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Deep River Books (formerly VMI Publishers) / Virtue Ministries, Inc.

editing_for_authors
Editing for authors: because every writer needs a good editor.

vstrauss

Re: VMI publishers

It's a "partnership" (i.e., vanity) publisher. It requires authors to buy a large number of finished books.

- Victoria
 

Dancre

Re: VMI publishers

Thanks, Victoria. I've been doing a bit of research myself. It seems these folks claim they can get the books into major books stores.

VMI's marketing partnerships represent over 50 years of marketing, sales, and distribution experience. Your book will be introduced to over 900 of the largest independent Christian retailers. Your book will also be exposed to the large Christian and secular retail chains such as Barnes & Noble, Family Christian Stores, The Parable Group, Borders, etc. In addition, your book will be introduced to the major Internet sites such as Amazon.com. We will also feature your book on the VMI website, and advertise your book through industry and trade catalogs.

well, i called major bookstores and they don't stock any of their books. can you please add these folks to your list on writer beward?

i'm also planning on sending dave a message too.
thanks
 

vstrauss

Re: VMI publishers

They're added.

Note how carefully worded the paragraph you quoted is...they "introduce" and "expose" the book to retailers. They don't ever say it will be carried. This is like making a book "available" in bookstores--i.e., it doesn't mean what an inexperienced writer thinks it means.

- Victoria
 

MadScientistMatt

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Here we have an example of how a publisher may hide their fees.

Not to mention another example of a scammer who hides behind religion by targeting the Christian market and implying to be run on Christian principles. Apparently they have a slightly different interpretation of "Thou shalt not steal" and "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
 

Ray's Dog

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Virtue Ministries Incorporated

Does anyone have any poop on this publisher? It's called VMI, Virtue Ministries Incorporated and is out of Oregon. Someone I know has been offered a contract by them. They require that she buy the first thousand books and sell them herself. According to them, it costs $20,000 to launch a new book and they work in a partnership with the author to promote the book...but she has to sell them out her trunk. What kind of promotion is that? Where is their risk? They do not pay any advance; she pays, from what I can figure, around $10,000 to get published. They handle the printing, the cover, the ISBN and legal stuff.

She's thrilled and I sure don't want to rain on her parade, but it looks to me like the deluge is going to come after these people get their hands on her money. Am I missing something here?
 

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James D. Macdonald said:
That's all you need to know.

It's a vanity press. Move along.

That's what I figured. Now if we can just convince her that this is NOT a good deal. She's such a good soul. I hate to see her get taken.

Thanks for your help.
 

Bleak House Books

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Ray's Dog said:
That's what I figured. Now if we can just convince her that this is NOT a good deal. She's such a good soul. I hate to see her get taken.

Thanks for your help.

In addition to this site, there are plenty of books that you could point her to on the topic. Even the Writer's Digest Guide to Publishers gives a basic enough outline of how the publishing process should work.

For $10,000 she could pay a designer, get her own ISBN, print the books, and still have enough money to take a European vacation. It's not only bad, because of what Jim says, "money should flow towards the author." But it's bad because it's overpriced. It's almost like the "publisher" said, "Hell, if we're goin to scam people, we might as well go full out with it."

Stop her. Even if her feelings get hurt, it's better now, then later when $10,000 is gone, too.
 

underthecity

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Bleak House Books said:
Stop her. Even if her feelings get hurt, it's better now, then later when $10,000 is gone, too.
Definitely. If her book is good enough, she can surely find a commercial publisher who will pay her, then she really will be published. No stigma attached.

allen
 

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Bleak House Books said:
For $10,000 she could pay a designer, get her own ISBN, print the books, and still have enough money to take a European vacation. It's not only bad, because of what Jim says, "money should flow towards the author." But it's bad because it's overpriced. It's almost like the "publisher" said, "Hell, if we're goin to scam people, we might as well go full out with it."

Stop her. Even if her feelings get hurt, it's better now, then later when $10,000 is gone, too.

You are so right. That's a big chunk of change and all you end up with is a trunk load of books you can't sell. Even if the book is good, it would be hard to sell them....from your trunk...one by one.

We don't want to hurt her feelings, but it's sort of a 'friends don't let friends drive drunk' scenario, but a little more delicate than bopping someone over the head and taking their keys. It's her decision, but we're hoping she'll think and research more before she takes the plunge. This site has been mentioned. We've got our fingers crossed.

Thanks for your input.
 

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underthecity said:
Definitely. If her book is good enough, she can surely find a commercial publisher who will pay her, then she really will be published. No stigma attached.

allen

This is a first novel and I think she has given up too soon with the reputable houses and agents. Like Uncle Jim says: "Send it out until hell won't have it." I don't think Lucifer has read it yet. She's a very good writer. She just hasn't found the right 'fit' yet.

Thanks, undercity. I feel sick about the whole thing. I want the best for her.
 

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aka eraser said:
Point her to this thread for starters. Would she be excited if a company "hired" her and she had to pay them $10,000 for the privilege?

We have mentioned this site and others that deal with 'bad' publishing deals. Whether she's read them or not, I don't know. Let's hope she does.

Good point about paying a company to hire you. I might use that somewhere down the line.

Thanks, aka eraser. I appreciate your input.
 

roach

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Ray's Dog said:
This is a first novel and I think she has given up too soon with the reputable houses and agents. Like Uncle Jim says: "Send it out until hell won't have it." I don't think Lucifer has read it yet. She's a very good writer. She just hasn't found the right 'fit' yet.

Thanks, undercity. I feel sick about the whole thing. I want the best for her.

Miss Snark, a literary agent says you must collect 100 rejections. At that point you look back at your book and at the feedback you've collected and see where you need to improve the book. This is along the same line as Uncle Jim's advice, but with a concrete number for those writers who feel better about such things.

You also might want to ask your friend to go into the neighborhood big bookstore and look for books published by VMI. My guess is that she won't find any on the shelf. If the company can't/won't get their books on the shelf then readers won't get to read them. Ask her which she'd rather have, to be "published" or to be read. That just might help put things in perspective.

Good luck.
 

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roach said:
Miss Snark, a literary agent says you must collect 100 rejections. At that point you look back at your book and at the feedback you've collected and see where you need to improve the book. This is along the same line as Uncle Jim's advice, but with a concrete number for those writers who feel better about such things.

You also might want to ask your friend to go into the neighborhood big bookstore and look for books published by VMI. My guess is that she won't find any on the shelf. If the company can't/won't get their books on the shelf then readers won't get to read them. Ask her which she'd rather have, to be "published" or to be read. That just might help put things in perspective.

Good luck.

I LOVE Miss Snark! Such good practical advice...with a twist of humor on the side.

Giving advice to my friend has been sort of backdoor so far....diplomatic as possible. We're sort of seeding the ground for when she comes down off the high of thinking this is a 'good deal'. Your suggestion about going to bookstores and looking for a book published by VMI is a great idea. I'll pass that on...and around and see if we can shove it in the door. It's an important point.

Thanks.
 

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I believe Uncle Jim once said he wrote his first novel at age 12 and published his first novel at age 35. Maybe this is worth bearing in mind.
 

James D. Macdonald

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It's true (though I did other things in the interim).

Also, you might consider pointing your friend to http://www.sfwa.org/beware/

Will your friend be happier with you if she sends $10K to these folks, finds out the hard way what it means, then finds out that you knew all along what was going to happen but didn't tell her?