Beta reader questions

[Glenn Parsons]

I will apologize ahead of time if this is not posted in the correct place. I haven't posted in a while because I was concentrating on finishing my mystery/thriller/horror novel "Night Fishing" which I posted about earlier in the year. I finally finished it about a month ago. A small celebration was in order and then I came down with a nasty intestinal virus and when that FINALLY went away, I caught RSV. BTW if you haven't had the RSV vaccination, I recommend it (assuming it's effective). The novel is about 112k words. It has sharks (I am a Marine Biologist, actually a Biological Oceanographer but some folks are not quite sure what that is), pirate treasure, a brilliant CDC agent, an intrepid marine biologist (not me), exploding people, a category-5 hurricane, and a sociopath terrorist. It has some science in it, maybe too much for the average person, but it has a lot of action, some "cliffhangers" and, as a warning, it is kind of gory in places. The storyline is like a Michael Crighton novel, not suggesting that I am that good, however.

I have software that takes care of most of the proofreading so that is not an issue for me. I need a beta reader that has experience in this genre. I am new to publishing fiction although I've published many scientific books and articles. Do folks generally pay for a beta reader? If so, does anyone have a recommendation for a person that might be good? Thanks for your consideration and have an Awesome Day!

 

[Lakey]

I'm moving your thread over to the Beta Readers room, which is mostly people seeking beta readers but does also house the occasional meta-question about beta readers. Once you get yourself up to 50 posts, you can post your request for a beta reader. Accordingly, I'd like to ask you to edit your own request out of your post here. Your questions are good though, and I'd like to keep them here.

To get to 50 posts, I encourage you to participate in various threads around AW. Join (or start) craft discussions, play word games, or offer critique to others who have posted in SYW. An advantage of this is that others in the community can get to know you a bit, which will make them more likely to respond to your own request for a beta reader. It also helps to post your opening pages in SYW (which you also need 50 posts to do) to give potential beta readers a taste of your work.

I think you'll find that most people do not pay for beta readers. Writing is in some ways a solitary activity, but most writers do best when they share thoughts and questions and feedback with others, which is why AW is so great for writers who don't yet know people they can do that with.

Here are a couple of resources for you:
AW FAQ entry on beta readers
An old but useful thread on what beta readers are and how to get them (please don't post to the thread as it really is quite long in the tooth).

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Woollybear]

I will apologize ahead of time if this is not posted in the correct place. I haven't posted in a while because I was concentrating on finishing my mystery/thriller/horror novel "Night Fishing" which I posted about earlier in the year. I finally finished it about a month ago. A small celebration was in order and then I came down with a nasty intestinal virus and when that FINALLY went away, I caught RSV. BTW if you haven't had the RSV vaccination, I recommend it (assuming it's effective). The novel is about 112k words. It has sharks (I am a Marine Biologist, actually a Biological Oceanographer but some folks are not quite sure what that is), pirate treasure, a brilliant CDC agent, an intrepid marine biologist (not me), exploding people, a category-5 hurricane, and a sociopath terrorist. It has some science in it, maybe too much for the average person, but it has a lot of action, some "cliffhangers" and, as a warning, it is kind of gory in places. The storyline is like a Michael Crighton novel, not suggesting that I am that good, however.

I have software that takes care of most of the proofreading so that is not an issue for me. I need a beta reader that has experience in this genre. I am new to publishing fiction although I've published many scientific books and articles. Do folks generally pay for a beta reader? If so, does anyone have a recommendation for a person that might be good? If not, are there individuals on the forum that might like to exchange manuscripts for reviewing. Thanks for your consideration and have an Awesome Day!

Hi Glenn,

Sorry to hear about the viruses and illness! Thank you for the reminder about the vaccine. And, it's nice to see you again.

2 cent feedback on your post: Mystery, thriller, and horror are three different genres and they have different conventions. For what it's worth, if you're looking for a beta reader in a specific genre, identify the best label for your work (and if you like you can add "with other-label elements"). If it's Crichtonesque, you probably wrote a thriller with some elements of horror. Crichton, as a comp author, then covers your bases. But identifying the best primary genre will be useful as you seek other writers/editors to work with.

It's a little strange to see the genre listed as mystery/thriller/horror. It would be kinda like saying "I'm an epidemiologist/molecular biologist/biophysicist. I'm looking for other experts in my field to discuss ovoids in vertebrates." It kinda makes sense, but I would ask, which field is that?

So, nail down your genre, that's a piece of advice, take it or leave it.

As to your question, I've never paid for a beta reader but I know a guy who swears by the woman he hired. I think it's always hit or miss... someone might be interested in reading your work as described and then twelve pages into the manuscript realize it isn't what they expected at all and they never get back to you. Someone else might be a PITA and suggest you go in a wholly different way that doesn't align with your vision. Someone else might start attacking you verbally in their notes about the manuscript. And someone else might be fantastic and give actionable feedback.

Have you done any beta reading yourself? It's illuminating to go that route first, and see what sorts of things are floating around in search of readers. In my limited experience, it makes me take extra care with my own work before putting it out there.

And of course the advice from Lakey to get to fifty posts and drop the first three pages (1200 words or thereabouts) into Share Your Work is very good advice indeed. The feedback you get will be varied (which is informative as you consider what you need in a beta reader) and there may be issues in the first 1200 words that apply throughout your manuscript. Something like a lack of stakes, for example, or suboptimal scene structure, not grammar per se. If so, having that feedback before making the 'big ask' to a beta reader will help you and that future reader.

Have fun, good luck!

 

[Glenn Parsons]

I'm moving your thread over to the Beta Readers room, which is mostly people seeking beta readers but does also house the occasional meta-question about beta readers. Once you get yourself up to 50 posts, you can post your request for a beta reader. Accordingly, I'd like to ask you to edit your own request out of your post here. Your questions are good though, and I'd like to keep them here.

To get to 50 posts, I encourage you to participate in various threads around AW. Join (or start) craft discussions, play word games, or offer critique to others who have posted in SYW. An advantage of this is that others in the community can get to know you a bit, which will make them more likely to respond to your own request for a beta reader. It also helps to post your opening pages in SYW (which you also need 50 posts to do) to give potential beta readers a taste of your work.

I think you'll find that most people do not pay for beta readers. Writing is in some ways a solitary activity, but most writers do best when they share thoughts and questions and feedback with others, which is why AW is so great for writers who don't yet know people they can do that with.

Here are a couple of resources for you:
AW FAQ entry on beta readers
An old but useful thread on what beta readers are and how to get them (please don't post to the thread as it really is quite long in the tooth).

Good luck and have fun!

I just edited the request out. Thanks for pointing that out. Glenn

 

[Maryn]

FWIW, I've heard some sad and/or scary stories about paid beta readers not doing anything worth what they charge. I'm sure there are great ones, but I sure don't hear about them.

I expect you'll do better to cultivate friendly writers here who read in your general areas of interest, now that you feel more like yourself, and ask for a beta reader when you have the necessary posts. That means being a recognized frequent visitor to genre boards and whatever else interests you, so you'll be a familiar face.

It's always worth a mention to remind people hoping for a good beta read that what goes around comes around. If people see you're helping others (not necessarily as a beta reader--maybe you do multiple critiques instead) they're more likely to want to help you.

It also helps if you first post your first chapter, or opening scene, whatever's the right length, to the appropriate Share Your Work board so 1) members can help you make it the best it can be, and 2) people considering your beta request can bop over there and see what your writing is like.

 

[Glenn Parsons]

I'm moving your thread over to the Beta Readers room, which is mostly people seeking beta readers but does also house the occasional meta-question about beta readers. Once you get yourself up to 50 posts, you can post your request for a beta reader. Accordingly, I'd like to ask you to edit your own request out of your post here. Your questions are good though, and I'd like to keep them here.

To get to 50 posts, I encourage you to participate in various threads around AW. Join (or start) craft discussions, play word games, or offer critique to others who have posted in SYW. An advantage of this is that others in the community can get to know you a bit, which will make them more likely to respond to your own request for a beta reader. It also helps to post your opening pages in SYW (which you also need 50 posts to do) to give potential beta readers a taste of your work.

I think you'll find that most people do not pay for beta readers. Writing is in some ways a solitary activity, but most writers do best when they share thoughts and questions and feedback with others, which is why AW is so great for writers who don't yet know people they can do that with.

Here are a couple of resources for you:
AW FAQ entry on beta readers
An old but useful thread on what beta readers are and how to get them (please don't post to the thread as it really is quite long in the tooth).

Good luck and have fun!

Thank you so much! I will head over to SYW and look around for folks to assist.

 

[Glenn Parsons]

FWIW, I've heard some sad and/or scary stories about paid beta readers not doing anything worth what they charge. I'm sure there are great ones, but I sure don't hear about them.

I expect you'll do better to cultivate friendly writers here who read in your general areas of interest, now that you feel more like yourself, and ask for a beta reader when you have the necessary posts. That means being a recognized frequent visitor to genre boards and whatever else interests you, so you'll be a familiar face.

It's always worth a mention to remind people hoping for a good beta read that what goes around comes around. If people see you're helping others (not necessarily as a beta reader--maybe you do multiple critiques instead) they're more likely to want to help you.

It also helps if you first post your first chapter, or opening scene, whatever's the right length, to the appropriate Share Your Work board so 1) members can help you make it the best it can be, and 2) people considering your beta request can bop over there and see what your writing is like.

Thank you Maryn! I am going to explore SYW and see if I can identify material that I might be able to help with.

 

[Maryn]

(I love this attitude, for the record. Love it!)

 

[Glenn Parsons]

(I love this attitude, for the record. Love it!)

Maryn, Pardon my ignorance. Could you tell me where to find SYW? Thanks!

 

[CMBright]

Intro to SYW - for optimal experience for yourself and others before heading to
SYW - with genres nested inside

 

[Maryn]

Sure. But first, let's do a little something about that so-called ignorance: At the top of this and every board here, there's a link Forums. You click on it and can scroll down it to see all the forums on the site. Share Your Work is near the bottom of the list.

But if you're like many people who are fairly new here, you'll be sidetracked by other things that sound pretty interesting, until you realize you've been here eleven hours without eating.

Directly below and to the left of Forums is New posts, which will list only the posts that are new or have new replies since the last time you were here. Once you get comfortable with those two, your experience here will be a lot better. Just don't forget to eat!

Here's a direct link to Share Your Work, for convenience.

 

[Sage]

But if you're like many people who are fairly new here, you'll be sidetracked by other things that sound pretty interesting, until you realize you've been here eleven hours without eating.

Yeah, sure, people who are fairly new here...

 

[Glenn Parsons]

Hi Glenn,

Sorry to hear about the viruses and illness! Thank you for the reminder about the vaccine. And, it's nice to see you again.

2 cent feedback on your post: Mystery, thriller, and horror are three different genres and they have different conventions. For what it's worth, if you're looking for a beta reader in a specific genre, identify the best label for your work (and if you like you can add "with other-label elements"). If it's Crichtonesque, you probably wrote a thriller with some elements of horror. Crichton, as a comp author, then covers your bases. But identifying the best primary genre will be useful as you seek other writers/editors to work with.

It's a little strange to see the genre listed as mystery/thriller/horror. It would be kinda like saying "I'm an epidemiologist/molecular biologist/biophysicist. I'm looking for other experts in my field to discuss ovoids in vertebrates." It kinda makes sense, but I would ask, which field is that?

So, nail down your genre, that's a piece of advice, take it or leave it.

As to your question, I've never paid for a beta reader but I know a guy who swears by the woman he hired. I think it's always hit or miss... someone might be interested in reading your work as described and then twelve pages into the manuscript realize it isn't what they expected at all and they never get back to you. Someone else might be a PITA and suggest you go in a wholly different way that doesn't align with your vision. Someone else might start attacking you verbally in their notes about the manuscript. And someone else might be fantastic and give actionable feedback.

Have you done any beta reading yourself? It's illuminating to go that route first, and see what sorts of things are floating around in search of readers. In my limited experience, it makes me take extra care with my own work before putting it out there.

And of course the advice from Lakey to get to fifty posts and drop the first three pages (1200 words or thereabouts) into Share Your Work is very good advice indeed. The feedback you get will be varied (which is informative as you consider what you need in a beta reader) and there may be issues in the first 1200 words that apply throughout your manuscript. Something like a lack of stakes, for example, or suboptimal scene structure, not grammar per se. If so, having that feedback before making the 'big ask' to a beta reader will help you and that future reader.

Have fun, good luck!

Thanks for the advice, particularly on the genre and on beta reading. I was having difficulty deciding how to describe the novel. I like the

Hi Glenn,

Sorry to hear about the viruses and illness! Thank you for the reminder about the vaccine. And, it's nice to see you again.

2 cent feedback on your post: Mystery, thriller, and horror are three different genres and they have different conventions. For what it's worth, if you're looking for a beta reader in a specific genre, identify the best label for your work (and if you like you can add "with other-label elements"). If it's Crichtonesque, you probably wrote a thriller with some elements of horror. Crichton, as a comp author, then covers your bases. But identifying the best primary genre will be useful as you seek other writers/editors to work with.

It's a little strange to see the genre listed as mystery/thriller/horror. It would be kinda like saying "I'm an epidemiologist/molecular biologist/biophysicist. I'm looking for other experts in my field to discuss ovoids in vertebrates." It kinda makes sense, but I would ask, which field is that?

So, nail down your genre, that's a piece of advice, take it or leave it.

As to your question, I've never paid for a beta reader but I know a guy who swears by the woman he hired. I think it's always hit or miss... someone might be interested in reading your work as described and then twelve pages into the manuscript realize it isn't what they expected at all and they never get back to you. Someone else might be a PITA and suggest you go in a wholly different way that doesn't align with your vision. Someone else might start attacking you verbally in their notes about the manuscript. And someone else might be fantastic and give actionable feedback.

Have you done any beta reading yourself? It's illuminating to go that route first, and see what sorts of things are floating around in search of readers. In my limited experience, it makes me take extra care with my own work before putting it out there.

And of course the advice from Lakey to get to fifty posts and drop the first three pages (1200 words or thereabouts) into Share Your Work is very good advice indeed. The feedback you get will be varied (which is informative as you consider what you need in a beta reader) and there may be issues in the first 1200 words that apply throughout your manuscript. Something like a lack of stakes, for example, or suboptimal scene structure, not grammar per se. If so, having that feedback before making the 'big ask' to a beta reader will help you and that future reader.

Have fun, good luck!

Thanks so much! I had trouble deciding how to classify the novel. I like your idea of "Crightonesque (thriller) with elements of horror. That pretty much sums it up. If I can ever find the SYW forum, I'm going to offer my assistance. All the best! Glenn

 

[Glenn Parsons]

Sure. But first, let's do a little something about that so-called ignorance: At the top of this and every board here, there's a link Forums. You click on it and can scroll down it to see all the forums on the site. Share Your Work is near the bottom of the list.

But if you're like many people who are fairly new here, you'll be sidetracked by other things that sound pretty interesting, until you realize you've been here eleven hours without eating.

Directly below and to the left of Forums is New posts, which will list only the posts that are new or have new replies since the last time you were here. Once you get comfortable with those two, your experience here will be a lot better. Just don't forget to eat!

Here's a direct link to Share Your Work, for convenience.

Found it. I went to that very long list and never made it to the bottom. Thought I was in the wrong place. Thanks

 

[Maryn]

And you didn't get lost in any intriguing threads on the way? Nerves of steel, Glenn!

 

[Unimportant]

Some folks do find stellar beta readers on Fivrr, or so I've read, so it can't hurt to ask the membership if they've had any great experiences with someone they've hired to beta read within your particular subgenre (which as woollybear noted probably needs to be more clearly defined), and to note your budget.

There are also editors for hire who will do developmental editing for a fee, but the good ones run well into four figures.

If this is your first time getting critique on any aspect of your writing, @Glenn Parsons, I agree with the three upstream commenters that it'd probably be your best bet to first get some feedback on your opening pages in Share Your Work (or even post your first three sentences or first 200 words, which don't have a 50 post requirement, and you're also welcome to crit other people there). If there are any areas for improvement at the prose level, and even at the pacing level, people will be able to point those out, and you can then apply what you learn to the whole manuscript before you ask anyone to read the whole thing. Plus, Share Your Work is free, if you want it to be; if you find it useful, you're more than welcome to donate to Absolute Write and contribute to its running costs.

 

[goddessofgliese]

I hired a good number of betas back when I was working on my debut novel. Most of them were really helpful at pointing out the areas that needed improvement with early drafts. (For each draft, I hired different betas because I always wanted fresh sets of eyes.) However, when I had a really polished draft, most of them were only able to heap praise on my manuscript. Finally, I found someone who was able to give my MS just that little extra oomph before I moved toward querying. Back then, she only had 10+ reviews while most others had 100+ reviews. But I liked the reviews left by the writers. Almost all emphasized how insightful and in-depth her feedback was.

I liked her beta service so much that I recommended her to several writer friends who write SFF (which is her specialty.)

So yes, you can find great beta readers on Fiverr. But I recommend you read the reviews very carefully. Don't trust the ratings. 5 stars are very freely given on that site.

Of course, it would be great if you can find other writers to swap betas with. I just want to share my experience on finding paid betas if you are interested, or have no time for beta swap.