One hundred percent rejected

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Eussie

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Well I was feeling down for a few minutes...not so bad now but I wanted to share a few stats:

EMAIL QUERIES for Sokorri's Operator: 12 sent, 5 positive replies
MAIL QUERIES : 42 sent, 0 positive replies

I was feeling pretty good a couple of weeks ago. I had almost a 50% positive response to my email queries. I was hoping for at least a few bites with my mail queries. then...nothing but a ton of no thanks slips (40 in all).

Do you think that agents even READ their mail queries? The figures above would suggest otherwise don't you think?

Grrr.


Well, there's my vent, lol
 

vig

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that's a god question

my answer is the numbers do site a trend. human nature say if my job was to find stories and i'm at my computer all day, i'd by the sheer posiblity of strikin gold, take a stab at four a five queries a day, easily, from my email. some due diligece on my part. so i can sleep at night.

you're at your computer, something catches your eye, 1-89 queriees that came to you this week. you read maybe 3 four a day from your email. yes, email queries would seem to give you a better chance.

it's all timing since the universe is one big tsuami waiting to happen.

vig

vig
 

Julie Worth

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I’ve also gotten a poor response from straight queries. That’s why I stopped sending them. Now I always include three chapters and a synopsis. The response rate is much better that way.
 

SRHowen

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E-mail queries if they take them, are quick and easy to say send more or to reject or to ignore--most of my e-mail ones I never heard back on.

My snail mail ones I averaged a positive in a 1 to 3 ratio.

It took 65 rejections before I landed my agent.

Do not send sample chapters unless asked for. A lot of agencies will reject you out of hand for not following their guidelines. Perhaps you need to re-look at your query letter?

Shawn
 

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Julie Worth said:
I’ve also gotten a poor response from straight queries. That’s why I stopped sending them. Now I always include three chapters and a synopsis. The response rate is much better that way.

You make an interesting point. Whenever I've solicited online advice about sending samples, the answers have been pretty well evenly divided. Either "No, don't ever send an agent anything that isn't specifically asked for in the guidelines," or "Sure, go ahead send samples; no one's going to reject you for that."

Since simple advice seems to be so contradictory, I'd like to ask for your practical experience on this matter. How much better has your response rate been since you started including samples and synopsis?
 

arkady

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SRHowen said:
E-mail queries if they take them, are quick and easy to say send more or to reject or to ignore--most of my e-mail ones I never heard back on.

That's always been my (admittedly unproven) opinon on e-queries. They're like phone calls: too easy to say "no" and hang up.

My snail mail ones I averaged a positive in a 1 to 3 ratio.

There you've got me, Shawn. In spite of a query letter that all my test readers think is superior, my positive-to-negative ratio has been 1:53.

It took 65 rejections before I landed my agent.

Well, at only 53 form rejections, that at least makes me feel a bit better.

Do not send sample chapters unless asked for. A lot of agencies will reject you out of hand for not following their guidelines.

You're a published writer and I'm not, so I don't question your credentials. But over the years, I've gotten both Yes and No advice on this point, both sides being equally vehement. I tried including unrequested samples twice, and got a form rejection. But then, the rest of my queries have gotten form rejections, too. I don't know what to think.

Perhaps you need to re-look at your query letter?

That was my first reaction, so I re-did it. Then re-did it again. And again. Each time, my test readers (one of whom has been published) thought it was just fine. Still no luck. I'm at my wits' end. Is it the query, or is it something about the premise itself? I'm fighting in the dark.

 

maestrowork

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If they ask for samples, send. If they only ask for queries, don't send sample chapters. Really, do try to follow guidelines. Editors are very busy people -- they WILL toss your submission out if you don't follow guidelines. You're not the only writers (however good you are) out there.
 

SRHowen

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Sometimes I think we fall into the man, this query sucks, it doesn't get the point across--I'll just include some sample chapters and they will see how great my work is. And off we send them.

Mr. Agent or editor sees that big envelope in their in-box. They asked for query letters only, they even said please do not send unasked for material--but there it is--they know what's inside before they even open it by the size of the package.

They sigh, it's the last one in the box, once they read it they are done for the day. So they open it, in the back of their mind they have that little voice that says this author doesn't read guidelines, or they think they are above them, or they are going to be hard to work with. Now, the writing is good, the query pretty good, the idea sounds good--but there is that voice whispering those things--Mr. Agent or editor tosses it in the box for his assistant to put in a form rejection. He doesn't need a author who is hard to work with, he has about 200 more quires to go through the next day form authors that can follow guidelines, who are willing to work within the rules.

Just something to think about.

Some questions:

Are you targeting agents who rep what you write? I know it seems a strange question, but are you just looking at the fact they rep, say, Mystery--or are you looking at their clients and books their clients have done to find those who rep something close to yours?

Your query--is it simple, direct and to the point, containing info that they need--does it show that you know what they need or might need?

Are those who are reading it for you, your friends who might not want to hurt your feelings?

And lastly, those who make it don't give up--that's the key it seems, just keep going.

Shawn
 

Julie Worth

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maestrowork said:
All you need is ONE "yes."

Well, I'm calling a YES a request for more material. The standard procedure for submitting by the unpublished is: you mail a single sheet of paper with almost no words on it, begging the agent to look at your material. But you really don’t know how to write a query, because, hell’s bells, you’re a novelist, not a blurb writer. And since you foolishly haven’t included your material in the envelope, the answer is NO. You never get to first base, and no one ever reads your work.

But the unpublished don’t have to do that. Many (if not most) agents will accept an MS from a published author without further ado.

So what happens if the unpublished acts like the published? Does she get fined, arrested, put in jail. Or put on a black list somewhere. No, none of those. What often happens is: she gets read.

And what’s true for agents is also true for editors. Last year I sent a query directly to an editor at a big publishing house, telling him about my wonderful thriller. Six months later, no response. So I had it printed up as a paperback and mailed it to him. What was I, an unpublished, unagented, unknown, thinking? Two months later he returned it at his own expense, even though I said he could recycle it. The book was obviously read at least once, and there was a personal letter from him, explaining why he was passing.

So I broke the rules. I didn’t make a sale, but at least I got it considered.
 
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DeadlyAccurate

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arkady, your post could have been written by me. Ever since I was working on my first book, people who weren't my friends told me I wrote well. In my first writing class, the teacher (a published author), agreed I would be published some day, and to an extent I am. But I can't get anyone to read my novels, and I don't know why. People say my query letters are good (recently edited in this very forum because of the rejections), but I've only gotten requests for samples twice.

I'm too stubborn to give up, though. (Did three more queries today, one to Russell Galen; don't say I'm not optimistic.)
 

maestrowork

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you’re a novelist, not a blurb writer.

I disagree. We're WRITERS. Period. If we can't write a decent 300-word business letter (which is what a query is), then what chance is it that our 100K novel is any good?

It's not "rocket" science to come up with a good query letter. There are lots of books, articles, online resources on how to write a good one. If it takes 1 year to write and perfect the novel, shouldn't we invest some time to polish our queries?

Publishing is a business. You need to be "professional" to succeed in the business, and writing a good query is part of this business. Agents and editors are not only looking for a good book; they're also looking for professional writers who will deliver on-time and professionally.

We can break the rules if we want. But everytime we do that, we run the risk of hurting ourselves because we come off as unprofessional.



 

dragonjax

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Julie Worth said:
Well, I'm calling a YES a request for more material. The standard procedure for submitting by the unpublished is: you mail a single sheet of paper with almost no words on it, begging the agent to look at your material. But you really don’t know how to write a query, because, hell’s bells, you’re a novelist, not a blurb writer. And since you foolishly haven’t included your material in the envelope, the answer is NO. You never get to first base, and no one ever reads your work.[/size][/font][/font]
I respectfully disagree with Julie on this one. If you don't know how to write a query letter, learn how. There are plenty of books out there on the subject; my personal favorite is Your Novel Proposal: From Creation to Contract by Blythe Camenson and Marshall Cook. Yes, it sucks to realize that getting published means treating writing as a business, but there you go. Writing a brilliant book won't get you published. Learning how to get the attention of agents and editors increases your chances.

Julie Worth said:
But the unpublished don’t have to do that. Many (if not most) agents will accept an MS from a published author without further ado.
Er...do you mean an unsolicited manuscript? Many, if not most, agents will recycle any unsolicited material without a second thought. Some publishers have a slush pile for unsolicited submissions, so if you want your manuscript to languish in the slush pile for a year or more, feel free. I'm not dissing the idea of submitting material directly to publishers -- but you have to do your homework.

Julie Worth said:
So what happens if the unpublished acts like the published? Does she get fined, arrested, put in jail. Or put on a black list somewhere. No, none of those. What often happens is: she gets read.
Approaching the writing business in a professional, assertive manner is to be applauded.

Julie Worth said:
And what’s true for agents is also true for editors. Last year I sent a query directly to an editor at a big publishing house, telling him about my wonderful thriller. Six months later, no response. So I had it printed up as a paperback and mailed it to him. What was I, an unpublished, unagented, unknown, thinking? Two months later he returned it at his own expense, even though I said he could recycle it. The book was obviously read at least once, and there was a personal letter from him, explaining why he was passing.
So after spending the time and money to get your book printed, you still got rejected. How are you better off?

Julie Worth said:
So I broke the rules. I didn’t make a sale, but at least I got it considered.
Breaking the rules is fine, as long as you know which ones to break. Personally, I think that sending your book as a bound galley isn't the way to go, but more power to you if it works. I admire your tenacity. If you use that to your advantage -- learn the ropes by nailing the query letter and synopsis -- I bet you'll land an agent...or, at least requests to read your thriller. Best of luck.
 

Julie Worth

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Blurb writing is as different from novel writing as novel writing is from writing textbooks, or jokes, or a lot of other things.
 

dragonjax

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maestrowork said:
We can break the rules if we want. But everytime we do that, we run the risk of hurting ourselves because we come off as unprofessional.
Very true. That's not to say, never break the rules. But first, you have to know what the rules are. Sometimes you can bend them creatively and still come across very professionally. And sometimes you can even break them -- but, as Maestrowork said, you risk hurting your image as a professional.

And make no mistake about it: this is a very, very tight community. Some agents and editors have a very long memory. Maybe there is no black list per se, but, as they saying goes, you only have one chance to make a good first impression.
 

dragonjax

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Julie Worth said:
Blurb writing is as different from novel writing as novel writing is from writing textbooks, or jokes, or a lot of other things.
Of course. And writing a blurb is not the same thing as writing a query letter. That doesn't mean an author can't learn how to write a query, or a blurb, or a synopsis.
 

dragonjax

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And now, full circle

Dialing back to Eussie's original post, I've queried both via snail mail and via e-mail. At this point, I really don't think it makes a difference. Sending an e-query to an agent who doesn't accept e-queries is probably a waste of time. And there are agents out there who simply won't respond to any query, e- or traditional print queries, unless they are interested in reading a sample. ((shrug))

Eussie, regarding your stats, 5 of 12 is very good. 0 for 42...well, unfortunately, not so much. I believe it was Shawn who asked if you're sure you've targeted the right agents for your work. If you're positive you have, and you're getting a better response via e-mail, and it's the same query in two different media, then heck, stick with what works. And good luck on your requests for partials (or, hopefully, fulls). :Clap:
 

maestrowork

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Julie Worth said:
Blurb writing is as different from novel writing as novel writing is from writing textbooks, or jokes, or a lot of other things.

No one said it wasn't. But as writers we need to master different skills. And business writing is one of them, if you want to succeed in the publishing business as an author. Synopsis writing is a skill -- it's summary. Sooner or later you will have to summarize something -- a movie, a book you read, a textbook chapter. Besides, sooner or later someone is going to stop you on the street and ask, "What is your book about?" I hope you have a short answer instead of shoving the book on their laps.

I'm not saying condensing your 100K ms into a 100-word blurb is easy. It's not. But personally I think it's presumptious to tell an agent: "I can't write a blurb if my life depends on it, so you will just have to have faith in me, and invest your precious time and read my 500-page masterpiece to find out." Seriously, if I were an agent or editor worth my keep, I would toss that away. I ain't got time to read every ms. that comes my way. I have to spend my time wisely, and one of the way for me to find out is via queries.
 

Eussie

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dragonjax said:
Dialing back to Eussie's original post, I've queried both via snail mail and via e-mail. At this point, I really don't think it makes a difference. Sending an e-query to an agent who doesn't accept e-queries is probably a waste of time. And there are agents out there who simply won't respond to any query, e- or traditional print queries, unless they are interested in reading a sample. ((shrug))

Eussie, regarding your stats, 5 of 12 is very good. 0 for 42...well, unfortunately, not so much. I believe it was Shawn who asked if you're sure you've targeted the right agents for your work. If you're positive you have, and you're getting a better response via e-mail, and it's the same query in two different media, then heck, stick with what works. And good luck on your requests for partials (or, hopefully, fulls). :Clap:

I'm fairly sure I've targeted the right people...I've been armed for months now with writer's market and five books on query and proposal writing. My book is a psychological thriller so I targeted only those agents who listed 'thriller'.
I'm persistant though...not giving up yet!
 

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Eussie said:
I'm fairly sure I've targeted the right people...I've been armed for months now with writer's market and five books on query and proposal writing. My book is a psychological thriller so I targeted only those agents who listed 'thriller'.
I'm persistant though...not giving up yet!

Persistence and preseverence.

Good luck!!!!
 

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Eussie said:
EMAIL QUERIES for Sokorri's Operator: 12 sent, 5 positive replies
MAIL QUERIES : 42 sent, 0 positive replies
Your experience mirrors mine. I've only just started so I haven't sent out nearly as many queries as you have, but so far all of my positives (requests for partials) have been to email queries. I've received 0 positives to the ones sent through snail mail. It does make you wonder.

As far as including material with the query goes, I'd never mail sample chapters to an agent who didn't say it was ok in their guidelines, but as a test, I snail mailed four queries yesterday and included a one page synopsis with each. Since I snail mailed them, I'm expecting four no's, but you never know.

I've found that the response rate is better to snail mail queries, meaning that generally you will hear back from the agent. With email queries, the trend seems to be that if you don't hear anything within 72 hours of sending, you never will, or at least that's been my experience.
 

dragonjax

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Eussie said:
I'm fairly sure I've targeted the right people...I've been armed for months now with writer's market and five books on query and proposal writing. My book is a psychological thriller so I targeted only those agents who listed 'thriller'.
I'm persistant though...not giving up yet!
Good for you -- never be daunted! :Thumbs:

I do, however, humbly suggest that you also check online sites for recent sales in your genre. In my humble opinion, Publishers Marketplace is worth its $15/month fee to check, on a daily basis (however many times per day you want), who's selling what to whom. This has given me more tips on trends in the industry than any of the books out there (and I used to swear by Writer's Market and Jeff Herman's guide). If the $15/month is too steep, PM also offers a free subscription to its "Lunch Weekly" newsletter, which sums up all sales for the previous week.

Again, best of luck to you.
 

SRHowen

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Eussie said:
I'm fairly sure I've targeted the right people...I've been armed for months now with writer's market and five books on query and proposal writing. My book is a psychological thriller so I targeted only those agents who listed 'thriller'.

I'm persistant though...not giving up yet!

expand beyond Writer's Market. Try Publisher's Market Place they have a free e-mail version and you may want to subscribe for one month or so to look through their listings. (that's where I found my agent--and saw he reped a book much like mine, not just fantasy/horror, but based in Native American myth) also try agentinfo.com Someone help me here, what's that other book? Writer's Handbook is one--but there is another--Jeff someone?

Even though the agents rep thriller, still look into them, find a few books by their authors--are any like yours? If you can hit on some agents who rep simular stories to yours, and not just thriller, then you will have a better chance. The agent feels they can sell what you write because they know the editors who will buy it.
 
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