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Re: Yep
Profitable Publishing is a vanity press.
Authors would be well advised to stay away.
<HR>
I would have been quite content to let this discussion sink into obscurity, and let EJ's site return to obscurity with it. But since she wishes to revisit the question, let me explain in some detail how I found her site to start with, and why I reached the conclusion I did.
I was looking at the thread <a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11226.htm" target="_new">How Did You Discover PA?</a> to find out how authors were coming to that particular vanity press. Most of the authors who responded there had never before been published by anyone; most of them found PA via Google. But one or two authors had previous publishing credits. I looked them up to see where they had been previously published, to see what comparisons they could make between other publishers and PublishAmerica.
One of the authors who had previous publishing experience was Margaret M. Meyers. Her previous book was Dreams and Visions of Assurance. Here's what I found when I went to Amazon.com to check on her book, its price, and her sales rank:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
# Paperback
# ISBN: 1932344179
# Average Customer Review: ***** based on 1 review.
# Amazon.com Sales Rank in Books: #2,512,149
</BLOCKQUOTE>
That's an absolutely dreadful sales rank. I further noticed that no publisher was listed, and no cover price was given. And I noticed that two used and new were available from $9.95. Clicking that link took me to "Seller: profitablepublishing" with the note "Comments: Printing new ones whenever they're ordered."
What kind of name Profitable Publishing? That's a bad sign -- like an email with the subject line "Make Money Fast!!!!!" It tells me that this publisher is marketing to hopeful authors, not to readers. And what's with "printing new ones whenever they're ordered"? That looks like someone with a Xerox machine in their basement.
I became interested in the publisher. Following links to Profitable Publishing at Amazon led to two other titles: The Granny Mystique with the notice "Seller's comments: Can print to order" and A Dolphin's Tale with "Seller's comments: Brand new books - made to order."
So off to Google I went, to find Profitable Publishing. And what I found there filled me with dismay. A garish, amateurish page, with incredibly poorly-written HTML (yes, I did look at the page source -- shall I make comments on the Meta-tags and on the misuse of graphics?), offering a "new paradigm in publishing." It looked to me like a very old paradigm indeed, and a bit of searching found the charges. $549, or $600 if divided into easy payments. I looked at the hype. I looked at the drivel. I made my determination.
There's a line in the sand -- it's called "The author pays." On one side of that line are the places where the publisher pays the author. Those are the good guys. On the other side of that line are the places where the author pays the publisher. Those are the vanity presses, right the way down to total scams.
So -- here's a book that's selling through an Amazon zShop? That's their marketing mode? And the charges put Profitable Publishing in the higher rank of the POD vanities.
That's why I made the comment I did -- which was quite a mild one, considering how bad a feeling I had about this publisher.
Profitable Publishing is a vanity press.
Authors would be well advised to stay away.
<HR>
I would have been quite content to let this discussion sink into obscurity, and let EJ's site return to obscurity with it. But since she wishes to revisit the question, let me explain in some detail how I found her site to start with, and why I reached the conclusion I did.
I was looking at the thread <a href="http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11226.htm" target="_new">How Did You Discover PA?</a> to find out how authors were coming to that particular vanity press. Most of the authors who responded there had never before been published by anyone; most of them found PA via Google. But one or two authors had previous publishing credits. I looked them up to see where they had been previously published, to see what comparisons they could make between other publishers and PublishAmerica.
One of the authors who had previous publishing experience was Margaret M. Meyers. Her previous book was Dreams and Visions of Assurance. Here's what I found when I went to Amazon.com to check on her book, its price, and her sales rank:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
# Paperback
# ISBN: 1932344179
# Average Customer Review: ***** based on 1 review.
# Amazon.com Sales Rank in Books: #2,512,149
</BLOCKQUOTE>
That's an absolutely dreadful sales rank. I further noticed that no publisher was listed, and no cover price was given. And I noticed that two used and new were available from $9.95. Clicking that link took me to "Seller: profitablepublishing" with the note "Comments: Printing new ones whenever they're ordered."
What kind of name Profitable Publishing? That's a bad sign -- like an email with the subject line "Make Money Fast!!!!!" It tells me that this publisher is marketing to hopeful authors, not to readers. And what's with "printing new ones whenever they're ordered"? That looks like someone with a Xerox machine in their basement.
I became interested in the publisher. Following links to Profitable Publishing at Amazon led to two other titles: The Granny Mystique with the notice "Seller's comments: Can print to order" and A Dolphin's Tale with "Seller's comments: Brand new books - made to order."
So off to Google I went, to find Profitable Publishing. And what I found there filled me with dismay. A garish, amateurish page, with incredibly poorly-written HTML (yes, I did look at the page source -- shall I make comments on the Meta-tags and on the misuse of graphics?), offering a "new paradigm in publishing." It looked to me like a very old paradigm indeed, and a bit of searching found the charges. $549, or $600 if divided into easy payments. I looked at the hype. I looked at the drivel. I made my determination.
There's a line in the sand -- it's called "The author pays." On one side of that line are the places where the publisher pays the author. Those are the good guys. On the other side of that line are the places where the author pays the publisher. Those are the vanity presses, right the way down to total scams.
So -- here's a book that's selling through an Amazon zShop? That's their marketing mode? And the charges put Profitable Publishing in the higher rank of the POD vanities.
That's why I made the comment I did -- which was quite a mild one, considering how bad a feeling I had about this publisher.
Re: Yep
"Mr. Lawyer? A bunch of respected writers and people in the publishing business criticised my subsidy press on the internet, and they suggested that I might be doing my authors a disservice! Look, it's right here on this ezboard! I want to sue them! Call the internet police!"
If your authors make it on to Oprah, they will most likely start demanding large advances and move on to a real publisher.
Heh.
"Mr. Lawyer? A bunch of respected writers and people in the publishing business criticised my subsidy press on the internet, and they suggested that I might be doing my authors a disservice! Look, it's right here on this ezboard! I want to sue them! Call the internet police!"
Nope
The chances of ANY author - even a bestselling author getting on Oprah or Maury or TV period are very small. The chances of a self-published doing so are almost non-existent.
While deep down most probably foster dreams of sitting next to Jay Leno or making the bestseller list or getting a Pulitizer - they are nice tdreams to have but not very realistic.
If EJ has those dreams herself - then she is normal - but if she is encouraging her authors to seriously believe in those pie-in-the-sky dreams then she should be ashamed of herself.
As a publisher, even a vanity publisher - she should be realistic with her authors.
And if she truly believes in her writers - then when she comes across a really good manuscript with true potential - she would encourage the writer to continue to query agents and traditional publishers, so that the writer can have a shot at the success he or she deserves - instead of allowing the book to wallow in the depths of the amazon pod lists.
The chances of ANY author - even a bestselling author getting on Oprah or Maury or TV period are very small. The chances of a self-published doing so are almost non-existent.
While deep down most probably foster dreams of sitting next to Jay Leno or making the bestseller list or getting a Pulitizer - they are nice tdreams to have but not very realistic.
If EJ has those dreams herself - then she is normal - but if she is encouraging her authors to seriously believe in those pie-in-the-sky dreams then she should be ashamed of herself.
As a publisher, even a vanity publisher - she should be realistic with her authors.
And if she truly believes in her writers - then when she comes across a really good manuscript with true potential - she would encourage the writer to continue to query agents and traditional publishers, so that the writer can have a shot at the success he or she deserves - instead of allowing the book to wallow in the depths of the amazon pod lists.
Re:Yep
---"I'm so happy for you that after 6 days of no responses to your dissertation that a teenager understands you... (Anders Bruce Homepage of a teen author)"---
Well I guess he's one up on you ...cause you sure as heck didn't....
---"You don't influence my business, except to watch you and collect the evidence I will use in a lawsuit if your unfounded insults and allegations go too far."----
BRING IT ON....(I've said nothing)
Frankly,.... people do influence your business, both myself and potential customers of your books.
I have noticed you've decided to single me out for some reason and not address the professionals questions with respectable answers. Take a Valium or something...it is the season of good cheer.
Besides that I'm still looking for your books in local book stores, for curiosity's sake. If I find one I like, I'll be sure and pick one up.........
---"I'm so happy for you that after 6 days of no responses to your dissertation that a teenager understands you... (Anders Bruce Homepage of a teen author)"---
Well I guess he's one up on you ...cause you sure as heck didn't....
---"You don't influence my business, except to watch you and collect the evidence I will use in a lawsuit if your unfounded insults and allegations go too far."----
BRING IT ON....(I've said nothing)
Frankly,.... people do influence your business, both myself and potential customers of your books.
I have noticed you've decided to single me out for some reason and not address the professionals questions with respectable answers. Take a Valium or something...it is the season of good cheer.
Besides that I'm still looking for your books in local book stores, for curiosity's sake. If I find one I like, I'll be sure and pick one up.........
Re: Just curious -
This time, EJ said:
Read my lips. I'll speak slowly. Experienced publishing professionals, and some very well-informed amateurs, have been trying to explain to you that YOUR PUBLISHING MODEL ISN'T GOING TO WORK. But you don't care.
We wouldn't care either, if it were just your own books going down the drain. You're of age. If you want to spend your life flattering yourself, that's your right, and no one can stop you. We only care because you're dragging other authors into the swamp after you.
You've told those authors that you know what you're doing. You've told them they can make money. They've believed you. And as this forum has pointed out several times already, you're targeting writers who need money, and who can't afford to throw away $600 on your no-hope publishing program.
I asked you before whether you feel any responsibility for your authors and their books. You're making it clearer and clearer that you don't.
You're not a real author. You're not a real publisher, either. You're a cheap crook and a small-time grifter, and you're only going to get cheaper. I've seen career scammers with barely-average IQs pay more attention than you do, because they knew the information would help them tune up and polish their scams. You can't even be bothered to do that much.
I don't think you ever meant to run a real publishing operation. I think the entire point of your scam, aside from stealing from the poor, is to give support to your personal fantasies about your unsaleable books and nonexistent career.
Have you been saying things like that all your life? Is that why you're such an astounding ignoramus? EJ, sometimes, when people tell you you're doing something wrong, it's because you're doing something wrong and they're trying to help you. If that doesn't concern you, then fine; stay stupid. Just leave all those other writers out of it.
One of your authors might make it onto Oprah or Leno, but only if they ditch you and sell their work to a real publisher.
If you do something sufficiently bizarre, you might make it onto one of those afternoon shows where the audience yells at you a lot. They still won't want to hear about your lousy books.
Besides, as I said earlier, you're a small-time grifter. You'll never have a lawyer working for you on anything but a contingency basis, and any lawyer who has the sense God gave a soda cracker is going to tell you "no thanks" and send you on your way.
This time, EJ said:
You just keep barkin', mama.
Okay. That answers my question, even though you didn't intend it that way. This really is all about you. You don't give a damn about your authors.
Read my lips. I'll speak slowly. Experienced publishing professionals, and some very well-informed amateurs, have been trying to explain to you that YOUR PUBLISHING MODEL ISN'T GOING TO WORK. But you don't care.
We wouldn't care either, if it were just your own books going down the drain. You're of age. If you want to spend your life flattering yourself, that's your right, and no one can stop you. We only care because you're dragging other authors into the swamp after you.
You've told those authors that you know what you're doing. You've told them they can make money. They've believed you. And as this forum has pointed out several times already, you're targeting writers who need money, and who can't afford to throw away $600 on your no-hope publishing program.
I asked you before whether you feel any responsibility for your authors and their books. You're making it clearer and clearer that you don't.
You're not a real author. You're not a real publisher, either. You're a cheap crook and a small-time grifter, and you're only going to get cheaper. I've seen career scammers with barely-average IQs pay more attention than you do, because they knew the information would help them tune up and polish their scams. You can't even be bothered to do that much.
I don't think you ever meant to run a real publishing operation. I think the entire point of your scam, aside from stealing from the poor, is to give support to your personal fantasies about your unsaleable books and nonexistent career.
Tell that to your authors. It's only fair to warn them.
No.
Have you been saying things like that all your life? Is that why you're such an astounding ignoramus? EJ, sometimes, when people tell you you're doing something wrong, it's because you're doing something wrong and they're trying to help you. If that doesn't concern you, then fine; stay stupid. Just leave all those other writers out of it.
Get onto Oprah or Maury or Leno on the strength of your writing? Not in a million years, kiddo. Believing in yourself isn't enough. You also have to write books that people want to read. You don't. That's your whole problem.
One of your authors might make it onto Oprah or Leno, but only if they ditch you and sell their work to a real publisher.
If you do something sufficiently bizarre, you might make it onto one of those afternoon shows where the audience yells at you a lot. They still won't want to hear about your lousy books.
That's too bad, because the thing that would impress us would be you becoming a better and more conscientious publisher. You've made it clear that you have no intention of doing that. I sincerely pity any author who takes up with you. PublishAmerica is a better deal.
Yeah. You're going to rip off your authors, screw up their careers, and waste their time and talent exactly as you please.
No, you won't. You may not care about truth, but the law does.
Besides, as I said earlier, you're a small-time grifter. You'll never have a lawyer working for you on anything but a contingency basis, and any lawyer who has the sense God gave a soda cracker is going to tell you "no thanks" and send you on your way.
Re: Just curious -
And when it comes to getting on Oprah's program, Ann, Victoria, and James Macdonald have a far greater chance of doing so.
And when it comes to getting on Oprah's program, Ann, Victoria, and James Macdonald have a far greater chance of doing so.
I've just read this entire thread...
...and my only question is, how many more times is "EJ" going to tell us that it's the last time she's gonna respond to these posts?
...and my only question is, how many more times is "EJ" going to tell us that it's the last time she's gonna respond to these posts?
Re: Just curious -
>> And when it comes to getting on Oprah's program, Ann, Victoria, and James Macdonald have a far greater chance of doing so.<<
And unless our whole families get slaughtered by Christmas elves and stuffed in Christmas stockings and we write books that detail our personal triumph over that horrifying, yet essentially life-enhancing experience, that chance is nil.
- Victoria
>> And when it comes to getting on Oprah's program, Ann, Victoria, and James Macdonald have a far greater chance of doing so.<<
And unless our whole families get slaughtered by Christmas elves and stuffed in Christmas stockings and we write books that detail our personal triumph over that horrifying, yet essentially life-enhancing experience, that chance is nil.
- Victoria
Re: Yep
Thanks for doing the detective work and pointing that out.
Yikes! :eek Even PA authors at least get a proper listing with an "Add to Shopping Cart" button and all. I've seen a lot of Amazon pages for vanity press and so-called subsidy press books, but I've never seen one where the company model was selling through zShops.
Thanks for doing the detective work and pointing that out.
Re: Just curious -
After I went through all that trouble to contract with a Christmas elf, he tells me the stockings were too small. Unless I find some that are large enough, he's refusing to take the contract.
After I went through all that trouble to contract with a Christmas elf, he tells me the stockings were too small. Unless I find some that are large enough, he's refusing to take the contract.
Re: Just curious -
Dave, are you sure there aren't writers who'd agree to that, if they thought it would get them on Oprah?
Dave, are you sure there aren't writers who'd agree to that, if they thought it would get them on Oprah?
Victoria on Opera
Well,
You could attempt to kill your lover (although, he/she will have to be someone unusual...younger, older, or famous), or your lover's wife/husband. Then you serve a couple years in prison, and then sell your tell-all book to PA.
David
Well,
You could attempt to kill your lover (although, he/she will have to be someone unusual...younger, older, or famous), or your lover's wife/husband. Then you serve a couple years in prison, and then sell your tell-all book to PA.
David
Re: Victoria on Opera
Nah, Reph, they'll give you a dollar advance that you get to keep.
I still think that every writer ought to send PA a manuscript... and then not buy any copies. The setup fees with Lightning Source should just about empty their pockets once enough non-selling manuscripts are accepted and published. That's without even taking into consideration the dollar they pay each author.
On top of that, you get access even to their private board and their email. What could be better than that, aside from seeing something unpublishable from your trunk get put out there, under an assumed name, of course?
Now if suggesting this doesn't get Willem, Larry, Miranda, CSI, and HB to vote for me as the individual PA most hates, then nothing will.
Now mind you, there's nothing illegal about this, either. They don't have to accept anything substandard. They don't have to apply proper editing and graphic artwork to what they publish. They don't have to push your work through aggressive marketing so that bookstores order it to stock on their shelves. And if they do accept something unpublishable, we don't have to purchase a single copy when they urge us to do so. After all, we have a right to expect our publisher to do right in the market.
Nah, Reph, they'll give you a dollar advance that you get to keep.
I still think that every writer ought to send PA a manuscript... and then not buy any copies. The setup fees with Lightning Source should just about empty their pockets once enough non-selling manuscripts are accepted and published. That's without even taking into consideration the dollar they pay each author.
On top of that, you get access even to their private board and their email. What could be better than that, aside from seeing something unpublishable from your trunk get put out there, under an assumed name, of course?
Now if suggesting this doesn't get Willem, Larry, Miranda, CSI, and HB to vote for me as the individual PA most hates, then nothing will.
Now mind you, there's nothing illegal about this, either. They don't have to accept anything substandard. They don't have to apply proper editing and graphic artwork to what they publish. They don't have to push your work through aggressive marketing so that bookstores order it to stock on their shelves. And if they do accept something unpublishable, we don't have to purchase a single copy when they urge us to do so. After all, we have a right to expect our publisher to do right in the market.
Re: Victoria on Opera
>> You could attempt to kill your lover (although, he/she will have to be someone unusual...younger, older, or famous), or your lover's wife/husband. Then you serve a couple years in prison, and then sell your tell-all book to PA.<<
No, in that case I'd sell it to iUniverse and change my name to Amy.
- Victoria
>> You could attempt to kill your lover (although, he/she will have to be someone unusual...younger, older, or famous), or your lover's wife/husband. Then you serve a couple years in prison, and then sell your tell-all book to PA.<<
No, in that case I'd sell it to iUniverse and change my name to Amy.
- Victoria
Re: Victoria on Oprah
I want to apologize for my mispelling of Oprah's name. I had a severe headache that morning. Forgive me.
David
PS, Heh, you pay setup fees with iUniverse, don't you? You wouldn't exactly be selling it then. I said PA because at least they give you the dollar.
I want to apologize for my mispelling of Oprah's name. I had a severe headache that morning. Forgive me.
David
PS, Heh, you pay setup fees with iUniverse, don't you? You wouldn't exactly be selling it then. I said PA because at least they give you the dollar.
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Dhewco said:
When that Amy sold her book to iUniverse she didn't pay the setup fee, and she got a 30,000 copy offset first run. Hardly a typical iUniverse author.
And now a blast from the past: http://www.profitablepublishing.net/
The only improvement I see? The site's colors are somewhat easier on the eyes.
The only improvement I see? The site's colors are somewhat easier on the eyes.
Profitable Publishing is gone, replaced by anthor "division" of Thornton Publishing: Books to Believe In: http://bookstobelievein.com/