can rest assured: as is true of anyone blessed (or cursed as is true on occasion) with writer's blood, my work doesn't sit dusty for long.
 

EasyRider

Andy and Sandy

The National Writers Association is run by Sandy Whelchel. She charges $ to evaluate manuscripts and claims to forward them to the appropriate agent. However her SON, Andy Whelchel, runs National Writer's Literary Agency. See any conflict here? You decide.
 
Last edited:

EasyRider

The only place a writer should sign a check is on the back

If that's the case, AW should have refunded my whole $375 when I parted company with him recently. All I got was a $20 check and a funky list of supposed submissions. He charges apx $22+ to copy each manuscript, even though I sent him extra copies, then $22+ each to mail them (total almost $50 per submission). The beaten-up copy he returned to me cost about $3.60 to ship. In a year, he only did 6 submissions, some were to contacts I had provided.

I learned the hard way that the only place a writer should sign a check is on the back.

victoriastrauss said:
As of my most recent documentation (July 2005), Mr. Whelchel appears to have discontinued the upfront fee ...He's going back to his previous policy, which was to bill monthly for postage and photocopying costs. This still isn't typical practice, but it's not as atypical as the upfront fee...

- Victoria
 

CrazyWriter

Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
22
Reaction score
2
P&E

I am so glad I sat on top a fan to get the smoke cleared and terminated him before morning. It's hard to let go of a dream when you see some light, but it turns out he just shines it in his clients' eyes so they don't see what's really going on. He didn't copy me on even one letter--not those he sent, nor those he got back. And perhaps the "quarterly" statements he was supposed to send accounting for my "deposit" for costs just got lost in the mail, but I didn't get those either.

I wrote P&E and requested they put him on their really not recommended list so others may avoid the trap we fell into.
 

DaveKuzminski

Preditors & Editors
Requiescat In Pace
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
5,036
Reaction score
858
Location
Virginia
Website
anotherealm.com
CrazyWriter said:
I wrote P&E and requested they put him on their really not recommended list so others may avoid the trap we fell into.

They've been not recommended by P&E for some while now. What's more, they're not happy about that, either.
 

CrazyWriter

Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
22
Reaction score
2
I saw he's "not recommended"--too late, though-- but others are "Strongly not recommended." Andy and National Writers Literary Agency should fall under that category. I can't imagine any worse than him except, perhaps, an agent who steals client work. I’ve got my fingers crossed he isn't one of these guys too! I'd like to see P&E list specific issues with the agents they don't recommend, which may help to dissuade these folks from being dirt bags. Writers have enough to worry about without our "advocates" working against us! When I mentioned P&E to Andy his comment was something along the line of Yeah, I need to tell them to get off my back.

Apparently more people need to climb on!
 

Ashleen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
66
Reaction score
2
Location
Tucson, AZ
Website
www.AshleenOGaea.com
Andrew Whelchel & another agent

Merry hi, all!

I'm new here, just today -- and this weekend at the Society of Southwest Authors' Wrangling with Writing conference, a friend of mine and I both had meetings with Andrew Whelchel. I ended up at this site when I couldn't find a site for him or his agency.

He didn't say anything to either of us about fees, but asked me to mail him samples of my work and took the samples my friend had with her, and showed us both great enthusiasm. Now that we've seen the comments in this forum, we are trying to consider it a "writerly experience" to have encountered someone who may be a bum agent; and instead of being depressed about it, to use the energy of our excitement for the work of continuing to look for agents.
tongue.gif
(And I'm sending my packet anyhow, because this is a situation in which, like Frank Zappa, I'd rather be wrong than afraid.)


I met another agent at this conference: Nancy Gallt. Couldn't find a website for her, either, though I did see her mentioned as the agent for several books, and as a speaker at several conferences. Has anyone had any experience with her??

Thanks & blessings,
Ashleen O'Gaea
Tucson, AZ

 

Ashleen

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
66
Reaction score
2
Location
Tucson, AZ
Website
www.AshleenOGaea.com
Whelchel ... general question

Someone wondered how Whelchel or any agent could make 22 submissions in a year, and an answer came back, "simultaneous submissions." I was under the impression that agents sent queries first, or checked by phone with their contacts at publishers. No?

I'm also hearing that Whelchel's discontinued the practice of asking for expenses up front, and now bills monthly. I've only been with two other agents, one new to the biz and one established, and neither of them ever charged me for copying or postage.

I heartily agree with whoever said something like the only place a writer should sign a check is on the back. ;)

Blessings & thanks to all who've shed light on this agent dilemma,
Ashleen
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,781
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
Agents can, indeed, make simultaneous submissions (they're called "auctions"), a thing that individual authors can't do.

What does he bill monthly for? I look askance at any agent who looks for a check from any author, for any reason, at any time. He should take his expenses out of the advance when the book sells.
 

CrazyWriter

Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
22
Reaction score
2
Ashleen, DO NOT SIGN WITH HIM! I'm out $475, because I bought into his enthusiasm, and apart from a few initial letters and the contract he sent me, I didn't hear a single word from him, not about how he was spending my money, nor about who he was submitting my work to. It's been nearly 2 months since I terminated my contract with him and asked for the return of my fees--the whole $475 should be available, since I've received nothing from him indicating he used it to actually send out my ms--and I've heard NOTHING from him, despite follow up inquiries.
I understand your excitement with the prospects he (pretend) offers; I fell for them myself, but I'll bet the same $475 I lost--hmmm, can't really do that now that it's gone, can I?--that if you sign on with Andrew, you'll regret it and be out money you could have spent sending your query and ms out to agents who might actually do something productive with it.
If it sounds like I'm on a rant, it's because I am. I wasted a year with that man, and if there's any such thing as Karma, he's due for lightening to strike. How about you not be wrong OR afraid? Send your info elsewhere!
 

SuspenseWriter

Have I Been Whelcheled?

I received a contract from Andrew this past summer. I called him about the upfront fee and he removed it and advised he would bill me monthly/quarterly. As of now, I have received no bills--nor have I received any advances. I know part of our job as writers is to sit and wait, but now that I have come across this thread, I wonder if I am waiting for nothing. Is there no one with any positive feedback about Andrew or his agency?
emoticoncry.gif
 

batgirl

Writting broad
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
281
Location
Vancouver Island
Website
bmlgordon.com
Hi Suspense, and welcome. I'm sure there'll be others along in a minute to tell you this, but the best thing is to terminate your contract asap, and start looking for an agent who doesn't bill you. It doesn't matter how they collect, upfront or monthly - the only legitimate collecting comes when you're signed by a publisher.
And as has been said by wiser and more experienced people than me, your job isn't to sit and wait, it's to start your next (and better, because you've had practice now) book.
-Barbara
 

SuspenseWriter

No Requests for Money to Dade

barbara: thanks so much for your response. to date, whelchel has not asked for any money, although he says he has been shopping the manuscript. he would have to give me a damn good accounting, though, if he did ask for dollars.
i have already begun #2, but just hoped against hoped that andrew was legit. it appears no one is rushing to tell me that he is, though and i am thoroughly bummed!
the thought of terminating and starting again with all the rejection letters is overwhelming, but barring anyone shouting out that they have had success with him, i guess that's the only path.
sadness.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
674
Ashleen said:
Someone wondered how Whelchel or any agent could make 22 submissions in a year, and an answer came back, "simultaneous submissions." I was under the impression that agents sent queries first, or checked by phone with their contacts at publishers. No?
I find it very hard to believe that anyone could make 22 sequential submissions in a year. The industry just doesn't work that fast.

If a real agent is making multiple simultaneous submissions, it's because they're goosing the recipient publishing houses to act quickly. In that case, you should have a sale by now. But you don't, so either the submission's bad enough that no one feels any sense of urgency about it
(sorry, I'm just explaining how things work), or the agent is incapable of getting anyone's attention in the industry, or both, or the agent's lying about the submissions.

I'm also very dubious about 22 submissions because few books are suitable for 22 different publishers. Even if an agent is shopping it around to a bunch of houses simultaneously, 22 is an awfully large number. If we're talking about one book, 22 is an excessively large number.
I'm also hearing that Whelchel's discontinued the practice of asking for expenses up front, and now bills monthly.
He bills monthly for copying and postage? If he's your agent, fire the SOB. He's been lying to you.

Charging for copying and postage does explain how he could claim to have done 22 submissions in a year. He's charging the author per submission, and claiming to have made submissions far in excess of reality. It's next to impossible for authors to find out whether a claimed submission actually happened.
I've only been with two other agents, one new to the biz and one established, and neither of them ever charged me for copying or postage.
That's right. There are certain very limited circumstances in which some agents charge for some copying jobs, but those have nothing to do with newbie authors.
I heartily agree with whoever said something like the only place a writer should sign a check is on the back.
And setups like this are the reason Yog formulated that law in the first place.
 

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,704
Reaction score
1,305
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
HapiSofi said:
If a real agent is making multiple simultaneous submissions, it's because they're goosing the recipient publishing houses to act quickly. In that case, you should have a sale by now. But you don't, so either the submission's bad enough that no one feels any sense of urgency about it (sorry, I'm just explaining how things work), or the agent is incapable of getting anyone's attention in the industry, or both, or the agent's lying about the submissions.
Or the agent is blitzing. That's always the first thing I think of when I see something like this.

- Victoria
 

SuspenseWriter

It appears there is no good news coming forth about Andrew Whelchel...however, (as I keep saying)--he has not billed me at all and tells me he is shopping my manuscript. So long as there are no charges--bogus or otherwise--and so long as there are no other agents scrambling for my work, my quandry is whether to sit tight with him and perhaps shop for another agent during the fallow period, or break it off officially.
It absolutely boggles my mind that there is NOT ONE good word being said about him, although, it would seem that those who are happy with him and have actually been published through his efforts, would not be online here worrying about other people's work being handled properly.
 
Last edited:

Aconite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
3,589
Reaction score
955
SuspenseWriter, the problem is that every editor and publisher this guy submits to is one more your next legitimate agent can't submit to.

And if you think the people here speaking out against him haven't been published, you didn't do your homework.
 

SuspenseWriter

Misunderstood

Sorry Aconite--I was not slurring the writers in these posts at all. I recognize that there are many published people involved in this thread. My thought was that the writers who have been published as a result of Whelchel's efforts would most probably not be online here commiserating with others who have had unfortunate experiences with him. There is no doubt in my mind that Andrew has led some serious writers down the primrose path--he has clearly gotten comfortable with deposits and not followed through. My thought was (call it wishful thinking) that anyone who actually has gotten published through Andrew would not be at this particular website...
Of course, I was hoping that 15 or 20 writers would jump in immediately after my post swearing they are now rich and famous as a result of Andrew's work...after all, I am a writer and my imagination is often in control of my mind, while logic hides deep within!
 

batgirl

Writting broad
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
1,680
Reaction score
281
Location
Vancouver Island
Website
bmlgordon.com
Hi Suspense,
sadness, yes, to feel that you're at the bottom of the mountain you thought you'd climbed. Not fun at all. But at least you have the experience now, and some idea how to spot a scammer next time. If you've been browsing the threads here, you know about checking Preditors and Editors, and Writer Beware to get information before you submit to someone else.
I wish I could tell you different, but on the occasions when people do pop up to defend their beloved-and-falsely-maligned-heroic-agent, nine times out of ten they're sock-puppets.
If it's any consolation, there are plenty of people on these boards who've been rooked by scammers, and have gone on to be published for real. No one will look down on you for being hooked. Have a look around - when you feel ready, put your query letter up in the Share Your Work query letter section, and get it critiqued before sending it out again. It couldn't hurt - and there's no charge
wink.gif

-Barbara
 

SuspenseWriter

Back to the Drawing Board

Thanks for the pep talk! My query letter is good--they always ask for a sample of my work when I send it out. I'm also told the novel is a "real page turner," but for some reason, that's as far as it goes. I've read enough stuff out there to recognize that my book is better than a good number of those on shelves in book stores. I suppose I just have to find an agent who recognizes that as well.
I appreciate everyone's support.
 

Elizabeth George's book Write Away