Questions about Ancient Greece

Atlantis · Apr 19, 2008

I'm rewriting the first scene of my novel Atlantis Reborn and have decided to flesh it out a little. The beginning of my book is set in ancient greece. It opens with Cleito, an eighteen year old girl, who is days away from becoming Poseidon's bride. Cleito was born with a brand on her arm marking her as his destined soul mate. Basically, I need to get my hands on some information about ancient greece and don't know where to look:

1. How old did women get married in ancient greece? is eighteen too old? too young? Poseidon gets her pregnant later on so I'm kinda relucant to lower her age even if it would make it more realistic to the time period.

2. Any information (or please god some diagrams) of ancient greek houses would be WONDERFUL! All I need is a basic lay out of a house that would belong to a rich family. In the first scene, in celebration of Cleito's marriage to Poseidon (in the book Cleito's parents make a deal with Poseidon. In exchange for their daughter he will bless their village with 200 years of excellent fishing) a banquet is held. During the banquet Cleito runs upstairs (were ancient greek houses double story?) and tries to run away but is caught by Poseidon who decides to grab her a day early.

3. In families did mothers do anything to prepare their daughters for marriage? because if they did I would like to include it. Rituals, rights of passage, anything...

4. Any websites with pictures of clothing and furtniture would be great as well.

5. What would be a good place for Cleito's villiage to be? I have no idea. It would have to be a place that's dependant on fishing (at least in the ancient times) and (this isn't nesscary but would be a great touch) known for worshipping Poseidon.

I've been having trouble locating all this information. I've been told that the opening of my book doesn't feel like its set in ancient greece well enough. I believe someone on this fourm actually said something along the lines of "Cleito acts like she could switch on a light switch" I really want to change the opening to make it feel so realistic my readers would really feel that they are actually in ancient greece.

Penguin Queen · Apr 19, 2008

There are a number of books about (and actually titled) "Everyday Life in Ancient Greece", or things along those lines. (I know be cause I'm looking for the exact same thing about Rome.) Check your local library and / or Amazon.
I know there's a good book about the lives of women, specifically, in late Antiquity (ie end of Roman Empire), there is bound to be the same for Greece.
I would trust books more websites TBH, everybody can put anything on the interweb, and frequently does...

As for your question
2. -- I think 18 is way too old. 12-14 would be nearer the age of marriage for a girl, I think.

and
3. I have a faint memory that some of Sappho's poems deal with marriage rites/preparations etc. Obviously not detailed blow-by-blow accounts, but on the plus side, they're straight from the horses's mouth, a woman from ancient Greece speaking to you directly. And such glorious poems, too.

HeronW · Apr 19, 2008

Also what time are you centering on: Macedonia or the Greece afterwards, or the post-Roman conquered Greece.

FinbarReilly · Apr 19, 2008

Er...and also which city-state. Athens would vary greatly from Sparta, for example...

FR

Atlantis · Apr 19, 2008

HeronW said:
Also what time are you centering on: Macedonia or the Greece afterwards, or the post-Roman conquered Greece.

Okay, this is all stuff I want to make sure I get perfect this time around. The first half of the book is set in ancient greece around the time the city of Atlantis existed. The second half of the book is set 3,000 years later in 1990. That makes the first half of the book is set in 1010 BC.

Also what time are you centering on: Macedonia or the Greece afterwards, or the post-Roman conquered Greece.

In all of the rough drafts Cleito lived in Athens.

Izunya · Apr 19, 2008

Since Atlantis (and Poseidon) are myths, you should read the Odyssey, assuming you haven't already. It doesn't have a lot of details about houses and such (except making note of how very rich and generous the kings were. I've always wondered if part of the reason for the over-the-top gift-giving in the Odyssey is a subliminal message: Nobles are generous. You want to be generous. You want to pay the poet more.) What it does provide is a window into how the ancient Greeks thought. Hospitality, for instance, was incredibly important.

Penelope doesn't have much characterization besides "faithful and clever," though. If you want a strong Greek woman, read Lysistrata. Although, um, if you're under eighteen, disregard that last. Lysistrata is hilarious, but it's just a little bit R-rated.

Izunya

pdr · Apr 19, 2008

We have...

a useful list of resources for Ancient Greece down in the stickied Resources by Era thread in Genres: Historical nearly at the bottom of the board.

Mac H. · Apr 20, 2008

Atlantis said:
The first half of the book is set in ancient greece around the time the city of Atlantis existed. The second half of the book is set 3,000 years later in 1990. That makes the first half of the book is set in 1010 BC.

Sigh.

The only record of Atlantis makes it clear that it existed BEFORE Ancient Greece. In fact, in the original story it was an Egyptian telling the story as an example of a culture well before Greece.

If you want a feel for the technology of 1010BC, it is slap-bang in the middle of the Bible ... David & Goliath, Saul etc. (Different cultures, though)

There wasn't much education or information about Athens until about 800 BC, so you'll probably be winging much of it. You might want to base your 'typical life' on something a couple of hundred years later.

Google is your friend.

Mac

GJB · Apr 20, 2008

Life in Ancient Greece

Hello Atlantis,

The "Daily Life" series of books should get you everything you need and more. One of them is titled, DAILY LIFE IN GREECE AT THE TIME OF PERICLES, the other is, DAILY LIFE AT THE TIME OF HOMER. Book sellers such as Alibris (really a chain of book sellers and stores) will likely have multiple copies. I've used Alibris and have a couple of the daily life series and use them for my historicals. But do check other sources. It's very easy for others to make up what went on back then, 'cause in truth nobody really knows. Good luck. g.

Atlantis · Apr 20, 2008

Thanks for your help everyone! :hooray:

Atlantis · Apr 20, 2008

Izunya said:
Since Atlantis (and Poseidon) are myths

I'm not completely sure Atlantis is a total myth. Once upon a time people thought the city of Troy was a myth...then they found it. If you go to the British Museum they have a whole heap of weapons and armour from the battle of Troy for people to look at. Its not that much of a leap of the imagination to assume there was once a city on an island that got wiped out by a tidal wave. At least I don't think it is. Anyway, thanks for your suggestions!

Izunya · Apr 21, 2008

Atlantis said:
I'm not completely sure Atlantis is a total myth. Once upon a time people thought the city of Troy was a myth...then they found it. If you go to the British Museum they have a whole heap of weapons and armour from the battle of Troy for people to look at. Its not that much of a leap of the imagination to assume there was once a city on an island that got wiped out by a tidal wave. At least I don't think it is. Anyway, thanks for your suggestions!

True . . . in that case, look up Minoan Crete. IIRC, some people think it may have been the inspiration for the Atlantis stories as well as the Minotaur myth. They were an island civilization, pretty advanced for their time, and they traded with all sorts of people, including (possibly) the Egyptians. And then one of their islands blew up---a quick look at Wikipedia says that it was called Thera, so there's another research term. Of course, island + major volcanic eruption = bad news, and after that, the Minoan civilization pretty much collapsed.

Sounds familiar, no? All this was before the Mycenaean culture really got big; they're the ancient Greeks we're more familiar with. So the time you're talking about might well be before many of the familiar myths are written (or take place, if you have real Greek gods in your story). Especially Troy; that's a Mycenaean thing, IIRC.

Izunya

Edited to add: Or, if you like, Atlantis could have been an entirely different civilization that also got smashed by the Thera eruption. We're talking something like Krakatoa, here; it probably affected everyone in the area.

Higgins · Apr 22, 2008

Atlantis said:
Okay, this is all stuff I want to make sure I get perfect this time around. The first half of the book is set in ancient greece around the time the city of Atlantis existed. The second half of the book is set 3,000 years later in 1990. That makes the first half of the book is set in 1010 BC.

In all of the rough drafts Cleito lived in Athens.

1010 BC would be in the middle of the "Dark age" that came after the collapse of the Mycenean Palace system. Of course that is about the time (quasi mythic time) that Mr. Poiosedon and Ms. Athena had a competition of sorts to see who could give something of great value to the Athenians...and so on the Acropolis there was a salty spring from Poisedon and a very old and gnarled olive tree from Athena. Those were over away from where the Partheon eventually was built.

And as others have noted: Thera probably blew up in the Spring of 1628 BC (by tree-ring data)...and so Atlantis probably flourished about 700 years before the 1010 BC part of your story.

dirtsider · Apr 22, 2008

Also, try reading The Bull From the Sea and The King Must Die. They're based in ancient Greece about Theseus.

dear_swan · Jun 12, 2008

Herodotus "The Histories" would be an excellent resource for you. Herodotus was the "historian/gossiper" of ancient greece. he loved to spill the beans, so to speak.

Danger Jane · Jun 12, 2008

Atlantis said:
1. How old did women get married in ancient greece? is eighteen too old? too young? Poseidon gets her pregnant later on so I'm kinda relucant to lower her age even if it would make it more realistic to the time period.

Eighteen is a little old...men liked young women as this ensured virginity.

2. Any information (or please god some diagrams) of ancient greek houses would be WONDERFUL! All I need is a basic lay out of a house that would belong to a rich family. In the first scene, in celebration of Cleito's marriage to Poseidon (in the book Cleito's parents make a deal with Poseidon. In exchange for their daughter he will bless their village with 200 years of excellent fishing) a banquet is held. During the banquet Cleito runs upstairs (were ancient greek houses double story?) and tries to run away but is caught by Poseidon who decides to grab her a day early.

3. In families did mothers do anything to prepare their daughters for marriage? because if they did I would like to include it. Rituals, rights of passage, anything...

4. Any websites with pictures of clothing and furtniture would be great as well.

5. What would be a good place for Cleito's villiage to be? I have no idea. It would have to be a place that's dependant on fishing (at least in the ancient times) and (this isn't nesscary but would be a great touch) known for worshipping Poseidon.

I've been having trouble locating all this information. I've been told that the opening of my book doesn't feel like its set in ancient greece well enough. I believe someone on this fourm actually said something along the lines of "Cleito acts like she could switch on a light switch" I really want to change the opening to make it feel so realistic my readers would really feel that they are actually in ancient greece.

All this other stuff can be easily researched using google and a good library. The "Daily Life in the Time of" books are very good and probably available on about.com. Exercise your google-fu!

Marian Perera · Jun 13, 2008

Atlantis said:
I really want to change the opening to make it feel so realistic my readers would really feel that they are actually in ancient greece.

Description of the setting and of rituals isn't the only thing you need to keep in mind, then. The characters' thoughts and attitudes should also be more in line with those of Ancient Greece than with those of Modern America (eg. saying "love has to be earned" or "how many other women have there been?" which IMO don't seem like how women thought in the past). Writings by people who actually lived in the time period would help, as would good historical fiction. For instance, take a look at Colleen McCullough's The First Man in Rome to see how properly brought-up young women react to romance in a culture where their marriages are arranged.

Questions about Ancient Greece

Atlantis

Penguin Queen

Break the rules.

HeronW

Down Under Fan

FinbarReilly

Atlantis

Izunya

pdr

Mac H.

Board Visitor

GJB

Oh, what a ride

Atlantis

Atlantis

Izunya

Higgins

dirtsider

Not so new, really

dear_swan

Danger Jane

Marian Perera

starting over