Another Amazon Review Controversy

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AnneMarble

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Have you seen the latest controversy about abuse of Amazon reviews? This time, the anger isn't directed at bad reviews posted by enemies of authors. Instead, its directed at an author who gets fans to click "Report This" on negative (three stars and below) reviews so that those reviews are automatically pulled.

However, in related discussions about how the Amazon system can be fixed, I think people are going too far. Many people want to take away some of the features. For example, because of abuse,some people want to do away with the "Not Helpful" button. But many reviews are not helpful. I like having the option to click "Not Helpful" when someone gives a one-sentence one-star review that tells me nothing about the book, or when someone gives a glowing review that tells me nothing about the book. I also love giving "Not Helpful" ratings and reporting one-star reviews that complain that the reviewer never got the book. :rolleyes:

Also, some people now want to do away with the Comment feature on Amazon reviews. Yes, those are sometimes abused by authors, and in some areas (such as political books), there are silly flamewars. But more often, I've seen them used by readers to point out errors in reviews, ask questions of other reviewers, or even thank people for well-written reviews.

Finally, some people want to limit the reviews so that only people who bought the book through Amazon can post reviews. This would be hugely restrictive because most people still buy books in bricks and mortar stores, and their opinions can be just as valid and just as useful. Also, this would make it awfully difficult to find out anything about older out of print books as they are only available through Amazon Marketplace. Often reader reviewers on OOP books are the only source available, and I'd hate to see that limit put in place.

P.S. Yes, I know a lot of people argue that the Amazon reviews are useless and untrustworthy, that people don't buy books based on them, etc. But readers have admitted that Amazon reviews (both positive and negative ones) have helped them decide whether or not to buy the books. I also think that the reviews can be a great tool, and I'd hate to lose the reviews and associated features because of some abusesr.
 

DeleyanLee

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Finally, some people want to limit the reviews so that only people who bought the book through Amazon can post reviews.

Hmmm. Seems to me that as long as Amazon is the online source for a brick-and-morter store (Borders), that it seems like they're cutting their nose off to spite their face. Unless, of course, Amazon thinks that Borders doesn't count....
 

AnneMarble

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Hmmm. Seems to me that as long as Amazon is the online source for a brick-and-morter store (Borders), that it seems like they're cutting their nose off to spite their face. Unless, of course, Amazon thinks that Borders doesn't count....
I'm not sure if they're together anymore. I guess there was a breakup. :) Also, I'm not sure if Amazon has proposed this -- although some time ago, they did change the system so that you had to have a legitimate Amazon account tied in to a credit card in order to post reviews.
 

Gillhoughly

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Nothing's perfect, venues can and have been abused. The honor system doesn't work for the dinshonorable.

Without doubt, MacGillivray has behaved in a thoroughly unprofessional manner.

Her publisher and agent--if they have any sense--are going to call her on the carpet for this dropped brick.

She has issues over a 3-star review? So what if a fan got some stuff wrong or didn't "get" something? I've had reviewers giving away major plot points, but you won't catch me getting into a fight with any of them. D'OH!

The one thing you never EVER do is dis the people who are buying your books. They don't have to, yanno.

Anyone who buys one of my books is helping to keep me fed and the roof over my head. I never forget that.

Whether they liked or hated the book--damn skippy, I'm GRATEFUL!
icon14.gif
 

mscelina

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Amen, Gillhoughly. I go out of my way to express gratitude to ANYone who reviews my work--regardless of whether they liked the book or not. To do otherwise is just plain rude. For an author to purposely try to influence (or suppress) public opinion on her work is ridiculous.

All of those people who got their three star reviews pulled should go to my book and give 'em to me. I'll take 'em.
 

dgiharris

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I think the more people review a book, the more the 'true' rating comes out.

I'm not too sure about the Amazon review method, but I like the Yahoo review system for movies and have found that it is pretty accurate. So far, every single movie that i've wanted to see, the reviews have been extremely helpful as they are from THOUSANDS of people.

But I'm not sure if the Amazon reviews have these numbers. The best way to combat abuse would be to limit the amount of reviews a single person can submit i.e. one review per book. Similarly, if you limit reviews to users who have had an established account for a while, then you can cut down on people creating accounts in one day just to post a new review.

But with all that said, there hasn't been a system created that people can't figure out how to abuse.

Mel...
 

Sassee

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I don't actually know anyone who shops for books on Amazon... I look for them in the store or on the Barnes and Noble site (our company gets a discount through them, and they also list customer reviews). Of all my friends that read, I think I'm the only one that even shops for them online. Everyone else just goes to the store, and if they want opinions, they ask their other reader friends. /shrug

That said, getting huffy about online customer reviews is just silly. It's *usually* only the overly-passionate customers that post anyway, or so I've noticed. They either really really liked it or they really really hated it. Middle of the road reviews are few and far between. I don't take much stock in them other than to see if there's an excessive amount of good or bad reviews.
 

AnneMarble

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It's always been my feeling that if you have to explain what you mean to someone, you didn't set it up clearly enough. And really, belittling the very people who buy your books is just a total WTF...
But surely you knew what I meant when I said that my characters "perambulated through antidisestablishmentarianism because of their misconceptions about redactories."
:D

Come to think of it... What did I just say?
:e2tongue:
 

Susan Gable

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But surely you knew what I meant when I said that my characters "perambulated through antidisestablishmentarianism because of their misconceptions about redactories."
:D

Come to think of it... What did I just say?
:e2tongue:

I dunno, but it sounded dirty, Anne. LOLOL!

Susan G. (just kidding!)
 

AnneMarble

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III

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I don't actually know anyone who shops for books on Amazon...

I do most of my book shopping on Amazon. I'll frequently go into a certain genre and filter for 5-star reviewed books to find new authors, then read through the reviews to help me decide if I want to make the purchase. I always read the professional and user reviews before purchasing any book to get a better feel for its appeal than I could get solely from the description on the back cover. If someone posts a poorly written, poorly reasoned review, or if their tastes are simply different than mine, that can also be a good indicator of how much merit I give their review.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Yeah, well, that's what the "Report This" and "Not Helpful" buttons were supposed to be for.

The question is, why aren't they working? Would amazon really delete a 3-star review that got reported, even if it wasn't breaking the rules?

The problem is, there seems to be no pattern to what Amazon will delete and what it won't. There are a few reviews that directly insult other reviewers, and I have reported them several times, and yet they're still there. I had my review of Battle Royale deleted, because it "encouraged or promoted bootlegging," apparently because I wrote the review before the movie had been release in the US.
 

AnneMarble

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The question is, why aren't they working? Would amazon really delete a 3-star review that got reported, even if it wasn't breaking the rules?
I think the three-star reviews were deleted because their software is automated, so if enough people click "Report Abuse," the review is deleted -- without any real human intervention. :rolleyes: On top of that, there is no system to alert the reviewer that this happened.

The problem is, there seems to be no pattern to what Amazon will delete and what it won't. There are a few reviews that directly insult other reviewers, and I have reported them several times, and yet they're still there. I had my review of Battle Royale deleted, because it "encouraged or promoted bootlegging," apparently because I wrote the review before the movie had been release in the US.
Aargh!
:e2smack:

Amazon reviews can be great, and they can be somethin' else. I read a few horror reviews today, trying to figure out what to get. One reviewer gave a book one star but then spent most of his time complaining that the reader is a shameless self-promoter who posts on-line a lot to get people to review his books. :rolleyes: It told me very little about the book. Some of his remarks in the comments were more helpful, but he seemed to think people were voting "not helpful" because they were fanboys. That's the kind of obnoxious negative review that probably does more to persuade people to buy the book.
:e2tongue:

Also, one thing has really been annoying me lately -- what I call "big ass assumptions" in reader reviews. Some reviewers seem to have this assumptions that if someone else agrees with them, then that person must have an agenda or bias. If someone didn't like a book they loved, it's because they're mean or an idiot. If someone liked a book they hated, it's because that person is an unthinking fanboy, or worse, the author or his friend or agent or neighbor. Never mind that there are dozens of reviews written in different voices. :tongue For example, I recently read a review that started with "Now that you have read the reviews herein written by the author's family, agent and publicist I hope you will take a minute to look at one from an impartial reader." What a jerk. Other than that, the review looked helpful, but I refused to click it as Helpful because he started out with the assumption that if you disagreed with him, you are related to the author.

Some people need to take a long hot bath before they're allowed to review. It might help them regain their perspective on life. ;)
 

Voyager

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Well, there goes 12 hours of my life I'll never get back. That was like watching a really short soap opera. Thanks a lot, Ann :tongue
 

mirrorkisses

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I don't think they should change anything except perhaps people abusing the "report this."
Does this mean that Amazon does not read the reported reviews? If they are reading them over, then human reason would be able to judge if it was legitimate to pull it.

Once my favorite author was plagiarized, quite blatantly. I made a point to tell the other fans on a website dedicated to her books to click the "report this" buttons for people who were writing angry reviews because she discovered the plagiarizing by this other writer. They were bashing the book just because she was protecting her rights.

I know this is a more reasonable way to use "report this" or "not useful," but I gave it as an example because these features also help fans protect an author when these sort of situations come up.
 

mirrorkisses

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ALSO, I think the best thing to do, as a writer, is to not read this sort of stuff. I know of a lot of published authors who have admitted that they don't read reviews.
 

benbradley

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I don't actually know anyone who shops for books on Amazon... I look for them in the store or on the Barnes and Noble site (our company gets a discount through them, and they also list customer reviews). Of all my friends that read, I think I'm the only one that even shops for them online. Everyone else just goes to the store, and if they want opinions, they ask their other reader friends. /shrug
I read and often rely on Amazon reviews even when I buy somewhere else (I buy from Amazon if 1. it's not on paperbackswap, and 2. it's the cheapest at http://bookfinder.com), mainly because there are likely to be more reviews on Amazon than anywhere else. I see the range of how many reviews gave it each of 1 to 5 stars, and read a sampling of reviews at each end of the spectrum. What was that popular YA/teen book that had 1,400 reviews, about 95 percent of them 5-star? I think I got a better feel for the novel by reading reviews in the other 5 percent.
That said, getting huffy about online customer reviews is just silly. It's *usually* only the overly-passionate customers that post anyway, or so I've noticed. They either really really liked it or they really really hated it. Middle of the road reviews are few and far between. I don't take much stock in them other than to see if there's an excessive amount of good or bad reviews.
The problem with an excessive amount of reviews on either end of the spectrum is these can be the result of hidden motives, but this can often be distinguished by actually reading some of the reviews (or even reading all of them if there's a small number, say 20 or fewer reviews).
The question is, why aren't they working? Would amazon really delete a 3-star review that got reported, even if it wasn't breaking the rules?

The problem is, there seems to be no pattern to what Amazon will delete and what it won't. There are a few reviews that directly insult other reviewers, and I have reported them several times, and yet they're still there. I had my review of Battle Royale deleted, because it "encouraged or promoted bootlegging," apparently because I wrote the review before the movie had been release in the US.
From what I've read in this thread, Amazon has the same problems with its reviews as do several online communities (ebay and AOL come to mind) with their forums: bad moderation, and it would cost too much to fix it. In the case of Amazon, I can imagine intolerable abuse: many members of a controversial group reporting positive reviews of a book critical of the group, and likewise reporting negative reviews of a book positive of the group. I've read stories where such a thing has happened, where group members attempted to destroy a newsgroup critical of the group.

But (to balance the thread...) there's this highly awaited (there were rumors about it for years) and famously self-published book by a famous millionaire-scientist with the grandiose title "A New Kind Of Science:"
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1579550088/?tag=absolutewritedm-20
He took a fairly "simple" phenomenon (Cellular Automa, if you've ever seen the computer program "life", that's basically what it is), and "studied" it for many years and wrote a huge book on it. Perhaps the most famous review is titled "A New Kind Of Review" (link to Amazon), where the reviewer totally mocks the book and the arrogance of the author. Shortly after the book came out I saw that review quoted in several places. In many ways I think it's "the perfect review."
 

Inky

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Because I live in Turkey, I'm an avid shopper on both Amazon and Barnes & Noble.com.
So too, my book is for sale from both these companies. Everytime I click on 'my' book to see if there are new reviews, I cringe while the page loads; breathe a sigh of relief when everything is still at 5 stars (whew!)--no author wants horrible reviews, I don't care how thick-skinned you are; however, delete those reviews, or attack the reviewer/customer? Uh, that would be tacky/rude. Besides, sometimes the negative can tell us what we're doing wrong and enable us to become better and better with each book. Now, just down right bashing? No, I think that should be deleted. Why? Some people enjoy being negative, just to be netative. Usually, when I'm reading through reveiws, I can pretty much tell when someone's just being ugly & will buy the book based on my own opinion of the synopsis....and of course, cover art. I know, isn't that terrible? I'm still a sucker for cover art.

And, actually, Amazon HAS gone ahead and set it up that you can only leave a review if you're a member AND have made purchases. I'm not sure I'm kosher with this. Like the OP said (? I think it was the OP), what if you buy books from the store, but want to post a review? It forces your hand to have to become an Amazon customer. I'm not sure if Barnes & Noble is set up this way, as I've never left a review on their site.
 
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