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solutionrs
03-12-2004, 06:13 AM
Does anyone out there know anything about C. Lee Nunn and AMerican Book?

Dear Rick;

We are pleased to tell you that your book is one of the
few we have selected from our great number of submissions
over this past 30 days. We are looking forward to publishing your book and working with you.

C. Lee Nunn
Director of Operations
operations@american-book.com

vstrauss
03-12-2004, 06:33 AM
See this alert:

www.sfwa.org/Beware/gener...l#American (http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/general.html#American)

Contact me directly if you have any questions.

- Victoria

James D Macdonald
03-12-2004, 12:06 PM
Much is explained in <a href="http://www.speculations.com/rumormill/index.php?t=316&show_all_topics=0" target="_new">this thread.</a>

absolutewrite
09-05-2004, 01:55 AM
The thread has been removed. Below is the warning posted by Victoria Strauss:

I've gotten over two dozen complaints about this publisher, and have a warning posted on Writer Beware. Complaints include publication delays, nonpayment of royalties, ordering difficulties, poorly produced books, harassment by the publisher--and heavy pressure on authors to buy their own books.

Author bookbuying, in fact, seems to be the main goal of this company. Some writers have reported that their assigned publicity person's main job seems to be persuading them to buy their books (1,000 seems to be the typically-suggested quantity), and the Author Handbook that's sent to writers, ostensibly a guide to the publishing process, is largely devoted to convincing writers that buying huge quantities of their books for resale and distribution to reviewers is a good investment.

ABP also charges a setup fee--in the last contract I saw it was $760.

- Victoria


Website: www.victoriastrauss.com
Writer Beware: www.writerbeware.com

DaveKuzminski
10-24-2004, 09:00 PM
Evidently, there's a new wrinkle taking place concerning this publisher. Apparently, there is a section in the contracts that penalizes authors to the tune of $10,000 for saying anything negative about ABPG. One author has stated to me that C. Lee Nunn is using that as a stick to force some of the authors to write disparaging comments about ABPG's critics. Those are then posted by C. Lee Nunn or one of her employees on forums to attack the critics. That tactic also sows confusion and distrust of some writers because it makes it appear that ABPG has real supporters.

AC Crispin
10-25-2004, 07:52 PM
If this woman had two brain cells to rub together, she'd get out NOW, while she still can. The evidence is mounting steadily.

Remember, Jim van Treese is serving thirty years for doing just about the same thing.

-Ann C. Crispin

keltora
10-27-2004, 12:33 AM
What saddens me is that a person who was running a conference where I was asked to be keynote speaker, contacted me last summer and told me she had sold her first mystery novel, and would I please give her a cover blurb. I did. I read the book and thought it was quite good. I then asked who the publisher was, and she told me American Book Publishing.

I'm waiting to see what happens now. On the one hand, I thought I should warn her, but since she has already signed the contract (which means she has already paid the fee), I fear I am too late.

pegsioux
10-30-2004, 03:11 AM
Thank you for your information on American Book Publishing for I just received their offer (includes refundable deposit clause) and contract. In my research, I could not find them listed anywhere and my attorney is reviewing their contract. Thanks again for I'm new to the publishing world as this is my first book.

James D Macdonald
10-30-2004, 04:33 AM
See if you can find anyone, anywhere, who's had their deposit refunded.

Go to your local bookstore; see if you can find any ABP books on the shelves.

Please, don't sell yourself short.

The only place a writer signs a check is on the back. Money flows toward the writer.

vstrauss
10-30-2004, 07:18 AM
And don't forget to check out the clause in the contract that says you're liable for $10,000 in damages if you say anything negative about the company (it's in the copyright and trademark infringement section, where you wouldn't expect to find it).

Or the reverse-accounted royalties that are cut in half if your book is sold through any dealer that requires discounts of more than 50% (which means any of the online vendors).

- Victoria

James D Macdonald
10-30-2004, 07:54 AM
I have to ask, pegsioux, is your lawyer familiar with publishing contracts? It's a specialty.

pegsioux
10-30-2004, 11:18 PM
My attorney is a very dear friend who I have informed of my findings and she is giving me her opinion to confirm my intuition. And, I did check the contract and yep on both accounts on the clause for $10,000 in damages and accounted royalties are cut if half if your book is sold through any dealer that requires discounts of more than 50%....thanks guys!

Cape2004
11-15-2004, 10:37 PM
Seems like PA have been the subject of an police investigation.

Unless I read that wrong--maybe its America House---but I think I read that at the SFWA Writer's Beware board.

vstrauss
11-15-2004, 11:49 PM
It's American Book Publishing that's been the subject of investigation. Different company.

- Victoria

durazno3
03-17-2005, 10:22 AM
Members,

I have been looking on this forum for information about ABP, has anyone worked with this outfit?

Galoot
03-17-2005, 10:34 AM
From their Author Information (http://www.american-book.com/authorinfo.html) page:
We may issue publishing contracts to talented writers who have not been published before or become accomplished in their writing career, and this contract may request a one-time deposit of $780 that is returned to the author the first quarter after the book has been formally released. The purpose of this deposit is to ensure long-term cooperation with a talented but possibly undisciplined author.No, the purpose of this deposit is to get money from the author rather than from the readers. Avoid them.

James D. Macdonald
03-17-2005, 03:23 PM
You won't find many ABP authors who'll say bad things about this publisher, because their contract includes a $10,000 fine for authors who speak against them.

ABPG, run by C. Lee Nunn, has no bookstore presence. Its contract is highly non-standard. They are, in fact, a vanity press with a very poor reputation even among vanity presses.

So far as I'm aware, no author has ever had that "deposit" returned.

Their promotion and marketing appears to consist of trying to convince the authors to buy thousands of copies of their own book.

American Book Publishing has their own thread over in the speculations.com rumormill (http://www.speculations.com/rumormill/?z=68579) in the "caveat scrivener" section. That's never a good sign.

victoriastrauss
03-17-2005, 07:30 PM
Writer Beware has posted this warning (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/general.html#American) about American Book Publishing.

- Victoria

CaoPaux
03-17-2005, 08:39 PM
*pinging for search engine*

American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee Nunn

HapiSofi
03-17-2005, 10:48 PM
*pinging for search engine*

American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee NunnCaoPaux, did you just say American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee Nunn? Because I could have sworn you said American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee Nunn. I was thinking of saying American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee Nunn myself.

CaoPaux
03-17-2005, 11:00 PM
:D

DaveKuzminski
03-17-2005, 11:01 PM
You both better rinse your mouths out. After all, you don't want to come down with anything contagious. ;)

CaoPaux
05-19-2005, 10:34 PM
Ya know, I just realized we don't have any mention of ABPG's "imprints". So, beware the following: *cue ominous music*

American Classic Books

American University & Colleges Press

American Book Business Press

Bedside Books

Millennial Mind Publishing

*dances off to update Index*

Aconite
05-19-2005, 11:53 PM
My goodness, just this morning I was thinking American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee Nunn, and I wondered to myself, "Now, why on earth would I be thinking American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee Nunn?" And then I came here and found out that I was not the only one thinking American Book Publishing Group ABP ABPG C. Lee Nunn. Wow. What are the odds?

kybudman
01-04-2006, 11:07 PM
Please excuse my ignorance, but I have a question.

P&E has some rather unflattering things to say about the American Book Publisners, and their imprints.

Yet, (I think!) I see no thread posted about them here. Anyone got any info on them?

And, most importantly, my search led me straight to PA. Are they the same?

Thanks for any info you might be able to provide me. No, I haven't submitted to them, I'm just researching them.

JonquilAries
01-04-2006, 11:14 PM
I was just about to make a thread asking this very same question, hehe. I think I remember seeing their name mentioned with PublishAmerica but I can't be too sure.

Aconite
01-04-2006, 11:14 PM
The Index at the top of the page lists this thread on ABP:
American Book Publishing Group (aka ABPG) (American Classic Books, American University & Colleges Press, American Book Business Press, Bedside Books, Millennial Mind Publishing) (C. Lee Nunn)
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=991

IIRC, there's also a thread on ABP at The Rumor Mill (http://www.speculations.com/rumormill/), in the Caveat Scrivener folder.


And, most importantly, my search led me straight to PA. Are they the same?
No. PA has a few things in common with ABP, though, including an absurd contract clause that imposes a fine in the thousands of dollars for each instance of speaking negatively of the company.

James D. Macdonald
01-05-2006, 01:49 AM
Anyone got any info on them?

They're a vanity press with no practical ability to sell books to the public.

Gabriele
02-10-2006, 06:21 AM
http://www.american-book.com/

It was discussed on the Forward Motion Writer's forum and since I didn't find a thread here, I thought I'd post it. :)

Maddog
02-10-2006, 06:31 AM
Hey, at least they're honest about their fees. No sneaky stuff.

Gabriele
02-10-2006, 06:41 AM
I sorta liked the sidekick at one dollar advances. Especially in context of their fees. :D

James D. Macdonald
02-10-2006, 07:09 AM
Their imprints include:

American Classic Books
American University and College Press
American Book Business Press
Bedside Books
Millennial Mind Publishing

This is C. (for Cheryl) Lee Nunn's outfit.

Gabriele
02-10-2006, 08:02 AM
Ah, there was a thread. Thank you for shoving mine around. :)

There's just too many scams to find them all. ;)

HapiSofi
02-10-2006, 09:00 AM
C. Lee Nunn is still an issue? I'd been under the impression that law enforcement already had that operation staked out on an antheap.

Michael_Riordan
05-13-2006, 08:35 AM
If you think you can reach a New York conglomerate, go for it. ABPG advised me in this fashion when I signed with them. They never deceived me about distribution and at the time I paid practically nothing (a small contractual fee), and for that pittance of a fee, I received the full complement of book production services. In short, I got everything I wanted out of this experience. And I was able to leverage my status as an author to book speaking engagements at book stores, universities, and libraries.

Vanity press is a pejorative term that serves a purely expressive function. This publisher in my opinion does not deserve the vanity nomenclature; it is simply not in the same class as those services that require authors to pay thousands of dollars for every aspect of book production.
Disgruntled authors who expected the J K Rowling treatment could force this label on ABPG and any of its imprints (for example, Bedside Books), but it only distracts from the fact the publishing industry itself is dysfunctional and has not found a way to separate the what from the chaffe when it comes to accepting and evaluating hundred page manuscripts from tens of thousands of would-be authors. I also find contemptible the idea that any book designated as a "vanity project" should be categorically dismissed as lacking in intrinsic value. There are some vanity books out there that are superior to books published by reputable publishers. But I do not consider Bedside Books a vanity press. Whatever contractual disputes and issues that have arisen in the past couple years with this publisher ... it has nothing to do with their status as a vanity press.

Michael

Aconite
05-13-2006, 08:39 AM
Hi, Michael. I hope you'll understand if we're a bit suspicious of someone who comes onto the board for the sole purpose of defending a questionable company, insulting us in the process. I especially hope you'll understand if we're suspicious because that's how C. Lee Nunn herself, under pseudonyms, has operated on several other boards.

James D. Macdonald
05-13-2006, 10:05 AM
I also find contemptible the idea that any book designated as a "vanity project" should be categorically dismissed as lacking in intrinsic value.

Luckily no one here has categorically dismissed vanity books, such as C. Lee Nunn's, as lacking in intrinsic value.

The problem with vanity books is that they have no practical distribution; the public doesn't see them. This is true of C. Lee Nunn's books. They aren't distributed, they aren't seen, they aren't bought.

The second problem is that the public rejects those that they do see, because while any one of them might be excellent, in the aggregate they stink on ice. That's because, like the books C. Lee Nunn publishes, they aren't chosen for literary excellence but rather because the author is able to pay the "small contractural fee." The fee is on the order of $700, isn't it? More than iUniverse, Xlibris, AuthorHouse, and many other vanities charge.

It's a libel on writers to say that they're disgusted with outfits like C. Lee Nunn's imprints (for example, Bedside Books) because they failed to get Rowling-rich. While most authors would like to earn money, few if any publish in order to lose money.

Tell me, does C. Lee Nunn still have that risable contract clause where she can fine an author $5,000 for telling the truth about ABPG? Has she ever tried to take anyone to court on that? Bet she hasn't -- because she wouldn't like what happened to her.

PVish
05-13-2006, 06:42 PM
You gotta love ABP's dig at PA here:
http://www.american-book.com/Articles/arnCompare.htm

I only read one ABP book (retail $22) that I borrowed from an acquaintance of the author. The plot of this novel involved a subject I was interested in. Apparently, neither the writer nor the editor knew much about this subject. I think I counted at least 20 content errors. Conclusion: Among other problems, ABP doesn't hire a fact-checker.

Also, this author bought a thousand of her own books, but 500 of those were to send to reviewers across the country.

ABP is probably the only company that makes PA look good by comparison.

Jaws
05-13-2006, 07:00 PM
I almost don't know where to start here, as "Mr Riordan"'s screed is divorced from reality. Thus, dealing with the second paragraph only…

Vanity press is a pejorative term that serves a purely expressive function. This publisher in my opinion does not deserve the vanity nomenclature; it is simply not in the same class as those services that require authors to pay thousands of dollars for every aspect of book production.A "convicted felon" is a "convicted felon," whether it's for barratry or homicide. And, conversely, a "teacher" is a "teacher"; we don't say that a parochial-school teacher is any less a teacher because she's not making the same salary as some tenured teacher in the Barrington, Illinois public schools. There are indeed differences of degree; in this context, they are not so great as to create differences in kind. Ms Nunn's operation is not as much of a burden on authors as was, say, Northwest Publishing, Inc. (to name a nearly local vanity-press operation that already has resulted in felony convictions and one of the most scathing refusals of bankruptcy discharge that I've ever read).
Disgruntled authors who expected the J K Rowling treatment could force this label on ABPG and any of its imprints (for example, Bedside Books), but it only distracts from the fact the publishing industry itself is dysfunctional and has not found a way to separate the what [sic] from the chaffe [sic] when it comes to accepting and evaluating hundred page manuscripts from tens of thousands of would-be authors.This is a complete non sequitur. That the publishing industry is dysfunctional is true, but beside the point; that it cannot separate the wheat from the chaff is true, but beside the point; that authors dream of "the J K Rowling treatment" (hmm… I wonder how many rejections she got?) is true, but beside the point. The point is deception, and although there's plenty of deception to go around in the publishing industry, that's not an excuse for the different variety of deception inherent in Ms Nunn's business practices.
Then there's the whole separate question of what the "J K Rowling treatment" is, but even beginning to probe that question would require far more patience than I have.
I also find contemptible the idea that any book designated as a "vanity project" should be categorically dismissed as lacking in intrinsic value. There are some vanity books out there that are superior to books published by reputable publishers.I don't trash books because they came out through a vanity press. There are a half-dozen-or-so decent books of which I'm aware from the last 75 years that were published through vanity presses. Instead, my target is the deception involved in the vanity press model, and as a corollary only the even-lower-than-usual probability that the product or that deceptive process has much real worth. (And yes, I am practically begging someone to quote the notorious list of purported vanity-press success stories so I can trash it.)
But I do not consider Bedside Books a vanity press.And I do not consider that the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington got there through a free and fair election. Either time. That doesn't make labelling him "President of the United States" inaccurate. As a former federal officer myself, I'm somewhat more qualified to comment on whether that election was valid than Mr Riordan is to comment on the publishing industry.
Whatever contractual disputes and issues that have arisen in the past couple years with this publisher ... it has nothing to do with their status as a vanity press.Correct, in a sense; neither does the satisfaction of individual customers, or presence of shills, or anything else. "Vanity press" is a description of the business model, which can be hidden under whatever contractual kerfluffery one wishes. I'll freely admit that American Book's contract isn't even the most deceptive vanity press contract that I've seen (even in the last ten minutes, as I just had another PA inquiry).

victoriastrauss
05-13-2006, 07:30 PM
The second problem is that the public rejects those that they do see, because while any one of them might be excellent, in the aggregate they stink on ice. That's because, like the books C. Lee Nunn publishes, they aren't chosen for literary excellence but rather because the author is able to pay the "small contractural fee." The fee is on the order of $700, isn't it?Yes, but the real money is in pressuring authors to buy their own books in bulk quantities (500-1,000 is the amount suggested). The Author Guide the company hands out to new authors is largely devoted to persuading them that buying their own books is a good way to get recognition and make money.

Tell me, does C. Lee Nunn still have that risable contract clause where she can fine an author $5,000 for telling the truth about ABPG? Actually it was $10,000. But the most recent contract I've seen (from a few months ago) no longer had that clause.

Recently, C. Lee had one of her shills contact me, as she sometimes does, with a fake request for information. I blogged about it (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2006/05/victoria-strauss-someone-out-there.html).

- Victoria

Kasey Mackenzie
05-16-2006, 02:47 AM
Vanity press is a pejorative term that serves a purely expressive function. This publisher in my opinion does not deserve the vanity nomenclature; it is simply not in the same class as those services that require authors to pay thousands of dollars for every aspect of book production.

What makes a vanity press a vanity press is not how much you pay to get published. It's that you have to pay to get published. There's little to no quality control in vanity publishing. You _might_ have the best novel ever written, but the chances of that in vanity publishing are so slim that few people bother to take the risk of investing their time and money in reading vanity-published books. Except, of course, those trusty 70 family members and friends who can be counted on to pluck down their hard-earned cash for the typically overpriced vanity-published books.

Bo Sullivan
01-20-2007, 01:05 AM
Does anyone know anything about american-book.com based in Utah, America?

They have invited me to send my new manuscript to them.

Any advice?

Barbara

DeadlyAccurate
01-20-2007, 01:13 AM
There's a thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=991)in the index about them.

The second post is by Victoria, with a link to the Writer Beware warning.
http://www.sfwa.org/Beware/general.html#American

JulieB
01-20-2007, 01:15 AM
Just beat me to it. Check P&E as well:
http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/peba.htm

Bo Sullivan
01-20-2007, 01:32 AM
Is it really the same company?


This is what they sent me:

Dear Barbara;
Thank you for contacting us about submitting your manuscript.
It does sound interesting to us and we would like to invite you to formally submit it so we can have an editor review it for a possible book publishing contract.
Here are the submission instructions and questions, please answer next to or below each question in as deep a detail as possible:
Submission Preparation
Please follow these instructions closely in submitting
your book proposal and manuscript to us. This will ensure
that your proposal will be routed to the appropriate
editor. Any deviation from this format and your manuscript
may not be reviewed.
You may submit it "as is" with your current fonts, line
spacing etc. as long as it is saved in a .txt or .doc or
.rtf format, and not sent as a zipped file. Please do not
send in other formats such as Word Perfect etc..
Copyright Protection
All writers worry about protecting their work. Rest
assured that we will be handling your manuscript
submission responsibly and with confidentiality. If we do
not accept your book for publishing, we will destroy this
submission from our databases.
To add yet another level of protection, although not
necessary, place a copyright notice (copyright 2004 your
first and last name) at the bottom of your last page.
Should we accept your book for publishing, we will assist
you in registering and filing your copyright with the
Copyright Office of the Library of Congress.
Submission Information
Please complete your responses to the following as a
preface at the beginning of your manuscript file:
Author's Name:
Proposed Book Title:
Daytime Phone:
E-mail address:
Physical Address:
Your Age:
Manuscript Word Count?
(Authors please note that we do not accept any of the
following types of books; cookbooks, coffee table books,
poetry, erotica, hate or books full of obscenities,
children's books with color illustrations, (Harry Potter
type OK) , art, photo or design books.)
Please state which of the following categories apply to
your book:
Fiction or Non-fiction?
Academic, Biography, Business, Comedy/Satire, Fantasy,
Historical, How to.., Mystery, Romance, Science Fiction,
Self Help, Spiritual, Thriller, Young Adult, Other?
Who referred you to American Book Publishing?
If it was a search engine or web site please tell us which one?
If your book is fiction, does it have an inspirational theme or content, or end in a positive note or elaborate on a moral or ethical theme? Please explain in detail:
Describe or summarize your proposed book in 2 or 3
paragraphs:
What is the anticipated target market for your book?
How would you promote your book to this target audience?
(As a publisher we are looking for books that will be
profitable not only for us but also for the author.)
In what other ways will you help promote the book?
Will it appeal outside the usual trade bookstore channels?
Are there competing titles and other books currently on
the market on your same or similar topic? How and why is
your book different? Does your proposed book fill a need
or a niche presently open?
Please identify the competition and tell us how your book
will surpass that competition because of the added
material or new slant it offers.
Please tell us about your career experience and
educational credentials as well as your experience in the
area of your subject and with the media, for example,
media article/column publishing, writing, speaking and teaching
experience.
Please provide deep details about your book publishing
history and provide book sales figures to date.
Have you received any awards or special recognition for
your writing?

How many hours do you estimate you spent in writing this
manuscript?

Over what period of time?

Will your book contain common 4 letter words,
disrespectful use of names of Deity,
scenes that would be considered anything worse than a "PG"
rating, ethnic or cultural stereotyping, negative
commentary or other language that may not be suitable for
all readers?
If the answer is yes, would you be willing to work with
your editor here to make appropriate word or phrase
substitutions and prepare it according to our high so that
it is not offensive and qualifies for the widest
book sales distribution possible?
Will your book contain technical or other specialized
language or diagrams?
Does your book contain photos or any other types of
illustrations? Can you have them scanned and saved into a
.gif or .jpg file and sent as attachments to email?
If so please embed them as .tiff or .gif or .jpg files in
this document according to the order you would have in
your book.
Should we accept your manuscript, how much time could you
devote to working with our book marketing department to
promote your book?
Is this a multiple submission, if so, to what other publishers specifically?

Are there any negative or derogatory statements (true or fictional) towards any
real organizations, companies, or living individuals named in your manuscript?

If there are, please explain in detail what defenses could be used in
any possible libel or defamation suits?

What skills or contacts do you have that may help in the
marketing of your book?


I have been ripped off once in the publishing industry and it won't happen again.

Barbara

JerseyGirl1962
01-20-2007, 01:51 AM
Duped,

It's the same one. Check this woman's travails with ABPG (http://www.praize.com/cgi-bin/members/blog.cgi?userid=9990213904245&targetdate=2006_1_19&monthyear=Jan_2006). (She even states something like, "C. Lee Nunn, out of Utah...")

~JerseyGirl

DeadlyAccurate
01-20-2007, 02:08 AM
Even before I looked it up in the index, just looking at their home page sent up red flags. Look at it. It's not about the books they have for sale; it's about getting published with them. They're not out to sell books to readers.

JulieB
01-20-2007, 08:38 PM
That list of questions freaks me out. Which search engine did you find them in?

Does it contain four letter words? Yeesh. Here's the one that got me:


Are there any negative or derogatory statements (true or fictional) towards any real organizations, companies, or living individuals named in your manuscript?

If there are, please explain in detail what defenses could be used in
any possible libel or defamation suits?

Run away! Run away!

zizban
01-20-2007, 09:02 PM
Companies like this, like PublishAmerica prey on authors who think the publishing world is out to get them and that there is some conspiracy out there to keep new writers out of print. The fact is, every publishing house is looking for talent, all time. If your work is good enough, someone will buy it. Many good writers started out in the slush pile (Steven Brust for one).

James D. Macdonald
01-21-2007, 12:19 AM
There's a thread devoted to C. Lee Nunn (http://www.speculations.com/?t=68579) over at Speculations.com. It'll fill you in on a lot of the background on her vanity press.

James D. Macdonald
01-22-2007, 03:54 AM
Here's a typical C. Lee Nunn sockpuppet post: http://www.speculations.com/message.html?m=68880

Ask yourself if you want to work with this person and send her money.

victoriastrauss
01-22-2007, 05:07 AM
C. Lee Nunn appears to have retreated behind someone named Nathan Fitzgearl, who may be real or may be an alias (because I have no doubt it's still her running the company). At any rate, her name doesn't appear in company correspondence any longer.

- Victoria

Gravity
01-22-2007, 06:08 AM
Here's a typical C. Lee Nunn sockpuppet post: http://www.speculations.com/message.html?m=68880

Ask yourself if you want to work with this person and send her money.

Unk: that post is gone, baby, gone...

James D. Macdonald
01-22-2007, 07:31 AM
Here's the text:


Message 68880 was posted by Mystery Guest on 2004-01-22 22:16:04.
Such a hostile and intimidating discusion page to new posters!

Anyone that doesn't bond and agree with the handful of miserable unsuccessful cancelled authors here, those that try to pass false rummors off on unsuspecting writers, either gets bombarded with questions and attacks or theatened with legal action?

Who would ask for or invite trouble like that, why would Bruce or Victor or anyone else now chance a 2nd or a new positive post when Andrew may follow through on his threats of legal trouble and investigation for merely putting some accuracy into the page with facts that can be easilly checked?

No one reading the attacks on Bruce and Victor and the threats of legal harasment by Andrew for a simple post will now want to post here or belive any thing they say for that matter.

No doubt Andrew or Dave or one of their fake e-mail names will verbally attack me here or unseen to you, by e-mail, or say I'm not me, or didn't know what I was writing about.

Call me crazy, but I admire Victor's and Bruce's courage to make a stand and post where the rules are be negative or be attacked but post they did anyway, I'll bet there are hundreds of surfers that find this page but don't post because of the heavy intimidation. Perhaps they are not looking for a fight or have productive things to do unlike the others that post here daily. Its obviously a one sided hostile page of rumors to try to damage the company mainly from those that were cancelled.

Like Victor I've came to this page to learn more about the company. After reading it, I decided to check with the Better Business Bureau, Victor is correct the company is clean and has a positive rating. Anyone can call the Salt Lake BBB and verify this.

After reading these posts its clear why the comapny had to cancel publishing a few authors, for example Andrew. I'm certain that almost any publishing company would also quickly cancel such a threatening bully and am not surprised ABP did so.

It appears that Andrew and Dave or a few other cancelled authors posting here just want revenge for the company not making them rich or famous.

I decided to do some more checking, I followed Dave's suggestion and looked into the Utah League of Writers. I guess he didn't really expect that anyone would take the time or go right to the top.

They have a web site at www.luwrite.com Kathy Jones is the current president and she published with ABP her award winning novel "River of Stones". Recently she submitted her 2nd novel to them. She invited Ms. Nunn to speak again at their last annual Round Up convention after Ms. Nunn was well recieved when she spoke the prior year on the program with Mary Higgens Clark, was unable to accept this time. There were no negative posts about her or the company on their discussion board.

Next I checked with Utah information and there is a Victor Liberty listed. Yes of course Victor is real and even brave enough to give his real name, his publishing history and correct e-mail address when he introduced himself. Now no one would dare do such a thing again under the intimidation and threats by Dave and Andrew.

I have no reason to come back to this page, I'll probably regret even posting this and be harrased for it, maybe even have to go to court if Andrew has his way and follows up on his threats. If anyone sends me hate mail for this I won't open it or read it. I'm going to go ahead and submit to ABP and some other quality publishers. I'm impressed with ABP and not afraid to say it, I read what many of their authors had to say about their services on their web site and e-mailed some and they confirmed their statements.

If ABP offers me the best contract, I'll accept it and go with them.

Don't Sue Me

CaoPaux
02-14-2007, 09:14 PM
FYI - This publisher has been given "two thumbs down" by Writer Beware:

http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/02/happy-valentines-day-from-writer-beware.html

Songweaver
02-14-2007, 10:48 PM
Here is a recent communique I received from ABP in regards to their Returnable Deposit Program:

"The problem we have found is not with the manuscripts we receive, but with the many new talented and inspiring authors that come to us through the Internet with out professional representation or experience that don't follow through with us as we need them to. We invest about 10 times the deposit in the various services, production, distribution and marketing process, but have found these authors without experience or agents often burn us, so we need to know they have a small incentive to stick it out and keep in communication and work with us. The ones that have burned us the worst are the ones that promised us they would follow through and we could count on them. Once we set up the returnable deposit program, we did not have that problem any longer. So our policy is to stay with it, as it makes a big difference in the completion of the books. Other traditional publishers have had this same problem, that is why they don't even bother with new authors or authors without agents, and least we offer a few of them an option."

victoriastrauss
02-14-2007, 10:51 PM
In other words, "If we're already into you for $700, you're more likely to throw good money after bad and buy 1,000 copies of your own books when we start pressuring you to do so."

- Victoria

James D. Macdonald
02-14-2007, 10:58 PM
Other traditional publishers have had this same problem, that is why they don't even bother with new authors or authors without agents....

This alone is enough to tell you that C. Lee is lying.

AC Crispin
02-15-2007, 12:24 AM
Let's hope she has a really intense reaction to finding out ABP is at the top of the "Two Thumbs Down" list.

Maybe she'll charge up out of Tokyo Bay and get zapped by one of those high-tension wires this time.

-Ann C. Crispin

Roger J Carlson
02-15-2007, 01:08 AM
Here is a recent communique I received from ABP in regards to their Returnable Deposit Program:

"The problem we have found is not with the manuscripts we receive, but with the many new talented and inspiring authors that come to us through the Internet with out professional representation or experience that don't follow through with us as we need them to. We invest about 10 times the deposit in the various services, production, distribution and marketing process, but have found these authors without experience or agents often burn us..."How many new authors are not pathetically anxious to follow through with their publisher? I know I'd have to hold myself back from emailing them daily. Of course the key is the "as we need them to" phrase. They need authors to send them ever larger checks.

kristenb
04-09-2008, 09:05 PM
I am trying to find out some more information before I sign a copyediting contract with ABP. I've read the posts about the difficulties authors have had with the company. Any ideas where I could find more information on the editing side?

DaveKuzminski
04-09-2008, 09:07 PM
I am trying to find out some more information before I sign a copyediting contract with ABP. I've read the posts about the difficulties authors have had with the company. Any ideas where I could find more information on the editing side?

It's just as bad.

Roger J Carlson
04-09-2008, 09:08 PM
I am trying to find out some more information before I sign a copyediting contract with ABP. I've read the posts about the difficulties authors have had with the company. Any ideas where I could find more information on the editing side?I'm sorry, but after 3 full pages and 60 posts, what more could you need?

ETA: Maybe I should expand here. What makes you think that a "publisher" that has the kind of business practices reported here would be any different in another area of their business?

cethklein
04-09-2008, 10:29 PM
What is there to be unsure of? This publisher is a scam, it's been detailed very clearly here. Why would you even consider signing a cxontract with someone after seeing everythig in this topic?

Gravity
04-09-2008, 11:00 PM
What is there to be unsure of? This publisher is a scam, it's been detailed very clearly here. Why would you even consider signing a cxontract with someone after seeing everythig in this topic?

:::sob::: "Because I wanna be published, dammit!!"

There, in one terse sentence, is the reason scam companies flourish, and will continue to do so. Their pool of would-be marks is wide, deep, willfully blind, and unending.

IceCreamEmpress
04-10-2008, 01:56 AM
I am trying to find out some more information before I sign a copyediting contract with ABP. I've read the posts about the difficulties authors have had with the company. Any ideas where I could find more information on the editing side?

Why do you think they would deal professionally with their employees/contractors, given the many reports of appallingly unprofessional behavior toward their clients that are detailed here and elsewhere?

Rrex
04-23-2008, 10:45 PM
I fell prey to ABP's slick dog & pony show. Needless to say, the whole experience has been one drawn out (and costly) nightmare. Others are interested in my work and I want out of my contract. Has anyone else broken free of their evil clutches? How did you do it? Any experiences or advice would be most welcome.

Thanks.

Carol Smith
09-16-2009, 05:37 AM
Beware American Book Publishing. After unpleasant experience, I retrieved control of my book... however, ABP is still advertising that book on Amazon as one of theirs and taking names for a list when published. This will cause confusion when the legal book appears on Amazon.

AC Crispin
09-16-2009, 07:46 AM
This publisher has been on Writer Beware's "Thumbs Down" publishing list since the list was first created.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com

rubym357
04-09-2010, 06:52 AM
Hi, I'm a newbie and need some advice. There's a online friend I have by the name of Tprinces (Ruthie, her real name) and she was one of the kid dupes (she's 18) of C. Lee Nunn got who "published" her novella. This is one of her most recent videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/Tprinces#p/a/u/1/V9M6lOhEOXU) concerning her book and the reality of the fact she has to sell her books her ATTORNEY mother has paid for. I've emailed her trying to steer her clear being that I'm against all forms of self-publishing (and I'm a hobby writer- that includes fanfics- with no real publishing ambition, hey I'm a realist) which included links to AW's site, blog, and this message board. Do you think one of the pros could drop her a line just in case if something goes catastrophically wrong as I've read by a few writers who have been crushed by this demonic bitch? Thanks for reading!

JulieB
04-09-2010, 05:57 PM
Hi, welcome to AW!

Why don't you have your friend drop by?

Here is some info at Writer Beware (http://www.sfwa.org/for-authors/writer-beware/alerts/#American) that may be of use.

We're happy to be of help, but that video doesn't give a lot of details.

victoriastrauss
04-11-2010, 07:49 PM
Please feel free to give your friend Writer Beware's contact information: beware@sfwa.org. We'd be happy to hear from her.

- Victoria

Kewii
07-16-2010, 11:58 AM
So I know this thread is a couple of months old, but I stumbled across someone's blog post and thought it should be posted here.

It's from a writer who decided to publish with American Books. She was able to negate the clause that stops most authors from posting about their experiences (with some lawyer trickery).
http://hubpages.com/hub/ASPIRING-AUTHORS-BE-AWARE-OF-AMERICAN-BOOK-PUBLISHING

I hoped it's ok to bump this up, I just thought it would be nice for someone to read a personal experience if they were thinking of going with this publisher..

CaoPaux
07-16-2010, 06:51 PM
Even the most ancient BR&BC thread is open to bumping with new information. :)

(Well, except for locked threads, of course. If anyone has new info for those, PM me and I'll either slip it in, or open it again.)

jim baugh
06-09-2011, 05:58 PM
I read the blog, very interesting.

I as well was sent a contract from ABP, I did not sign with them.

Just to recap in case anyone out there is looking for a publisher. If a pub ask you for ANY money for ANYTHING, run. It is a scam, vanity, etc.

HOWEVER, there are many type of books that are a good fit for such publishers. Grandma’s cookbook or something like a history piece, or a marketing book related to artist, etc, etc. There are a lot of books that fit into this category which is fine.

BUT---- If you have a commercial MS that is intended for trade, entertainment purpose, in other words, for sale to anyone in the world, if a Pub ask you for any money at all, you’re talking to the wrong Pub. Keep looking.

Be careful as well. I had met with publishers who I told up front I would only be interested in a traditional type of deal. No cash from the author at all. Still--- the Publisher continued to press for a publishing contract, book review, etc, and in the end, ask for fees.

I of course declined, then later signed with another publisher.

So be careful out there, take your time, and don’t get scammed. Also, if a pub is playing to your ego, beware.

Just be careful and don’t sign anything that is to long term and requires funds from the author. I also would not sign anything that gave exclusive rights forever to the publisher.

Go as short as term as possible

Anyway, just passin on the info.

Jim Baugh
Jim Baugh Outdoors TV
www.jimbaughoutdoors.com (http://www.jimbaughoutdoors.com/)
"HOOKED" to be published fall 2011

Christyp
10-19-2011, 10:41 PM
But indicated we worked together. I did some research on this company, and they have endless complaints, even ask authors for a deposit until they sell 500 books!

Anyone else have these people contact then on FB or anywhere else? Why would they tag me as an employee/coworker? I've never even contacted them!

Stlight
10-20-2011, 12:40 AM
Here you go

<snipped>

From the Bewares and background check index, always a good place to look.

Christyp
10-20-2011, 01:57 AM
Here you go

<snipped>

From the Bewares and background check index, always a good place to look.

There was no link. I keep trying to find them on AW but I've haven't had any luck. I did find them on Writer Beware, though.

Stacia Kane
10-20-2011, 02:23 AM
There was no link. I keep trying to find them on AW but I've haven't had any luck. I did find them on Writer Beware, though.


If a straight Forum Search doesn't work--which, to be fair, searching for "American" or "Publishing" is going to bring up a TON of results, so yeah, not necessarily the best way to find a company like this one--you can always check the Index to Agents, Publishers, and Others (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792); it's a sticky thread here in Bewares.

Then in the original Index post, just click "Publishers & Online Markets," (assuming you're looking for a publisher, of course, because the Index lists all the threads in B&BC) and a new tab/window will open, with all of them listed in alphabetical order. And there you go! :)

triceretops
10-20-2011, 02:31 AM
Ditto what Stacia just said. I always check the index--the index is always great for even making submissions. Better than Ralan's at times...
Tri

James D. Macdonald
10-20-2011, 02:41 AM
Why would they tag me as an employee/coworker?

Because they're getting desperate? Allegedly, they not only scam their authors, they scam their editors too.

For more on their character and actions, see: http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2006/05/victoria-strauss-someone-out-there.html

Christyp
10-20-2011, 11:33 PM
Because they're getting desperate? Allegedly, they not only scam their authors, they scam their editors too.

For more on their character and actions, see: http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2006/05/victoria-strauss-someone-out-there.html

Wow, pretty freaking pathetic. Kind of sucks...I was a little excited!

Stlight
10-21-2011, 01:31 AM
Christyp, a certain helpful mod moved your original post was ported to the thread about American Book Publishing Group. That is why the link was removed. You are now in the thread you wanted.

ABPG_Author
05-11-2012, 11:44 PM
I published my novel with ABPG back in 2004 (though I signed the contract in 2001). The contract I signed was likely less restrictive than the next-generation variants. I had the pleasure of speaking directly with C.Lee Nunn on the phone.

This is my take. A case can be made that I used ABPG as much as they used me. Under the terms of the contract I signed, they could not coerce me to buy 500 copies of my book. I did not have any problem with what was at the time a $450 start-up fee. After all, we pay fees to banks, universities, and even our landlords (e.g., amenities fee). ABPG took my manuscript and turned it into a high-end product I can be proud of. My novel looked as good as any other in a bookstore. I am not distressed that the book is not distributed to bookstores, because no one is going to stumble upon it among so many volumes anyway and people are just as content in the era of e-procurement to purchase it from Amazon or Barnes&Noble.com. The point is that I had my novel in hand and no shortage of e-tailers to which to refer prospective consumers. And I enjoyed the experience of designing a web site to promote the novel and the various issues associated with it.

That being said, I did not collect royalty checks because I did not fulfill my end of the contract regarding the purchase of my own book. However, I did not publish my first novel with the goal of profit in mind. I did it to learn about the end-to-end process of publishing and to gain recognition for the ideas for which the novel served as a vehicle. For me, this experience was tantamount to putting the first man in orbit. There are so many other riches to be gained.

I never considered ABPG a vanity press. I have seen vanity presses. Authors pay upwards of $10,000 for what amounts to a box of books (printed on poor quality paper). The ABPG experience was nothing of the kind. It's a good business model for first time authors and for people who otherwise would frankly never find a publisher regardless of the intrinsic value of their work. (I can pen a whole essay advancing the case that the creme does not rise to the top in this industry).

I suspect in the end ABPG put a warning ON ME. My book was five times the size of the average novel and even though it has been described by those who read the mostly scripted dialogue as one of the more tense and thrilling novels and a work of major social import, I suspect there were not many people out there willing to pay $40 to read a 900-page novel (smaller print on larger size paper). This is also the fault of ABPG, which could have steered me in the right direction. My assigned editor was superb from the standpoint of editing sentences to give them more clarity and impact, but she was not disposed to make suggestions on content.

Now I was recently informed that the rights to my book reverted back to me now that the book is out of print. I am eager to implement my plan to improve the book's clarity and impact by reducing it to 10-25% of its current size for submission to a publisher with more established relationships to the community of reviewers. This was one area in which ABPG was lacking. I was responsible for reaching out to reviewers, and I would have to pay out of pocket for a copy of the book I shipped them. Most importantly, the list forwarded me by ABPG was out of date. Less than 10% of the contact information for reviewers was current.

I don't regret my experience. When you're young, you're impatient. You want to see your vision translated into a product you can hold in your hand and present at parties. I had perhaps one of the greatest stories to tell, a PhD that qualifies me to tell it, and something unique to teach people. What I didn't have is what someone needs to land a publisher: contacts. It's easier for an undrafted free agent to make a final NFL roster than it is for an unagented author, hypothetically with the greatest manuscript ever written in hand, to land a publisher. In addition to being talented (though I wonder how much of a requirement talent is these days), you have to be some combination of lucky and connected. I was neither. Finding an acquisitions editor from a reputable company willing to even review the first chapter of my manuscript seemed out of reach. While you're laboring for 1-10 years to find a readable incarnation of your vision or story, the publishers you hope will read it are out offering ghostwriters to celebrities whose minds authorship had probably never crossed. I realized a ghostwritten biography of Spencer Pratt was more likely than seeing my own name in print.

For people like me, ABPG offers a workable compromise. I experienced authorship. I spoke at libraries and universities (though never a bookstore). I controlled my image in a promotional web site through which my ideas enjoyed a regular intercourse with the world. I had the power to direct people to where they could buy my book. And in the end, I would come to own my book again 10 years later with a chance to correct all the mistakes I made as a fledgling author (and all the mistakes made by ABPG). I am eager to tie the release of this remastered work with a new novel I had been working on the past 2-3 years.

Gravity
05-12-2012, 12:02 AM
First publishing rights are like virginity: once the're gone, they're gone for good. I think your trying to find a legitimate commercial house to take this on, even in a revised form, will be a daunting task.

James D. Macdonald
05-12-2012, 12:36 AM
However, I did not publish my first novel with the goal of profit in mind. I did it to learn about the end-to-end process of publishing and to gain recognition for the ideas for which the novel served as a vehicle.

Unfortunately, you went with American Book Publishing. That means you still don't know anything about the end-to-end process of publishing.

James D. Macdonald
04-29-2013, 03:20 AM
The Hubpages thread on American Book Publishing is still going:

http://cjv123.hubpages.com/hub/ASPIRING-AUTHORS-BE-AWARE-OF-AMERICAN-BOOK-PUBLISHING

The most recent comment there was two days ago.

HapiSofi
04-29-2013, 09:36 AM
I wonder whether there's something creative we could do to get ABP the kind of publicity Atlanta Nights got for Publish America.

DaveKuzminski
04-30-2013, 03:18 AM
Hmmm, Russian Mornings with a US flag showing? Kind of how the Americans is advertised on TV with a hammer and sickle in place of the C.

victoriastrauss
08-19-2013, 08:41 PM
American Book Publishing has expanded into a network of satellite publishers, bogus trade organizations, and aliases. See my blog post (http://www.accrispin.blogspot.com/2013/08/expanded-alert-at-writer-beware.html) for more information and for documentation.

ABP's satellite operations and websites include:


Alexis Press (http://www.alexispress.com/) (no books pubbed to date)
All Classic Books (http://www.allclassicbooks.com/publishing/) (four books pubbed to date, all public domain titles, with a bunch of apparently original releases (http://www.allclassicbooks.com/books/new-titles-coming-soon/) in the pipeline--no sign of them on Amazon, though)
Atlantic National Books (http://www.atlanticnationalbooks.com/) (no books pubbed to date)
Publisher Standards Board (http://www.publisherstandardsboard.org/) (supposedly a “Self Regulatory Trade Organization for the Book Publishing Industry”; most of its website links lead to 404 messages)
Publisher Services Group (http://www.publisherservicesgroup.com/) (“Editing and Design Solutions for Indie Presses & Authors”)
Media Book Group (http://www.mediabookgroup.com/) (“Book promotion is our passion”)
Stopvanitypublishing.com (http://stopvanitypublishing.com/) (supposedly a web resource warning authors against vanity publishing, but really a device to drive traffic to all three of ABP’s satellite publishers--scroll down to the bottom of the page)

There are also some bogus news sites that pimp ABP, including American Book Publishing News Today (http://americanbookpublishingtoday.com/) and Book Publishing News and Views (http://bookpublishingtoday.com/).

ABP’s founder, Cheryl Nunn or C. Lee Nunn, is fond of triple-barreled aliases. Names she may be using include:


Nathan Fitzgearl, Kathleen Brooks Montgomery, Abigail Woodward Wright (ABP)
Elizabeth M. Bennett (Alexis Press)
Susannah E. Solomon (Atlantic National Books)
Rebecca Reese Winslow, Kelly Kenworthy, Sherry Quinn (All Classic Books)
Kory Kessal (Media Book Group)
James Jackson Jones ("egalleys", whatever that means)
Madison Armstrong ("book publishing industry executive," author of a book that doesn't seem to exist)

- Victoria

CaoPaux
03-09-2016, 08:31 PM
So, anyone seen hide or hair since '14? Not to say she won't be back, but ....

James D. Macdonald
03-09-2016, 10:16 PM
The last thing Archive Org has for ABP was in October, 2014: https://web.archive.org/web/20141006011339/http://www.american-book.com/ listing the business as for sale.

After that their web page went to a 302 redirect to myregisteredsite.com; now nothing.

She hasn't posted on Twitter (at least under her real name) since 2010.