• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

World Building question

Status
Not open for further replies.

WinterDusk14

Non-savvy tech writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
212
Reaction score
24
Location
Philippines
Somewhere around the first chapter of my book, as the characters walked across the church. I begun to write tons of information, specifically the history of how much the religion has changed within the span of two-hundred years.

The history took about, five to seven sentences (or more) each of the five paragraphs.

Is this too much?
 

Windsong

Registered
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
21
Reaction score
3
I'd have to see it in context, but it sounds like it might be a bit much. Try dispersing it here and there rather than in big chunks. Keep in mind I haven't seen it though, so I could be wrong. :)
 

Shweta

Sick and absent
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
6,509
Reaction score
2,730
Location
Away
Website
shwetanarayan.org
I'd say it's too much, no matter how well-done this is. If you have a chunk of history, especially dropped into chapter 1, it's called an "infodump" and is a big reason why people put books down.

I'm with windsong in that you should weave it into the text in little bits at aa time. I would add that you can also hint at changes, let the reader infer them from what you write, rather than explicitly tell the reader all the changes. This technique is called incluing.

Also, are those 200 years of change entirely necessary to the story?


ETA: Moved to basic writing questions.
 

WinterDusk14

Non-savvy tech writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
212
Reaction score
24
Location
Philippines
Here's the context. Don't mind the grammar since its just the first draft, unless the grammar is 'that' bad.
---

Nuns shielded their faces with their long-sleeved gowns as they came across the soldiers. It was forbidden for them to reveal their visage identities. Around five-hundred years ago, practitioners of the Old Covenant were all males. Acolytes that trained would soon become priests, or church guardians, ministers who taught at schools—teaching the fundamentals of their faith. Some would become missionaries to travel in different grounds to spread the word and teachings of Ishnual—the High God, the Prime Genesis, Historian, Carpenter and Maker of Paths, the Lord of All that Has to Come. Ishnual had received many different names and titles, as the Old Covenant was widely accepted in the West and in the South, in the East, religions there were different yet were based on the influences of Ishnual, and parts of the North had small societies worshipping his holiness.

However, sometime around those years back, a single woman, Alyssa Tennet of Meddos, was conceived to be the First Lady of Saints, because of her compassion of others, and having the unique ability to heal every wounds even those that would scar deep and fatal. She was first regarded to be a witch, or a demon-possessed, or the Interloper in disguised. But then, wiser priests came to acknowledge Alyssa’s talent as a gift, a blessing from the High God, Ishnual, and that, she be allowed to serve in church of the Old Covenant if she pleased to. And she did as she healed the sick.

Many months later, other women claimed to have possessed the same gifts. Numerous of them failed to produce evidences while some had long disappeared when asked for proof, and a few had used a magician’s trick in the Arts of Skin Tapping but was discovered quickly. And from then on, the First Lady had filed a request to the Cardinal that women too, must be allowed to serve their god in the same way as men ought to do.

It wasn’t until three years had passed, when the Council of the Covenant has finally agreed upon the First Lady’s request. Though, there were conditions, strict conditions that women must follow if they wished to enter the church’s thresholds as a servant. First of the conditions was obvious, the woman must be a virgin and without a husband whether in the present or in the past. The second was never to look at the faces of men, for physical features may draw upon desire and lust, nor shall the woman allow her face to be seen by men, for it too, may draw upon desire and lust. After all, children of Ishnual, are human.

Around 2852AC, the practices and traditions of the Old Covenant have evolved, because of nuns disappearing every now and then. And it was discovered that, nuns and acolytes, even some priests, have difficulty in staying apart from each other. Which had then caused the nuns’ flee as the only solution for their shame. This had caused a separation of houses of the religion. House Jesmond for the acolytes, and House Tennet for the nuns. And one hundred years after that, it was enforced by the Hand of Three, that no child older than five may practice in becoming a servant, nun or acolyte, to discipline them while young.

The same discipline could not be said in this day’s religious era. Women were allowed to enter the churches as servants regardless of their age and history. It was by the words of the 31st Pope of the Holy Covenant of Ishnual that ‘nothing stays forever as life moves on’ believing that no matter how sinful or evil one was once, as long as they accept Ishnual with all their heart and soul, Ishnual would grant them forgiveness’. Many have protested even faiths of the Nich’Tella Crid had come to argue whether or not was this decision to be an act of heresy or a ‘change’ as the pope had said. The 31st Pope, Que’Elazar III, had only nodded and smiled saying, ‘that is not for me to answer, it is our god’s.’ And as time passed, nothing had seemed to change, until recently, when people began to take advantage of the sudden change of tradition, when beggars began to enter churches proclaiming that they wish to become servants of Ishnual, and then came the whores when whoring became illegal. Servants of their faith were under protection of the Old Covenant, therefore, voiding all crimes and sin they had committed, unless the church had decided to relinquish them—however that was controversial.

And now, what had remained of the holiness of the Old Covenant? Little. Hypocrites and heretics continue to fill the churches of such immorality, and only a few, mostly remote, regions where the Old Covenant had established had remained sacred.
 

WinterDusk14

Non-savvy tech writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
212
Reaction score
24
Location
Philippines
Wish I read your post earlier Shweta... I'll minimize the history as much as I could and simply have some hints put in rather than infodumping.

Thanks for your suggestions, Windsong and Shweta.^^
 

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
16,768
Reaction score
4,663
Location
Scotland
Can you introduce yourself in the Newbie Forum, Winterdusk?

It's often easier to give constructive comments if something is known about the person behind the submission. Tense, grammar and other writing issues could be because English is not your first language, or it could be youth or inexperience.

And Welcome :welcome: -there's many Forums here containing a vast amount of information on all sorts of writing topics. Take your time to browse. You may well find many of your questions are already answered in other posts and threads. Experiment with the search function above.
 

Histry Nerd

Moving Forward!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
294
Reaction score
84
Location
Texas. It's like a whole 'nother country.
Hey, WinterDusk -

This is good history, but I can't tell if it's relevant to the story you're telling.

I'd probably mention the nuns covering their faces, forbidden by their vows to reveal their identities to men or something like that, and go on from there.

If the characters are familiar with this history, they won't remark it and the reader can figure it out later as they explain it to someone else (if it's relevant). If not, they'll wonder at it as the reader does, and someone else can explain it to them later (if it's relevant).

If it's not relevant, you can leave it in your background notes and explain it in a few years, when your world has become so popular you have to put together an encyclopedia.

Hope this helps.
HN
 

Dale Emery

is way off topic
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
1,429
Reaction score
311
Location
Sacramento CA
Website
dalehartleyemery.com
One way to make historical information relevant is to stimulate a character to talk or think about it. A character might see or hear something that triggers a memory. A character might (if it's relevant) ask a question about some puzzling aspect of the church.

The more significant the stimulus, the more deeply the character will respond.

For example, early in Greg Iles's Blood Memory, the main character returns to her childhood home for the first time in 15 years. As she approaches, she sees a dogwood tree. It's the tree under which her father died 23 years earlier. The character then recalls some of the key events of that night. This takes a page or so, maybe 300 words.

Given the obvious significance of the tree, those 300 words of back story feel right.

So give a character a trigger, a good, relevant reason to think or talk about the history of the church. Then relate only the aspects that are relevant to that trigger. If the trigger is strong and the backstory details are relevant to the trigger, the reader will come along.

Dale
 

Wyatt

Registered
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
43
Reaction score
6
Location
Colorado Springs
It felt like I was reading an interesting history book. I think if this info was spread out through the first few chapters it would be much better.
 

Axelle

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
149
Reaction score
30
Location
France
I agree, this is definitely too much. If I were you, I'd mention the interdiction for the nuns to show their faces, and go on with the story. If the backstory of the church is important, you can work the rest in in smaller chunks, perhaps by having one of the character research information or asking questions.
 

ishtar'sgate

living in the past
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
3,801
Reaction score
459
Location
Canada
Website
www.linneaheinrichs.com
Here's the context. Don't mind the grammar since its just the first draft, unless the grammar is 'that' bad.
---
As requested I haven't addressed grammar too much. The parts I'm suggesting you omit are in bold and any suggested revisions are underlined. It's often difficult to know when to stop with accumulated research material..I think the thing to keep in mind is that you are not teaching history, you are setting the scene. This is only a quick adjustment I might make if it were my own.

Nuns shielded their faces with their long-sleeved gowns as they came across the soldiers. It was forbidden for them to reveal their visage identities. Around five-hundred years ago, practitioners of the Old Covenant were all males. Acolytes that trained would soon become priests, or church guardians, ministers who taught at schools—teaching the fundamentals of their faith. Some would become missionaries to travel in different grounds to spread the word and teachings of Ishnual—the High God, the Prime Genesis, Historian, Carpenter and Maker of Paths, the Lord of All that Has to Come. Ishnual had received many different names and titles, as the Old Covenant was widely accepted in the West and in the South, in the East, religions there were different yet were based on the influences of Ishnual, and parts of the North had small societies worshipping his holiness.

However, sometime around those years back,But then a single woman, Alyssa Tennet of Meddos, was conceived to be the First Lady of Saints, because of her compassion of others, and having the her unique ability to heal every wounds even those that would scar deep and fatal. She was first regarded to be a witch, or a demon-possessed, or the Interloper in disguised. But then, wiser priests came to acknowledge Alyssa’s talent as a gift, a blessing from the High God, Ishnual, and that, she be allowed to serve in church of the Old Covenant if she pleased to. And she did as she healed the sick.

Many months later, When other women claimed to have possessed the same gifts. Numerous of them failed to produce evidences while some had long disappeared when asked for proof, and a few had used a magician’s trick in the Arts of Skin Tapping but was discovered quickly. And from then on, the First Lady had filed a request to the Cardinal that women too, must be allowed to serve their god in the same way as men ought to do.

It wasn’t until three years had passed, when the Council of the Covenant finally agreed upon the First Lady’s request and women wishing to enter the threshold of the church as servants were to be virgins and never look at the faces of men for fear of drawing upon desire and lust, either in themselves or in the men upon whom they looked. Though, there were conditions, strict conditions that women must follow if they wished to enter the church’s thresholds as a servant. First of the conditions was obvious, the woman must be a virgin and without a husband whether in the present or in the past. The second was never to look at the faces of men, for physical features may draw upon desire and lust, nor shall the woman allow her face to be seen by men, for it too, may draw upon desire and lust. After all, children of Ishnual, are human.

Around 2852AC, the practices and traditions of the Old Covenant have evolved, because of nuns disappearing every now and then. And it was discovered that, nuns and acolytes, even some priests, have difficulty in staying apart from each other. Which had then caused the nuns’ flee as the only solution for their shame. This had caused a separation of houses of the religion. House Jesmond for the acolytes, and House Tennet for the nuns. And one hundred years after that, it was enforced by the Hand of Three, that no child older than five may practice in becoming a servant, nun or acolyte, to discipline them while young.

The same discipline could not be said in is not practiced in thiis day’s religious era. Women were are allowed to enter the churches as servants regardless of their age and history. It was by the words of the 31st Pope of the Holy Covenant of Ishnual that ‘nothing stays forever as life moves on’ believing that no matter how sinful or evil one was once, as long as they accept Ishnual with all their heart and soul, Ishnual would grant them forgiveness’. Many have protested even faiths of the Nich’Tella Crid had come to argue whether or not was this decision to be an act of heresy or a ‘change’ as the pope had said. The 31st Pope, Que’Elazar III, had only nodded and smiled saying, ‘that is not for me to answer, it is our god’s.’ And as time passed, nothing had seemed to change, until recently, when people began to take advantage of the sudden change of tradition, when beggars began to enter churches proclaiming that they wish to become servants of Ishnual, and then came the whores when whoring became illegal. Servants of their faith were under protection of the Old Covenant, therefore, voiding all crimes and sin they had committed, unless the church had decided to relinquish them—however that was controversial.

And now, what had remained remains of the holiness of the Old Covenant? Little. Hypocrites and heretics continue to fill the churches of such immorality, and only a few, mostly remote, regions where the Old Covenant had established had remained sacred.

Just my two cents. Make of it what you will.
Linnea
 
Status
Not open for further replies.