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Readersdelite
07-21-2003, 09:28 AM
Can anyone provide me with information regarding IUniverse-POD Publiser

RealityChuck
07-21-2003, 08:46 PM
iUniverse is an electronic vanity press. If you want a few copies of a book to show your friends, it may be useful. If you want people to buy your book, and to have even the slightest chance of making money from it, they (like all of their ilk) are a royal ripoff.

Money flows toward the writer.

MInd Blowing
07-22-2003, 12:11 AM
Hi,

I know it's hard to land traditional contracts, but please reconsider print on demand publishing. Some may think it's a good alternative but it is not. I can't stress this enough. Companies like IUniverse are okay if you are writing to a local audience and don't expect to sale anything on a national level. But if you are considering a long and successful career as a REAL author, than POD is not an option. You will find yourself shunned and shut out from all the prizes authors deserve such as prestigious guilds such as the Author's Guild. They and many others do not accept POD authors as members. These people can give you inside information to the big houses and you can network with successful writers from all walks of life with the Author's Guild and many others. POD will not help in getting your work noticed for book awards, marketing opportunities, bookstore placement, book club promotion and reviews in major media outlets. You'll find many doors slammed in your face and it's a hard enough world for a writer as it is. If you plan to do anything more than sell ten copies to family and friends, you need to forget POD publishing. A real alternative to a huge publishing house is small press publishing and niche publishing houses. These are people who are smaller than houses like Random House but are still traditional. Some pay advances, some don't but they are REAL publishers who get your books in stores and get you exposure. They are a little more accepting to new authors and there are still a few who accept unagented manuscripts. Niche publishing houses are houses that may publish one kind of subject only such as Cookbooks, Self-help, Biographies, even certain fiction. It took me a long time to find a real publisher...but it's worth the wait. Trust me

Readersdelite
07-22-2003, 08:39 AM
Thank you so much for your responses to my question. I will take into consideration all that you have said and continue my research. I am a very serious writer. Also, I am a writer with very very very limited funds and access-single mother in the truest form. At 40 years old and the clock is ticking:lol , I don't want have the luxury of having my manuscripts just sit on desk. Hopefully, I will make the right decisions.

gala
07-22-2003, 11:08 AM
> A friend of mine in Seattle was able to grab the attention of a NY agent after his iUniverse book was successful. I don't know what his numbers were, but I do know the author and he has an excellent book.

> Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, Chicken Soup for the Soul, and other household names have self or "vanity" published.

> Read the iUniverse site. They are partnered with Barnes and Noble, you've heard of that bookstore, right? They have a new program wherein they will display iUniverse authors meeting certain standards in their stores. Not bad.

Having discussed iUnverse vs. other POD houses in writers meetings and online, I have a strong impression that co. in particular has a good reputation and author books DO sell. iUniverse is becoming a household name...brand familiarity.

I have heard publishers speak at writer's meetings and say that POD books are not looked down upon as they once were, and an author that has gone that mile and has a good product shows a "traditional" publisher they are serious. This was a shocker to me, as I used to look down my nose at POD authors :rolleyes

I don't say if I'm for or against POD/Vanity/Self-Publishing. But do continue your research based on hard facts. Get both sides. The world of publishing has dramatically changed because of the Internet and the Information age.

My feeling is that POD isn't the way to go, if only because a writer feels insecure, or if the quality isn't there. The iUniverse authors I know have great books and were determined to get them out there...and yes, I know some POD/Vanity books that are lousy and people laugh behind those writer's backs. (Not me, I admire anyone who pulls together a book. It ain't easy.)

Again, many, many famous and useful writings would've never been made available to the public if those authors hadn't been determined to get their work out there.

Good luck.

RealityChuck
07-23-2003, 01:18 AM
Get used to one fact: the vanity presses lie.

Consider:
> Mark Twain, Charles Dickens, Chicken Soup for the Soul, and other household names have self or "vanity" published. Twain didn't self-publish (he most assuredly did not use a vanity press) until after he was an established author. Same with Dickens. His books were massively popular due to their publication in standard royalty presses.


> Read the iUniverse site. They are partnered with Barnes and Noble, you've heard of that bookstore, right? They have a new program wherein they will display iUniverse authors meeting certain standards in their stores. Not bad And practically none of the iUniverse books are ever displayed in any of their stores. This "partnership" meant iUniverse paid B&N so that they could claim the books were there. Try going into a B&N and find any iUniverse books.

You said that you don't have money to waste. All the more reason not to go to a vanity press. There is zero chance that you will earn back a cent from anything sold to iUniverse.

If you're in it for the ego, and have the money to waste, vanity presses are a way to go. But earning money from them is less likely than escaping a black hole in a rowboat.

And remember -- their publicity is filled with lies and misrepresentations. Do you really want to trust you book to someone who misrepresents the facts?

Gala
07-23-2003, 01:42 AM
Perhaps your facts are out of date regarding this particular company.

I want to emphasize again to the starter of this topic they look at the facts from both sides, and make an enlightened decision.

The person who asked the question is capable of researching info and making an informed decision. I have every faith that will be the case. I don't feel it my job to sway them one way or the other, only to share my knowledge in a rational manner.

Some writers publish their books from their laser printers and hand them out for free, because they want their message known. I have no problem with that sort of vanity publishing, if that is what the person is called to do. I am not at this time. Others post their missives online, and for that I am grateful for the plethora of free info out there. Others publish via iUniverse, or a traditional publisher. I have spent my hard earned money, and plenty of it, in support of those works as well.

I don't feel it's my place to slander those who make different choices as writers than I do. I admire anyone who makes the effort to write and publish a book in the format they are called to do so. That's all.

Mind Blowing
07-23-2003, 07:41 AM
I agree that writers should choose the path that works for them. The only problem I have is with dirty POD companies who lie to writers claiming things that are simply not true. I know more than four of the most popular POD companies, ( I won't mention names ) that lie off the bat about getting top magazines to review work and getting in bookstores. As far as B&N and IUniverse is concerned, Barnes & Noble has stated millions of times that they DO NOT carry POD books. This is a huge misconception and authors believe it's true. IUniverse used to be able to use B&N as leverage, but now they cannot because any B&N manager will tell you straight up in your face they will not carry POD books. Most of them have never even heard of IUNiverse. Anyone who calls up a B&N can expect that response. And they will not be polite about it either. It takes a heck of a lot of convincing for sellers to even speak to a POD author. I know tons of POD authors ( with great books ) that have selling potential and still got the doors slammed in their faces. And when they asked for a little help from their POD companies like lowering prices after a book order...they got a fat NO! Which meant the company could care less about the author's book selling past two copies. Not to say convincing B&N managers can't happen, but it depends on who the writer is, who they know and whether a particular bookstore cares enough to give a POD book a chance. It's not fair, but that's the way of the writing world. There used to be a time when the smaller bookstores would accompany POD authors. Now as the economy is falling and books are struggling, some local small chains won't even take a chance on a POD author. Not to mention the POD companies who were once good and now going out of business. And what about POD companies who are now making their contracts more complicated and charging fees higher than vanity presses? Whatever people believe, POD is not going to take over traditional publishing because that stigma is always going to be there and that itself hurts a POD author. I'm not trying to bust anyone's bubble or make up their mind, just stating facts. The topic starter asked for honest opinions and I wouldn't feel right not sharing what I have learned about POD.

If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is a duck. Just my 2 cents.

Gala
07-23-2003, 09:24 AM
Please! Check your data. I talked to a Barnes and Noble Community Relations Manager within this week, and indeed, iUniverse will have a bay in the store! This is a new program.

Please know I would never make such a statement falsely. I am in touch with an author who is in iUniverse's Star program (and doesn't pay to be in it). She shared her manuscript review and contract at a meeting last week. I have faith in this author's integrity and reasons for going this route. Believe me, the group grilled her mightily over her choice, and over the detail of being in the store was true or not.

It can easily be verified. Thank you.

Dear Author of this post--you are getting a taste of what you'll be dealing with out there from your so-called fellow authors, depending on the route you take. You may be treated as a fool or less-than by some. But not by all ;) Good luck to you, and I won't trouble you with any more about this, as I know you'll check the facts for yourself.

;)

readersdelite
07-23-2003, 01:22 PM
Thank you so much for all of your responses. It is true that I will conduct a thorough research before making any final decision. But, you have expanded my views simply with your comments. Gala, thanks for the vote of confidence, it is really appreciated. I will jot down some of the concerns about PODs agencies and try to locate documented occurences. Also, I think it might be a good idea to try to contact some of these bookstores mentioned. If anyone has an idea of the best way to do this let me know. I am weighing all of the options, infact I have just completed several queries to literary agents. So we shall see-hopeful it will all come out okay in the wash:lol . I will make it my business to always check and respond if I can help on this board. It has been a true asset to me. Keep your comments coming as they are so valuable; regardless of the final decisions made.
Tami

capitalistwriter
07-23-2003, 09:17 PM
One thing to ask yoursel about self-publishing, vanity presses and POD is, who has a stake in the success of my book? With a traditional publisher, the publisher has an upfront investment that motivates them to try to sell your book--they have a stake in its success. With all of the other approaches YOU are the only one with any stake in the success of your book. Everything falls on your shoulders.

Now, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. If you go into it with your eyes wide open, understanding where you stand and who will do what, then I have no issue with the basic concept of self-publishing or POD (though, you do have to be careful about the disproportionate number of dishonest people who are involved in these businesses). Just be aware that when it comes to distribution, reviews, sales, and everything else, YOU are going to be the one who makes things happen. No one else has any motivation to make your book succeed except you.

If you want and expect someone else to handle these issues, if you just want to write and let someone else do the selling, then you NEED to go the traditional route!

Mind Blowing
07-24-2003, 12:01 AM
I am not a POD author, so going to a B&N and asking them to stock a book has never been anything I had to do, since I have a traditional publisher. As far as checking data, I get my data from millions of POD authors on hundreds of websites ( the horses' mouths themselves ) speaking on how they have been lied to, jipped and treated unfairly. Many of them say they would never have gone with a POD company if they had known they wouldn't be in bookstores. No one here is treating the poster like a fool. As a fellow writer I am trying to be as honest about things with her as possible. No one here is undermining her decision. But unless I am mistaken, she asked US for our input and we are giving her our input. I'm not going to make POD seem all rosey and sweet and not tell her the honest truth about what to expect. I'm sure she's smart enough to choose her own route, but don't forget she asked for our opinions and we should be truthful on both sides. We can't make POD seem like it's a great deal for all authors all of the time because that is terribly untrue.

The poster may want to call up some B&N and Borders bookstores and ask if they carry POD books IN the store. That way she can see the deal on her own. When a B&N says we " carry " POD books, it doesn't mean they are stocked in the store. If they were stocked in the store POD authors wouldn't be so pissed off about their company's empty promises. It means the books can be ORDERED. It's a big difference. As far as the poster being treated like a fool, no one here is doing this just because they don't agree with POD publishing. I believe she deserves to go with a real publisher. As a fellow author I believe all writers should have a REAL chance at success.

BTW, Just because a FEW POD books out of millions get in bookstores, does not mean anything to individual authors. Authors only care about their books so telling someone one person's book was in B&N means diddily squat to a writer if there's isn't treated with the same chance. Even if a POD book got in one or two bookstores, it would be only a few in that city. A POD publisher is not going to send books nationwide to big chains because they WON'T accept them. Bottom line is the return policy of books along with the expensive prices and the president of B&N has discussed their take on POD books. Not to mention that POD authors have to buy their own books for reviews and etc. Imagine buying ten small paperbacks at $22 of your own book. You've already spent loads of money just to get your book to reviewers who are less than enthusiastic about POD.

It takes some digging on the poster's part and she will be able to see how things are truly handled.

I wish the poster well with what she chooses to do.

Victoria
07-24-2003, 06:18 AM
Gala is right about the Star program, which will bring at least some iUniverse books into Barnes & Noble stores. However, this is a restricted exposure, available only to authors who first manage to sell a high volume of books and then are assessed for quality. It involves a new contract (more restrictive, like that of a commercial publisher) and limited availability at B&N stores (not necessarily national distribution). Details are here:

www.iuniverse.com/jahia/Jahia/pid/134 (http://www.iuniverse.com/jahia/Jahia/pid/134)

If B&N is indeed planning to put all Star Program books together in a special display, it'll probably limit sales--segregating the books like that is like slapping on a big label saying "not a normal book". IMO the way to test these books would be to shelve them with commercially-published books.

- Victoria
Writer Beware
www.sfwa.org/beware/ (http://www.sfwa.org/beware/)

Jennifer C
07-24-2003, 12:46 PM
I've heard a lot about this Star Program from fellow POD writers in a group I'm in. They aren't too thrilled. I wasn't impressed either because it seems to me IUniverse doesn't have confidence in all of their authors because if they did, they would make sure all the authors got this opportunity. To me and probably a lot of other authors, this suggests that IUniverse knows that they do publish less than quality work because they wouldn't have to separate their authors by choosing who has the best work or who doesn't. All the authors should be on a certain level to be published in the first place. Is the company saying some are good and others not good enough, so they won't promote them in their little program? I think this is a gimmick and though it may seem like a good idea to some people, it's not because in the end it's going to put IUniverse authors against one another. Some are going to wonder why others books are seen as better than theirs. In my literary group there are a lot of people who work in B&N bookstores and they have the inside info to a lot of things we don't. I've been told that this program only depends on what IUniverse thinks will sell and not what may be the best writing from authors. It has to do a lot with what the person writes that determines if they will be chosen into the program. If someone wrote a great Literary novel and they were up against someone who wrote a terrible book about the terrorist attacks, you can bet IUniverse is only going to enter what they think will sell ( the terrorist attack book ) and not always the best works from their company. Some authors who deserve this break will be screwed big time. Seems like a step backwards to me. I'm also confused about how many authors would be chosen in the program. If there are only five who are chosen to get in bookstores and you have over ten thousand authors, that's not a great deal. The point is, even with this program, B&N still has no obligation to sell the books. It's based on whether they choose to or not. They still have an option to turn down POD books. And since the authors they choose have to sell tons of copies first then where does IUniverse's help come in? The authors are still doing it alone.

Readersdelite
07-25-2003, 08:20 AM
You have all given me so much to consider-thank you very much. Tomorrow, I am going to go to Barnes and Nobles to see if and how POD books are made available. Also, I want to know what proportion of PODs ordered to chain bookstores. I am doing this as my own personal research on the subject. I have collected the names of several literary agents and will research them thoroughly before making any decision. In the end, I may decide to find a good agent and let them handle some of this. These are a couple of agents/agencies that I may contact: James C. Vines at The Vines Agency and Jennifer Jackson at Donald Maas Literary Agency. My queries and synopsis are ready to be sent. Does anyone have any personal knowledge about the repretation of these agents or agencies? Thanks for all of your input-it is really appreciated.
Tami

elcappytkd
10-10-2003, 02:42 AM
Well, I guess I should weigh in here. My name is Bill Pottle and I published my first book, DreamQuest, though iUniverse in march 2003. To date, it's sold over 600 copies.

There are many disadvantages to going the POD route, but dishonest companies is not one of them. I knew exactly what iU's business model was before I signed up, and I knew that I would bear the brunt of the publicity efforts. I think any reasonable consumer would know this by reading through most POD companies' web sites.

As for 'not making back a cent' that's obviously untrue. I have yet to meet any author who can't sell 30-40 copies of their book just to friends and family. I had made a few hundred dollars at one point, but I decided to operate everything like a zero-sum game and put all profits back into marketing, donating copies to charity, etc.

I think the best thing about POD is that it puts the fate of a book in the hands of the author and the reading public. If a book is good, and marketed well, it'll sell. And if you sell 20 copies and make 20 kids happy reading it, I think that's a pretty good thing by itself.

Bill

www.dreamqueststory.com

poorboy2
10-25-2003, 12:20 AM
You know, if you do your research, you'll find that even the 'big houses' don't do alot of marketing and promotion. They give a standard 3 months promotion package. If it doesn't skyrocket, it's done. They just have the foot into many markets. If you can get your book into a book club, you're in the money.

Even the big houses say that author promotion efforts are key to successful sales. And the truth is, unless you're already famous, getting those prime shots like a moment on Oprah or Good Morning America to promote your book, well, they just don't happen often to the regular writer.

As for iuniverse, I have a friend who was published by them. Shirley McCann. She's happy enough. She didn't have to pay to be published by them either, which was something I didn't realize they were apt to do. I thought they were all self-publish, where the author pays them.

She said that there is a stigma on their books, though, and many places won't carry them, and other authors don't give her much respect because they think she paid to be published.

Now, I have plenty of friends who are self-published and happy, making good money on hawking their own books. (Peggy Fielding, W.C. Jameson, Velda Brotherton, to name a few.)

I say, if we learn from the self-published authors and sell our books like they do, we can make some money. And if we get lucky enough to be published by a bigger house that fronts all printing costs, we're doing pretty good.

marky48
10-25-2003, 01:12 AM
iUniverse charges $199; doubled in the last year. It was never free, although Xlibris was. I think this is wishful thinking based on facts. I have an IU book. In fact PA bought it for a dollar and doubled the price without my consent as it was their "discretion" to do so. How bout them facts?

James D Macdonald
10-25-2003, 11:38 PM
Some iU books were published free.

For example, at one point Barnes&Noble bookstore clerks could get their own books published without charge. I'm aware of one such -- he has three books out (they sank without a trace, though they are technically still available).

marky48
10-25-2003, 11:44 PM
I was unaware of that James. Do something with those mindsight people would you?

HapiSofi
10-26-2003, 10:34 AM
I'm utterly desolated to have to say this, Poorboy, but you don't know jack sh*t about publishing. For starters, there's no such thing as a "standard 3 months promotion package." Every house is different, every book is different, every promo campaign is different.

Having a book -- any book -- published by a reputable trade house gets you more marketing and promotion than you're going to see from any e-, POD, subsidy, or other euphemistically nonstandard publisher. A conventional publisher's investment in a given title goes far beyond the advance paid to the author. Some of that goes into making it a better and more attractive book -- that's editing, design, art direction, copyediting, proofreading, etc. Even more of it goes into selling the book, repeatedly, at many different levels and through many different channels.

Getting published by iUniverse, Xlibris, PublishAmerica, etc., is only publishing in the most nominal and minimal sense. If you're an unknown, especially a first-time fiction writer, it will do absolutely nothing for you. If you want to throw your work away, it's your lookout; but you should know from the start that that's what it is.

If scuttling around distributing bookmarks and talking to your local bookstore managers and getting interviewed on your local 0300 radio talk show were enough to sell a book, the industry would be selling books that way. Those things do help, just a tad. But if your publisher doesn't have little extras LIKE A SALES FORCE, your efforts aren't enough and never will be.

You will not make money.

The way to get published by a real publisher is to write a book they want to publish. If you're a writer, you should be staying home and working on writing that book, not running around in an futile effort to hand-sell an unsuccessful early work.

Ed Williams 3
10-26-2003, 05:39 PM
...is that POD is laughed at by the publishing world. Pretty much nothing is turned down, and POD publishers make their money either off fees or through what sales the authors can manage on their own, which is typically gonna be sales to family members and friends.

In the past couple of months, I have been fortunate to have been sent to some major Southern book conferences by my publisher, River City Publishing - conferences like the Southern Independent Booksellers Conference, the Atlanta Literary Festival, and the Southern Festival of the Book up in Nashville. To a "T," whenever the subject of POD was mentioned people would laugh out loud. In one session I attended, even the term "POD author" was questioned, which should speak volumes for how the industry sees them.

One more thing - iUniverse had booths at both the Atlanta Literary Festival and at the Southern Festival of the Book. Authors were there, and paid iUniverse for the privilege of being there, something like a hundred dollars a shot. They would let them be in their booths for an hour or so, and at the Atlanta Literary Festival they did not even have chairs for their authors to sit in. They had to hawk their books standing up the whole time. In Nashville, one guy sat outside their booth and played his guitar and sang - you can't imagine how much derision that picked up. Bottom line, if being a serious writer is your goal and mission, avoid POD like the plaque. If POD were a serious vehicle for publishing happiness, everyone would be doing it.

Ed Williams 3
10-26-2003, 05:42 PM
....check and see how many POD books are listed in the Library of Congress. From my understanding, the LOC will not list them, which should also speak volumes....

marky48
10-26-2003, 11:58 PM
None are, but funds were collected from the PODs Xlibris, iU Istboooks et al to place them there. How legal is that? The POD stigma is real to me. I can't even use them as writing samples. That's how worthless they really are.

HapiSofi
10-27-2003, 03:41 AM
As I've said elsewhere, they make a very stable backup medium.

battlechaser
10-27-2003, 12:39 PM
View my POD on the LOC website (http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=18&ti=1,18&Search_Arg=under+the+rose&Search_Code=TALL&PID=19887&CNT=25&SEQ=20031027003611&SID=1)


I am not here to argue, just enlighten.
Please research before discriminating.
Promotion is key for any unknown author.

Thanks fellow writers.

marky48
10-27-2003, 10:47 PM
Promotion won't get you out of this or make it something it's not.

James D Macdonald
10-27-2003, 11:52 PM
It's a self-published book of poetry. Self publication is perfectly legitimate -- traditional, even -- for poets.

marky48
10-28-2003, 12:12 AM
He seems to arguing that promotion is key for any self-published genre not limited to poetry i.e. it's my fault that my POD books are failures and that if I had worked harder ala PA authors, who have told me so repeatedly things would have turned out different. I repsectfully disagree.

James D Macdonald
10-28-2003, 12:26 AM
He didn't say "self-published," he said "unknown." I was unknown once. For most values of fame, I'm still unknown. Yes, promotion is very valuable. I'm happy that my publisher(s) give me oodles.

marky48
10-28-2003, 01:05 AM
And that is the place from whence it should come.

battlechaser
10-28-2003, 01:40 AM
Marky, the bottom line is if you would have made a bundle of money on your 1st book(s), then your POD thoughts would be different.

In relation to what you just stated; If your publisher says you have a "spot" on a television show to promote your book, you gonna tell then, "Your the promoter, you do it." Is this right?

Also, book signings are guess what? Can be set up by the publisher or the author, which equates to self promotion.

Marky, you seem to be implying that the writer should just write the book then sit back and collect the money.

marky48
10-28-2003, 02:30 AM
Sir,

I'm simply implying that without a real publisher, none of that will matter. Multiple testimonies back me up, many heavily self-promoted. While I don't know anything about selling poetry, I've had three of these POD efforts and embarassment on the author's part, or a yawn, is is all that comes of it. Happily, I don't sing. Think what you like, but live it first, then report. Rosy scenarios are easy to imagine, but much more difficult to pull off. Just ask the Pentagon.

battlechaser
10-28-2003, 02:44 AM
Understood.

bazhe
03-09-2004, 11:06 PM
if you are ready to promote yourself then you are fine.
you can visit my website:
www.bazhe.com (http://www.bazhe.com)

or email me for more info at:
bazhe@bazhe.com

or post your questions on my 2 other groups:
groups.msn.com/Bazhe (http://groups.msn.com/Bazhe)
groups.yahoo.com/group/bazhe/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bazhe/)

i would be very happy to help you
all the best, bazhe

bazhe
03-09-2004, 11:40 PM
Be very careful-POD publishers, Any Publishers can hurt you!

bazhe
www.bazhe.com (http://www.bazhe.com)

bazhe
03-09-2004, 11:46 PM
Most of the POD titles are not available in stores.

Many POD titles are all screwed up through Barnes and Nobles
channels. They are not listed properly, the old editions are not
removed until they sell the last one, and of course they will not
pay your royalty.
Neither POD nor Barnes and Noble care about your efforts to sell
more.
When you ask them what happened, they blame someone else, others.

So how do they want us to sell books when the customer cannot order
them through the Holy Book Giant B&N?

That is a big enigma for all of us. Isn't it?

Finally, I have US and Euro agents. I hope they won't act like the
publishers, or the booksellers. Lets all pray.

If you have any questions email me
bazhe@bazhe.com
Or go to my website
www.bazhe.com

I will share all with you my fellow writers.

Or post it at my groups
groups.msn.com/Bazhe
groups.yahoo.com/group/bazhe/

May I invite you to my web-site:
www.bazhe.com (http://www.bazhe.com)

Thank you,
Bazhe

bazhe
03-09-2004, 11:47 PM
If you have any questions email me
Or go to my website
www.bazhe.com\

Or post it at my groups
groups.msn.com/Bazhe (http://groups.msn.com/Bazhe)
groups.yahoo.com/group/bazhe/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bazhe/)

pammar
03-13-2004, 09:59 AM
Has anybody had any experience with them? I know, I know...self-publication, but this is one way I want to go. I think I can market my novel, and it's **** hard to get a novel accepted the traditional way, unless your name is Stephen King. I am going to try traditional and e-publications as well as self-publication, but I'm defintely doing self-publication. If anybody knows about iuniverse or any other reputable self-publisher, e-publisher or traditional publisher of novels, please tell me your experiences

My e-mail is pammar@wctc.net

My Yahoo Messenger name is pam_wi50

Thanks :)

James D Macdonald
03-13-2004, 10:18 AM
No, pammar. Not self-publication. Vanity publication. Self-publication is something else.

iUniverse is a vanity publisher. The vanity publishers want to blur the line between vanity publication and self-publication, but that doesn't mean you have to go along with it.

(Short definition: If you paid for publication and you own the rights and take all the income, it's self-publication. If you paid for publication and they own the rights and pay you a royalty, it's vanity publication.)

Don't sell yourself short, and don't bet against yourself. Go for traditional publication.

Remember that Stephen King wasn't always <BLINK>S*T*E*P*H*E*N !!! K*I*N*G!!!</blink>. Once he was a guy in living in a double-wide in Maine who no one had ever heard of.


(If he'd vanity-pubbed Carrie he'd still be a guy living in a double-wide in Maine who no one had ever heard of.)

It's hard to get traditionally published unless you've written a good novel. There are more traditional publishing slots every year than there are good books written to fill them.

Ignore e-publication too. Maybe it's the wave of the future, maybe it isn't, but right now it's a niche where breaking into three digits makes you a best-seller (sort of like that vanity publishing gig).

For traditional publishers: get a copy of the current Writer's Market (your library should have a copy).

Whatever else you do, don't pay to get published.

JustinoIV
03-13-2004, 11:43 AM
If you wish to query agents, go to www.wga.org. Go to the New York list, and look to see what New York agencies represent novelists.

While you're marketing one book, start working on another. Don't spend too much time on one book.

I heard Stephen King was rejected by 20 publishers that he had submitted to before he got published. So realize that rejection is a part of the business. I think the reason people fall for all the scam artists is because the crook promises you that you will not hear no. And that is a lie.

pammar
03-13-2004, 09:49 PM
Ok, you are assuming I expect to make a good living as a writer. I'm really just looking for some readers for my stories. No fun to tell a story and have nobody listening. I'm not looking to be a Stephen King. I am looking into self-publication because it's a way for an author to get her book read, even if limited. I can do my own marketing and will be thrilled if only a few people buy my book. I see that people here are sort of intent on making this their bread and butter, so I thank you for your input, but I'm not that ambitious. I have no interest in paying an agent either.

I've been writing all of my life, and have watched the market. It's not good for people who are not knowns, especially those who write novels.

Good luck :)

pammar
03-13-2004, 09:56 PM
Thanks for this thread. I am probably going with iuniverse. I have a friend, who has been pubished, who recommended them to me. She has been published both t he traditional way and POD. Since the traditional way is usually a bunch of rejection slips, with your manuscript never even being read, I'd like to do POD first, then try e-publication. I don't have the time to wait for twenty years either, and I think I can effectively market my book for sales. I dont' think POD is the way to go if you want to be a best seller, but I think it's a great way to get readers to enjoy your stories :) However, I've done serious research about good/bad POD companies. iuniverse seems to have the best reputation.

JustinoIV
03-14-2004, 12:16 AM
If you just want only a few people to read your books, save your time and just email your manuscripts to your friends and family. And post on the internet. People will be happy to take a look at it.

JustinoIV
03-14-2004, 12:23 AM
"Since the traditional way is usually a bunch of rejection slips, with your manuscript never even being read, I'd like to do POD first, then try e-publication."

Rejection is a part of the business. All best selling writers got hit with tons of rejection slips. There is an expression, no pain, no gain.

If you are so desperate to get people to read your mansucripts, simply email them to friends and post them online.

Then again, if Iuniverse is confident enough with you materials not to charge you anything, it may be worth a try.

James D Macdonald
03-14-2004, 01:01 AM
Look, Pam, if all you're after is selling copies to your family and friends, go with <a href="http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/books.aspx" target="_new">CafePress</a>, or post it on your web page.

The reason that people talk about making money is because there's a direct relationship between how much money you make and how many readers you have. It's tough to count readers, but it's easy to count money. That's all.

iUniverse doesn't have any better luck at getting its books onto bookstore shelves than any other vanity PoD, even though they're partly owned by Barnes&Noble. If you're truly interested in doing self-publication, pick up a copy of Dan Poynter's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568600887/ref=nosim/madhousemanor/" target="_new">guide</a> and publish your book yourself. Getting tied to a vanity means that you'll still have to do all the marketing and publicity on your own, but only get a fraction of the income.

But don't let me talk you out of iUniverse if that's where you've set your heart. Come back in a year and tell us how it went.

UltimateCarrie
03-17-2004, 08:57 AM
I've had a good experience with IUniverse. My book was published about a year ago (April 2003) and I qualified for the Editor's Choice program, and just recently was promoted to the Reader's Choice program (based on # of books sold).

I am not a 'writer', but I had a story to tell. So I didn't want to waste my time trying to find an agent, publisher, etc -- something that would take a year or so just to get the story out.

But they just publish your book, make it available to many different outlets -- but it is up to you to sell it. My ONLY complaint is that the price of my book is higher than I think it should be, but 'oh well'. Overall, I'd give them a positive rating.

Carrie
www.familybound.com (http://www.familybound.com)

vstrauss
03-17-2004, 09:11 AM
Pammar,

Do some comparison shopping--there are a lot of services like iUniverse out there, and they all offer a different mix of features. They're also of variable quality, so be sure to order one or two of their books before you make a final decision.

Here's a useful site: www.booksandtales.com/pod/index.html (http://www.booksandtales.com/pod/index.html)

The above said, I agree with others who suggest the traditional route first, with iUniverse or a similar service as a fallback option. You can't know you won't be successful unless you try.

>>I have no interest in paying an agent either.<<

A good agent only gets paid if you do.

- Victoria

thousandcasts
03-25-2004, 10:03 PM
I agree with the stigma attached with POD, but oh well. If the publishing world was a little more receptive to new work, then POD wouldn't be an option in the first place. I published a POD book in 2002 and via internet exposure, mail orders, ect, I've managed to sell over 500 copies. Not super numbers in comparison, but enough to make some money off of it. I re-couped my publishing fee and then some. It has been received highly by the readers and positive owrd of mouth has moved a lot of copies. It is a niche book (outdoor humor) with a select audience. I have reached that audience and got my work to them without selling my soul or giving up any rights to the book. Yeah, doors have been slammed shut but again, who cares. I'm not in this to appease critics or other writers. It something I do as a creative outlet--it is not my full time job. I did it to develop an audience (mission accomplished) and set up a market for future releases (mission accomplished). All without the traditional publishing world or the mainstream press. I've sold copies nationally beyond my regional audience as well as some from over seas. Sorry, but in all regards, I can only give a high-flying middle finger to the closed minded publishing world and the media that chooses not to accept POD as a viable publishing offer. If they don't view my work as credible, then that's their problem, not mine. My work has all the credibility I need amongst my readers--and that's good enough for me. I will not subject myself to rejection when I already have a reader base that is very vocal in their satisfaction of my work. I'm satisfied by doing it myself and will continue that...

Cape2004
03-25-2004, 10:20 PM
I agree with you.
It can be worth it, but it all depends.

iUniverse now have a program where traditional publishers can view your work. Many iuniverse authors have been signed to contracts as a result.

Might be worth a spin.

aka eraser
03-25-2004, 10:26 PM
If you're happy, I don't think anyone here will try to change your mood, or your mind. I'm glad it worked out for you.

PS- We're in similar fields. My book has a humourous bent.

thousandcasts
03-25-2004, 10:28 PM
I'm considering Iuniverse for my next book. I went with Xlibris the first time. Anyone here who may have used Iuniverse have any comments about them that haven't already been included in this thread?

Cape2004
03-25-2004, 10:33 PM
I think it all depends. Some people have had good experiences with a company, some have not.
My friend had a good experience with iuniverse. He said they were fast and efficient.
But you might find someone who had a problem.

It is all up to who a company gives you as an Assistant. Some assistants are lousy, some really work hard for you. It's too bad some are lousy, as then the entire company is juged by a lousy employee. (but some companies truly are lousy, usually because of bad policies or administration)

Anyway, best of luck.

JustinoIV
03-25-2004, 11:04 PM
"I will not subject myself to rejection when I already have a reader base that is very vocal in their satisfaction of my work. I'm satisfied by doing it myself and will continue that... "

I'm happy you're happy. You're a hobbyist though, and you seem to have no intention of totally supporting yourself through writing.

In order to do that, you have to go to mainstream publishers. And yes, rejection is a big part of the business.

As long as you understand what you're getting into, that's fine.

I think many of the people here are warning partially because many inexperienced writers may not know how pod shuts and closes doors for people, and how it can only get them a few sales.

Traditional publishing is and always has been receptive to new work, provided it is work that they can sell. It is a business.

POD and Vanity Presses don't care if your work sells, because they are already making money off of your fees.

sfsassenach
03-25-2004, 11:40 PM
iUniverse now have a program where traditional publishers can view your work. Many iuniverse authors have been signed to contracts as a result.

Giant bu**sh** alert! Don't let them sell you this line.Traditional publishers don't go to vanity press site looking for material. Most of them have plenty to wade through--the slush as well as the agented material.

Jarocal
03-26-2004, 03:50 AM
Sure they have a program. It's when a traditional publisher is waiting in the doctor's office and all the magazines in the waiting room are taken. Being as the left the stacl of manuscripts everyone I know carry around with them in their car, that leaves only the free copy of the POD book that someone gave their doctor lying on the table as something to peruse. 10,000 doctor's visits later they finally find one worth reading and with only a single POD author moving on to a traditional publisher, the marketing dept for the POD (whom only market themselves not their books) write up a bold headline as to how their authors can get found by traditional publishers.

Cape2004
03-26-2004, 04:27 PM
I'm sure it is a load of rubbish for most PODs.
However, there were actually 2 authors that I read about in the newspaper that have gotten traditional publishing contracts as a result of their iuniverse books.

I'll find their names and post them here.

veingloree
03-26-2004, 04:44 PM
It the 'as a result' that I would question. I am sure that some good authors have put out a POD and then broken into real publishing. But was there a direct link?

Cape2004
03-26-2004, 04:53 PM
That is a very good question.
Here are the iuniverse authors I found who scored a traditional deal:

Ben Sherman "Medic" signed by Random House.

J. Scott Rudnenske "Music Business Made Simple" signed to Omnibus Press/Schirmer Trade.

Brian Wipund "Pipsqueak" signed to Random House.


I am sure most got a contract on their own merit. However iuniverse seem to have traditional publishing ties. (The STAR program they run is highly selective and selects only the best written works. So just because you use iuniverse does not mean your work will be seen by a traditional publisher.)

Just a note, I am not advocating iuniverse at all. I advocate no POD. Everyone's experience with POD is and will be different.

James D Macdonald
03-26-2004, 11:34 PM
Please don't confuse vanity publication with self-publication.

People who are interested true self-publication (a mantle that iUniverse attempts, falsely, to wear) should probably check out Dan Poynter's (http://www.booklocker.com/books/1405.html) book.

HapiSofi
03-27-2004, 12:52 AM
Except for stuff appearing in the trade press, I've never seen a magazine or newspaper story about "new publishing models" that didn't make me want to throw rocks at the reporter. If they didn't report that the new models not only exist but are promising or revolutionary or whatever, they wouldn't have a story.

I know I've explained this before, but here's the problem: It's fairly easy to think up a model of how publishing ought to work. You can hold it in your head. It will be logical and appealing and even a bit elegant. It will have no resemblance to the way publishing actually works.

If you tried to draw a representational model of the publishing industry as it actually works, the result would look like a collaboration between Rube Goldberg, H. R. Geiger, and Mervyn Peake. There isn't a single unifying logic to all the industry's parts. There are disparate and complex logics to all its separate parts, and they all interact with each other in a series of very complex interdependencies.

I can tell you right now which of those models is likelier to make its way into a nice little feature story. Can you guess which one it is?

maestrowork
03-27-2004, 09:56 AM
PoD/Vanity and self-publishing are not the same. Self-publishing is "legit" in a sense that it is a "real" publisher (albeit your own) who publishes your book. You have to set up the capital, do the distribution to get the books in the stores, etc. etc. It's a legit business so in essence you are both a writer and a business person. (I concur with Uncle Jim. Read that book). And if you do well, your "company" can even print other people's books eventually and operate as a real publisher.

PoD and Vanity have a lot of bad rap. Almost nobody is turned down and if you're willing to pay down $1000 you have enough books to sell to your family. So there's no quality control. No reviewers are going to review your book. No bookstores (except e-store: print on demand) would carry your book. You will have to depend on yourself to make it sell.

I highly recommend any aspiring author to exhaust traditional publishing first -- and I mean EXHAUST. Then you need to weigh in the pros and cons of self-publishing (can you raise a loan and do you like running your own business?) If you're down to your last resort, maybe it's time to think whether you should be an author at all (except for "hey mom, see my book printed!" -- thus the word vanity).

JustinoIV
03-27-2004, 02:04 PM
"I highly recommend any aspiring author to exhaust traditional publishing first -- and I mean EXHAUST. Then you need to weigh in the pros and cons of self-publishing (can you raise a loan and do you like running your own business?) If you're down to your last resort, maybe it's time to think whether you should be an author at all (except for "hey mom, see my book printed!" -- thus the word vanity)."

A lot of beginners spend too much time on manuscripts that may be fatally flawed thematically. Tha's why so amny are lured into Vanity Presses.

So while you are shopping around your first book, starting writing the next. When you send that one out, then start your third. And so on. It makes many years of practice and learning to perfect writing skills.

It's stupid advice to tell someone, oh, publishers aren't interested in your first project, just give up.

SRHowen
03-27-2004, 05:19 PM
It's stupid advice to tell someone, oh, publishers aren't interested in your first project, just give up.

But often true. The truth is that most first works are not going to get published. But somehow like the rest of the world publishing has become a everyone deserves to be published--it's owed to me because I sat down and wrote this.

Used to be you had to send to a publisher and wait for them to tell you your book was crap. Now, with the Internet you can have circles of people tell you your book is gold and deserves to be published. Scams galore, etc.

Hard work is what pays off. And yes it takes a long time to develop a story tellers craft. Not just grammar, spelling (though spelling is helped a great deal by spell checkers) and typing. Story teller craft--like the arguments of was and were, story telling is a matter of rhythm, a matter of learning how to engage the reader and get the pretty story in your head down on paper so others see the same pretty story. NOT EASY.

You have to almost hate what you write in order to see the flaws. And it takes a few attempts to evolve.

With the big stories about authors getting rich--billions of dollars just waiting for you and your golden words, that people don't want to think that only a select few are in that range. Go to a book store--holy cow! Look at all the books, yet how many are on the best seller list?

There are exceptions to the rule, there are exceptions to every rule--but they are exceptions, not the rule.

The road to publishing is paved with many hours of BIC, many pots of coffee and mortar and sweat, tears, and blood letting.

Vanity, POD, self-pub, they are good markets for a person who only wants to sell a few books. But don't fool yourself into thinking that publishers are out there just waiting for the next great self published book--the amount of submissions they receive is far greater than what they can read--so why would they troll the Internet or other sources to find a book? They get delivered by the truck load to their door everyday.

Shawn

JustinoIV
03-27-2004, 11:28 PM
"But often true. The truth is that most first works are not going to get published. But somehow like the rest of the world publishing has become a everyone deserves to be published--it's owed to me because I sat down and wrote this."

Please rearead what I said. I said it is stupid to tell someone to give up writing just because there first project doesn't sell. I suggested as soon as they finish the first project and start sending it out, that they move on to the next. When they are done with that, mail it out, and start moving on to your next. And so on.

I agree, first works rarely sell, I didn't start getting any attention as a screenwriter until I had written 6 screenplays. I now have my first screenwriting job, and am applying for others. So far my spec scrupts are just serving as writing samples. But hey, they're getting me work. And hopefully I'll sell one of them.

AnneMarble
03-29-2004, 03:18 AM
Except for stuff appearing in the trade press, I've never seen a magazine or newspaper story about "new publishing models" that didn't make me want to throw rocks at the reporter. If they didn't report that the new models not only exist but are promising or revolutionary or whatever, they wouldn't have a story.

That explains some of the newspaper stories I've seen. :tongue

However, I think sometimes they're driven by ignorance of the publishing field. After all, while more and more papers have computer specialists or whatever, how many have publishing specialists. ;) Also, many of those start out as "Look, a local author published his book on killer cabbages, and it's a huge success story because no one wanted to publish him until this nice company took a chance on him..."

Last year, I remember reading an article (the on-line version anyway) that rated the POD presses. I'm pretty sure it was in a computer magazine. The writer herself was interested because she couldn't get her nonfiction book sold. (IIRC it was on a topic that was not in her field of expertise.) There was a forum, and for every reasonable warning and caution, there wer two or three "POD is the future" posts. I think the article's author was considering PA by the end of it. I don't know if anything came of that, though. Does anyone remember this article?

sfsassenach
03-29-2004, 03:44 AM
I remember that we were all supposed to be living in a "paperless" world by now. So much for that.

James D Macdonald
03-29-2004, 04:03 AM
That was PC Magazine. Here's the article. (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1045904,00.asp)

AnneMarble
03-29-2004, 08:44 PM
I like the way RealityChuck's forum quote "The assumptions in the article are breathtakingly ignorant" ended up chock right in the middle of the article. :lol

I hope that kept some people from jumping right in with a POD. Then again, even that nonfiction writer who was posting on the forums (I could've sworn she was involved with writing the article, OK, never mind :o ) seemed ready to jump in with PA, no matter what people said.

Well, I hope it worked out for her. :\

DaveKuzminski
08-06-2004, 10:01 PM
Apparently, there's a problem with iUniverse's contract that was brought to my attention. Here's a link to what is happening: www.livejournal.com/~heidi8/345320.html (http://www.livejournal.com/~heidi8/345320.html)

Katherinebs
09-08-2004, 04:08 AM
iUniverse? Does anyone have anything on iUniverse? Are they reputable? They keep calling me, emailing me and I don't know, too many horror stories and too broken promises for others. Any ideas?

Lonna
09-08-2004, 04:43 AM
Look at page three, there is a large post on this topic that may help.

arainsb123
09-08-2004, 04:44 AM
They didn't break any promises with me. My author copies were great quality, they don't make you use cover or interior templates, so the books are very professional and indistinguishable from offset books (except for the iUniverse logo on the covers, of course).

They get very good distribtution, I found my books for sale on over a dozen sites. They offer marketing packages for you to purchase, and also an editorial review and copyediting. Hardcover is an extra $199 and ebook is free. Basically, if you think that POD is a good choice for you, I recommend iUniverse.

Katherinebs
09-08-2004, 07:36 AM
Thank you. I'm looking into to it as a last resort.

I just sent out my manuscript to a new agent to see what happens. My problem is I really don't have much time to keep searching, something has to be done within a year and before things get worse for me, I'd like to get one dream/wish done for myself. Thanks!:jump

James D Macdonald
09-08-2004, 07:49 AM
They're a POD vanity press.

Aim high. Submit your work to regular publishers.

If you've written a book that a lot of people want to read, a traditional publisher will buy it. If you haven't written a book that a lot of people want to read, no vanity press scheme on earth will help you.

Dhewco
09-08-2004, 11:17 PM
"My problem is I really don't have much time to keep searching, something has to be done within a year and before things get worse for me, I'd like to get one dream/wish done for myself."


What do you mean by this, are you sick? Elderly? In a dangerous occupation? A witness in a trial?

You shouldn't say something vague like that. Heh, now I'm curious as heck.

Lauri B
05-18-2005, 04:49 PM
This probably should also go in self-publishing, but I think it's useful for people who spend time in this forum and are considering self publishing to look at the number of titles printed vs the number of titles that sold more than 500 copies.

This was printed in this week's Publisher's Weekly:

IUniverse by the numbers

2004
18,108: Total number of titles published
14: Number to titles sold through B&N's bricks-and-mortar stores (nationally)
83: Number of titles that sold at least 500 copies
792,814: Number of copies printed
32,445: Number of copies sold of iUniverse's top seller, If I Knew Then, by Amy Fisher

2003
15,028: Total number of titles published
7: Number of titles sold through B&N's bricks-and-mortar stores (nationally)
76: Number of titles thtat sold at least 500 copies
700,930: Number of copies printed
10,186: Number of copies sold of iUniverse's top seller, The Sweater Letter, by David Distel

Sheryl Nantus
05-18-2005, 04:54 PM
still better numbers than those of PublishAmerica.

:D

brinkett
05-18-2005, 05:31 PM
Nomad, thanks for posting this. Very informative.

For comparison purposes, can we see how many titles were published by traditional publishers/presses, and how many sold more than, let's say, 5000 copies? Is this information available anywhere?

Lauri B
05-18-2005, 08:11 PM
Nomad, thanks for posting this. Very informative.

For comparison purposes, can we see how many titles were published by traditional publishers/presses, and how many sold more than, let's say, 5000 copies? Is this information available anywhere?

Other than going on Bookscan and trying to extrapolate numbers based on sales at the chains, you'd have to take a publisher's word for it. I'm not aware of any single clearinghouse of information like that, although I'd love to see the numbers.

One figure I read recently in a reputable trade pub. was that 197,000 books are published a year--don't know if this includes self-published books or not.

James D. Macdonald
05-18-2005, 08:33 PM
32,445: Number of copies sold of iUniverse's top seller, If I Knew Then, by Amy Fisher

Recall that Ms. Fisher wasn't charged any money up front by iU and they produced at 30,000 copy first run by offset. Hardly a typical author.

Jaws
05-18-2005, 08:40 PM
One figure I read recently in a reputable trade pub. was that 197,000 books are published a year--don't know if this includes self-published books or not.
That is not an accurate measure of the number of books actually published. If it's the figure I think it is, it actually represents the number of ISBNs assigned that indicated actual availability in 2003. (2004 figures will be preliminary for another couple of months.) That means everything: self-published, vanity press, and commercial publishers; trade, educational, professional, and specialty markets; multiple editions of the same book (e.g., a hardback and a trade paperback, or multiple covers); and so on. The number of commercially published trade books has been between 95,000 and 110,000 each year since 1993, with a slow but not steady uptrend.

Lauri B
05-18-2005, 09:14 PM
That is not an accurate measure of the number of books actually published. If it's the figure I think it is, it actually represents the number of ISBNs assigned that indicated actual availability in 2003. (2004 figures will be preliminary for another couple of months.) That means everything: self-published, vanity press, and commercial publishers; trade, educational, professional, and specialty markets; multiple editions of the same book (e.g., a hardback and a trade paperback, or multiple covers); and so on. The number of commercially published trade books has been between 95,000 and 110,000 each year since 1993, with a slow but not steady uptrend.


Thanks for the correction, Jaws. Yikes! What a giant number, though, huh?

James D. Macdonald
05-18-2005, 09:21 PM
A 110,000/year is a large number, but not too huge. Recall that a B&N superstore may have 400,000 physical volumes in stock.

Lauri B
05-18-2005, 09:47 PM
A 110,000/year is a large number, but not too huge. Recall that a B&N superstore may have 400,000 physical volumes in stock.
Yeah, but that's the total number of volumes in stock--lots of those are likely to be multiple copies of the same book, and many of them may be books published several years before--it's not like B&N is only selling books published in the current or past two years (although many of them are). So if you have 110,000 books published every year and 400,000 total volumes in stock in the largest bookstore, there's just not a lot of shelf space available for all of those 110,000 new books.

I actually realized I don't have a point here. Just wow. Lots of books. Lots of paper. Finite reading audience.

James D. Macdonald
05-18-2005, 09:54 PM
I actually realized I don't have a point here. Just wow. Lots of books. Lots of paper. Finite reading audience.

60% of books sold were pubished one or more years earlier. (So much for the story that books only stay on the shelf for three weeks.)

Your normal B&N superstore will, during the course of a year, actually shelve about half of the new commercial releases from that year. They may not stay on the shelves long -- only long enough to find out if they have an audience or not -- but they'll physically be there.

Different stores will have different subsets of the new releases from that year on their shelves. The ultimate effect is that every trade book is shelved somewhere.

There are around 8,000 bookstores in America and about 7,000 other stores that stock books.

mreddin
05-18-2005, 10:31 PM
Does anyone know if this total publication figure includes anything with an ISBN assignment? (192,000 was the last projection I saw for 2004).

1) How many of the total are new editions or revisions of existing titles?
2) How many of these are POD/Vanity that are not really being marketed
or stocked in bookstores anyways? Between PA and iUniverise it sounds
like we're talking about nearly 20%+ of the titles across the board not
including Trafford, Booksurge or any of the other outfits.
3) Are Calendars, journals and day books assigned ISBN's? If so that would
account for thousands "published titles" as well.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's to the vanity/subsidy presses advantage to make the total annual publications look as daunting as possible. Your just a face in the crowd of hundreds of thousands, so why
try to go a traditional route when you can publish with us and avoid
all the rejection?

(I recognize there are legitimate reasons for self publishing or going to
a company like iUniverse, I'm just noticing how quick the vanities play
up the publishing volume figures when it seems the major uptick comes
from them in the first place.)

Mike

mreddin
05-18-2005, 10:36 PM
60% of books sold were pubished one or more years earlier. (So much for the story that books only stay on the shelf for three weeks.)

Your normal B&N superstore will, during the course of a year, actually shelve about half of the new commercial releases from that year. They may not stay on the shelves long -- only long enough to find out if they have an audience or not -- but they'll physically be there.

That's comforting to know. Any idea how much sales volume does a title need to move a month to have a shot at remaining on the shelves? The ABA says a "healthy" profitable bookstore generally has 4 inventory turns a year (averaged out across all the books on it's shelves.) Would B&N keep a book if it sold 4 copies a year? While this sounds piddly, if you sell 4 books across 1000 stores annually over the course of a few years you end up with your typical "midlist" sales figures I belive. (5000 to 7500 is the figure I've seen most commonly.)

Thanks,

Mike

brinkett
05-18-2005, 10:43 PM
60% of books sold were pubished one or more years earlier. (So much for the story that books only stay on the shelf for three weeks.)

Is that 60% of books shelved in bookstores, or 60% of books sold through all available channels?

Getting back to the total number of books published traditionally, do the figures being batted around include eBooks (published through an eBook publisher, not self-published)?

James D. Macdonald
05-19-2005, 12:30 AM
Is that 60% of books shelved in bookstores, or 60% of books sold through all available channels?

That's 60% of books sold through bookstores.

The huge number of books is actually a huge number of ISBNs. That includes multiple editions of the same title, reports from the board of fisheries, ebooks, Mom's Family Wall Calendar, vanity and self-published books, dictionaries, etc.

All of this is not to say that publishing through iUniverse (or any of the vanity PODs) is a good idea. It can make sense in certain narrowly defined areas, but please make sure you know what you're doing before you even think about it.

James D. Macdonald
05-19-2005, 12:33 AM
As far as sales of midlist books (that is to say, most trade books), average sales are 2 to 3 copies per store per year.

Jaws
05-19-2005, 12:57 AM
Just as a point, even a substantial proportion of trade books are never intended for B&N/Borders. All those Christian romances (the technical term "romance," not as in "smoochy" or "bodice-ripper")? They're technically "trade" books, and that's slightly over 1,000 (that is, about 1%, believe it or not) of the total. And so on. Then, too, at least 1/3 of the total comes from regional presses, so a B&N in Seattle might carry it but one in Atlanta wouldn't dream of it—and vice versa.

The "national saleable universe" appears to have held fairly constant at around 55,000 titles per year since <i>Thor Power Tools</i> and the eventual collapse of the old distribution system in the early 1990s. I don't know whether this is coincidental or cause-and-effect. The difference is that the regional presses have somewhat more presence in the chain stores in 2005 than they did in 1995, as do some of the specialty publishers (example: in 1995, you wouldn't have found anything from Tyndale except the NIV Bible, but today a typically sized B&N/Borders will have from 15 to 25 Tyndale titles). This is what has really reduced "shelf life": not the greater number of books, but the slightly greater recognition that Stalag Luft 10014 doesn't meet as high a proportion of the customers' needs as it did two decades ago.

brinkett
05-19-2005, 04:37 AM
That's 60% of books sold through bookstores.

The huge number of books is actually a huge number of ISBNs. That includes multiple editions of the same title, reports from the board of fisheries, ebooks, Mom's Family Wall Calendar, vanity and self-published books, dictionaries, etc.

Thanks for the info.



All of this is not to say that publishing through iUniverse (or any of the vanity PODs) is a good idea. It can make sense in certain narrowly defined areas, but please make sure you know what you're doing before you even think about it.
I have no intention of publishing through iUniverse or any of the vanity PODs. I've been doing a lot of reading lately about the industry and a lot of numbers are thrown out, always by people with a vested interest in either traditional publishing or self-publishing (both "true" self-publishing and vanity/PODs). It would be nice to have a way to verify them.

One thing that's surprised me is just how few copies most books sell, and I'm talking traditionally published books. In the country I live in, 5000 copies is considered a best-seller. I'd be curious to know how many copies a midlist book sells before going out of print. Anyone have an average figure?

James D. Macdonald
05-19-2005, 04:45 AM
One thing that's surprised me is just how few copies most books sell, and I'm talking traditionally published books. In the country I live in, 5000 copies is considered a best-seller. I'd be curious to know how many copies a midlist book sells before going out of print. Anyone have an average figure?

I'd hate to try to guess. Sales figures are hard to come by, except with real best sellers where the publishers are bragging, and even then its more likely to be number printed rather than number sold that gets reported.

mreddin
05-19-2005, 05:00 AM
Recall that Ms. Fisher wasn't charged any money up front by iU and they produced at 30,000 copy first run by offset. Hardly a typical author.

I also doubt she got a templated cover design, anyone know? How did the retail price of her book compare to other iUniverse authors?

I'm not trying to pick on iUniverse, I just think using a celebrity (Jamie Farr anyone?) to skew sales figures for pitching the service to unknown writers does a disservice to them.

Mike

victoriastrauss
05-20-2005, 08:24 PM
This probably should also go in self-publishing, but I think it's useful for people who spend time in this forum and are considering self publishing to look at the number of titles printed vs the number of titles that sold more than 500 copies.Fascinating numbers, Nomad--thanks for posting this.

- Victoria

veinglory
07-09-2005, 08:55 PM
Given iuniverse's up front fees these become expensive books. I wish these figures were circulating as widely as the usual myths (Grisham did it etc).

wardmclark
07-09-2005, 10:36 PM
I did my first book through IU. I wouldn't do it again, but at the time, it seemed just the right thing for my small-market, social-political commentary book.

Were I to do it again now, I'd probably use lulu.com or something along those lines. I've sold something between 170-180 books as of my last count, though; not bad for IU, and solely because of my own efforts, of course.

I've done both self-publishing and (in process) a traditional deal. I can see reasons and situations for both.

Dave Sloane
12-11-2005, 11:07 AM
Before I went with AuthorHouse I called I-Universe and explained that
I wanted to submit my hard copy manuscript and have them do the
data entry. The girl then got really snotty...At least AuthorHouse let
me submit my hard copy and I like the finished product. Some of us
computer illiterates don't have the time to learn Word.

Also, some dude had a website a while back all about how I-Universe
screwed up his cover. Great site with the cover...a picture's worth a
thousand words and the cover they did for him totally sucked.
Do the search and try to find it. You'll be glad you did.

GHF65
12-11-2005, 09:17 PM
Well, Dave, as an IU author myself, I can say that they did a fine job on my cover. They did a fine job of printing the book. They did a fine job of selling me copies, and they did a fine job of sending me expensive advertising opportunity offers. They did what they did just fine. They sent me fine templates for printing my own postcards and bookmarks, and they sent me fine press releases to send to the newspapers and pre-formatted emails to send to my friends. They got me interviewed by the local paper, which turned me into a minor local celebrity (did I mention this is a rural area where the winner of the chili cook-off gets a front-page spread and a place in the Christmas parade celebrity line-up?) but resulted in few sales because no one could find the book in the stores. My horse shoer and vet each sold more consignment copies than Amazon, B&N or IU combined. They did it, by the way, because they loved the book, not for the dollar-a-copy they wind up with for reselling them at the cover price, leaving me kicking myself for not taking the time to do a better job of searching out a small press in the first place.

My book has sold, to date, 137 copies. A few of them sold online, but most came right out of the back seat of my truck ("Psssst! Wanna buy a book?"--*shudder*). When IU contacted me recently to find out if my book was ready to be published, I fired back a brief but prickly email pointing out that they'd already published it . . . two years ago. Nice, professional atmosphere. I turned down their generous offer to publish my second book at a much higher cost than the first (guess their expenses have skyrocketed as the subsidy cost has doubled).

Before I went with IU, I contacted Firstbooks (Authorhouse, now). The decision not to choose them was based entirely on an article in PC Magazine ranking IU first among POD publishers. I have no idea on what they based that ranking, as IU is no different from any of the other POD gangs circling the thrashing crowd of would-be authors in predatory glee. If you're happy with Authorhouse, that's great. I can't imagine being happy with POD no matter whose imprint is on the spine, so I won't belabor that. I've got a friend who went with Booklocker and is convinced her book was purposely sabotaged (yes, she's that paranoid). I've got other friends who've run the gamut of POD and been equally startled when they failed to make back their own expenses. I've spent a lot of time talking my students and friends out of going POD. I'm starting to feel like a TV evangelist.

So it goes. I wish you luck, Dave, but before you tout Authorhouse as the top of the heap, shouldering as you do so the weight of possibly luring another unlucky author into the feeding frenzy, check your sales figures, see how many friends can find copies in the local bookstore, and spend some time researching in Writer's Guide to Markets other more "traditional" publishers for your next effort.

While you're at it, trust me when I say Word isn't difficult to master and it's well worth the effort if you intend to continue writing for money. You can obviously type. Formatting is esay to learn, and many markets require that submissions--even hard copies--be formatted to their specifications. You'll be glad you took the time, believe me.

~Joanne

veinglory
12-11-2005, 09:42 PM
I think it is unrealistic to expect a printing company to work from a hardcopy for the same price as a pre-existing electronic file. The amount of extra work involved is high even if the text is scannable (immense if not).

Sheryl Nantus
12-11-2005, 10:43 PM
you can type posts in a forum but can't type out your novel into electronic format?

:D

seriously, if you don't want to do it yourself spend a few bucks and get it done by someone who CAN do it - many publishers are accepting manuscripts electronically and you really don't want to lose your ONLY copy due to a house fire or some awful happening.

:)

Dave Sloane
12-12-2005, 09:38 AM
I never said that AuthorHouse was top of the heap, and I could write a long
letter about what's not so great about 'em.

Anyway, thanks for your lengthy response and GOOD LUCK!!

Dave Sloane
12-12-2005, 09:45 AM
Get a primitive like me to do what you sensibly suggest--IM-POSS-IBLE!!

GHF65
12-12-2005, 04:56 PM
A "primitive", eh? :ROFL:

Well, you're a talented writer--obvious from your posts--and I wish you well. I didn't mean my post as criticism, only as a cautionary tale.

As for Word, if my SO--a mechanic who until recently thought the 'net was the devil's own work--can overcome his primitive nature and learn Word, so can you.

You brought back a submerged memory that made me giggle. I used to be addicted to a manual typewriter. I got into the romantic notion that if I couldn't manage to write all my work longhand (my handwriting became illegible midway through the first page), then my trusty Smith-Corona would take me to the halls of erudition on its crumbling blue back. I still have a big box of manuscripts from that era, mostly faded and unreadable. I spent days retyping the best of them into my computer last year and burned them on CD. Now, even if no one else ever sees them, at least I can read them without dragging out the CSI kit to reconstruct the type.

I really do wish you would think about trying something other than POD. You've got something going on, fella. Share it!

Joanne

Project nachonaco
07-24-2006, 05:47 PM
Is there any reason I should or should not go with this company?

A local author (around my own age I might add, dunno if this is relevant but it's still pretty cool) got published through iUniverse.

What advance can I expect from them?

jchines
07-24-2006, 05:52 PM
Once you finish paying them to publish your book, you'll start out several hundred dollars in the hole. Have you checked their website and publishing packages?

As vanity/self-publishing types go, iUniverse isn't too bad. Personally, I'd probably go with Lulu.com if I was going to self-publish, but that's me.

If you're looking for advance-paying publishers though, iUniverse definitely isn't where you want to be.

Tilly
07-24-2006, 05:53 PM
IUniverse, as far as I'm aware is a pay to play vanity POD publisher. If you're looking for advances and readership, they're not ones to have on your list.

Here is a thread about them:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983

(Also, it's best to use the index at the top of the Bewares and Background Checks board to find previous threads about the publisher or agent you want to ask about, and add your question to that thread. The thread pops to the top, and it keeps all the pertinant information in one place.:Sun:)

Project nachonaco
07-24-2006, 11:45 PM
Egads, my bad.

For some reason I'm still thinking of the purge.......

Also, I found her book at B&N, as well as on Amazon....

Should I get into contact with her to see what her experiences were?

Could it be that iUniverse is SOMEWHAT reputable, but not entirely?

Tilly
07-25-2006, 12:03 AM
Could it be that iUniverse is SOMEWHAT reputable, but not entirely?

I think for what it is, IUniverse is reputable. But that's if you want a vanity POD. I certainly wouldn't call it a scam, IIRC they're pretty upfront about what they do. And if the author's experiences were positive, I can see why they'd recommend them. But what is suitable for one writer may not be suitable for another.

Getting into the online stores is normal with POD presses, but not very helpful. PublishAmerica is a terrible vanity POD, and even though the books show up on online stores the authors sell on average about 75 copies. It's just not as helpful or important as it sounds.

jchines
07-25-2006, 12:14 AM
Could it be that iUniverse is SOMEWHAT reputable, but not entirely?

What Tilly said. iUniverse has never struck me as a scam the way PA and certain others do. But it is a vanity publisher.

Getting on to B&N.com and Amazon only means the book has an ISBN. But pick any 10 iUniverse recent releases, then try to find any of them in your local bookstores. Best of luck...

Project nachonaco
07-25-2006, 12:50 AM
Well, I know that she has a book in my Barnes and Nobles', so I'm assuming she paid and passed the editor's choice....

My parents think it sounds like an okay deal, like, I should aim for something else but it'll do.

James D. Macdonald
07-25-2006, 12:54 AM
It's entirely possible for a local author to talk a local B&N into carrying a copy or two of an iU title (or a book that he printed in his basement, for that matter). What would be impressive would be finding a copy on the shelf in a B&N that's outside of the author's driving range.

James D. Macdonald
07-25-2006, 12:57 AM
Why shoot low? Why start off with a vanity press? They'll take a good book as fast as they'll take a bad one. If your book is good (i.e. a book that lots of people want to read) you can get it published by a commercial press. If it isn't going with a vanity won't help.

Don't bet against yourself. Start with the publishers that will pay you, and will get your book on the shelf in every B&N in the country.

PVish
07-25-2006, 12:57 AM
Is there any reason I should or should not go with this company?

A local author (around my own age I might add, dunno if this is relevant but it's still pretty cool) got published through iUniverse.

What advance can I expect from them?

Anyone who pays the set-up fee can get published by iUniverse. If you want to use a POD publisher successfully (meaning you earn your investment back within a few months and eventually make a modest profit), you need to have a readership already in place and you need to target a definite niche that is too small to interest a commercial publisher or university press.

You also need a way to market your books. If you do lots of speaking engagements about your subject, you have a good chance to come out ahead. Otherwise, how will you sell your book?

Project nachonaco
07-25-2006, 01:04 AM
It's listed on Amazon as well....

CaoPaux
07-25-2006, 01:51 AM
Since anything with an ISBN can be listed with Amazon, that's not a useful gauge of a publisher's quality or effectiveness. Amazon's "sales" figures are slightly more than useless, but only slightly.

Tilly
07-25-2006, 01:59 AM
It's listed on Amazon as well....
People buy very differently from online sites than they do from a bookstore. They usually have a specific title in mind, and don't often browse. Also, there's a huge number of titles, the chances of a reader stumbling across the title of a new author are really low. The chances of them buying the book, even lower.

That's why so many POD books have no Amazon ranking. No copy of the book has been sold. Many more have an Amazon ranking in the millions, meaning one person bought the book (that's likely to be someone they knew). Even when they have an Amazon ranking better than that, their sales aren't great.

In a bookshop, people browse and pick up new authors.

This is why, even though POD books are available from most online retailers, their sales are tiny.

I think it comes down to what your goals are in getting your work published. There is no real substitute for commercial publishing houses, and they take on new authors all the time.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck :).

Ralph
01-22-2007, 07:05 PM
Last entry on iUniverse was dated 7/24/06. Is there anything morer recent.

LloydBrown
01-22-2007, 07:55 PM
It's still a vanity publisher. Nothing's changed.

James D. Macdonald
01-22-2007, 08:14 PM
Still a pay-to-play vanity POD. Still a bad idea for any writer.

Arkie
01-22-2007, 08:37 PM
I believe IUniverse offers different packages and I think they name their packages after jewels. They sent one to me last month unsolicited, and called it a special offer. I don't recall if it was the emerald package or ruby package or whatever, but I do remember the cost was $999.00.

James D. Macdonald
01-22-2007, 10:09 PM
Nah, the Jewels packages are from some other pay-to-play vanity POD. iU does have various imprints, though ... Writers Club and so forth.

Ralph
01-30-2007, 10:15 PM
I don't think Writers Club is an imprint any longer. I published my first novel with them in 2000 and the whole process was very positive. I am in the middle of publishing my second novel with them and it has been a nightmare. They have become rigidily market oriented (their market, not the author's). Beware of the STAR program trap. The chances of being selected seem slim to none and seems primarily a marketing gimmick to promote income for iUnverse. As of now I'm not sorry that I went with them again but I am sorry I went with their most expensive program, Premium Plus, which is the only way to qualify for their STAR program.

Moltten
02-16-2007, 10:00 PM
In my opinion the key is to keep writing. If you have exhausted the traditional publishing route, then perhaps POD is the way to go if you are a real writer. Writer's write, get the book out on POD and keep writing. At least two books a year is good or one at the very minimum. POD or not, you are living your dream and passing down the ideas you want through the book. To me, stopping to seek acceptance by traditional publishers is a waste of time. I just focus on doing what I do and allow it to speak for itself. I believe with this conviction the work will be noticed. Kind of like the tale of the little puppy trying to catch his own until he realizes that all he has to do is go on his way. The tale follows him. So just write, write and write ... get your work critiqued by an editor and just keep writing. If no traditional publisher shows up, then go to POD and get it out there. Then move on to the next one.

James D. Macdonald
02-19-2007, 06:56 AM
There are worse things than not being published.

Being published badly is one of them.

Joanna_S
03-07-2007, 05:09 PM
A friend of mine is a cover designer for iUniverse. She loves the company and often talks about interesting books that come to her for designs.

If you want a vanity publisher, iU isn't a bad choice. At least you'll get a good cover if you happen to get my friend. She's very talented and I know firsthand how much she cares about each and every book she designs. It's just her nature. Remember that every company is made up of individuals, each of whom brings a unique perspective to the job.

But as with any vanity publisher, be sure that's what's right for you before doing it. Only you can know that.

-- Joanna

army_grunt13
05-02-2007, 08:16 PM
A friend of mine is a cover designer for iUniverse. She loves the company and often talks about interesting books that come to her for designs.

If you want a vanity publisher, iU isn't a bad choice. At least you'll get a good cover if you happen to get my friend. She's very talented and I know firsthand how much she cares about each and every book she designs. It's just her nature. Remember that every company is made up of individuals, each of whom brings a unique perspective to the job.

But as with any vanity publisher, be sure that's what's right for you before doing it. Only you can know that.

-- Joanna
I have a friend who works for them as well. Actually, she was my publishing assistant, and we just became pretty good friends. I went with them on my first book, because I had exhausted all the agency routes that I could think of. And yes, their cover art is VERY well done, though I've actually got a buddy of mine doing the cover art for my second book. While my end goal is to still get picked up by one of the "big houses," I have been pleased thus far with my experiences with iUniverse.

The biggest snags with supported self-publishing, and POD in general, are the lack of commercial advertising, and the cost of the books. My books sell for $18.95, when they should really be around $12 - $15 (at most). One thing I do like about iUniverse is that their contracts are non-exclusive, and are only for three years. Makes things a lot more flexible! Will I go with them again? Perhaps. It all depends on how things are going when my second book is ready to publish (probably around September / October).

grommet
08-20-2007, 05:20 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I thought it deserved notice:

http://www.weeklydig.com/news-opinions/news-us/200708/its-story-time

Apparently, an I-universe author claimed his book was selected as part of the big O's bookclub. He even posted a transcript of his June visit to the program on his website. Of course, the visit never happened. Needless to say Harpo has come out denying they know anything about this man or his book.

grommet (http://www.kathrynmillerhaines.com)

JCT
08-20-2007, 05:58 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I thought it deserved notice:

http://www.weeklydig.com/news-opinions/news-us/200708/its-story-time

Apparently, an I-universe author claimed his book was selected as part of the big O's bookclub. He even posted a transcript of his June visit to the program on his website. Of course, the visit never happened. Needless to say Harpo has come out denying they know anything about this man or his book.

grommet (http://www.kathrynmillerhaines.com)

Hopefully we wont see PAvidians jumping all over this before realizing its a sham.

Arkie
08-20-2007, 10:17 PM
That's an odd-looking photo of the man on the couch with Oprah in the background. The man's head looks as if it has been placed on a smaller man's body.

grommet
08-20-2007, 11:02 PM
Arkie,

The pic was created to accompany the article just to show the absurdity of his claim that he was on Oprah:)

By the way, there's more info on his claims, plus a large chunk of the transcript, here (http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070816/NEWS/708160339).


grommet (http://kathrynmillerhaines.com)

JCT
08-20-2007, 11:25 PM
I love the fact the book looks like the size of a tablet. Awesome!

Sakamonda
08-20-2007, 11:43 PM
Like any mega-mogul in entertainment/media, Oprah has an entire department of people working for her whose exclusive job it is to make sure that there are no false/libelous stories about her circulating in the media or online.

I cannot believe this guy honestly thought he could lie about being on Oprah without getting caught. What a moron. Stupid people get what they deserve for being stupid.

CaoPaux
10-02-2007, 12:45 AM
FYI - iUniverse has been bought by AuthorHouse. Here is Writer Beware's take on it: http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2007/09/victoria-strauss-iuniverse-and.html

frisco
04-02-2009, 09:42 PM
I've been giving a little thought to self publishing and have been considering iUniverse. I heard it was affiliated with Barnes and Nobles and offers "supported self publishing" (How much support remains to be seen.)Anyone have any experience with this company?

James D. Macdonald
04-02-2009, 10:09 PM
I've been giving a little thought to self publishing and have been considering iUniverse. I heard it was affiliated with Barnes and Nobles and offers "supported self publishing" (How much support remains to be seen.)Anyone have any experience with this company?

They were, at one time, partly owned by B&N. Since then they've been bought by AuthorHouse.

They have the same downsides as any other vanity publisher.

victoriastrauss
04-02-2009, 11:21 PM
iUniverse was once one of the self-pub services I never got any complaints about. Since its acquisition by Author Solutions, however, I've started to get complaints very similar to those I've been receiving about AuthorHouse (poor customer service, delays, problems with quality and delivery).

- Victoria

brainstorm77
04-02-2009, 11:46 PM
I bought a book once that was produced through Iuniverse. I found it to be of good quality.

MickRooney
04-03-2009, 03:19 AM
They were, at one time, partly owned by B&N. Since then they've been bought by AuthorHouse.

iUniverse were acquired by Author Solutions who also own AuthorHouse. Just recently, they also acquired Xlibris.

MickRooney
04-03-2009, 03:25 AM
I bought a book once that was produced through Iuniverse. I found it to be of good quality.

As Victoria has said, since they were bought by Author Solutions the terms of their contract are now similar to AuthorHouse, and buying a book 'once' from iUniverse is not necessarily the same as buying a book 'now'.

wanda45451964
11-04-2009, 08:10 PM
Does anyone know anything about these people?I tried finding a thread on them here, but couldnt or didnt lok in the right place. A man in a city next to me had his new book publsihed by them. I seen it on amazon and they ahve it listed for 14.95 in paper back. I am think that he had to pay to get it published. which mean hes in the same boat as PA authors.

Parametric
11-04-2009, 08:13 PM
When you want to look up a publisher:


Go to Index to Agents, Publishers and Others (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792), which is a sticky thread in this very forum.
Hit ctrl + f and search for the name of the publisher.

You'll find the iUniverse thread here (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694).


I am think that he had to pay to get it published. which mean hes in the same boat as PA authors.

That's correct. iUniverse and all its sister companies (AuthorHouse, WordClay, etc) are pay-to-play.

edit: CaoPaux strikes from the dark like a ninja. :tongue Didn't even get to post the iUniverse thread link before we were shuffled off into the right thread.

James D. Macdonald
11-04-2009, 08:47 PM
Wanda, if you look for publishers by looking on bookstore shelves to see who actually has books in the real world, you're never going to run into another vanity press.

wanda45451964
11-04-2009, 08:55 PM
oh heck, Timothy murphy sends me a email every week about you can have your book published for 399.00. That's what his yesterday email said. I just deleted it like I do Pa's and all the rest of them above, got the one from the Xlbris place alos they are 500.00. whopee you will save a big 100.00 on the price in between them. At least I didnt pay Pa anything, not getting anything from them either. So i am guessing its titfor tat. but I still have my money. Does that mean That this man will be doing no boksignings also?

wanda45451964
11-04-2009, 08:57 PM
Thanks James, this guy was in our home town paper this week. His book is called the Inside man" by Robert Bray.

ResearchGuy
11-04-2009, 08:57 PM
Wanda, if you look for publishers by looking on bookstore shelves to see who actually has books in the real world, you're never going to run into another vanity press.
Except for the few on consignment, most likely in small independent bookstores. But stick to Barnes & Noble, Borders, and others and it will be wall-to-wall real, legitimate, commercial publishers.

--Ken

James D. Macdonald
11-04-2009, 09:05 PM
Except for the few on consignment, most likely in small independent bookstores.

On the Local Authors rack.

CaoPaux
11-04-2009, 09:21 PM
edit: CaoPaux strikes from the dark like a ninja. :tongue Didn't even get to post the iUniverse thread link before we were shuffled off into the right thread.http://foolstown.com/sm/kar.gif

Has everyone seen their latest services? $5,000 for an Author Interview, and up to $20,000 (!!!) for a Book Trailer: http://www.iuniverse.com/Community/AuthorVision.aspx

ResearchGuy
11-04-2009, 09:38 PM
On the Local Authors rack.

True. I have in mind a local independent bookstore in this area that caters to local authors just that way -- strictly on consignment (author 100% at risk) and segregated into two sets of shelves off to one side. Another Sacramento bookstore also put such books -- some of them viewed with a jaundiced eye -- on their own separate shelf. Nothing wrong with that, but the book-buyer has to be looking FOR those books, and will not find them with the commercially published books.

--Ken

James D. Macdonald
11-04-2009, 09:47 PM
This is not to be confused with a genuinely self-published book, where the publisher/author is a fully-professional businessperson. Those can turn up anywhere.

That level of self-publishing requires capital and expertise that most folks just don't have.

Chris P
11-05-2009, 01:54 AM
A friend of mine published his first book with them, and found a traditional (albeit small) press for his subsequent books. He didn't have much bad to say about them, but my ears perked up when he said "these self-publishers will print your book for like $500 or something like that." I don't know if iUniverse charges or not. I was interested in them, especially since their books sell for a more reasonable price than some other SP houses charge. I'm avoiding SP and POD as much as I can, as I don't have the connections, time or energy to publicize my own book.

ResearchGuy
11-05-2009, 02:05 AM
A friend of mine published his first book with them, and found a traditional (albeit small) press for his subsequent books. He didn't have much bad to say about them, but my ears perked up when he said "these self-publishers will print your book for like $500 or something like that." I don't know if iUniverse charges or not. I was interested in them, especially since their books sell for a more reasonable price than some other SP houses charge. I'm avoiding SP and POD as much as I can, as I don't have the connections, time or energy to publicize my own book.
IUniverse is a subsidy (pay-to-play) publisher, not a "self-publisher."

You bet they charge.

I am not persuaded that their list prices are particularly appealing, but some folks do find their services useful.

--Ken

wanda45451964
11-05-2009, 02:57 AM
this man is in his 70s are more. I hope they didnt hit him up for 20,000.

ResearchGuy
11-05-2009, 03:38 AM
this man is in his 70s are more. I hope they didnt hit him up for 20,000.
Who, iUniverse? Its most expensive package is $4,200 (http://www.iuniverse.com/Packages/PackageCompare.aspx).

If someone chooses to spend his money that way, that's his business. I recently heard tell of some who put tens of thousands of dollars (as much as $100,000 if I heard right) into publishing books with one company on the East Coast (not New York, probably not a publising company you have heard of).

--Ken

wanda45451964
11-05-2009, 04:18 AM
wow, hope you get booksignings with that 4,200.00. I seen his book on Amazon and its selling for 14.95 and he has 12 new copies and 2 used copies. But its not listed any where that people wil just find it, you will have to know about it much like Pa. He will be lucky if he gets his money back. 100,000 wow, are they stupid, could buy a house for that.

veinglory
11-05-2009, 04:30 AM
So long as they know exactly what they are getting and are happy with the deal, people can do what they want with their own money.

Cyia
11-05-2009, 04:37 AM
100,000 wow, are they stupid, could buy a house for that.

Careful Wanda. Rule #1 is respect your fellow writer - that means, for one, not calling them stupid.

If you have something legitimate against a company, say it against the company, but don't take it out on the writers. Some people are under the impression that paying out up front is how publishing works for first timers. Those costs are how "back end" presses make themselves look better to people who believe that because they make it look like those "required" fees have disappeared. People who don't know any better, believe it. That doesn't make them stupid.

BenPanced
11-05-2009, 04:44 AM
Remember, Wanda: glass houses and your experiences with PA.

IceCreamEmpress
11-06-2009, 01:28 AM
wow, are they stupid, could buy a house for that.

Wanda, people make mistakes, especially when they don't have enough information. You yourself shared with the rest of us that you have made some mistakes, and folks have done their best to hook you up with good information. What they haven't done is call you names, and you might think about extending the same courtesy to others.

wanda45451964
11-06-2009, 03:01 AM
I didnt mean it that way at all, I am sorry. I just cant believe people would invest that kind of money.

ResearchGuy
11-06-2009, 03:13 AM
I didnt mean it that way at all, I am sorry. I just cant believe people would invest that kind of money.
Some can afford it and have their reasons. And for that kind of money, the folks I was alluding to are probably getting Cadillac quality, even if only for a small audience ultimately.

Heck, some people can afford Rolexes (and Cadillacs, for that matter). I make do with a $50 watch and a Ford.

--Ken

MickRooney
11-06-2009, 03:46 AM
I make do with a $50 watch and a Ford.

--Ken

These days I see less and less people wearing watches because of mobile phones. There's no need to have a device round your wrist just dedicated to telling the time. And, heck, you'll never go wrong with a Ford no matter how beat-up it is!

I just wish self-publishing services worked the same way!

wanda45451964
11-06-2009, 04:53 AM
Sadly they don't work that way at all. Thats true about a ford or chevy. Can anyone explain how that e book thing works? since most publishers are doing this? How do you read them after you buy them from Amazon with out that Kindle device. How do you get paid like that. Just asking.

James D. Macdonald
11-06-2009, 05:13 AM
If you buy a Kindle book, you have to have the Kindle device. Other e-books, other devices (your laptop, your PDA, etc.).

They pay for the books the same way as any other book: The reader supplies a credit card number, the publisher sends the book to the reader (perhaps via a middleman), the publisher sends the author his/her cut.

wanda45451964
11-06-2009, 05:39 AM
So does this mean you don't have to wait like we do now every 6 months to get paid? I looked at one site and they sell ebooks and it says that they can be read in PDF and Html and two other forms, I just can't remember them. I just was thinking PDF format might mean that your adobe reader would read it. Not sure about that one. Just asking. Thank you James. If you want to know something you have to ask before ending with another Pa.

James D. Macdonald
11-06-2009, 06:11 AM
So does this mean you don't have to wait like we do now every 6 months to get paid?

That depends entirely on your contract.

childeroland
11-17-2009, 11:02 AM
In general, how difficult is it to find readers if you publish a book with iUniverse? Anyone know?

Stijn Hommes
11-17-2009, 03:38 PM
Pretty much as hard as with any other self-publishing outfit. But I can think of plenty of other reasons not to publish there.

Try reading this from the Bewares and Backgrounds forum: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983&highlight=iUniverse

ResearchGuy
11-17-2009, 07:41 PM
Pretty much as hard as with any other self-publishing outfit. But I can think of plenty of other reasons not to publish there.

. . .
IUniverse is a subsidy publisher. It is not self-publishing, as the author does not own the ISBN.

Be that as it may, it is very difficult to find readers or make sales of any subsidy published book. But it is also difficult to find readers and make substantial sales of genuinely self-published books. A great deal of preparation is required on the author's part, and a great deal of work. For that matter, the author can have a lot to do to promote sales of commercially published books, as publishers put little promotional effort into most books. But at least they generally have a chance of getting them on bookstore shelves, which does NOT happen with subsidy published books or with the vast majority of self-published books.

--Ken

Ergo
07-04-2011, 10:15 PM
Anybody have any recent experience with iuniverse? I published my first two books with them but in the six years since, so much has changed.

For one, much of their work (including customer service) has been outsourced to Thailand. Second, the prices of their POD packages have more than doubled. Third, their website is always "undergoing maintainance."

Is there any reasonable argument that could compel me to stick with them?

Respectfully,

Ergo

ResearchGuy
07-04-2011, 10:58 PM
Given the number of alternatives, no, there is no reason. Certainly none that I can see. Alas, all of the subsidy-press alternatives are problematic, too. Some might be less so. Booklocker.com has a good reputation. Createspace is proving valuable for some folks. Much depends on how much of the necessary work the author can do himself or herself. Honest-to-gosh self-publishing (author owns ISBN and manages the entire process) is also an option. And of course, if the writer has a commercially viable book, the patience, and the skills (writing ability and more), commercial/trade publishing is an option.

--Ken

James D. Macdonald
07-04-2011, 11:04 PM
iUniverse has been bought by Author Solutions, so it's just another name for Authorhouse.

veinglory
07-04-2011, 11:04 PM
I would agree. The iUinverse approach is obsolete. You can get equivalent services from other providers for little or no cost.

PVish
07-05-2011, 03:41 AM
IUniverse does the Authors Guild "Back in Print (http://www.backinprint.com/)" program for commercially published books that have gone out of print.

Ergo
07-05-2011, 05:04 AM
Oops! My thread has been moved.

Sorry, not my intention to create redundancy. Just getting used to navigating this site.

James D. Macdonald
07-05-2011, 05:32 AM
IUniverse does the Authors Guild "Back in Print (http://www.backinprint.com/)" program for commercially published books that have gone out of print.

They do, or they did?

Is that still true since they've been bought by Author Solutions?

PVish
07-05-2011, 08:39 PM
They do, or they did?
Is that still true since they've been bought by Author Solutions?

Yes, a friend of mine just had her 1989 novel (http://www.amazon.com/Eaglebait-Susan-Coryell/dp/1450296017/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1305854227&sr=1-1) originally from Harcourt republished through them this spring.

Ergo
11-23-2011, 09:18 PM
Received a curious email today...


Dear , iUniverse prides itself on putting its authors at the forefront of not only its operations, but also of the publishing landscape. For this reason, we are addressing the demand for e-books by converting your published book, Nursing the Corn, at absolutely no cost to you. In the last few years, e-book sales have increased exponentially, catapulting digital publishing into a multibillion dollar industry with no signs of stopping. iUniverse recognizes that this surge into the e-publishing era will allow authors to reach wider audiences and sell more books if they embrace the change. We are opening more avenues so you can tap into the continuously growing market of digital readers. Welcome to a bright new day of publishing. Realize your dreams, and e-dreams today. Click here for more information (http://cl.exct.net/?qs=13511d26e7b11ab4e94cf0a6daaa5dfdf4779647e31c81 80ead684203ddb0bd0)



The 'click here' merely took me to IU's FAQ page for e-books.

Sooooo... that's it? It's been 7 years since I worked with them. I just find it odd that they would do this for nothing.

ResearchGuy
11-23-2011, 09:30 PM
. . . I just find it odd that they would do this for nothing.
Perhaps odder that they would do it without permission or advance notice. But then, Lulu has done the same sort of thing, with the result that one book I published now sells an occasional copy on iPad. Maybe the permission is implicit or explicit in the details of the user agreement.

--Ken

J. Tanner
11-23-2011, 09:37 PM
They aren't doing it for nothing.

They are taking 50% of the proceeds in royalties forever.

That is frighteningly high for an hour's work.

They know ebooks can sell.

If you'd like to do an ebook edition learn it yourself and do it for free (there's tons of guidance available) or pay someone a one-time flat fee (typically under $100 for a text novel). But I really recommend doing it yourself to start, both to learn the process for yourself, and to see if sales justify paying someone to do it in the future for other books you've written.

Ergo
11-23-2011, 09:41 PM
Agreed. This has curious written all over it.

I checked their site and my soft cover is priced ar $8.95. The E-book is $6. Sakes! It hardly qualifies as a 99 cent-er.

Makes me wonder if IU is looking for a quick buck or using it as a loss-leader to drum up conversation/referals.

J. Tanner
11-23-2011, 10:07 PM
Not a loss leader. It's a subsidy publishing house for print because they do not believe they can actually make money selling print books. So they make money off of authors.

But by going for a royalties grab on ebooks instead, that means they believe they CAN make money on selling ebooks.

They could end up being wrong, in which case they'll start charging exhorbitant up-front fees for ebook creation just like they do for print book creation.

What I do find curious, is why are they offering to convert a book that they already sell an ebook version of? Seems converted to me...

Deb Kinnard
11-24-2011, 01:21 AM
Erg, do they have the right to publish your OOP book in any form whatever?

Billtrumpet25
03-28-2012, 04:12 AM
I apologize if there is already a thread for this, but I didn't see one, and because I'm generally a guarded person, I wanted to make sure of this company's legitimacy.

I've always been told to be very wary over any company that calls you for publishing opportunities. Earlier this afternoon, I got a call from IUniverse asking if I would be interested in publishing my WIP with them. Being wary, I Googled the company, and it turns out they are a self-publishing vanity company (some of their packages are quite expensive...).

I don't think I'll go with them, yet there's a certain curiosity I have on how "professional" they really are, opposed to how "professional" they claim they are.

Has anyone had any dealings with IUniverse?

Unimportant
03-28-2012, 04:14 AM
They're a standard vanity press: they publish anything, good or bad, if the author is willing to pay.

If your goal is to sell books to readers, stick with publishers whose business model is to sell books to readers. iUniverse will sell your book to you, not to the public.

waylander
03-28-2012, 12:55 PM
Got space in your garage or basement? You'll need it to store the books

Terie
03-28-2012, 01:23 PM
The iUniverse thread is here, and I'm sure a mod will be along shortly to merge this one with that one.

The easiest way to see if there's an existing thread on a publisher is to check the Index.

MEPurfield
03-28-2012, 02:30 PM
I naivly(sp) used iuniverse more than 10 years ago. Back when it cost 99 bucks. Yeah, there are cheaper ways now. Like createspace.

The good thing is they dont give you a hard time to break a contract, at least for me.

Jennifer Robins
03-28-2012, 05:44 PM
I have two books with them and they have called me twice now asking me to pay several thousand dollars and they will promote my books. I told them no and not to call me again. I'm going to send in my cancelation letters and try these two books elsewhere, and not with a vanity.

Jennifer Robins
www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

Maryn
03-28-2012, 06:11 PM
Our daughter, then a high school student, got in on an offer from iUniverse where they covered all the costs for kids in her gifted program who wrote a novel by a certain date, which she and a few other kids did. iUniverse never contacted her or us seeking any additional payment for promotion or anything else.

As an adult, she cringes when the first page of hits for her name always includes a novel she wrote when she was 14.

Maryn, who didn't buy a copy

Filigree
05-17-2012, 04:20 AM
One of my co-workers, who knows I write, said "I just met a local author today. He's one of our shipping company drivers, and he even has a postcard advertising his book!"

"Did he have a copy of his book with him?" I asked, heart sinking when my co-worker nodded. "May I see the card?"

Sure enough, it was through iUniverse. The poor guy is trying to sell his novel for $19 to all comers. I had to explain to my dazzled co-worker that
*where* you publish can be more important than *if* you're published.

Robert Detroit
08-24-2012, 09:04 PM
I have dealt with iUniverse and found them to be very helpful in the process of publishing my memoir, under my real name, and the professionalism was outstanding. Everyone knows how difficult it is to have a memoir published unless the author is famous. This is why I went this route. The only complaint I had was really my own fault, it had to do with the financial department. I had some unexpected expenses and was on iUniverse's payment plan. They couldn't move my payment schedule one week later when I get paid. That's okay though, I do understand. If I had another memoir to publish, I wouldn't hesitate to use them again. As for now, I'll stick to my novels and go the traditional route.

ResearchGuy
08-24-2012, 10:05 PM
?.. Everyone knows how difficult it is to have a memoir published unless the author is famous ....
Maybe, but I have published three so far, with a fourth (memoir/self-help) in process. I pay the authors and pay ALL costs of publishing. And the best memoir I know was commercially published, then republished in a new edition from a much larger commercial publisher. Author far from famous. But if a subsidy press worked for you, best wishes for your success.

--Ken

ellisshuman
08-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Just posted this on my blog:

Why I Left iUniverse
http://ellisshuman.blogspot.com/2012/08/why-i-left-iuniverse.html

mayqueen
10-02-2012, 08:54 PM
Our daughter, then a high school student, got in on an offer from iUniverse where they covered all the costs for kids in her gifted program who wrote a novel by a certain date, which she and a few other kids did. iUniverse never contacted her or us seeking any additional payment for promotion or anything else.

As an adult, she cringes when the first page of hits for her name always includes a novel she wrote when she was 14.

Maryn, who didn't buy a copy
Here's a question. I'm in a similar boat, in that my (real) name is associated with some fun Google hits for a collection of poems I put together in college. Because it was a collective effort and I wanted other people who contributed to get copies, I went with iUniverse. (I was 20. I was new to the internet. I should have known better.) I've since severed my contract with iUniverse.

Here's the thing: my book (and samples of it) are still available on Google Books. I never explicitly agreed to that and I really, really don't want my colleagues to be able to Google me and find it. Am I totally screwed, or can I ask iUniverse to take my book out of Google Books?

veinglory
10-02-2012, 09:03 PM
Googlebooks and other archives take the position that if the book ever existed they can list it.

Ravenheart
02-05-2013, 08:21 PM
Does anyone have any information about this company? I had a sales rep call me today. He sent me a lot of links of course but I wanted to know if anyone had experience with this company and also what the percentage of their take is. I asked this and was told it was in the email sent to me but after re-reading all the information twice I couldn't locate it. The standard is 15% I believe. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks!

Filigree
02-05-2013, 08:48 PM
Read this thread, then assess your options. I'm inclined to be dubious about anyone trying to pitch publication over the phone.

Ravenheart
02-05-2013, 09:16 PM
Sorry I posted my question again before finding this thread. I read your blog post. Thank you for sharing.


Just posted this on my blog:

Why I Left iUniverse
http://ellisshuman.blogspot.com/2012/08/why-i-left-iuniverse.html

James D. Macdonald
03-03-2013, 05:03 AM
It appears there is a current class-action lawsuit against AuthorSolutions (and all its imprints):


Investigation of Author Solutions’ Deceptive Practices

Giskan Solotaroff Anderson & Stewart LLP is currently investigating the practices of Author Solutions and all of its brands (AuthorHouse, iUniverse, Trafford, Xlibris, Inkubook, and Wordclay). Authors using Author Solutions have complained of deceptive practices, including enticing authors to purchase promotional services that are not provided or are worthless, failing to pay royalties, and spamming authors and publishing blogs/sites with promotional material.
If you have self-published with Author Solutions or any of its brands and have been the victim of deceptive practices, please fill out the form below.


http://www.gslawny.com/lawyer-attorney-2103286.html

LaylahHunter
03-03-2013, 10:59 PM
Thanks for the heads up, Uncle Jim -- my mom got taken in by iUniverse a few years ago and has definitely had some of those complaints. I'll forward her the link.

Jennifer Robins
03-05-2013, 08:51 PM
I've been thinking of canceling the two books I have with them, Ghostly Antiques and the sequel. I sent the letter today and hope I don't have any problems getting them canceled. They have called me wanting several thousands $ for promotions and I didn't like that at all. Of course I refused.

CAMDevil
03-06-2013, 01:48 AM
Personally I'm canceling my book with them and trying to join the lawsuit. Messed up press releases, fraudulent charges on my credit card for books I didn't order from them, spamming me with emails for buying marketing campaigns I should have received but clearly did not. I am kicking myself terribly for falling for their sales pitch.

James D. Macdonald
07-11-2013, 11:59 PM
Hilarious letter to a writer from iUniverse reported and discussed here:

http://blog.emilysuess.com/category/self-publishing-writing-freelance/



Hello Kevin,
Such horror stories are from websites that are being sued for racketeering, their [sic] essentially hiring people to write bad reviews about big companies. I don’t expect you to believe me, all I can tell you is [sic] the facts. We’ve been in business for 15 years, published over 91,000 books, we have an A with the Better Business Bureau, we are regulated by the FCC, and our company is a part of the Penguin Random House group. Many of my authors have even returned in recent months to publish their second and third book. I hope we hear from you again.
Sincerely,
Eric Emlinger
PUBLISHING CONSULTANT
Ah, the Argumentum ad BBB: The last resort of the scoundrel. When it comes to literary frauds the BBB is worthless. Notorious vanity press Northwest Publishing was rated A with the BBB on the day federal postal inspectors showed up to confiscate their records and computers. Jim Van Treese, the owner of Northwest, got thirty years in the federal slammer.

Exactly what the FCC (the Federal Communications Commission) has to do with regulating the book business is obscure to me. Does iUniverse perhaps own a radio station?

Racketeering indeed. The only lawsuits (aside from some frivolous and wholly-without-merit suits launched as revenge by various scammers against people who warn newbie writers of scams; suits universally dismissed by the courts) that I'm aware of right now are class-action suits against PublishAmerica (http://www.sfwa.org/2013/03/another-class-action-suit-launched-against-publishamerica/) and Author Solutions Inc. (http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2013/05/class-action-lawsuit-filed-against.html) (iUniverse's parent).

GHF65
12-24-2013, 10:28 PM
I just published my fourth book with iUniverse, and things have gone steadily downhill. The company was purchased by Pearson (Random House, Penguin, etc) to be their do-it-yourself arm. The result is that the new goal of the company has become quite obviously to get as much up front money from the author as possible, then continue to drain the author's wallet with expensive marketing programs. I'm beyond disappointed.

This time around I bought an advanced editorial program just because I've never gone that way and I could afford to give it a shot. The results were fine in that there are no errors that I could find in the book, but I wasted weeks arguing over what the Chicago Manual of Style says about such things as italics and quotation marks. As an English teacher, I know what the rules are and how to bend them, but I decided to go with the flow in order to be considered for the Editor's Choice award. Yeah, I got the award...and when I looked at the list found that there are 1000 titles and the list isn't searchable, so no vendor is ever going to find my book there.

To recap my adventure, I submitted in July and didn't see the book until mid-November. I was right on the ball with every edit, returning the changes within a day. Meanwhile, I was shifted from one account manager to another and repeatedly dunned with surveys that were meaningless since I didn't have the book in hand. To say my responses became moody and angry is an understatement. The marketing department also started calling immediately upon my submission of the original ms back in July, and the rep got testy when I pointed out I wouldn't buy a marketing plan until I'd seen the final product and deemed it worthy of selling. The phone never stopped ringing for five months it took them to birth my baby.

Biggest problem? There is NO coordination among departments.

Biggest disappointment? NO marketing tools included as in the past. I kind of liked the bookmarks, sell sheets and the rest that used to be part of the package. They were nicely done and made it easy for me to market to local shops by just dropping off a free book and a stack of promo materials. No more. Now everything has a hefty price tag. The marketing rep couldn't understand my ire at the delay in printing that cost me the holiday trade I'd been counting on. "People buy books all year." That's what he said. I explained that these are specifically gift-type books and the missed window of opportunity would cost me. His response? Try again next Christmas because "no one will have read it so it will still be a new title." Oh, joy!

End result? A nice enough book--I give them credit for quality--but a cash outlay I'll never recover because it's a small-niche title on which a quarter-page NYT Book Section ad (for a measly $12k) would be wasted.

So it goes. I released a children's book directly to Amazon via KDP and already sold more copies of that than of the iUniverse title. I had to buy a copy of the ebook to check for errors because they don't send one until 8 WEEKS after the title has "gone live", and I put that up on Amazon as well via KDP. It's already sold for Kindle and Nook, so that wasn't much of an issue.

Be forewarned! Unless you have the patience of the proverbial saint and a bank account that allows you some frivolity, this is not the place for you. I'd go with Createspace (Amazon) or straight to Kindle. You're going to do your own marketing anyway, so why add a middleman?

Filigree
12-24-2013, 11:33 PM
You wrote: "The result is that the new goal of the company has become quite obviously to get as much up front money from the author as possible, then continue to drain the author's wallet with expensive marketing programs."

I hate to say this, but wasn't this always their MO? I never used them, but I watched other writers do so.