Lit mags don't buy clichés... or do they?

William Haskins

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from the virginia quarterly review's blog:


This was supposed to be a blog entry about how authors submit poetry to us covering clichéd topics that there’s just no way we’re going to print. But then I did the math, calculating the percentage of our submissions and published work that contain any of a dozen mainstays of poetic terminology, and found that precisely the opposite is true.

.........submitted.........published
water....19.9% .............24.8%
death....14.1%.............15.2%
blood.....11.7%.............13.8%
stone....11.1%..............16.0%
bone......9.1%...............7.8%
poetry....7.6%...............10.3%
heart......7.5%...............6.7%
fish........7.0%...............5.3%
birth.......5.5%...............7.4%
darkness..3.9%..............17.0%
rust....... 3.3%.............. 2.5%
cat.........2.3%.............. 2.8%

As it turns out, our editor is
all about those dreaded paeans to cats. The moral of the story is that talent transcends topic, I suppose; in the hands of a skilled poet, even stone/bone can be made a vital couplet again.

http://www.vqronline.org/blog/2008/03/14/vital-cliches/
 

Stew21

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This is interesting. Talent does transcend topic in many ways but I looked at the list and determined that I have written poems using 8 things from that list. Yikes. How far does a unique spin go? Treatment of those words can vary a great deal, but to a critical eye, isn't it still just cliche'? hhhm.

I need to get me some new metaphors.
 

poetinahat

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I'm working on a sestina involving none of the cliches at all. Key words: marshmallow, pliers, "nooner", fillip, ganglion, vigorish.

If it doesn't get published, I'll know it's because poetry is too Establishment to deal with my fresh new voice.
 

KTC

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I don't think I have used cat or fish. I'm a cliche...it's only right that I should embrace the cliche. (And PS...this little study does not surprise me in the least)
 

KTC

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I'm working on a sestina involving none of the cliches at all. Key words: marshmallow, pliers, "nooner", fillip, ganglion, vigorish.

If it doesn't get published, I'll know it's because poetry is too Establishment to deal with my fresh new voice.


Or that topic transcends talent.
 

Stew21

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I've used fish.

I wrote that poem for Frank about fishing.


Oh and I've used Cat too. Don't you doubt it.
 

poetinahat

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Or that topic transcends talent.
"transcends talent" -- that is the classiest put-down I have ever received, K. Very Wilde of you.

As mots go, those are two of the bonest. I'm forever in your debt.*


----

*: In other words, I ain't payin'. Kevin: "I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!" Rob: "Catch me first!"
 
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KTC

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"transcends talent" -- that is the classiest put-down I have ever received, K. Very Wilde of you.

As mots go, those are two of the bonest. I'm forever in your debt.*


----

*: In other words, I ain't payin'. Kevin: "I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!" Rob: "Catch me first!"


My good man. I was suggesting that the topic was... No, wait...that the transcendental...no. Wait. Urgh. I was suggesting the opposite of the original, but it gets lost in translation. I swear. That they would reject the talented piece based on the tarnished topic content. People have lost their appetite for the marshmallow, Rob. Ever since the over indulgence of that great fireside ditty, Kumbaya. I swear...that's what I meant. Talent cannot raise the marshmallow to glory. But I love a good Bon mot. Bon appetit.
 

poetinahat

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*chuckle* Even your backpedaling is lyrical.

Back on topic, just some thoughts on cliche: There's an old saw along the lines of "cliches become cliches for a reason". Conversely, originality solely for its own sake wears thin after a while. Dada, for example, was never meant to last; it was an interesting idea, but how many collections of random bits of paper does one need to see to get the point? And after Marcel Duchamp hung that urinal on the gallery wall, he'd had pretty much the last word on found objects as art.

Also, trying too hard to avoid cliche could be just as restrictive as working within cliche. Would anyone forbid himself from using any of those words? It might be an interesting exercise, but maybe 'fire' is the image that really suits.

Finally, I'd suggest that cliches are cliches because they have some sort of universality -- everybody understands them. Sure, love is a cliche'd idea for a pop song, but people write new songs about love - occasionally good ones - all the time.

Except for the cat thing. I mean, get real.
 

KTC

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I have read all the tirades and warnings on cliche use. And I have always insisted that a certain amount of cliche is necessary. As soon as I use a cliche, I hear the click...it is a device to lock a reader in. I am dead against using a mountain of cliche...which is what the real advice should be. But I insist on using the right amount of cliche. I find this device most important in fiction, though. You want the reader to have that 'aha' moment without realizing that they just read a cliche. Cliche connects...whether that be good, bad or ugly, it is at the very least the truth. I try to keep it to a minimum, but there is a magic number. Use it. Avoiding it 100% would be a mistake.
 

JRH

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The whole concept of these or any words being cliched in and of themselves is bogus. It's how they are used in conjunction with other words, generally as similies or metaphores that can constitute a cliche.

Some of them like "death" or "birth can, as topics, embody concepts that "Moderns" feel have been examined so fully in the past that nothing new can be written concerning them, but that too is a fallacy, because attitudes and understanding of such change with each generation, and any failure to draw new insights lies with the Poet not with the subject matter.

It's fairly obvious to me that some blogger/editor was bored and lacking for inspiration and so decided to set up a paper tiger to "rant" on, that is nothing but a waste of time to even consider.

Rejecting old images/concepts as cliched is a copout for those who don't have the talent or work ethic to transcend them.

Think about it.

James R. Hoye, (JRH)
 
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Perks

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I agree. There's nothing cliched about mastering universally strong poetic images. The fact that many poets slide to the same list for references may speak less to copycat laziness than it does to common perception and experience. When those are worked well, it's very fine that they're snapped up by literary magazines.
 

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so love aint cliche yet?
 

KTC

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I think a concept/topic can be a cliche. I see the moon in poetry as cliche. Doesn't mean I don't use it though. In fact, I'm quite shocked it's not on that list. What I was saying up thread, though, I was saying about actual cliches...and how I use them in my fiction.
 

poetinahat

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so love aint cliche yet?
There's always something new to say about love. I give you Gang of Four:

And I feel like a beetle on its back
And there's no way for me to get up
Love will get you like a case of anthrax
And that's something I don't want to catch