[Critique services] Marketing the Muse (Marla Miller)

[writersMAMA]

I just reported this thread to management-it seems to be run by bullies and i think one of you just threatened my reputation---since i seem to be one of few using my name here, i take this very seriously.
and if ur pros, god help us.
marla miller
www.marlamiller.com

 

[Terie]

I just reported this thread to management-it seems to be run by bullies and i think one of you just threatened my reputation---since i seem to be one of few using my name here, i take this very seriously.
and if ur pros, god help us.
marla miller
www.marlamiller.com

If we're pros? You might want to check some sig lines.

And you reported this thread to management? If your skin is this thin, you're in the wrong business.

You've opened a business offering services in exchange for money. You should expect your business to be scrutinised. If you can't handle scrutiny, you'll have a hard time.

Also? You're asking people to pay you money for help they can get in many other places for free. Most of us here take a dim view of such services.

After all, we believe in Yog's Law: Money flows to the writer.

 

[LindaJeanne]

This thread is a wonderful oppertunity for you to clarify what you are offering, why you are qualified to offer it, and answer any questions or concerns that potential customers might have ... People aren't going to judge you based on what other people ask or the tone they take; they are going to judge you based on how you respond.
.

I just reported this thread to management-it seems to be run by bullies and i think one of you just threatened my reputation---since i seem to be one of few using my name here, i take this very seriously.
and if ur pros, god help us.
marla miller

...and that's all I have to say.

 

[Bubastes]

If you offer a valuable service, this is a great place to get known and find business. I would submit to Musa Publishing in a heartbeat if I had anything suitable, simply because I have a huge amount of respect for Mscelina.

Bullies? Hardly. You're asking people to give you their hard-earned money. It's fair for people to ask what they'd be getting in return.

ETA: OK, to save you the trouble, here's an example of how a publisher handled tough, legitimate questions here at AW:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6646212

Now might be a good time to ask yourself if you're handling questions with the same level of professionalism. If not, why not? How is your conduct here helping your business?

 

[amergina]

I just reported this thread to management--it seems to be run by bullies and i I think one of you just threatened my reputation.---sSince i I seem to be one of few using my name here, i I take this very seriously.
aAnd if ur you are pros, gGod help us.
mMarla mMiller

Can't wait to see what the Absolute Write management has to say.

Got to love a "pro" who thinks the Shift Key is optional when typing. I don't care if you're on a mobile device. Take the time to use the language correctly if you're selling your services as a writer or editor.

 

[JulieB]

If we're pros?
You've opened a business offering services in exchange for money. You should expect your business to be scrutinised. If you can't handle scrutiny, you'll have a hard time.

Quoted for truth. This holds true for ANY business.

 

[honeysock]

and if ur pros, god help us.

You're trying to appeal to writers with this . . . on a public board? Wow. Maybe you shouldn't be so worried about others damaging your reputation.

 

[CaoPaux]

Management awaits receipt of report with bated breath.

 

[Momento Mori]

writersMAMA:

-i won't be bothering you again--

You'd actually learn a lot if you stuck around here, but have it your way. I appreciate the irony of seeing someone who advocates the importance of "finding your tribe" running away like the clappers from the very people who should be her tribe.

More seriously, I honestly get so sick of seeing people flounce and pout on these Forums just because someone's dared to point out that what they're doing isn't reallly as useful/unique/special/wonderful as they think it is.

ETA:

writersMAMA:
I just reported this thread to management-it seems to be run by bullies and i think one of you just threatened my reputation---since i seem to be one of few using my name here, i take this very seriously.
and if ur pros, god help us.

Grow up, Marla. The only one torpedoing your reputation is you. Your antics reveal you to be a thin skinned, petulant, pathetic woman with poor puncutation, poorer communication and non-existent PR skills.

MM

 

[Terie]

For the record, I've received a PM from Marla, which includes accusations of us being bullies and not using our real names. I've forwarded the message to Mac.

For the record, I post under my real name.

Marla, we're not doing any damage to your reputation as a publishing professional; you're doing it yourself.

 

[LindaJeanne]

i think one of you just threatened my reputation---

Since I was puzzled by this, I did a search for every prior post (barring yours) in this thread that contained the word "reputation". Here are all the places where the word "reputation" occurred, in context.

I'm curious to know which you interpreted as a "threat."

I personally love it when an editor or agent offers clear, rational reasons for the value of their services; verifiable backgrounds, qualifications, and associations; and open lists of their clientele. Finding an agent is like a job interview for both agent and writer. I wouldn't trust my artwork to an ignorant or unscrupulous gallery owner who might vanish overnight with it. Likewise, I wouldn't trust an agent or editorial consultant who didn't have a great reputation as well as vast knowledge of their industry.

If you want to run a business, you have to control your reputation - we all do it, too - and having a flounce on a message board is not what I want to see from anybody asking for my money. Why would I want to work with anybody like that?

Finally, when touting your services on a board that is populated by professional writers, editors, publishers and agents it would be wise to bear in mind that those potential clients will be judging you on the editing skills you claim to possess. Your posts, however, have not been kind to your professional repuation. A note you may wish to bear in mind.

...

The post below is an example of what I mean. It's not helping your reputation, and it's not helping to mark you out as someone with the capabilities to be critiquing professionally, given the scattershot punctuation and random line breaks.

Edited to add: For the record, this is my real name, as well.

Even people who use obvious "handles" here often have links in their signatures to blogs, published works, and the like. So they are rooted in an actual identity, not sock-puppets.

And while some choose not to have their identity on this board connected to their identity elsewhere, I haven't seen anyone on this thread behave in a sock-puppetish manner.

 

[Momento Mori]

Like, Terie, I too was treated to a PM from Marla, which I reproduce here because I don't tolerate poorly written crap from emotionally overwraught women seeking to try and lay a guilt trip on me.

PM from WritersMAMA:
My advice?
as opposed to urs which is so spot on, i'm sure
u guys r bullies--& no i don't cap & yes, i'm pretty good @ what i do-
karma....
it's also a very small writing community out here---
i notice most don't use ur names.
ur a bunch of bullies & should be ashamed of the way u treated me here-

If this is an example of your letter writing skills, Marla, then I think you're a sub-literate hack and if anyone here should be ashamed then it's you. You're charging people for a dubious service when you have all the communication skills of a rotting kumquat.

I don't post under my real name because I don't want to and I don't have to because the issue of operating under your real name is that twits who may or may not be like Marla can decide to follow you around the net engaging in harrassing behaviour. However, long term users of the AW boards will know where I post and know that I do link to areas where I do operate under my real name as a couple of AW stalkers who decided to troll my blog/Twitter feed can attest to.

MM

 

[CaoPaux]

Management is in receipt of aforementioned report. Management requests all big fish/small pond bullies who live on AW to stroke your writing egos to please refrain from further meanness.

 

[amergina]

I will note that every link in my signature leads to my real name.

 

[Filigree]

Oh, good, Momento Mori posted a copy of the PM already.

I sum up this entire thread as a fine example of irony.

 

[IceCreamEmpress]

I don't use my name here (though I disclose it to anyone who asks me via PM), because I want to be crystal-clear that I'm not using my participation on the board to solicit business in any way (and when people from here have asked if I can work with them, I've given them a bunch of referrals to other and probably better editors whose work I know well).

So the irony of being accused of being an anonymous bully by someone who is here to solicit business, and who's doing so by inappropriate and ill-informed postings on the board to boot, is delicious.

 

[Momento Mori]

IceCreamEmpress:
So the irony of being accused of being an anonymous bully by someone who is here to solicit business, and who's doing so by inappropriate and ill-informed postings on the board to boot, is delicious.

Also ironic is the fact that Marla's bitching elsewhere about us being all "lord&master" when she came here to "lord&master" over us with her poor advice based on one book released over a decade ago and her being really, really big among SB's writing circles. I really hope she does a blog post about it because I can do with the lolz. In the meantime, given that she's offered to privately tell her friends about us, I'm counting down to imminent sockpuppet arrival ...

MM

 

[James D. Macdonald]

I wouldn't trust this woman to critique my grocery list.

1) Alphabetization: "Squash" should come after "Radishes" and before "Tomatoes."

2) Capitalization: "Carnation Instant Breakfast" is a trademarked name, and should be capitalized.

3) Spelling: "Sugur" should read "Sugar."

4) Possible error: Item #12 seems to be missing; the list goes directly from Item #11 to Item #13. Is this intentional?

5) Cleansers containing chlorine (e.g. Item #3, Clorox) and cleansers containing ammonia (e.g. Item #8, Mr. Clean) cause hazardous fumes when combined. Suggest you delete one or the other from your list.

6) It is unlikely that your local grocery stocks "Zebra Haunch Roast (fresh)." Suggest you re-write to change this to "Beef" or "Chicken."

 

[LindaJeanne]

Kind of a tangent, but here's an interesting piece (in the wake of the Google Plus must-use-real-names fiasco) talking about why using real names isn't the point. Stable identities within a community matter (i.e. not showing up each day with a different name), not whether that name can be connected to a real-world identity.

"Don’t Suspend Scout Finch, Mr. Schmidt. It’s Wrong and It’s Bad for Business." http://technosociology.org/?p=530

(I know I'm preaching to the converted, but it's an interesting article. And relevant to a tangent we're already on.)

1) Alphabetization: "Tomatoes" should come after "Radishes" and before "Squash."

 

[Filigree]

Oh, you're correct. I did leave out item #12 from the grocery list. I believe it was 'Tranquilizer Gun for imminent sockpuppets'.

Am I being a bully? A bit, and I truly apologize for rattling a cage and appearing to take enjoyment from it. I don't enjoy this. I want to see success stories like Musa Publishing's, as it rises from the ashes of AMP. I want to see savvy businesses offering must-have services for writers.

This is a tough industry. Agents, editors, and marketers don't have any time to soothe the wounded egos of newer writers bruised by form rejection after form rejection. Stung by a system they perceive as predatory rather than impersonal, these new writers often buy into the services of folks who claim to be mentors, editors, book doctors, etc. Some are well-meaning, others are outright criminals. Their secret formulas and shortcuts may not exist, or are no longer applicable to current markets. Such 'professionals' can do lots of damage to a writer's work, career prospects, and self-respect.

Why do so many self-help, multilevel marketing, and cult apologists never get past the phase of uncritical adulation? Because once they've sunk time, money, and reputation into the process, they never want to admit they were taken.

AW, Writer Beware, and other forums exist because responsible professionals are trying to give newer writers access to hard-won tools and knowledge. I've been stung more than a few times by AW posts, but I've always understood the poster was trying to help me.

 

[Old Hack]

From Ms Miller's website:

During my years as Assistant Director of Santa Barbara Writers Conference, I established the Young Writers Program and MC'ed many literary agent panels.

I'm not sure when she was involved with the Santa Barbara Writers' Conference, but if I had been associated with it I'm not sure I'd brag about that.

It was questionable whether the conference would ever see life again after the 2009 conference was called off amid bankruptcy, controversy, finger-pointing, and complaints from those who had signed up only to lose their deposits.

There's more about the problems involved with the conference here and here.

 

[Filigree]

Ah. Daylight.

 

[Terie]

I'm not sure when she was involved with the Santa Barbara Writers' Conference, but if I had been associated with it I'm not sure I'd brag about that.

I hadn't heard about the recent troubles (being as I haven't lived in California for over a decade now), but the Santa Barbara Writers' Conference was once considered to be one of the more reputable writers' conferences in the US.

That said, having terrific organisational skills doesn't automatically equal having strong writing, editing, and/or critiquing skills. One with the former might or might not have the latter. And one with any or all of these still might lack basic business skills.

 

[IceCreamEmpress]

Per her LinkedIn profile, Ms. Miller started work at the Santa Barbara Writers Conference in 2003, the last year it was under the founders' management, and is still working for the conference (unless the LinkedIn profile is out of date). (On edit: indeed, Ms. Miller is still working with them.)

That does suggest that the bulk of her work experience with them was when it was under the management of Marcia Meier, during which time the conference went bankrupt and attracted the negative press attention Old Hack quotes.

 

[Bicyclefish]

From her about page:

Two clients authored best-selling books. One went through a conventional publisher and one self published which turned me into a believer in self publishing’s potential.

What are the names of those bestsellers?

[edit 1] While trying to find the names of these books, I noticed Mrs.Miller is a follower of Writer Beware (she comments occasionally) and interviewed Victoria and Ann*. It has nothing to do with her credentials, but I'm disappointed to see someone who supports the site's goals behave in such a manner.

*Although when I checked their blogtalkradio account I only found an interview with Ann.

[edit 2]

There's more about the problems involved with the conference here and here.

On a tangent, I think the conference illustrates how a lot of people don't consider all the information and costs when starting or taking over a business.