Gardeners of AW, unite

[lorna_w]

Expanded the community garden this year for melons and squash. We've had such critter problems this year! I and a friend put up a fence of 90 foot length or so, banging t-posts into hard desert soil with the aid of water to soften the ground. Though an old gal, I'm still able to swing a sledge. Then we put up chicken wire. Then realized Gambel's quails can walk straight through it, a little like ghosts. Put up bird netting over the chicken wire, problem solved. For about one day before mice appeared. The mice quit eating most garden plants because they ate about a quarter jar of peanut butter per night from the traps. A neighbor said "use cheese and a rubber band" to us (what he did in Vietnam), so we did, and it was magic. Finally started killing mice. By this point, bird netting I'd draped over my remaining tomatoes they hadn't taken down to sticks was scrunching up the plants so it took me a good 45 minutes to disentangle them and re-net them against surviving mice. Based on an hourly wage of $25/hour, I figure it'll take a while for a tomato to not cost me $5 each.

My potatoes are entirely successful, though. I simply took little yellow potatoes I'd gotten for free at a food bank place, let them sprout, planted, and I must've hit the perfect day/temp, for they went wild. Flowers already. I have peppers in too, three kinds of melons, an onion from seed bred for high desert, which is what we are, and a light colored bush bean (not quite wax beans. not quite green beans). Radishes aren't big but are painfully hot already--really have to limit that to fall/winter garden from now on. 90F tomorrow and we won't likely see under that until July 4, when the afternoons get rainy.

 

[ElaineB]

I’ve planted 10 of a dozen shrubs this month. Each year this gets harder (funny how aging works). Probably only the gray dogwood to go since the sassafras looks dead in the pot. Hopefully we can get a replacement. We’ve had hard luck with sassafras. One has died back twice. I call him Lazarus. I should probably count how many trees and shrubs I’ve planted in the five years we’ve been here, but that could be traumatic. A combination of rocky New England soil, compaction from tree cutting, multiple stumps/root systems left over from tree cutting (a past owner), and deer (and occasional moose) and voles just add to the fun. On the rare occasion when I can dig a hole and not find an obstacle, I celebrate. But that’s been about twice, I think. Just pounding in fence posts for the chicken wire caging can be a challenge.

Then the black flies. They are murderous and you can’t work with chicken wire and wear a bug net. At least I can’t. This also seems to be a banner year for ticks. Next year we’ll go back to planting in the fall. And start cutting back. I’m getting too old for this. It’s just been nice to get spring plants that haven’t been growing in pots all summer such that they are entirely rootbound.

But it’s nice to see the land fill with native habitat for birds and bees and butterflies. The birches we started with are twice as tall as me now and look just lovely! We've had spicebush caterpillars on our spice bushes and sassafras, a returning cast of nesting birds, fawns and snapping turtle babies and this year a bunny (which I know will soon be bunnies).

My wife handles the pollinator gardens and raised beds, which have some veggies but mostly seedlings from seeds she collects. I’m the laborer, so digging holes is my thing. I’ve got it down to a good system, finally. Until winter, when storms bring down branches and whole trees to crush my fencing.

I joke we have a fence farm.

 

[mrsmig]

Black flies...

::shivers::

My one encounter with them was years ago, by a stream bed in the Adirondacks. Awful, awful creatures.

 

[lorna_w]

I've read black flies can exsanguinate a cow. Betcha a writer is much easier.

 

[SWest]

Just enough rain that I don't have to carry water today.

But was there enough that I can continue the archeological dig to uncover the front walk? There are two giant catsears that really need moving into the back yard...

 

[mrsmig]

We're supposed to get rain here later in the day. Fingers are crossed.

I took my remaining tomato plants over to the town plant swap today. My lord, they were overjoyed with tomatoes. Most had been planted in red Solo cups and were root-bound and leggy, but I was surprised at the variety. I might have been tempted to take a few if I had even a few feet to spare in my garden. Nothing else looked worth taking or interested me, so I left empty-handed, but that's okay.

I still have zinnia and bee balm to direct-sow, and I'd like to sow more stock as well, Problem is, I'm out of space and nearly out of containers. (The neighbor sold her big rubber tub while I was out of town, darn it.) I could buy more pots, I guess, but then I'd have to figure out where to put them. I'm moving most of the house plants onto the deck next week, for their summer vacation, so I won't have much space there, and if I just put stuff in the yard, I fear the deer will munch it whether they like it or not.

My late father-in-law's old wheelbarrow is out behind our shed, and I'd really like to bring it out and plant some flowers in it. The pan has some big rust holes in it, but I could fill it with a collection of planted containers. I've got a few terra-cotta pots of different sizes, shapes and heights that might look really pretty in there. But again, I'd have to find a spot for it where the deer can't get at it, or plant something they won't eat. Hmmm...

By the way, the grilled garlic scapes were DELICIOUS. My husband didn't care for them, but that left more for me.

 

[Friendly Frog]

So I had to put traps on my outside balcony. Again. I loathe it has come to this, I had hoped three times were enough, but that rodent pushed me too far this time.

It, and its predecessors, sure know to escalate like whoah. (Sometimes I'm thinking of them as reincarnations, rather than predecessors, because dang, we seem to get caught in this unending circle of stolen seeds, plowed planters, chewed holes and traps. I doubt it has done well for my karma, but dang, what's a human to do?)

So I have mentioned having a Balcony Bandit here before, a mouse that climbs the wall to my upper balcony, takes up residence and ends up wrecking stuff. Happened now like four times already. The one before ate several iris bulbs before chewing a hole in the water-resistant roofing and ended up flooding downstairs regularly during rains until we found and plugged it. This one dug up my pots for the bone marrow feedings, plowed through every freshly-planted pot, taunted me, and eventually started keeping me up at 2.30 AM by crawling in my walls.

Yeah.

I could, you know, actually live with losing some of the seeds, and having to resow occassionally, and the nightly plowing of pots. My fault for not Plantcatrazing the containers right away. If you're aiming for a wildlife garden, you have to expect the wildlife not always treating your garden the way you like or expected. Sure, I grump about it, but further than distributing eco-friendly snail-pellets, I never needed to go. Except for that danged Balcony Bandit.

Heck, I even decided against trapping when it sat at my window, on top of my iris pots, watching me inside my room and didn't even run away when I tapped on the window like two fingers away from its nose. (Frankly at that point I wondered whether it had toxoplasmosis and then I really rather had nothing to do with it. Not because I was getting supersticious this was all rather starting to look like a cheap monster movie where of course the person deciding to turn the table on the supernatural monster gets eaten horribly.)

Then the weekend things turned ugly.

So right before the weekend I had sowed the last few containers with a few experiments with mediterranean plants which seeds I had collected myself. I had vitex, which is a bush with lovely blue flowers (and an absolute bee magnet), and asphodèle which has stunning white starry flowers. I also had a stash of store-bought old phacelia seeds that I wanted to see if they still had sprouting power. Fourth was a dandelion experiment because dad's animals love them. I didn't Plantcatraz. I was lazy, tired, didn't have the right size of covering for the longer seeds trays and frankly didn't think the mediterranean seeds would be as appealing as the acorns previous balcony bandits have raided.

The next day it had left a string of seed husks in the vitex container, dug a haphazard hole in the asphodèle planter and the dandelions and plowed the phacelia tray. I still have vitex and phacelia seeds left, but the asphodèle was all that I had and the seeds are too tiny to check if there are any left. Same with the dandelions. So much for my experiments.

Then the next day when I went to bed, I can see it sitting on the vitex container giving it the once over. I give it the Evil Eye and vow to resow what I can in Plantcatraz. I go to bed and suddenly at 2 AM there is all this scratching and crawling in the wall. All along the window sill and up the windows, likely in the hollow spaces between wooden window frame and stone walls. Old house. Lots of nooks and crannies. And mice don't need a lot of space.

I thumb the walls like an surly downstairs neighbour when the apartment upstairs is having a party and when it goes silent I go back to bed. Then I head a slight thump outside and then the crawling starts again in the other window.

Dude. Enough. I can take to lose a few seeds experiments, but losing sleep while that rodent wreaks destruction to my house? Nopenopenopitynope.

Caught the bugger after two tries and I don't even feel good about it! Luckily the rains will hold off for a few days more while I check for holes in the roofing. Again. Only this time there's wooding tiling and a truckload of massive pots of my dad's littering the balcony. Chances are, if it bit through the roofing again, I won't notice until the water drops fall from the downstairs ceiling. *sigh*

I wonder how long I have until Bandit Five turns up. At least I have now cut off the ivy that reached up to the balcony so it won't have unimpeded highway, but still, not holding my breath.

 

[SWest]

Dry, dry, dry.

I ended up moving 5-6 catsear clumps...it was nearly impossible to make holes for them in the dry, dry, dry sod roots, but now they're ringing one of the Medlar trees and within reach of the hose, so they don't look half bad.

Have a potential contact for free wood chips locally, and a youngster is interested in taking my old heavy garden hose...all for the Free Stuff Where I Live group!

 

[lorna_w]

92F Today (in Celsius, that's "pretty hot.") Will be 90 for the coming 10 days with zero rain. Watered twice. With friends ill and on holiday, I'm taking care of four gardens.

My tomatoes right outside my door are on a picnic table (rabbits will eat the flowers, and javelina might eat the picnic table on a hungry day, so keeping them up, but also netted against birds, is a wise idea.) It probably weighs 200 pounds between table and soil and water. I've been dragging it an inch or two (aka 3-4 cm) per day into an area where the sun will quit hitting it at 1:30. Thus, I still have a chance of tomatoes pollinating. And I get some minor weightlifting in as well.

 

[Brigid Barry]

I haven't said anything because I have such a black thumb that I was sure I would jinx it, but I started my San Marzano, Roma, and Cherry tomatoes indoors, along with Golden Acre cabbage, high pie pumpkin, and seeds from a spaghetti squash we ate, and African Giant Marigolds. I had excellent germination rates for most of them (even the San Marzanos, which are apparently difficult).

We have had some late frosts (including one this morning) and I have (im)patiently waited to plant outside. The cabbage and squash have gone outside to harden off and I've had a fan on the tomatoes because it's been too chilly to put them out in the mornings. My compost pile was tilled (thank goodness for my new cultivator!) and raked for the tomatoes and squash and the old garden bed in the front yard (and the recipient of the compost pile last time I moved it) will be the home for the cabbage. My yard is trash so I'll be planting mint alongside the cabbage.

Read in my book last night that one of the weeds I've been battling, Red Pigweed, supposedly makes radishes happy.

Over the last few months I've realized that I just don't understand plants.

 

[mrsmig]

Just make sure that your mint are contained in some way. They will truly take over your garden, given the chance.

 

[SWest]

Eat the Amaranths!

 

[ElaineB]

Plantcatraz

What, pray tell, is this? Barbed wire around the pot? Inquiring minds...

 

[Friendly Frog]

No, no barbed wire, I'd lose so many clothes and skin and the mice would never notice.

Plantcatraz is a planter or tray with a layer of metal wirefence wrapped over the top and folded well over the sides. The holes are less than 1 cm big, making it too small for a mouse to get through.

Oddly, it's only on the balcony we have to Plantcatraz seeds and seedlings. No mouse ever plows the pots on ground level. And the squirrel just caches walnuts in them.

 

[Daniel.J.Nickolas]

Hey all, I was hoping I might post an inquiry to the collective mind of this thread.

I’m moving into a new space soon, a space that actually has room for gardening! I’m a houseplant person, so I’m not brand new to plant care, but I have never tried gardening (I do keep rosemary as a houseplant, but I don’t think that counts). I was curious, what less-common* vegetables have you all found to be beginner friendly?

*Again, I’ve never gardened, so when I say “less common”, I essentially mean other than tomatoes and zucchini.

I know geographical location and season are important, but I’m really only asking generally, just to get some ideas.

 

[mrsmig]

Hey all, I was hoping I might post an inquiry to the collective mind of this thread.

I’m moving into a new space soon, a space that actually has room for gardening! I’m a houseplant person, so I’m not brand new to plant care, but I have never tried gardening (I do keep rosemary as a houseplant, but I don’t think that counts). I was curious, what less-common* vegetables have you all found to be beginner friendly?

*Again, I’ve never gardened, so when I say “less common”, I essentially mean other than tomatoes and zucchini.

I know geographical location and season are important, but I’m really only asking generally, just to get some ideas.

Hi, and welcome to the thread!

Talk to us a bit about your potential garden plot. How much sun does it get? How wet/dry is it? Are you planning on container gardening, or are you going to plant in-ground? And finally, what's your growing zone? (If you don't know the answer to that last question, you can plug in your zip code on this map to find out.)

 

[Brigid Barry]

Hey all, I was hoping I might post an inquiry to the collective mind of this thread.

I’m moving into a new space soon, a space that actually has room for gardening! I’m a houseplant person, so I’m not brand new to plant care, but I have never tried gardening (I do keep rosemary as a houseplant, but I don’t think that counts). I was curious, what less-common* vegetables have you all found to be beginner friendly?

*Again, I’ve never gardened, so when I say “less common”, I essentially mean other than tomatoes and zucchini.

I know geographical location and season are important, but I’m really only asking generally, just to get some ideas.

In addition to MrsMig's excellent questions, are you looking for ornamental (daylilies and rugs roses) or edible gardening? If you want to grow something edible, what do you like to eat?

Marigolds are forgiving, easy to grow, and make a great companion plant in the vegetable garden.

 

[SWest]

Hey all, I was hoping I might post an inquiry to the collective mind of this thread.

I’m moving into a new space soon, a space that actually has room for gardening! I’m a houseplant person, so I’m not brand new to plant care, but I have never tried gardening (I do keep rosemary as a houseplant, but I don’t think that counts). I was curious, what less-common* vegetables have you all found to be beginner friendly?

*Again, I’ve never gardened, so when I say “less common”, I essentially mean other than tomatoes and zucchini.

I know geographical location and season are important, but I’m really only asking generally, just to get some ideas.

PNW is mostly USDA growing zone 8? Knowing your hardiness zone is one key to enjoying success with outdoor plants. So is knowing how much sun you get at what parts of the yard at what parts of the day...leafy green and perennial stuff can do with 6 hours or less of sun, fruiting and annual stuff prefers more than 6 hours of direct daily sun. Spend a lot of time this season observing the property...where is the sun? Where is the shade (Hostas are edible and love shade)? Where is there sand? Clay? Low points that hold water? Higher-drier spots (that would support Rosemary, Lavender, etc.)? What is the annual/seasonal rainfall like?

Ground Cherries should do very well, but the larger Cape Gooseberries are also a likely possibility up there. Related to tomatoes, but sweet/tart like grapes. Amaranths are also a possibility if you like spinach-y greens and pseudo-grains that self-seed annually...

This is a permaculturist in the Portland area you might like to follow: https://www.youtube.com/@ParkrosePermaculture/videos

 

[Daniel.J.Nickolas]

Hi, and welcome to the thread!

Talk to us a bit about your potential garden plot. How much sun does it get? How wet/dry is it? Are you planning on container gardening, or are you going to plant in-ground? And finally, what's your growing zone?

Thank you for the welcome!

As SWest noted, I will be in Zone 8 (Zone 8b, according to the USDA Map).

The gardening plot gets a lot of midday sun, but is shaded in the mornings and late afternoons. I’m planning on doing in-ground planting, though I’m not at all opposed to some container planting (currently, I’m growing a Norway Spruce sapling in a container, and that whole process has been rather fun!). I haven’t moved yet, so I’m not sure what the soil composition looks like, though soil in the PNW tends to have a high level of clay. But I’m happy to add soil / soil additives if necessary.

For now, I only want to plant vegetables and perhaps other edibles. I love all vegetables, so I’m willing to grow anything that I can eat, and that will be a bit more forgiving toward a beginner. If there are some ornamental perennials that come highly recommended, or that are good to have in vegetable gardens in general, that would also be great; I’d like to avoid ornamental annuals for now.

 

[Friendly Frog]

I’m moving into a new space soon, a space that actually has room for gardening! I’m a houseplant person, so I’m not brand new to plant care, but I have never tried gardening (I do keep rosemary as a houseplant, but I don’t think that counts). I was curious, what less-common* vegetables have you all found to be beginner friendly?

As someone who almost grows no crops at all, I've always felt that the less-common vegetables were usually the harder ones, because otherwise they would be common too. At least, that is my amateur reading.

I'd say potatoes, because that's all I've ever tried and you can do this easily in pots which might be best for a new and unknown garden. When you're just starting out one usually has a poor idea what their soil and climate can grow. If your new garden has never been used for growing vegetables and you have no experience, it might be one very steep learning curve, even with easy-to-grow plants. It will make it even harder to work out why things fail and that can be very discouraging. EDIT: and it will take so much longer to prep for planting.

 

[lorna_w]

Hey all, I was hoping I might post an inquiry to the collective mind of this thread.

I’m moving into a new space soon, a space that actually has room for gardening! I’m a houseplant person, so I’m not brand new to plant care, but I have never tried gardening (I do keep rosemary as a houseplant, but I don’t think that counts). I was curious, what less-common* vegetables have you all found to be beginner friendly?

*Again, I’ve never gardened, so when I say “less common”, I essentially mean other than tomatoes and zucchini.

I know geographical location and season are important, but I’m really only asking generally, just to get some ideas.

Ground cherries, which also re-seed in place like crazy. (they're a distant tomato cousin. Fun to eat for kids and kidlike adults because of the whole "peeling off the calyx" thing.) If you have loose, sandy soil, scorzonera, which Jefferson grew. (also good in a deep pot, and you harvest by dumping out the whole thing, as the thinner roots can break easily when you fork them out of ground.) Get someone to give you some scarlet runner beans to plant, too, while we're talking about Jefferson. They all originated in his garden, gardeners believe, so handing them from person to person is an interesting bit of cultural continuity. Not great for eating, but lovely blooms. Speaking of tomato relatives and blooms, tomatillos. Make green salsa (or purple salsa, if you buy purple seeds). I eat them like apples. Another benefit is that the pollinators love their (not particularly showy) flowers. I had major hummingbird battles over them all the time. Celeriac is another interesting plant.

I like different varieties of plants too. Ping Tung eggplant is one. I love Suyo long cucumbers. They look different than what you'll likely find in the grocery store for eggplants and cukes and both those varieties have great taste.

PNW should be perfect for currants. I like the white ones. (The red ones, the birds will likely beat you to). Small perennial bushes. If you want double duty of beauty and food, blueberries turn a beautiful fall shade.

If you like mushrooms of a certain type, find a rotting log and buy some mushroom spoor.

And if you don't get temps under 20, garden all year. Radishes, beets, and carrots planted September 1 will taste amazing all winter long. Spinach and lettuce lives through 10-15F easily. Dinosaur/lacinato kale is so tasty and sweet in the winter. yum.

 

[SWest]

...The gardening plot gets a lot of midday sun, but is shaded in the mornings and late afternoons. ...

Very challenging to start, but reliable once established: Turkish Rocket, Good King Henry, Nine star Broccoli (keep flower heads removed to force perennial habit, may need winter protection), Skirret (eat the tubers like potato)

Easier to establish: French Sorrel, Red-Vein Sorrel, Plantain (Broad and Narrow leaf), Dandelions (various), Chicory (various), Catsear, Asparagus (need 2-3 years to start bearing edible stalks. likes good sun), Walking Onions, Garlic Chives, various herbs (prefer more sun and more drainage), Sunchokes (eat the roots like potato - high levels of inulin), Nasturtiums,

Easy to establish, but can die in winter (re-work with cuttings indoors overwinter for best results): Tree Collards

Annuals that can behave like perennials when some plants are left to go to seed: Amaranths, Kale, Swiss Chard, various lettuces & mustards

 

[mrsmig]

Given that you haven't moved in yet, and it's nearly June, it might be better to plant in containers first, and then break ground on an actual garden bed in the fall so it has time to percolate until next spring. Containers will also allow you to shift your crops around to find the best spot to dig your garden bed for next year.

As far as what vegetables to grow, I'd suggest you grow what you like to eat. No point in growing okra or eggplant if you don't like it! Another thing to factor in is whether you plan to direct-sow seeds, or purchase seedlings. If it's the latter, much depends on what will be available at your local garden store, and its condition. (For example, tomato seedlings have been available for purchase in my zone - 7a - since late April, and what's left is looking pretty rootbound and spindly now.) If you're going to direct-sow, be sure to check the seed packet for the length of time until harvest. Tomatoes in particular have a long maturation period, so if you don't direct-sow until June, you might not see much of a harvest before your first frost.

Beans are always dependable, and many of the bush varieties will happily grow in containers. Same with peppers, hot or sweet. Basil is super-dependable, and a great cut-and-come-again crop. Lettuce and other greens are good in containers, too, and although they're generally best planted in cooler weather, some varieties won't bolt to seed so quickly if they've got a little shade in the hottest part of the day. Cucumbers will grow in containers, too, but you'll need to give the vines something to climb, so the fruit isn't laying on the ground where critters can get at it.

Whatever you decide to do, let us know so we can share your fun. I always enjoy hearing about others' gardens.

 

[Daniel.J.Nickolas]

If your new garden has never been used for growing vegetables and you have no experience, it might be one very steep learning curve, even with easy-to-grow plants. It will make it even harder to work out why things fail and that can be very discouraging.

Indeed. This is why I wanted to get some suggestions from people who’ve done this before, about plants that are more forgiving for beginners. No sense in accidentally making this more challenging than it needs to be.

I probably implied in my OP that I didn’t want to grow “common” veggies, which wasn’t my intention. I was just trying to diversify the responses I’d get.

PNW should be perfect for currants.

And if you don't get temps under 20, garden all year. Radishes, beets, and carrots planted September 1 will taste amazing all winter long.

Currants, interesting. I wouldn’t have ever thought to try those, but I’m definitely going to look more into currants.

The PNW has mostly mild winters, and I do love root veggies.

Given that you haven't moved in yet, and it's nearly June, it might be better to plant in containers first, and then break ground on an actual garden bed in the fall so it has time to percolate until next spring. Containers will also allow you to shift your crops around to find the best spot to dig your garden bed for next year.

Whatever you decide to do, let us know so we can share your fun. I always enjoy hearing about others' gardens.

I had a feeling it was getting too late in the year to start; but I love the idea of moving the containers around to see where the plants are happiest.

And yes, I will definitely check-in with some updates.

And thanks everyone for the suggestions so far; there’s a lot of options to consider, which is exactly what I was hoping to get.

 

[Friendly Frog]

I've found a bumblebee nest! Must be doing something good at least.
Dad came home from a long trip and doesn't not entirely approve of my pruning while he was away. (Surprise there! )

Sorry dad, opportunity was too good, the walnut was starting to throw too much shade. I'll be interested in seeing if you can catch all I pruned in your absense but I'm betting you won't discover them all!

I wonder how long I have until Bandit Five turns up. At least I have now cut off the ivy that reached up to the balcony so it won't have unimpeded highway, but still, not holding my breath.

So... turned out it was faster than I imagined. And not just Bandit Five, but MORE.

I thought I heard something squeak on Thursday and squeaking is suspicous (half the garden is squeaking, I kind of wish the owls came for a vist but I haven't heard them in weeks.) So at dusk I put the trap on the one planter with the dandelions I hadn't secured.

A while later I pass by my room and see the trap has sprung but nothing in it. I set it again, go about my business again and just as I'm falling asleep I hear the 'snap'. Friday morning, imagine my surprise at finding TWO dead mice, I guess the first take knocked the mouse away and I simply didn't see it in the dark. So Bandit Five and Six didn't get to do any damage, except for grazing the phacelia where it was sprouting through the Plantcatraz cover. Huh, that's a new one, have to admit.

Then this morning, Bandit Seven meets the trap, sorry but not sorry. How many of you ARE there? Only Six was on the smallishi side and Five and Four were kinda pretty big mice, what the [expletive] are they all doing on a small balcony when there's a massive garden just below?!

So, I'll be trapping a few days more. It least no one is knocking about in my windows, although I stil haven't found how they got it.