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Ellora's Cave Publishing, Inc.

ShaunHorton

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This may be just my shaky grasp on the legal system speaking, but in what way is anything Dear Author wrote libellous? They were working with information reported to them and, as far as I can see, backed up each statement they made with a link to the source of that information.

Or am I misunderstanding something? It just seems very odd to me that Ellora's Cave would take legal action against a third party rather than one of their authors. Not that I believe their authors have done anything wrong either.

Aiming for the deepest pockets possible and she's actually delusional enough to believe she can win?
 

Anna_Hedley

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That's... Mind-boggling. Won't she be liable for Dear Author's legal costs if Dear Author wins?
 

Bubastes

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That's... Mind-boggling. Won't she be liable for Dear Author's legal costs if Dear Author wins?

Not necessarily. The US does not have a "loser automatically pays" system.

My guess: EC mainly wants DA to take down that blog post and to stop blogging about EC in the future. I suspect that's more important to them than the money damages they're seeking.
 
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JennTX

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No, actually. I updated my post to cover this. Short version: she leased.

http://deirdre.net/elloras-cave-sues-dear-author/

Hmm, that's interesting.

I wonder if Jane simply reporting what Engler posted on her facebook is defamatory. There was nothing from Engler's post that said she was leasing vs. buying.

I think this was a really dumb move by Tina Engler. I assume this lawsuit require that she reveal her accounting?
 

EvolvingK

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As one of my husband's co-workers said yesterday: On a scale of one to even, I just can't.

Let me tell you how much I wish I could go back in time right now. /ashamed.
 

Redbear1158

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Hmm, that's interesting.

I wonder if Jane simply reporting what Engler posted on her facebook is defamatory. There was nothing from Engler's post that said she was leasing vs. buying.

I think this was a really dumb move by Tina Engler. I assume this lawsuit require that she reveal her accounting?


As part of the claim is that EC's being 'falsely' accused of not paying staff and royalties, yeah, they'll have to open their books to the court to prove they have paid everyone what they were really owed.

After their ducking out of court last time:

http://dearauthor.com/features/indu...s-elloras-cave-gets-the-smackdown-from-judge/

You have to wonder what she thinks will happen if/when the books show the truth (or if she thinks any 'book cooking' would be missed by all the eyes that want to see them ...)
 

Deirdre

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Not necessarily. The US does not have a "loser automatically pays" system.

My guess: EC mainly wants DA to take down that blog post and to stop blogging about EC in the future. I suspect that's more important to them than the money damages they're seeking.

That could fall under a SLAPP case.

Ohio doesn't have anti-SLAPP laws, but California does. (I say this because Jaid is partly suing over things where Ohio doesn't seem to be the correct venue, though IANAL. Jaid lives in California.)

Popehat has a post about SLAPP suits: http://www.popehat.com/2012/06/07/why-yes-i-am-into-slapping/
 

Deirdre

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You have to wonder what she thinks will happen if/when the books show the truth (or if she thinks any 'book cooking' would be missed by all the eyes that want to see them ...)

As one of those people who automatically wants to think it's all true (both sides, with all their contradictions), one thing that's occurred to me is that perhaps Jaid doesn't know as much as she thinks she does about the actual operations.

Not saying that's the case, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
 

Filigree

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Streisand Effect.

I can't go into details about how I know this, but this definitely falls under the category of a SLAPP suit.

Jane needs to contact Popehat RIGHT NOW if she doesn't already have counsel.

And then someone here maybe needs to contact Publisher's Weekly.
 

VoireyLinger

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Ohio doesn't have anti-SLAPP laws, but California does. (I say this because Jaid is partly suing over things where Ohio doesn't seem to be the correct venue, though IANAL. Jaid lives in California.)
But the lawsuit wasn't filed by Tina/Jaid. It was filed by the business, Ellora's Cave, which is based out of Akron, Ohio. The nature of the suit is claiming damage to the company, not the owner, therefore, yes, the suit has to happen in Ohio.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 

VoireyLinger

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Streisand Effect.

I can't go into details about how I know this, but this definitely falls under the category of a SLAPP suit.

Jane needs to contact Popehat RIGHT NOW if she doesn't already have counsel.

And then someone here maybe needs to contact Publisher's Weekly.
She's already been directed to Popehat and is seeking Ohio council, and I believe I saw a PW tweet earlier. I expect there will be a story in the site tomorrow.
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/
 

ULTRAGOTHA

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Scroll through half of Ken White's posts at Popehat to read about a depressing number of SLAPP lawsuits and how they often backfire in the plaintiff in such a Barbara Streisand way.

Here's to Dear Author. Good Luck!!
 

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Dear Author may not have written anything defamatory, but that doesn't mean she can't be accused of it. Legal action is often used as a pressure tactic to make something happen. As a law professor once told me, you can always sue.

Sure... you can always sue but if it's a frivolous suit you risk facing sanctions. ;^)

Problem is... CA is really funky when it comes to laws (especially contracts) and business. So it's hard to say how certain things will hold up and why she chose to go this route and not another. I went to law school in NY. Basically most of my classes (when they chose to cover CA law) would say "this is how everyone else does it... and then there's California".

ETA: This is what I get for replying to a post before getting to the end of the thread. Filing in Ohio really makes this interesting. I wonder if the choice of venue is done on purpose. You have a place that won't have as large of a body of law for precedence for something like this.

Meanwhile, can someone pass the popcorn? I'm starving.
 
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madmumbler

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Would also LOVE to know how many authors volunteer to send in their personal horror stories about EC to DA to help her with her defense.

Methinks EC is reeeeaaaallllyyy going to regret having swatted this hornet's nest with a stick.
 

frimble3

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But the lawsuit wasn't filed by Tina/Jaid. It was filed by the business, Ellora's Cave, which is based out of Akron, Ohio. The nature of the suit is claiming damage to the company, not the owner, therefore, yes, the suit has to happen in Ohio.
Akron, Ohio, eh? The odds on getting the judge from the Brashears case, or one who at least knows that judge, goes up! (My interest in that particular judge is that she's already apparently annoyed about the lack of disclosure of documents.)
 

Deirdre

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But the lawsuit wasn't filed by Tina/Jaid. It was filed by the business, Ellora's Cave, which is based out of Akron, Ohio. The nature of the suit is claiming damage to the company, not the owner, therefore, yes, the suit has to happen in Ohio.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

The claims about the house are personal and California-based and likely not actionable in Ohio. Also, IMHO, not defamatory.
 
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Deirdre

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Streisand Effect.

I can't go into details about how I know this, but this definitely falls under the category of a SLAPP suit.

Jane needs to contact Popehat RIGHT NOW if she doesn't already have counsel.

And then someone here maybe needs to contact Publisher's Weekly.

Huh. Well, I look forward to seeing what will happen. I also look forward to the slew of state court equivalent of amicus briefs from authors, editors, cover designers, et al, who say they've not been paid.

Publishers Weekly has already tweeted about it.

S&M book obsessions will no longer review EC titles.
http://twitter.com/SMs_Obsessions/status/515846553341530112
 

MandyHarbin

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Woke up to this lunacy. Is EC really putting the blame on the problems of their multimillion dollar publishing company on the posts of one blogger from a couple of weeks ago? Sorry, but the communication and statement problems have been going on for a while. Still no official word on the management issues (those two quitting) and I still haven't gotten my check this month. Not entirely sure when I got my last one. :Shrug: (But it was sometime this summer). I'd prefer EC put this amount of effort into rallying behind their authors, rather than trying to deny someone their First Amendment right.
 

Ann_Mayburn

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I just...I mean really you have nothing better to....wow.

My guess: EC mainly wants DA to take down that blog post and to stop blogging about EC in the future. I suspect that's more important to them than the money damages they're seeking.

And intimidate future bloggers/whoever from saying/writing anything bad about them, truth or not, for fear of lawsuit.
 

shameless

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Look at all the press the lawsuit is generating... Much cheaper than paying for publicity. Perhaps in her little mind, she's thinking the lawsuit will help "save" her crumbling business??

Will be interesting to watch all this unfold. My heart goes out to EC authors!!

:popcorn: