• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

DAW Books

editing_for_authors
Editing for authors: because every writer needs a good editor.

Wonderlander

Bird In Flight
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
124
Reaction score
8
Location
Cambridge, UK
Cheer up, dl! If you're on your second reading, there's clearly movement. If the buzz is good maybe it will be sooner rather than later. You might have written just what they're looking for.

I'm crossing my virtual fingers for you.
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
Well, I wrote DAW twice after my original submission--once via letter (since they seem to prefer to communicate the oldfashioned way)--and when that got no reply after a couple months more, I scrounged up the submissions editor's email address and emailed a brief polite status inquiry.

No reply to either. Submitted mid-April; followup from DAW confirming passed first reading in May; nothing from them since.

Is this a bad sign (no reply to followup?) Do I give up hope? Is this standard for DAW (no response to followup query?) Do they hate followup queries, even after it's been 5 1/2 months?

I'm also assuming it's a waste of time to write any more; if the first two (letter and email) got no answer.

"Dejected and wondering"
 

lds

Registered
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I'm in the same boat, submitted to DAW in the first week of January, and still waiting at month 10. Probably normal...the first read just got you out of the slush pile. I think it is good advice to start that second novel - you know it's in there. BUT, let's keep each other informed if either hears anything back from DAW.

BTW, I called DAW in mid-September, and an editor told me I was indeed still in the queue, but my second read had not begun yet. He was very courteous...somehow that makes the wait seem less painful.
 

Saskatoonistan

Still the wrong side of Saskatoon
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
620
Reaction score
101
Location
The Bad Part of Saskatoon
Website
sean-cummings.ca
Love their books, but what bugs me about their submission guidelines is this:

We will not consider manuscripts that are currently on submission to another publisher unless prior arrangements have been made with a literary agent.

If it takes up to a year for them to get back to you, that's a pretty unrealistic expectation for a starving writer.
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
submitted to DAW in the first week of January
and
We will not consider manuscripts that are currently on submission to another publisher

Yes, that is a severe problem. My venting on that same topic, originally in this thread, was moved out by Mr. MacDonald (I originally mentioned the issue in regard to TOR, where I first submitted in January, and have never heard back from).

In any case, I did finally hear back from DAW, Ids, just last week. I wrote them one final email and basically said, ok, if I don't hear back within a month, I request permission to send it elsewhere.

The editor there (Mr. Stampfel) responded at that point, courteously, and assured me it was still in second reading (same as yours). So, we're both still hanging in there, I guess (provided it doesn't go on too much longer--I look askance at year-long waits for answers, too. I'd like to sell this book somewhere before 2010. 6 months to write, a year to market?)

DAW still comes out ahead so far. Baen: from real-life previous experience, I found their response time is closer to two years than one (and the submission I sent to them, of an earlier novel, got rejected twice for some reason, both more than a year later. Huh?). Tor: well, January submission date, no follow-up, even when the editor was (indirectly) advised via my AW comments.

DAW has been courteous, anyway, if slow. And boy, courtesy does count. Just because 100,000+ writers are trying to sell to 200+ market opportunities shouldn't change that.

So best of luck to both of us, Ids.

And yes, of course keep writing.
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
P. S. Hey! Saskatoonistan! You and I almost have the same byline ("It's cold out there!")

Though, judging by the snow in your photo, I cede you the honors. I was thinking of people with mine, anyway.
 

HapiSofi

Hagiographically Advantaged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,093
Reaction score
674
Yes, that is a severe problem. My venting on that same topic, originally in this thread, was moved out by Mr. MacDonald (I originally mentioned the issue in regard to TOR, where I first submitted in January, and have never heard back from).
I believe Tor's cleared its slush pile down to bare metal more than once since then. If they've gotten your manuscript, you should have gotten your rejection by now. Alternately, they love your book but some very complicated mishap has befallen it.
In any case, I did finally hear back from DAW, Ids, just last week. I wrote them one final email and basically said, ok, if I don't hear back within a month, I request permission to send it elsewhere.

The editor there (Mr. Stampfel)...
Peter Stampfel, once a member of the legendary Holy Modal Rounders. He married Betsy Wollheim: an editor in her own right, and daughter of fannish and publishing great Donald A. Wollheim (as in DAW). Don Wollheim was, among a great many other things, a core member of the Futurians.

Just thought I'd mention it, because it's fun.
responded at that point, courteously, and assured me it was still in second reading (same as yours). So, we're both still hanging in there, I guess (provided it doesn't go on too much longer--I look askance at year-long waits for answers, too. I'd like to sell this book somewhere before 2010. 6 months to write, a year to market?)
They'd do it faster if they could.
DAW still comes out ahead so far. Baen: from real-life previous experience, I found their response time is closer to two years than one (and the submission I sent to them, of an earlier novel, got rejected twice for some reason, both more than a year later. Huh?).
Jeez. You complain when one publisher doesn't send you a rejection, then complain when another sends you two. I'd say you've come out even.
Tor: well, January submission date, no follow-up, even when the editor was (indirectly) advised via my AW comments.
I'm pretty sure the Tor submission guidelines don't mention communicating via the threads at AW. Either your manuscript has gone astray, or Tor's just doing this to mess with your head, or they love your book but some very complicated mishap has befallen it. Take your pick.
 
Last edited:

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
Jeez. You complain

I'm not complaining, Hapi. Sharing my personal experience, which we're entitled to do here, in the hopes other writers benefit. Right?

Nor do I think Tor is "messing with my head", as you put it. The submission was most likely mislaid is my assumption, given the time that's passed: by the post office, underneath a desk, whatever. That happens, even in the best of circumstances.

So what. I send my manuscript elsewhere, Tor happily picks up the millionth new submission from another author, fine. Life goes on. If I want to send it elsewhere, rather than write in and say, hey! you seem to have lost my manuscript; would you try again? and then wait, possibly, another year... that's my privilege.

Courtesy counts. If I were an editor advised a submission had gone MIA, I'd apologize and invite a re-submission. Rather than, say, blame it on the Post Office. But that's just me.

Yes, Mr. Stampfel has a more intriguing background than many editors. If he buys my book, I'll sure try out the Holy Modal Rounders on my CD player. :) (Someone needs to explain that name to me, though).
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
And... it's far better to get a rejection and know your work's status than to get nothing. With a firm answer, whatever it is, we go on immediately and submit elsewhere. If it's nothing, we wait until it's obvious something happened, and then either resubmit or try elsewhere. Far more time and frustration elapses over the second option.

I take rejections just fine, especially when editors bother to write a personal comment along with the rejection. If all readers liked the same thing, all editors would, too. But they don't. Editors have personal tastes just like readers do; publishers also have to consider marketability and profit, whether they love the work or not.

There's an editor and publisher out there who will love my work; also plenty who will toss it aside. That's the breaks.
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
We're not talking about Tor, at least only a mention in passing related to wait times from me, and a response to another's comments on it.

I'm done. I've mentioned this before, anyway, so I shouldn't have mentioned it again.

ANyway--hang in there, Ids. At least we both made it out of the DAW slush pile, eh? I'll drop a line here when I finally hear back one way or the other and hope you do too.
 

lds

Registered
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Well, it's been quite a few months, dlparker. Have you heard anything from DAW?
 

zanizh

Lost in Revision Hell
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
152
Reaction score
21
Location
In tha sticks.
DAW Books - Waiting Time

I didn't know where else to put this post. I know DAW, which is a part of Penguin, is a legit publishing company, I just had a general question about the wait time.

I apologize if this has been asked before; I did a search and because DAW is only three letters, the system refused to put up results.

Okay, here's the story. In June of '09, I sent the entire manuscript with a cover letter to DAW as per their submission guidelines. Two months later, I got a letter stating that my novel had passed the first reading but that they were very backed up and it would take awhile for a second reading. Six months later, I sent a follow-up and got a note back thanking me for my continued patience and that they were still very backed up.

I've been updating readers on my progress through my blog. I met someone who is in the same boat as I... only that writer has been waiting for a second review for over a year now.

My question: Is there anyone out there in Absolute-Land who has heard anything (a pass or rejection) from a second reading from DAW? How long was your wait time?

I'm not being impatient, I'm just curious. I have several other projects out there waiting for review as well so I'm staying busy while waiting.

Any thoughts? Experiences?
 

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong
Staff member
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
15,587
Reaction score
2,409
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Website
www.annazabo.com
There's some info in the Penguin group thread, toward the end: <snipped>
 
Last edited by a moderator:

zanizh

Lost in Revision Hell
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
152
Reaction score
21
Location
In tha sticks.
The information from the other thread helps but there's no one that says they've had any response from a second reading yet. Oh, well. I shall wait patiently, revise my newer novel and start the third one! Woot! Maybe by then, I'll hear something.
 

kurzon

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
338
Reaction score
39
My question: Is there anyone out there in Absolute-Land who has heard anything (a pass or rejection) from a second reading from DAW? How long was your wait time?

How's your submission going zanizh (and everyone else who seemed to be in limbo in this thread)? I hope it's been cleared up for you. [But in any case, passing a first reading at any publishing house is a nice compliment!]
 
Last edited:

zanizh

Lost in Revision Hell
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
152
Reaction score
21
Location
In tha sticks.
How's your submission going zanizh (and everyone else who seemed to be in limbo in this thread)? I hope it's been cleared up for you. [But in any case, passing a first reading at any publishing house is a nice compliment!]

Thanks for asking. Still haven't heard from DAW. I'm going to send them a second follow-up in August; that will be a year from when I first got the letter that I passed the first reading. But that's okay because with each follow-up, I've been able to add a credit. :)

I know there are others out there who are waiting on DAW's second wave of readers, too, so I will post here whether it's a rejection or if they are passing it on to an editor for final say so just so others have a general idea of the timeline.
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
I'm sorry I didn't reply to your question earlier, IDS. Afraid I haven't visited AW for a while.

Did I hear back from DAW? Never got a yea or nay. Didn't get a reply to last two followups either.

My manuscript was originally submitted end of April 2009. I wrote them on the anniversary and received no answer to my email.

So I wrote them again and told them unless I had a reply, their exclusive was up and I was submitting it elsewhere.

And I didn't get any reply. So I submitted it elsewhere.

Three elsewheres, in fact. Stuff this year-long-exclusive business, though I inform the editors when I submit. It does authors a great disservice to combine exclusives requirements, more-than-12-month waits, and non-replies.

Guess how I feel after wasting a year waiting. To think I got so excited when I got that "passed our first reading" letter! Sounds like they just send them out.

Well, live and learn.

If anyone does EVER hear back from DAW, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Thanks.
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
Oh, and I should add I found (sadly, after the fact) some scary stats published by Critters, the writing/critique group. Their stats showed DAW at over 400 days average response time--I think it was 496 days, but I'll have to double check, and it may have changed recently, of course.

And all the people who replied to the Critters poll got rejected. After an average of 400+ days wait.

Now THAT is discouraging. I sincerely wish I'd seen that before I wasted (apparently) a year.
 

zanizh

Lost in Revision Hell
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
152
Reaction score
21
Location
In tha sticks.
Thanks for responding. I post updates and such on my blog. So far no one has ever heard back from a second reading yet and the longest wait time has been just one month shy of two years. I posted my response in my blog post A DAW Revelation

I figure I'll pull it when I'm tired of waiting. In the meantime, I'm marketing another novel, writing on another, marketing several short stories, waiting the release of an anthology one of my stories is going in, and keeping busy with my content writing.

What confuses me is how they manage to let you know sooo quickly that you've passed a first reading (I got the note 2 months after initially submitting), but wait so long to hear from a second reading. I would love to know the inner workings of the business because it is a heck of a lot more discouraging to writers to have your hopes up, wait two years and then be rejected (or not responded to) than it is for them to just say, "Sorry, we don't need it," to begin with. I'm beginning to think that I agree with you, that the "passed the first reading" is a blanketed response.

In any case, when I send my next follow-up next month, I'll be asking Mr. Stampfel for a phone or email interview for my column to address these questions. It's a long shot but he responded to my last follow-up so we'll see. Whichever way it goes, I will be keeping everyone updated here and on my blog.
 

dlparker

It's cold out there
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
116
Reaction score
3
Location
Washington
Website
www.bewilderingstories.com
Hello Zanizh,

That's exactly what I received: a nice postal letter about 2 months after initial submission. Wow, I thought, these guys beat all the other big publishers, who never ack: (except for those with an automated submissions process).

At this point, I feel betrayed by that letter. Did they know how excited a newbie writer would get receiving it, and then how awful she'd feel, after a year's wait and not even the courtesy of a reply to a status query? Did they even read my submission in the first place? Do they reply to all submissions with this same standard letter? I'd really like to know.

I'd rather have a rejection by far than an open and dangling silence. It would have let me get on with sending my submission elsewhere a lot sooner--maybe a year ago. Given that it takes probably 18 months or more to get a book into print even when sold, we're staring down the road of many, many years, friend. A year wasted is not trivial.

I hope Mr. Stampfel agrees to your interview, and I certainly look forward to reading his answers if he does. Ask him the tough ones and let's see what he says.

Good luck with it, and with your submissions... wherever they end up going.
 

KimJo

Outside the box, with the bunnehz
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
3,998
Reaction score
292
Location
somewhere in Massachusetts
Received a form rejection from DAW on an urban fantasy I sent them. I mailed off the manuscript on July 7 and received the rejection today, so at least they're fast when they don't want something...
 

Elizabeth George's book Write Away