• Basic Writing questions is not a crit forum. All crits belong in Share Your Work

Okay, help with this. - passive "matter-of-factly" writing

Status
Not open for further replies.

BlueLucario

Blood Elves FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
2,627
Reaction score
220
Location
South Florida
Hey, don't be mad for posting or anything. I just sort of need help. I just got an email from someone regarding a review of my story.(Which I recieved weeks ago.) And she said this...

As far as the story goes, your sentences are too clipped, and there is
not much flow. Arrange some of your sentences to incorporate two or
three of the smaller ones. It's best to have them of varying length
to reduce monotony.

and this...


Your characters are two dimensional and not very believable. You have not built up any kind of suspense, or apprehension of the coming events. The writing as a whole is very shallow in its depth. It is like you thought up a single scenario and just threw everything else in to bulk it up.

I didn't understand what he meant.
Your biggest problems are
with smoothing out the beginning and adding more prose and
descriptions to your scenery.

I had others saying the same thing.

In other words it lacked prose. Like

I think the reason why the characters seem so...flat... is because you've been writing very passively.

"The chicken looked both ways, and then he crossed the road. the mud was damp and stuck to his feet. he yanked his foot out of it and continued on. and then the car hit him. he screamed, "Save me" and then died."

I finally know what my problem is and I couldn't say it in words. It's not the "show, not tell" it's passive writing. I read books, regarding narration. I read Bourne Identity, Acts of God, and I was going to read the DaVinci Code. I studied the narration of the stories, and studied for hours. I needed prose in my writing. But I don't know HOW to write the story as prose. I know I should just write the story. But it wouldn't hurt for me to at least try it out and see what happens.

It's like, Jack opened the door. He slowly took off his clothes. He gets into bed and lies next to his wife.

you know, "matter-of-factly" which bores the reader to tears.

I wanna know how to try this out.


2.) How can you balance dialogue and Narration? I seem to have a problem with using too much dialogue to move the story along. What happens if Dialogue overpowers the story?

Also I tend to have pacing issues. I move through a scene too fast. It felt like I was rushing through the story and not slowing down.
 
Last edited:

James81

Great Scott Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
5,239
Reaction score
1,017
1. When you feel compelled to type a "." make a conscious decision to use a comma instead. Not always, but at least once in a while. Also, adjectives are your friends. Don't just tell us WHAT the character is doing, tell us HOW he is doing it and/or what he may be feeling when he's doing it. For example (your example):

Jack opened the door. He slowly took off his clothes. He gets into bed and lies next to his wife.

could be "beefed up" like so:

Jack slowly opened the door and stepped quietly into the room. He took off his clothes and crawled into bed next to his wife.

Also pay attention to your tense usage. You have both present and past tense in a matter of sentences. You have to keep that consistent or it will confuse the reader.

2. Balancing dialogue and narration can be tricky. Imagine you are watching your story on the movie screen. You hear them saying stuff, but they are also DOING things while they are talking. Not to mention their surroundings play a huge part in the interaction. Your dialogue is the most important thing, but it must "gel" with the surroundings and you must let the reader in on how things are being said and what the character is doing while talking.

For practice, go pop in a movie and watch a scene. Really study the scene and try to capture it into your own words as if you were writing a story about it.
 

Riley

They won't let me be good
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
526
Reaction score
113
Well, I'm sure you'll soon get more answers from people more skilled than I, but I think I have just a little experience in the subject that might help.

1. Just skipping to different parts of the story, I think your writing sounds very stilted. "First this happened, then this, then that, then those. . . " Try making your sentences different lengths. Chop some. Compound others.

Prose/narrative is hard to explain. It's something you get from reading and practicing a lot. (Ray Bradbury is a good study in this, by the way.) In most of your story, you tell everything that happens. There's no description, no prose, so to speak. Prose flows (rhyme not intended)--that is, it not only tells its story, it shows what's happening, reflects upon it without violating the point of view. Let's take an example from your piece:

I turned to the direction of the voice and lifted my head. There was Solana standing at the door, whose clothing looked professional. Her hair was pulled back into a bun and she was carrying a black leather suitcase. Her outfit looked surprisingly neater than the clothes she had on earlier this morning.

For example, here, you tell the readers that Solana's clothing looks professional. You could convey this just as well and much more narratively is you mentioned what she wore without saying that it's professional. Think along the lines of business suits, slacks, polished shoes, etc.

If, earlier in the story, you mention how Solana's clothing was messy, this part will be a nice contrast to it.

I hope that helped at least a tiny bit. It's great to hear that you're working so hard on your writing. I bet you'll get a lot of good answers to this one.

2. Balancing dialogue and narration isn't that bad, if you imagine your story panning out as a movie. Also, if you take a look at how your prose looks on the page, then you'll be able to tell. If you have pages and pages of dialogue, that's too much. If you have pages and pages of narration, that might be too much, too, though there are exceptions.

In general, narration slows down the pacing while dialogue speeds it up and adds drama. If your story sounds melodramatic and too fast, then you probably don't have your dialogue and narration balanced.

Just relax, let the story flow. Let the characters speak and react with their world. That will help a lot.
 

drachin8

post-apocalyptic bunny
Poetry Book Collaborator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
1,070
Reaction score
328
Location
DFW, Texas
Hello, Blue!

I think some of what is getting you is word choice. In your example prose, everything is stated a bit blandly. Doors are opened, people remove clothes, and people lie down. None of the words affect the mood. Nothing gives us character insight. Nothing gives us story insight even.

So, let's take the example and do some very basic fiddling with it to portray different situations.

"Jack opened the door. He slowly took off his clothes. He gets into bed and lies next to his wife."

"Jack inched the door open and slid inside. Piece by piece, he shed his rumpled suit, then crawled into bed next to his lightly snoring wife, praying he didn't reek of perfume."

"Jack banged the door open. With slow precision, he removed his clothes. His wife huddled against the headboard, her face turned away. He laughed, his voice echoing in the spare motel room, and slipped beneath the covers."

I am sure the people here on AW could come up with a thousand more variants on Jack and his wife, each increasingly complex. What you must do in your writing, though, is figure out what the mood is you want in your scene and choose your words accordingly. All three of the sentences above say essentially the same thing, but they each use different words to portray it based on what they want to achieve, the pictures they want to paint. The second two both tell us something about Jack while also telling us what actions are currently being taken. They could be further expanded with some internal thoughts or some external dialogue, but they could also be left alone and still be solid.


For practice, maybe you can take your Jack sentence and try rewriting it for three or four different situations or Jack personalities. I think it would be a great exercise for you.


:)

-Michelle
 

jst5150

Vorpal Comics. Weekly Podcast. Twitch Artist. Vet
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Messages
4,740
Reaction score
1,799
Location
Europe
Website
jasontudor.com
It would seem you're asking a diverse amount of questions and each needs to addressed as a separate entity. If you're so uncomfortable with the one critique, I might first recommend getting another critique and put them side by side. Remember, one is an anomoly; just one instance of something. You can't set a baseline to that. Just ask someone to beta read.

Now ...

Your first quote deals with rhythm or pacing. So, work on rhythm and pacing. Longer sentences build tension and allow for broad description. Shorter ones help time pass faster -- action and pointed moments. You stretch softer moments. More jarring moments are quick and phrenetic.

The second deals with people. Hang around people and watch for details. Try not to write your characters words for them. Sounds goofy, I know, but let the characters write their own words.

The third is probably more to the publisher/agent's taste than anything. Though if he felt he wasn't getting anything out of the words ("My ... our ceiling needs painting."), then maybe you could relook and ask yourself whether or not you've got the right words in the right places.

The fourth quote deals with passive writing. Um, don't do this. It's a cardinal sin. :) Tighten it up.

As to your "2.)", this is something you have to determine as a writer during the draft and in the edit phases. And really, you have to write a bit before you can figure out what your balance is. Umberto Eco seems to favor narration. Elmore Leonard likes dialogue. What's yours?

I'd recommend breaking down each of your issues into one post and letting the AW Forum gaggle address them that way.
 
Last edited:

Stew21

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
27,651
Reaction score
9,136
Location
lost in headspace
I think Uncle Jim tackles a lot of this in his thread. all the way down to the pacing and using short and long sentences.
I'll see if I can find some specific posts in that thread to link for you so you can see it straight from him.
My paraphrase would not do Uncle Jim justice.
 

Nightfall

Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
29
Reaction score
3
Location
Pacific North Wet
Maybe adding sensory perceptions will help enrich and three dimentionalize your prose. How does something make the character feel? What do things feel like to the touch? What smells are there? What is the character seeing? What can they hear? Does it have a flavour? (OK, too many lol cats).

If you remember to think about how the character is sensing and feeling the situation and environment it may help.
 

BlueLucario

Blood Elves FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Messages
2,627
Reaction score
220
Location
South Florida
Why don't you ask the person who critted you?

Er... Because my account was blocked.


All the critters say the same thing. "You use too much dialogue to tell the story, therefore making the story one dimensional. "

I'm a stickler for dialogue, it seems that that's my strength.
 

Stew21

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
27,651
Reaction score
9,136
Location
lost in headspace

Stew21

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Messages
27,651
Reaction score
9,136
Location
lost in headspace
You can't just read the stuff uncle jim tells you. (you can't be a doctor by just reading the medical books). You have to practice.
There are tons of exercises in Uncle Jim's thread and tons of exercises in the writing exercises forum.
I'll give you a couple of links to some on the spot writing threads that might help with your descriptive skills.
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,333
Reaction score
4,578
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
I'm not comfortable with posting the contents of emails on a public forum unless the person who sent you the email has given consent for it. It's one thing to ask for help and say, "Another person mentioned that my sentences were monotonous." It's another thing to quote chunks of that email, which was presumably meant for you and not for the public to see.
 

jst5150

Vorpal Comics. Weekly Podcast. Twitch Artist. Vet
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Messages
4,740
Reaction score
1,799
Location
Europe
Website
jasontudor.com
I'm not comfortable with posting the contents of emails on a public forum unless the person who sent you the email has given consent for it. It's one thing to ask for help and say, "Another person mentioned that my sentences were monotonous." It's another thing to quote chunks of that email, which was presumably meant for you and not for the public to see.
If we're in an academic, nonattribution enviroment (and we are, to a great extent), it's fine. If they were from someone from this board, that's a little too close to home and that would be party foul. Further, by posting the comments, he's not disparaging anyone. He's saying, "Here's what was said. Help me correct this." I think the person critiquing him would find that perfectly acceptible since the goal of the crit was to get the writing on track in the first place. Better the critiquer's words than having to interpret them.

Again, nonattribution and academic setting.
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,333
Reaction score
4,578
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
I think the person critiquing him would find that perfectly acceptible since the goal of the crit was to get the writing on track in the first place.

I've sent PMs to people regarding writing and I wouldn't want chunks of those PMs being quoted elsewhere without my consent, but that's just my own personal preference. I should make this clear in future PMs or emails - and be careful about whom I send them to.
 

jst5150

Vorpal Comics. Weekly Podcast. Twitch Artist. Vet
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Messages
4,740
Reaction score
1,799
Location
Europe
Website
jasontudor.com
I've sent PMs to people regarding writing and I wouldn't want chunks of those PMs being quoted elsewhere without my consent, but that's just my own personal preference. I should make this clear in future PMs or emails - and be careful about whom I send them to.
Again, as I said, if quoting someone from this forum, then that goes outside academic nonattributional thing. I understand your perspective, however. :)
 

James81

Great Scott Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
5,239
Reaction score
1,017
I've sent PMs to people regarding writing and I wouldn't want chunks of those PMs being quoted elsewhere without my consent, but that's just my own personal preference. I should make this clear in future PMs or emails - and be careful about whom I send them to.

Yeah, because honestly, I don't think there is any legality to posting emails/PMs yet.

I personally take the approach that I don't post anything to the internet (whether it be in PM or email) that I wouldn't want posted publicly.

I learned that one the hard way a few years back.
 

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
6,449
Reaction score
1,321
Blue, PLEASE don't spend your valuable reading time reading The DaVinci Code at this point.

Dan Brown, though a genius of suspenseful plotting, is not a very smooth or skilled writer. Since you seem to read slowly and carefully and it takes you quite a while to get through each book, I don't think that The DaVinci Code is a good choice for you.

I'd encourage you to read a book that combines an exciting plot AND eloquent writing AND believable characterization instead.

Have you read So You Want to be a Wizard by Diane Duane? There are some plot points in common with your current book about Lily, and Duane is a really skilled writer.

Or how about The Lathe of Heaven by Ursula K. LeGuin? Or Kindred by Octavia Butler?
 

James81

Great Scott Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
5,239
Reaction score
1,017
^ To add to that, i'm going to give you a doozy of a book (It's 900 pages long lol), but the plot and the writing and the storytelling is so good that it captivates you almost the entire time:

I Know This Much is True by Wally Lamb

His language is simple, but it flows nicely and he manages to keep a 900 page book interesting the entire time. A feat that not just any author can pull off.
 

DWSTXS

Mr Mojo Risin...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
2,504
Reaction score
647
Location
Carrollton, TX
Website
www.pbase.com
^ To add to that, i'm going to give you a doozy of a book (It's 900 pages long lol), but the plot and the writing and the storytelling is so good that it captivates you almost the entire time:

I Know This Much is True by Wally Lamb

His language is simple, but it flows nicely and he manages to keep a 900 page book interesting the entire time. A feat that not just any author can pull off.


I agree with this.
That IS a great book. I am definitely looking forward to Wally Lamb's next book, and I hear it is coming very soon.
 

James81

Great Scott Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
5,239
Reaction score
1,017
I agree with this.
That IS a great book. I am definitely looking forward to Wally Lamb's next book, and I hear it is coming very soon.

Ooh, I didn't know he was writing another one.

You ever read "She's Come Undone"? It's pretty good too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.