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Deextinction

cmhbob

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The New Yorker headline proclaims "The Dire Wolf is back." It's somewhat more complicated than that. but the very long article is fascinating to read.

"We have to figure out how to build a trillion-piece puzzle while working with pieces that were left outside during a hurricane, using the picture of a slightly different puzzle on the top of the box, and the contents of more than a hundred and fifty thousand different puzzles inside."

Is the resulting animal actually a dire wolf, or a gray wolf that looks like a dire wolf?

Archived link: https://archive.ph/dTePp
 

CMBright

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What's in a name? A dire wolf by... you know the rest. Does it matter if it isn't quite a dire wolf or an iron age hog to name a couple, if it is one for all practical purposes?
 

Friendly Frog

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I wish that sort of scientist would deextinct animals that still had a habitat to go into. Dire wolves don't. Mammoths don't. The thylacine might... But right now they're just condemning all those animals to a life behind bars as a curiosity or a novelty more than anything else.

But honestly, deextinct me the gastric-brooding frog! If we could work out how it managed to keep his eggs from getting killed in his stomach acid! We might get new stomach medication out of it. And I daresay the habitat is still present.


...and I'll bite anyone who dares to say to my face that the gastric-brooding frog is any less cool than a dire wolf. Try me.
 

Chris P

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I'm on the train and didn't read the article, but it sounds like what they are doing with the mammoth: using genome editing to change an Asian elephant into something that looks like a mammoth, thinking it will occupy the same niche in the Arctic that mammoths did.

I gave a presentation to a small group last summer on the "mammophant," and asked if a hairless more upright chimp would therefore be human? Even if they sequenced an entire mammoth genome a la Jurassic Park and filled in any missing bits with elephant DNA, this genome would be all mammoths and none at the same time, like any "reference genome." This will get us straight back into the "what makes a species?" discussion that's been going on literally since Aristotle.

I don't have answers, and am content for now to admire the question.
 

Bitterboots

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So funny, I'm in Cape Town and I heard it on our local talk radio today. The presenter was commenting that she was a huge GofT fan and there was a character who had dire wolves in it and she shared a link to the three puppies.

I did wonder how far we are from Jurassic Park. These pups aren't entirely dire wolves, having mixed DNA with modern wolves but it does open a can of worms about what could be brought back with the same technology.
 

Brigid Barry

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Am I the only person asking WHY do this? Those animals all went extinct at the end of the ice age and we have a dramatically different and much warmer climate than we did then. They were adapted to a cold climate and iirc from my PBS Eons watching, being large is an evolutionary advantage in cold climates.

Not to mention the incredibly complex social structures. It's like they never read Michael Crichton's Lost World.
 

CMBright

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I do. I suspect the focus on "exotics" are the fact that they are well known and the money is on animals like mammoths, dire wolves, iron age pigs and similar animals. Speculation on my part, of course.

But if we can effectively bring back those animals, we can do the same with any known species that went extinct in, say, the last hundred years. Or the last decade. It would be even easier for species that had genetic samples taken before they went extinct. Columbian mammoths had a range farther south than the better known wooly mammoths and might do well north of their original range.

Bringing back species is not the same as having sufficient ecosystems to release the specimines into. There is also the question of overcoming genetic bottleneck from releasing specimins that are too close genetically. But as a first step, it is amazing to see scientists effectively recreating extinct animal species.
 

Woollybear

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As a retired scientist and geneticist, I can almost guarantee the dire wolf and woolly mammoth targets boil down to funding.

So, this advance is a sort of proof-of-concept, like Dolly the sheep. Before Dolly, back in the late eighties, "we" cloned frogs. People thought mammals would be too difficult, too complex, but we got there and the ability to clone mammals, IIRC, pointed to abilities to create new therapeutics. Cancer treatments and such. Money.

It was less that anyone wanted a cloned sheep and more that it was a proof of concept.

So while it's true that the DNA in a fossilized dire wolf bone is far too degraded (for our current tech) to simply clone, the sequence of that DNA can be stitched together in silico and analyzed alongside grey wolf DNA (etc) to gain insight into evolutionary changes, genetic bases for adaptation to life thousands of years ago, and so on. From there, the possibility of engineering something similar to a dire wolf is possible.

CRISPr came along about a decade ago and opened new doors to modifying genomes.

The advance reported here could be less about any need for dire wolves, and more about development toward additional applications. If/when we can reliably use CRISPr in applications like this one, we might be able to create better pollinators, more drought tolerant or fire resistant plants, animals with new capabilities (pandas that reproduce more easily, apex predators able to get by on less acreage, whatever).

And, you know, woolly mammoths, which are sexier than fire-resistant palm trees and more likely to get investors to open their wallets. Crichton used this idea as well.

We've changed Earth* and are barreling toward 2 degrees then 3 degrees warming. We all need to stop with the plastics and petroleum. We need to ask less of Earth, which to me means lowering our reproductive rate. If we made those kind of choices, then Earth could support us and the biodiversity we evolved alongside.

But people don't want to hear this, and the idea of resurrecting extinct megafauna excites enough investors that engineering Earth (instead of living sustainably on it) seems to be the path we're choosing instead.

I think this is why they went with Dire Wolves. Money, and a general trajectory toward some intentional reshaping of our home.

*not to mention all the many thousands of satellites and space debris and now we want to reshape Mars and so on and so forth as well because that should work out real well /sarcasm

p.s. this is not a particularly well thought-out post but is a basic response of capitalistic pragmatism to the question "why dire wolves." The answer is the flip of "why don't we cure disease that only impacts one in a billion people." The answer is money.
 

bunny hugger

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We should only even attempt to de-extinct a species after de-extincting the natural environment in which they can live and thrive. The way the media have been uncritically groveling around this press release is frankly disgusting.
 

Pterofan

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Maybe they plan to build a park where the dire wolves can hunt the mammoths. Then film it as a series on Animal Planet to get funding for other experiments.

Which will be fine until a billionaire donor buys the chance to hunt a mammoth, only he and his party get attacked and eaten by the dire wolves. And some writers think ideas are hard to come by.
 

Unimportant

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Seems people are disputing that they are actually dire wolves at all.
Indeed.

The extinct dire wolf and the existing grey wolf did share a common ancestor -- over five million years ago. The grey wolf did not descend from the dire wolf. Dire wolves are a different genus altogether from wolves.

And this company's newly created 'dire wolf' is actually the result of grey wolf DNA with a few dire wolf genes tossed in:
So what Colossal Biosciences have produced is a gray wolf with dire wolf-like characteristics – this is not a de-extincted dire wolf, rather it’s a “hybrid”. And importantly, it’s what they think are the important dire wolf like characteristics. Dire wolves diverged from gray wolves anywhere between 2.5 to 6 million years ago. It’s in a completely different genus to gray wolves. Colossal compared the genomes of the dire wolf and the gray wolf, and from about 19,000 genes, they determined that 20 changes in 14 genes gave them a dire wolf.

If I took an orangutan and replaced a handful of its genes with human genes, I would not get Donald Tru-- oh. Wait. Maybe I would.
 

RedRajah

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It's "Make Wolf Great Again" in that it rests on a myth of what a dire wolf really is, is mostly misleading, is beloved of billionaires, and... well, is very white.
Hopefully, the wolves' genetics are better than the Hapsburg dynasty...
 

ironmikezero

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In terms of oversimplification, for now follow the money trail . . . (there always is one).

But don't worry, at some point, our AI overlords (who will have been peripherally involved all along) will subtly encroach, via mission-creep, upon subliminal--yet total--control of any & all genetic engineering projects and proceed according to further justifications based upon the purity of machine logic.

See? There's nothing to be concerned with, folks.
 
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jtthwe

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From a optimistic perspective the idea of bringing back species that have been lost in time is interesting and wonderful. Being able to preserve biodiversity.

My pessimistic mind then went that "Oh great, humanity would kill them again after bringing them back."
 
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