My novel vs. the camel.

tomothecat said:

How to I make it over this pesky camel's hump?

Click to expand...

One straw at a time ;-)

Given what just happened in the most recent scene, what is the inevitable, immediate consequence of that? What would your main character do next, in response to what just happened? What would a key subplot character do next, given what just happened? Your answers to those questions (or some similar questions) will tell you what the next scene must be.

Dale

If it always happens, what did you do last time? It must have worked, like it or hump it. Also the idea of having so much going on must be exciting. You'd never know what would clarify out of the turmoil.

Plot is overrated, IMHO. Plot is a noun. It is something a book or story has. In writing, it is not a verb. It's obvious that thinking of it as a verb is killing your story, so stop murdering your story before it has a chance to become a book.

Get the story down on paper for the first draft, then look for signs of how to do a plot structure AFTERWARD. As long as you get one in by the time you're finished, it doesn't matter when you do the work--no one's going to know the difference in the end.

I recommend one of two things.

1) Just keep writing. This is a first draft. Worry about smoothing it out and making sense and the finer points of plot later.

2) Take a break to draft your query letter. It won't be your final query letter, but it could help you focus on the heart of the story, and then you can return to your work with that vision firmly affixed as you push forward.

Award yourself a cookie for every plot hole you create. Sure you'll have to go back and fill them all in eventually, but you're still moving forward in the meantime.

Nicole

I don't think tomo is saying that she has prolems 'just writing' or 'making sense of it all' but that she doesn't know how to proceed. I personally have experienced a little of that, but not to that extreme. On my latest WIP I wrote the opening scenes, then I knew of some good stuff that was coming up but I wasn't there yet. Well I eventually sat down and slogged through it, like the people above me are suggesting you do.

But I have a couple other suggestions if that's simply not working for you. The first one I have used from time to time:

Just insert a list in your manuscript of what needs to happen leading into the next 'good part' for example:

End droid's capture by Jawa's scene.

* Luke and Uncle Owen need to buy the robots from the Jawas
* Luke finds out about Obi wan Kenobi and goes off looking for him
* Luke finds Obi who convinces him to leave with him
* Question: how does he get out of his farm duties? Maybe Auntie & Uncle have to die.
* Travels to the space port

Begin Mos Eisley Spaceport scene.

The second method is to 'follow the character'. A lot of writers use this as their main writing technique. That's where rather than you, the writer, trying to organize and control the story, you are 'watching' that personality you created as they make decisions and get involved in things. I tend to use this method to get through those 'humps' you describe because that is a good time to delve into your characters. Actually, they are dips instead of humps -- devoid of action and importance to the plot, but they can end up being the best parts if you use them take a look into your characters.

So one 'follow the characters' technique that might work for you is to imagine that you are a journalist interviewing your characters after the story is over.

"So tell me Luke, how did you end up leaving the farm and hooking up with Han Solo."
"Well it all started with some droids and Obi wan Kenobi."
"Right, so how did you end up with the droids?"
etc etc

I think that if you write out a sentence (a sort of mini-synopsis) for each chapter, then you will be more easily able to get from point A to point B to point C and so on.

tomothecat said:

And then the same thing always gets in the way: Oh yeah. There has to be a PLOT.

Click to expand...

Why?

Just write the story. Plot follows.

That sucks about the agents passing on your work, but don't let it paralyze you too much on the first draft. the important thing is to get it all down on paper and then you can go back and read through it to get a sense of how the plot flows, etc.

The other option is to do some plotting for the course of the book. I usually decide where I want to begin and where I want to end up first. Then sometimes I start writing and see what I can do to get there. Sometimes I'll change the beginning or the end along the way or on editing, but it helps to have it there.

I also spend my daydreaming time (i.e. time when I'm driving or slow time at work) figuring out what else I want to see happen in the story. Usually I find that the more I do this, the more I find connections to the ultimate plot/ending point and then I'm able to write those.

But again, don't let the rejections stop you from writing your first draft. The first draft doesn't have to be good-it just has to be THERE.

Good luck and kudos to you for starting that next project while waiting to hear back on your current project!

tomothecat said:

So I thought, but two agents have said my writing was good, or "fine" or "brilliant" or "dazzling" between them, but both passed on account of poorly-paced plot.

Click to expand...

Poorly-paced is different from not having any plot at all. Just take out the stuff that's not necessary.

tomothecat said:

So I thought, but two agents have said my writing was good, or "fine" or "brilliant" or "dazzling" between them, but both passed on account of poorly-paced plot.

Click to expand...

So now you know something you have to work on in the second draft. Much easier to do once you know what the story is, what has to go into it and where you want it to go then trying to guess beforehand and lockstepping creativity out of the novel so you don't get "lost", IMHO.

Like Ferret said, "poorly-paced" doesn't mean the plot is bad. It just needs a little "umph."

I was reading a small, but brilliant, book in B&N the other day. I can't remember if it was written by Elmore Leonard or James Ellroy but it was a "how to write good fiction" book. He had ten tips that he explained, literally, in two or three sentences. The book was only about 40 pages long.

One of his tips would help you with the "poorly paced" plot problem (say that five times fast!): Leave out the stuff people skip.

For instance, when I read a Tom Clancy novel, as soon as he launches into the specs on whatever ship or plane is in the scene, I skip until I see dialogue. I want story not a manual on what the particular plane, train, or automobile can do.

I'd say to pick up your pace, cut the stuff people skip, and concentrate on more dialogue.

Dale Emery said:

One straw at a time ;-)

Given what just happened in the most recent scene, what is the inevitable, immediate consequence of that? What would your main character do next, in response to what just happened? What would a key subplot character do next, given what just happened? Your answers to those questions (or some similar questions) will tell you what the next scene must be.

Dale

Click to expand...

Great advice. This is exactly how I write and why I don't outline first. I have a general idea of where I'm going and let the characters decide how to get there. If you ask yourself these questions you will be sure to come up with another scene - and then another - and then another.
Linnea

I usually try to work around humps by focusing on motivation rather than plot. When I hit one of those points (and they come frequently for me while drafting a novel), I ask myself two questions:

What is the character's goal?
What is preventing the character from achieving that goal?

Pretty simplistic, true. But usually the simplicity of the questions helps me to refocus on what should happen next in the story. And it forces me to keep my plot true to my character's motivations.

Tomo, I wouldn't worry too much about a couple of agents not liking the plot pacing. Everyone is looking for something different.

Re: cut out the parts people don't read. Of course, you always want to cut the fat, but don't be too quick to chuck the "musical ribbons filled with dancing unicorns and glittering stars." Vivid imagery and a unique style will be a major plus for many agents, particularly those who handle literary fiction.

You've received a lot of great advice here, Tomo. I agree completely with Mikeland. The summary of any story is the character's goal and the obstacles standing in the way. Keep to this mantra at all times and you'll stay the course of a pretty darn good story.

I think a lot of writers get so caught up in the wonderful characters they've created (which is just too mcuh fun and admittedly the primary joy of writing fiction) that they lose focus on the tale-telling. Every story is about the characters driving it, however, something has to happen in order to get those characters to react, yes?

I'm not a plot-outliner, but I am a character chart-er. Heh. By the time you figure out your cast, the story's plot will practically be on auto-pilot. Seriously. Your main character's long-term goal (what he wants to achieve by the end of the book) is helped and hindered by myriad short-term goals (one goal for every scene leading to the end). And his flaws? OMG! That's the best part. His greatest strength is also his greatest weakness. If there were a "secret" to telling a good story, that would be it.

tomothecat said:

How to I make it over this pesky camel's hump?

Click to expand...

You don't. You'll waste away in that vast wasteland of the dromedary brain drain.

Sorry, someone had to tell you.

Rick-whose tongue is planted firmly in cheek

Maybe you're a poet.

Plot, like sh*t happens as the characters do whatever they need to do. I'm pushing the MCs from A to Z, and I get stuck between G & H. So I write like I do mazes, back to front.

Throw up a number of 'points' between G&H say G1-G12 and work backwards. If H is a villian's demise--then G12 is his taunting and dying. G11 the MC is winning, G10 the MC is sort of winning, G9 the MC is getting her ass kicked, etc. Add or delete as needed then flesh out these salient factors from top to bottom.

I refuse to worry about plot. The little notes you have on napkins are the starting point. The real question is what does the character in question do about it? Follow the internal logic of the character and you've got your plot for that bit. Of course, I'm a total pantser so this is what works for me.

tomothecat said:

So I thought, but two agents have said my writing was good, or "fine" or "brilliant" or "dazzling" between them, but both passed on account of poorly-paced plot.

Click to expand...

I think that the pacing is the key of these "humps" that you are talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong, but let's say that you're trying to write a novel, and you're trying to get from point A to point B. Timing and logic tell you that this portion of the novel should be around, let's say 30 pages, but when you type point A, and then type point B, it only arrives at around 5 to 10. Tell me if I'm seeing this wrong.

Often, you may try to put a lot of fluff, or wild descriptions in to lengthen it. The problem lies in the fact that when these descriptions don't actually do anything, the reader will just end up skipping over them or becoming frustrated. Don't get me wrong, not everything has to advance the plot per se, but it must be important. Either to character development, or to world development, or something. AND, any character or world development you do MUST be vital to either the plot or to the overall character arc. I'm just repeating what Aristotle said.

The solution is to take point A, and point B, and not stretch them, but move them. Point B is no longer B, but point D, E, or F. Find out what other events are necessary to bring about point X in the future. The key lies in putting in new events, in keeping the action moving, while not wasting all of your plot right away.

I believe that this is what the agents meant when they mentioned the poor pacing. Don't throw all of your plot points out at once, but don't let yourself drag over every word either.

-giusti

Consult Mark Twain's Innocents Abroad (Or, the New Pilgrims Progress). His writing once duked it out with a camel, and the camel lost.

A few things I've done:

Walk through the story from another character's viewpoint. What do they want? How are they going to get it? How does that relate to the story?

When the next bit seemed boringly predictable (they had carefully planned the best thing to do and were busy doing it), how can somebody else throw a monkey wrench in the works? What will they do now that their carefully-laid plans are all messed up?

For each chapter or scene: what is the character trying to do or avoid? Who and what is making this difficult? When he/she does/doesn't get what he/she wants, what will the next decision and action be?