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TwentyFour
03-13-2008, 05:59 AM
Far as I know, many of the major PA supporters are all on Search inside, check out the old pipesmoking man, the duck lady, and the teacher...all on this and all say they sell well.

acrooker
03-13-2008, 06:16 AM
It's a very good thing I came here. I have truly learned. It is amazing to me that you care so deeply. You care about people you have never met. I find it hard to understand, but what else is new?

You are correct about many things. One of you was insightful enough to say I was not a serious writer. He was so right. I am not a writer--serious or otherwise. I am a retired Accountant.

PA produced a book for me that I am very happy with. I hired an editor and did not have PA edit anything. The book is fine and anything wrong with it is my fault, not theirs. Their message board is no fun, but not in their contract.

As far as bookstores go, for some odd reason my book is in a Barnes and Noble bookstore. I had nothing to do with the placement of it there. There are six copies on their shelves.

For some reason, so far, Book authors seem to be a very difficult bunch of people to deal with. In this category I do not place professional writers. Professional writers seem to have a much more realistic view of what to expect.

Can you imagine the difficulty of deaing with thousands of people who wrote something and thought it was wonderful?

If you were to have only one percent of authors disgruntled--with PA that would be at least 230 authors.

230 authors can raise quite a ruckous.

My final point, one of you was wise and said I should help people with Parkinson's disease. I do that. The doctors have people call me and I visit and support them. I give them a copy of my book--beats handing them a rumpled up manuscript! To further add to your enjoyment, I was in the VM Hspital 6:30 am yesterday morning with a pre-surgery patient.

'Dick Stodghill does not talk mean to anyone and he is a wonderful writer. So is W Lane Rogers.

I just put this here so you could see the other side of the story. Not every author with PA is to be pitied or looked down upon.

Peace and joy to all,


Alice

acrooker
03-13-2008, 06:20 AM
Guess what? I am the "Duck lady!"

CatSlave
03-13-2008, 06:33 AM
Welcome, Alice. :welcome:

The PublishAmerica forum is only one of many, and we can get rather intense at times.
I hope you stay around and find something of interest on the other forums also.
Browse around for a while and check out what's here.
We're not all bad guys, really. :)

Dave.C.Robinson
03-13-2008, 06:36 AM
It's a very good thing I came here. I have truly learned. It is amazing to me that you care so deeply. You care about people you have never met. I find it hard to understand, but what else is new?

You are correct about many things. One of you was insightful enough to say I was not a serious writer. He was so right. I am not a writer--serious or otherwise. I am a retired Accountant.

PA produced a book for me that I am very happy with. I hired an editor and did not have PA edit anything. The book is fine and anything wrong with it is my fault, not theirs. Their message board is no fun, but not in their contract.

As far as bookstores go, for some odd reason my book is in a Barnes and Noble bookstore. I had nothing to do with the placement of it there. There are six copies on their shelves.

For some reason, so far, Book authors seem to be a very difficult bunch of people to deal with. In this category I do not place professional writers. Professional writers seem to have a much more realistic view of what to expect.

Can you imagine the difficulty of deaing with thousands of people who wrote something and thought it was wonderful?

If you were to have only one percent of authors disgruntled--with PA that would be at least 230 authors.

230 authors can raise quite a ruckous.

My final point, one of you was wise and said I should help people with Parkinson's disease. I do that. The doctors have people call me and I visit and support them. I give them a copy of my book--beats handing them a rumpled up manuscript! To further add to your enjoyment, I was in the VM Hspital 6:30 am yesterday morning with a pre-surgery patient.

'Dick Stodghill does not talk mean to anyone and he is a wonderful writer. So is W Lane Rogers.

I just put this here so you could see the other side of the story. Not every author with PA is to be pitied or looked down upon.

Peace and joy to all,


Alice

Hi and welcome to AW.

I'm glad PA has met your needs. Take a look round the rest of the forum, there's a lot there and it's generally more light-hearted than the PA section.

Dave

DeadlyAccurate
03-13-2008, 06:37 AM
Welcome to the boards.


Guess what? I am the "Duck lady!"

I believe there was a post or two a few pages back that explained the reason for the nicknames, but it's not intended negatively.


I just put this here so you could see the other side of the story. Not every author with PA is to be pitied or looked down upon.

As there are several current and many former PA authors here, I'm sure no one looks down upon them.

IceCreamEmpress
03-13-2008, 06:40 AM
PA produced a book for me that I am very happy with.

Glad it's worked out well for you. I bet you could have gotten a better-quality book printed for you at a lower price elsewhere, but since my time machine isn't working and I can't take you back to do that, I'm glad you're happy with the books you have.


For some reason, so far, Book authors seem to be a very difficult bunch of people to deal with. In this category I do not place professional writers. Professional writers seem to have a much more realistic view of what to expect.

I'm a little confused by the distinction you're making between "book authors" and "professional writers". Professional writers write books, and most commercially-published books are written by professional writers.


Dick Stodghill does not talk mean to anyone

I don't think anyone said he did. What people have said is that the information he gives people is incorrect in lots of respects. And his tone can be dismissive and condescending at times, but I wouldn't call that "mean" and I don't think anyone else here would, either--I think we all agree he's trying to help. He just isn't actually being helpful by giving people lots of misinformation.

If you found that PublishAmerica was the printer that worked best for you, then that's great. More power to you!

However, I think a lot of people are seriously misled by PublishAmerica's marketing, and that PublishAmerica fosters and perpetuates unrealistic expectations by censoring its message board. And that's what people get upset about.

Mel
03-13-2008, 06:44 AM
Welcome to AW, Alice. As Cat said, there's tons of stuff to check out here. Browse around for a bit.

DaveKuzminski
03-13-2008, 06:49 AM
Well, now we know you read this section. I can only hope that you read carefully because we're only trying to get PA to either clean up its act or shut down. Either will suffice. We're not after authors unless they're outright plagiarists like "Cancer Boy" who published a PA book that was almost entirely produced with material that wasn't written by him and that he didn't have permission to reproduce and failed to properly attribute.

W. Lane Rogers
03-13-2008, 07:16 AM
We're not after authors unless they're outright plagiarists like "Cancer Boy" who published a PA book that was almost entirely produced with material that wasn't written by him and that he didn't have permission to reproduce and failed to properly attribute.

Is this a disjointed comment having no context, or is it intended as a misguided warning to Alice?

If it was intended as cleverness, it fails badly.

Jersey Chick
03-13-2008, 07:52 AM
Hi Alice and :welcome:!

acrooker
03-13-2008, 07:59 AM
I am sorry if I confused you. I was merely tying to point out that every issue no matter how thin has two sides.

Naturally, I would be very happy if my publisher saw fit to publish and promote only my book. It would be even better if the legislature would pass a law that everyone had to puchase and read and enjoy my book. That will not happen. I am glad.

Why? I would want to read something else myself. I know about my book.

There is a continuim of satisfaction. Some people are deeply dissatisfied and others are mildly dissatisfied. Some are satisfied. Some are overjoyed. It is their book, their experience. I don't care who you publish with. I don't care whether you love them or loathe them, why do you care so much about PA?

If you told me how terrible your publisher was,or is I would be sorry, but wouldn't try to run them out of business. Why? I have more important things to do.

Sorry,

Alice

acrooker
03-13-2008, 08:38 AM
While you are thinking of an answer, let me make my final observaton on this matter.
20,000 books are a lot of books, be glad PA did them You wouldn't want your publishers to have to wade through that quagmire.They might have their eyeballs burned right out of their sockets and not be able to read and accept your works.

Don't run them out of business--keep them there. If you don't love them, don't do business with them.

I love Toyota cars--just got a brand new Prius. I will leave the Hummers and everything else there for you to choose from.

Let the Buyer Beware!

Thanks for the kind welcome,


Alice

Sean D. Schaffer
03-13-2008, 08:41 AM
I don't care whether you love them or loathe them, why do you care so much about PA?



I wanted to comment on this, but before I do, I would like to welcome you to the Water Cooler, Alice. :welcome: It's good to meet you, and I hope you'll look around at the rest of the forums. :) I know when you read these posts they can seem overly negative, and when I myself found out there was more to AbsoluteWrite than this particular part of the board, I found that I spent more and more time in those places.

The comment I wanted to make is this: you asked why we care so much about PA. I can't speak for the rest of the people here, but I care so much because I was one of their authors, and they basically did not do what they implied they would do. I care because PA hurts authors. I'm one of those that PA has hurt in the past, and I'm only now, some five years later, starting to recover from the devastation my experience with PA caused me.

I went to PA thinking they were going to give me the same treatment as an author with Tor, or Baen, or Random House, would have received. That was the implication I received from their website. And when PA told me not to listen to the naysayers, I naively believed their words more than the words of professionals, because I figured they would be honest with me.

As far as their exact wording goes, they did what they said they would do. But what they implied was that I would receive the kind of treatment Stephen King or Anne McCaffrey get from their publishers. I did not receive any such treatment. They implied that my book would be on bookstore shelves, which did happen in one bookstore in my local area ... because I personally had the bookstore owner place it there on consignment. This is not how the business really works. In the reality of things, publishers are responsible for marketing their authors' books, and the authors are responsible to write. PA basically mislead me and a lot of other writers, into thinking we would be given star treatment. Their carefully crafted wording made them sound like they were promising much more than they really were. That's how they hurt authors, and that's why I care so much about what PA does.

So basically, I worry about this company because I care about my fellow writers. I want their hard work to get the best darned representation they can get. I hate to see anyone go with a company that misleads writers -- especially naive writers like I was five years ago -- into thinking they're going to get something the company never intends to give.

Again, I hope you will look around the boards more. There's a lot more to this site than just the PublishAmerica-oriented forums. Don't be afraid to take a look around. :)

tlblack
03-13-2008, 09:15 AM
Welcome to AW Alice. I hope you'll enjoy all or at least as many of the forums that interest you here. There are many.

I have to agree with Sean here. If you'll look at my avatar, you'll see some of the reasons I am not content with my PA book.

acrooker
03-13-2008, 09:24 AM
I wanted to comment on this, but before I do, I would like to welcome you to the Water Cooler, Alice. :welcome: It's good to meet you, and I hope you'll look around at the rest of the forums. :) I know when you read these posts they can seem overly negative, and when I myself found out there was more to AbsoluteWrite than this particular part of the board, I found that I spent more and more time in those places.

The comment I wanted to make is this: you asked why we care so much about PA. I can't speak for the rest of the people here, but I care so much because I was one of their authors, and they basically did not do what they implied they would do. I care because PA hurts authors. I'm one of those that PA has hurt in the past, and I'm only now, some five years later, starting to recover from the devastation my experience with PA caused me.

I went to PA thinking they were going to give me the same treatment as an author with Tor, or Baen, or Random House, would have received. That was the implication I received from their website. And when PA told me not to listen to the naysayers, I naively believed their words more than the words of professionals, because I figured they would be honest with me.

As far as their exact wording goes, they did what they said they would do. But what they implied was that I would receive the kind of treatment Stephen King or Anne McCaffrey get from their publishers. I did not receive any such treatment. They implied that my book would be on bookstore shelves, which did happen in one bookstore in my local area ... because I personally had the bookstore owner place it there on consignment. This is not how the business really works. In the reality of things, publishers are responsible for marketing their authors' books, and the authors are responsible to write. PA basically mislead me and a lot of other writers, into thinking we would be given star treatment. Their carefully crafted wording made them sound like they were promising much more than they really were. That's how they hurt authors, and that's why I care so much about what PA does.

So basically, I worry about this company because I care about my fellow writers. I want their hard work to get the best darned representation they can get. I hate to see anyone go with a company that misleads writers -- especially naive writers like I was five years ago -- into thinking they're going to get something the company never intends to give.

Again, I hope you will look around the boards more. There's a lot more to this site than just the PublishAmerica-oriented forums. Don't be afraid to take a look around. :)

Sean,

Thank you for your very reasonable answer. I am sorry you had such a terrible experience.

I expected what I got--a book. Well, actually, 5 free copies.

Expectations do play a major role in satisfaction or dissatisfaction. I hope you have a suitable publisher now.

Best regards,

Alice

brianm
03-13-2008, 09:32 AM
There is a continuim of satisfaction. Some people are deeply dissatisfied and others are mildly dissatisfied.

The majority of these people are serious about a career in writing.


Some are satisfied. Some are overjoyed.

The majority of people who state this are not serious about a writing career.


It is their book, their experience. I don't care who you publish with. I don't care whether you love them or loathe them, why do you care so much about PA?

Because they claim to be something they are not and they hurt serious writers. They are a vanity press that derives its income from its authors.

If PA would put a halt to their false advertising, misleading statements, and come clean about their vanity press business model, threads like this would cease to exist.


If you told me how terrible your publisher was,or is I would be sorry, but wouldn't try to run them out of business. Why? I have more important things to do.

If you knew of a clinic that gave out misleading and false information about PD would you be so inclined to not care? What if they stated they had a cure and they falsely led people to believe they could help them? Still wouldn't care?

Most of us are serious about writing and about our careers. We care about other writers who are serious about their careers. If there is a publisher or agent out there preying on writers, we care and we warn them.

PA preys on writers. Therefore, we warn serious writers about PA.


I love Toyota cars--just got a brand new Prius. I will leave the Hummers and everything else there for you to choose from.

Toyota doesn't claim to be a Hummer.

PA claims to be a "traditional" publishing company when they are in fact a vanity press.

The PA threads are just a small part of what AW offers writers in all stages of their careers. I hope you will spend time researching what AW is really all about, as it doesn’t have the greatest of reputations on the PAMB.

Welcome to the cooler.

acrooker
03-13-2008, 10:05 AM
The majority of these people are serious about a career in writing.



The majority of people who state this are not serious about a writing career.



Because they claim to be something they are not and they hurt serious writers. They are a vanity press that derives its income from its authors.

If PA would put a halt to their false advertising, misleading statements, and come clean about their vanity press business model, threads like this would cease to exist.



If you knew of a clinic that gave out misleading and false information about PD would you be so inclined to not care? What if they stated they had a cure and they falsely led people to believe they could help them? Still wouldn't care?

Most of us are serious about writing and about our careers. We care about other writers who are serious about their careers. If there is a publisher or agent out there preying on writers, we care and we warn them.

PA preys on writers. Therefore, we warn serious writers about PA.



Toyota doesn't claim to be a Hummer.

PA claims to be a "traditional" publishing company when they are in fact a vanity press.

The PA threads are just a small part of what AW offers writers in all stages of their careers. I hope you will spend time researching what AW is really all about, as it doesn’t have the greatest of reputations on the PAMB.

Welcome to the cooler.


Brian,

I am overjoyed to see you. I am not promoting PA or telling you to go there.

You stated the obvious a few pages back--I am not a serious writer.

I am a very grateful happy person. Glad to be alive. After you have had your brain drilled into with what seems to be a Black and Decker drill, your publisher is the least of your concerns.

I don't find much to disagree with you about other than a Prius and a Hummer both claim to be vehicles. Did PA say it was Random House? It isn't!

PA fills a niche. I am old, 60 years old.
Alot of PA 's authors are old, they wanted to write a book--they did it.

Would I advise a young aspiring writer to go with them?
No--never!


Alice

Brenda Hill
03-13-2008, 11:19 AM
Brian,

Would I advise a young aspiring writer to go with them?
No--never!


Alice

How about an older aspiring writer?

Welcome!

Marian Perera
03-13-2008, 12:25 PM
Hi Alice, and welcome to the board1 I hope you enjoy your stay here.


While you are thinking of an answer, let me make my final observaton on this matter.
20,000 books are a lot of books, be glad PA did them You wouldn't want your publishers to have to wade through that quagmire.They might have their eyeballs burned right out of their sockets and not be able to read and accept your works.

Oh, I wouldn't worry about that, Alice, for two reasons.

1. PA has published many books of poetry. Most publishers and agents don't handle poetry. Therefore, they wouldn't "wade through that quagmire" at all - the moment they realized someone had submitted poetry to them, they'd send a form rejection.

2. Editors and agents don't need to read an entire book to know that it's not working for them. That's why they don't often ask for fulls (or even partials, for that matter). So they wouldn't get their eyeballs burned out of their sockets.

In other words, if PA didn't exist, I doubt this would place any inordinate strain on legitimate publishers or literary agents.


Don't run them out of business--keep them there. If you don't love them, don't do business with them.

I would have no problem with keeping PA there if it was honest about what it offered its customers (and by that, I mean its authors).

I don't love PA, and therefore I want to help people who haven't yet been taken in by its claims, or people who have published with PA but who have doubts and questions about it.


Would I advise a young aspiring writer to go with them?
No--never!

That's great, but there may be young aspiring writers who submitted books to PA and who are now posting on the message board, confused about why their books are not carried in stores or why it's so difficult to make sales or why they got such a low royalty check.

If they ask such questions on the public board, they will be told that they should be grateful to PA and to promote, promote, promote. I don't think this is good for any aspiring writer's career, whether that writer is young or old.

Marian Perera
03-13-2008, 12:36 PM
I hired an editor and did not have PA edit anything. The book is fine and anything wrong with it is my fault, not theirs.

Another PA author said the same thing to me once. I replied that legitimate publishers check their books carefully for errors, because those books reflect on their reputation among readers. PA does not edit for mistakes, because its primary customers are its own authors (not the reading public). That makes it a vanity press. That makes it not a good choice for the majority of authors.

So for an author to say that all the errors in their book are their own fault, rather than PA's, unfortunately does not exonerate PA.


Dick Stodghill does not talk mean to anyone

I could produce several quotes where Dick Stodghill gave people highly inaccurate information about the publishing industry. As ICE said, he can also be dismissive and condescending. Whether he is a wonderful writer or not, he is often wrong when it comes to agents and publishing.

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 01:37 PM
Alice, you know how I feel.

Professional authors know what to expect from a publisher. PA doesn't give it to them. YOU hired an editor - that's not how commercial publishing works. In commercial publishing, the author works with an editor hired by the publishing company. In some cases several. Most professional authors I know understand they aren't going to have to sell their own books either, at least not the majority. Professional authors collect money from a publisher, they don't give it to them.

I'm glad you're happy, and I know you're not a 'serious writer'. You had a little hobby book and had a good time putting it out. Good for you. I think PA has become a little more revealing on its website - like the 'lower acceptance threshold' line - you just have to be able to translate what they say vs. what they mean. But a few years back, it was very different.

And you have six copies in one B&N - that's good for a PA book. But what if you had six copies in EVERY B&N?

spike
03-13-2008, 01:43 PM
Is this a disjointed comment having no context, or is it intended as a misguided warning to Alice?

If it was intended as cleverness, it fails badly.

The statement about Cancer Boy was neither a warning nor an attempt at cleverness, just stating the facts.

We don't see PA authors as the enemy. We try to treat them fairly and with respect. The exception was Cancer Boy. If you search for Cancer Boy, you'll see what Dave meant. That book was blantant plagerism and tried to portray suppliments as a cure for cancer.

I won't go into my own history with cancer, other to say that cancer makes people desperate and it is evil to prey upon their desperation. Eventually, PA pulled his book. A real publisher would never have published such rubbish.

But he was the exception. That was Dave's point.

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 03:38 PM
At the end of the day, PA is not a good choice for people who desire more than their immediate circle to read their book. Plain and simple. If you're going to all the trouble to hire an editor, you could produce the book yourself through Lulu (they have terrific tutorials for getting the book formatted correctly), and spend a bit of coin to purchase the distribution package.

You'd get the same thing you get from PA - a listing on Amazon and in Ingrams, and the books would be printed by LSI, which is who PA used to use, at least if they're actually using their own press now. You'd be in complete control - no contract, and you set your own royalty. I had a friend who did this, and he got a signing in his local Borders. There was no problem ordering or getting the books either, which some PA authors have when they try to have signings - the books don't show up or PA gives the store the runaround.

Far less hassle that way, IMO, and probably more return for your effort than you'd get from PA. I personally uploaded a project to Lulu yesterday (personal use type of thing, not for sale) and it was a snap. If you want the 'prestige' that comes with having a publisher's name (forgive me if I snort) on the book, make one up and call that your publishing company.

DaveKuzminski
03-13-2008, 04:15 PM
And I happen to work for a cancer registry. I handle approximately 28,000 cases each year and I've been here almost seven years. I've had to personally notify almost 56,000 individuals about their cancer and that included some whose doctors failed to even inform them they had it. The worst instance I faced was telling a husband and wife at the same time that they both had cancer. So, you think I'm going to like someone whose work plagiarizes cancer studies and promises a cure that the author can't deliver and you're worried that I'm threatening someone? I'll let you reach your own answer.

TwentyFour
03-13-2008, 05:00 PM
So...Alice Crooker has arrived and registered on AW...I guess hell has frozen over. Oh well, I've got an ignore button here too.

Oh yes before I forget, welcome to AW!

Jersey Chick
03-13-2008, 05:12 PM
My problem with PA is pretty much the same as what's been stated here. They prey upon new authors and upon those so desperate to be published that they are overjoyed at a mere $1 advance. When the reality sinks in for those who truly believed PA was a foot in the door of the publishing world, and those authors questions this or question that - they are sent demeaning tone letters and slammed on the PAMB. I wonder how many of them, after such abuse, gave up writing altogether? And that's terrible because I'd bet some of them were pretty decent writers, who may have had a shot at commercial publication - and threw it away because PA ripped them to shreds.

I have no problem with PA authors. None at all. I do have a problem with some of the misinformation that has been given - but I'm not entirely convinced that misinformation is deliberate, either.

It makes me sad to see newbies, full of excitement about the fruition of their dreams, only to see those same people return in time full of questions and frustrations because those same dreams have been shredded. It makes me sad when those same newbies post relatively innocent questions, and then are dogpiled by some of the old-timers - left to fade away into the past. It also makes me angry to see that the mantra is to blame the author and that they should be "thankful" that PA took a chance on them. And that they "didn't pay to be published." So they should shut up and accept that $1 and be happy.

Just my $0.02 - FWIW

JulieB
03-13-2008, 05:26 PM
Alice, welcome to AW. I'm glad you found us.

As you can see, the discussion about PA does tend to get rather spirited.

As for me, I just want authors to submit a manuscript to any publisher (not just PA) with their eyes open. Do the research. Know the market (who publishes what type of book). Learn the basics about how the publishing business operates. Have a polished manuscript ready to submit.

A vanity press isn't right for most authors, yet it is for some. People who go into the process after having done their research stand a better chance of being happy with the outcome. This is true for PA or any publisher.

One of the main goals of the entire Bewares sub-form here at AW is to help people make an informed choice.

Anyway, I hope you stick around. As others have said, this is just a teeny backwater of a larger site.

brianm
03-13-2008, 05:34 PM
Brian,

I am overjoyed to see you.

:D


I don't find much to disagree with you about other than a Prius and a Hummer both claim to be vehicles. Did PA say it was Random House? It isn't!

Cleverly worded statements like this one have caused naďve new writers to think PA is on a level with Random House.


http://www.publishamerica.com/facts/index.htm



FACT #8: ALL publishers use digital (Print-On-Demand) technology for printing, from all major publishing houses such as Random House down. In fact, Random House is a major producer of digitally printed books. They also use additional printing technologies, including offset. PublishAmerica uses the offset technology occasionally as well, each time a larger run is necessary.

(Bold is PA's.)

That's just one of many misleading statements on PA's website and when a new writer puts them all together, they get the idea PA does hold the key to commercial publication for them. That is exactly what PA wants them to think but it isn't something PA can (or wants) to fulfill.


PA fills a niche. I am old, 60 years old.
Alot of PA 's authors are old, they wanted to write a book--they did it.

Age has nothing to do with the ability to write a commercially saleable manuscript.


Would I advise a young aspiring writer to go with them?
No--never!

But it's okay for an older aspiring writer to be ripped off?

Writing is my second career. I'm 51 and when I started researching publishers online, PA was at the top of the google list. I recognised them for what they were almost immediately. Not because I'm smarter or more savvy, but because I knew writing was a business and I had done my homework before I started researching a publisher for my first manuscript.

Unfortunately, many new serious writers don't do their homework (or allow their zeal to become a published author cloud their judgement) and they realize too late that they have wasted a manuscript on PA. Their first experience with a publisher is negative and it affects them for a long time.

I, along with others who post in the PA threads, want to warn aspiring writers what PA can and cannot do for their careers. Because the PAMB is one of PA's most successful recruiting tools and because it contains so much misinformation, we use it (and its members' quotes) to dispel the misinformation and to demonstrate why PA is a vanity press.

It may appear we are making fun of PAMB members by using nicknames and the like, but it isn't our intent.

I am honestly happy to see you here. I don't judge you because of who you have published with nor do I judge you on your writing goals. If you give AW a chance, I think you will find we are a community of caring, decent people.

Best wishes and I hope to see you about the other forums.

Brianm (who is going home for a fortnight in 34 hours and 14 minutes. Not that I am excited or anything like that... :D)

allenparker
03-13-2008, 05:42 PM
I just put this here so you could see the other side of the story. Not every author with PA is to be pitied or looked down upon.

Peace and joy to all,


Alice

Welcome Alice! It is good to have you here. Please come in an join us for a while, have a cup of coffee. Perhaps some brownies or coffee cake will come by later.


I don't pity or look down on PA authors. One reason is I am a former PA author. I had two books with PA and have gone on to another publisher.

I look at all authors the same way. We write. We cry. We all strive to be heard. We all want our words to be read by the masses.

There is a certain honor to any person who sits down and strives to complete a book. Accomplishing that is worthy of my respect. Whether it is a best seller or a trunk novel happy with the lack of light, there is something to be said for finishing the beast.

In that vein, we are all of a brotherhood. We all begin that journey to publication. Some of us will succeed. Some of us will fail. Some will persevere until hell can't stop our success. But the fact remains that our brotherhood is made of people who began and completed a book, a accomplishment which only a few in hundreds can claim.

TwentyFour
03-13-2008, 05:44 PM
They're afraid all the mistakes and errors will show up on Amazon Search Inside.

Captain Morgan
03-13-2008, 05:48 PM
As far as bookstores go, for some odd reason my book is in a Barnes and Noble bookstore. I had nothing to do with the placement of it there. There are six copies on their shelves.

This is very interesting. I had been told for a while that PA does not put its books on physical shelves, but perhaps that is in error, or things have changed. I must say, I am very interested in this book of yours now. Maybe I missed it in some earlier posts, but could you tell me the Title of this book?

Thanks in advance...

DaveKuzminski
03-13-2008, 05:51 PM
I believe the title of her book is Peas.

W. Lane Rogers
03-13-2008, 05:53 PM
So, you think I'm going to like someone whose work plagiarizes cancer studies and promises a cure that the author can't deliver and you're worried that I'm threatening someone? I'll let you reach your own answer.

No, I don't think that. However, I think your comment was utterly off the wall and had no application whatever to Alice's post. And, yes, it did strike me as threatening.

ResearchGuy
03-13-2008, 06:13 PM
. . .
Age has nothing to do with the ability to write a commercially salable manuscript.
. . .
But it can have a great deal to do with the possibility of seeing that manuscript commercially published.

1. Time is not in favor of an writer who is starting out to pursue book publication in his or her 60s, 70s, or 80s. It can easily take five or ten years to get that first book accepted for publication or taken on by an agent (with years left to actual publication) -- and the first one accepted might be the third, fourth, or fifth the writer has actually completed.

2. Energy and opportunity do not necessarily extend equally across the age spectrum. Someone at 30 or 40 is better able to promote himself or herself and his or her books (to agents, publishers, and readers) than someone a generation older -- travel to make appearances or attend conferences, for example.

3. Agents and publishers want writers who can go on year after year producing successful books. A romance novelist, say, in her 30s could have a long career of writing two or three suitable books per year. But if the writer's book is pretty clearly a one-off, that is not (with the rarest of exceptions) of any interest to an agent, whose income is 15% of authors' royalties), nor to a publisher that invests in promoting authors as franchises as well as in promoting specific books.

4. For someone who writes a first book at, say, age 70, the opportunity to improve from book to book over many years of diligent effort is much smaller than for someone who writes that first book at, say, age 25 or 30. Mortality tables and accruing infirmities are unrelenting.

5. Let's face it, age discrimination is real, even aside from that question of whether a writer can establish a continuing franchise of years of commercially viable books.

I know that a lot of folks here hate to hear that sort of thing, preferring the chipper assurances that anyone who writes a good book can see it published by a genuine commercial publisher, but it is not that simple. Incentives and opportunities do change over generations. In a business that has to play the odds and averages, that makes a difference.

For many, half a loaf (or a quarter of a loaf, or a couple of slices) IS better than none, and a meager bird in the hand is worth an entire flock in the bush.

My view is influenced by knowing many writers in their 60s to 80s (ones who first had the opportunity, desire, or both to write at book length, or what they believed to be book length, only after retiring) including those (mostly those, in fact) who have used subsidy and vanity publishing options (including PA). It is harder to generalize when one is acquainted personally with specifics.

--Ken

Mel
03-13-2008, 06:21 PM
Well, now we know you read this section. I can only hope that you read carefully because we're only trying to get PA to either clean up its act or shut down. Either will suffice. We're not after authors unless they're outright plagiarists like "Cancer Boy" who published a PA book that was almost entirely produced with material that wasn't written by him and that he didn't have permission to reproduce and failed to properly attribute.


No, I don't think that. However, I think your comment was utterly off the wall and had no application whatever to Alice's post. And, yes, it did strike me as threatening.

Exactly how is Dave's post threatening? He stated facts. Seriously, I'm curious as to what leads you to think there's any threat in his post.

I imagine if Alice felt threatened she's capable of stating so herself.

DaveKuzminski
03-13-2008, 06:54 PM
Unfortunately, Mr. W. Lane Rogers appears to consider "Cancer Boy" to be a real author deserving of respect instead of considering that my words might have been carefully chosen to point out that not all "authors" are deserving of anything, particularly those that perpetrate a charade by claiming the words of others along with a miracle cure. Ms. Crooker and other PA authors might be entitled to respect as authors, but not "Cancer Boy."

Captain Morgan
03-13-2008, 07:05 PM
I believe the title of her book is Peas.


Hmm. For some reason, I can not find it.

AnneMarble
03-13-2008, 07:17 PM
Hmm. For some reason, I can not find it.
I think it's this one:
Peas, "Pills," and Parkinson's (http://www.amazon.com/Peas-Pills-Parkinsons-Alice-Crooker/dp/1424137292/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205421345&sr=1-1).

acrooker
03-13-2008, 08:03 PM
[quote=SouthernWriter1978;2150513]So...Alice Crooker has arrived and registered on AW...I guess hell has frozen over. Oh well, I've got an ignore button here too.

Oh yes before I forget, welcome to AW![/quote

Totally charming. You will not need to use it. I do not like repetition and have said all I have to say on this matter.

I am going to look into seeing how to go to Anarctica--I want to see the penguins. Enjoy yourselves-- I will!

Best wishes to all in their writing and publishing,
To your good health,

Alice--'the duck lady"

Brenda Hill
03-13-2008, 08:09 PM
So...Alice Crooker has arrived and registered on AW...I guess hell has frozen over. Oh well, I've got an ignore button here too.

Oh yes before I forget, welcome to AW!

Cute, Southern. Sometimes it's difficult to forget, isn't it.

Alice, you know that's mild compared to what she received on that 'other' board.

Sheryl Nantus
03-13-2008, 08:17 PM
I've never understood PA authors who dash in, post a few times, and then dash off as if they've counted coup on AW and have to brag about it elsewhere.

You can learn more here on AW in a single hour than in a year of reading the mis/disinformation on the PAMB. Dismissing that just to make a spectacle of oneself just strikes me as silly and immature, no matter what age you declare yourself to be.

buh-bye.

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 08:18 PM
Yes, Alice, please don't pretend for one single moment that you've not given it as well as you've gotten it. I won't rehash - you're welcome here at AW, and I hope you take advice in the spirit it is given, and maybe poke around here a bit on other parts of the board, like Novel or Non-fiction writing, or even Share Your Work.

AnneMarble
03-13-2008, 08:26 PM
I've never understood PA authors who dash in, post a few times, and then dash off as if they've counted coup on AW and have to brag about it elsewhere.
And when they do brag about it on the PA board, their posts are almost always deleted. Some authors have been banned for mentioning AW inp posts -- yes, even if they mentioned it in a critical way. Some of these authors have managed to get their bans removed. But why would you want to deal with jackasses who ban you (or any long-time member) for mentioning AW? If someone treated you that badly in a grocery store or coffee shop, you'd never go there again.


You can learn more here on AW in a single hour than in a year of reading the mis/disinformation on the PAMB. Dismissing that just to make a spectacle of oneself just strikes me as silly and immature, no matter what age you declare yourself to be.
Heck, if you disagree with the existence of the PA threads, don't read them. But why should that stop you from reading any of the other threads? AW has subforums on a number of types of writing, from fiction and poetry to nonfiction, freelancing, nonfiction, etc., as well as subforums on politics, movies, etc. (Some people always talk about writing, and some never talk about it. ;)) The PA boards don't have those options. There are lots and lots of writing forums that do have similar options, but you'd never know that from the posts on the PA board. Ever wonder why they don't want you to know?

Mel
03-13-2008, 08:45 PM
I've never understood PA authors who dash in, post a few times, and then dash off as if they've counted coup on AW and have to brag about it elsewhere.

A badge of honor?

Scary to enter the lion's den, isn't it?

I think many are surprised at how warmly they're welcomed here.

Jersey Chick
03-13-2008, 09:07 PM
It takes a little of the wind from their sails, to see we aren't the Evil Empire. :D

brianm
03-13-2008, 09:49 PM
But it can have a great deal to do with the possibility of seeing that manuscript commercially published.

Absolutely.

I would agree that the average 50 year old is not as motivated nor as willing to make the sacrifices required that they would have made as a younger person.

That said, successful people are not average. Artists or otherwise. They are highly motivated and focused individuals who are willing to take chances, work their arses off, and make sacrifices to attain their goals.

Now excuse me while I pull my one foot out of the grave, locate my cane, and toddle off to pack my suitcases. I'm going to need all the strength I can garner to survive a twelve hour flight back home. Hell, just getting through security and customs is a bloody marathon at my age. :tongue

(Just joking with you RG :D)

Gravity
03-13-2008, 09:51 PM
I've never understood PA authors who dash in, post a few times, and then dash off as if they've counted coup on AW and have to brag about it elsewhere.

I think Alice herself said it best: she's not a writer, and has no desire to be one.

And there's no shame in that; I have zero desire to be a math teacher, or the guy that shammies Volvos down at the Wash'n'Sparkle. Different strokes, and all that. As crazy as it seems (and it's been pointed out before) there are some folks who are happier than a pig in slop over being printed by PA. It's Author, the RPG being enjoyed. Like Alice, they have one book in them, and once it's between covers--however that's accomplished--they don't really have any further desire to move into the real world of commercial publishing (Alien Engima, anyone?).

Mi dos centavos; spend em' anyway you want.

acrooker
03-13-2008, 10:24 PM
Absolutely.

I would agree that the average 50 year old is not as motivated nor as willing to make the sacrifices required that they would have made as a younger person.

That said, successful people are not average. Artists or otherwise. They are highly motivated and focused individuals who are willing to take chances, work their arses off, and make sacrifices to attain their goals.

Now excuse me while I pull my one foot out of the grave, locate my cane, and toddle off to pack my suitcases. I'm going to need all the strength I can garner to survive a twelve hour flight back home. Hell, just getting through security and customs is a bloody marathon at my age. :tongue

(Just joking with you RG :D)

Brian,

Truer than you will ever know. Funny also. Airport Security is a hoot.
You would think I was Osama bin Laden by the time they get through with me. I don't have a lot of room for remorse and self-loathing after they look and probe and freak and say they have never seen anyone like me before. Isn't it a blessing, Southernwriter and Christine --there is only one of me. We must be thankful for our blessings.
Alice

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 10:45 PM
I think Alice herself said it best: she's not a writer, and has no desire to be one.



I agree, so she should have no business on a writer's board, then, other than to stir the pot. Don't know that's true, but appearances are misleading (as anyone who's been around PA long enough realizes). I rather hope she comes down from her high horse, sticks around and reads a bit outside the B&B board. I think there's something for everyone here, even 'not writers', as she calls herself. Dear, backhanded insults and fake innocence won't fly here.


impact on me, you may want to read the book excerpt

Wow. I couldn't get past the first third. Not that it was a bad story, the grammatical mistakes just took me right out of it. Mistakes happen, but that was a proliferation of errors that wouldn't be allowed in print at any other publisher.

A little spit and polish, a little elbow grease, and it could have been worth reading to the end.

Marian Perera
03-13-2008, 10:49 PM
As crazy as it seems (and it's been pointed out before) there are some folks who are happier than a pig in slop over being printed by PA. It's Author, the RPG being enjoyed.

And that's fine - if all they want is the one book to hold in their hands (as opposed to wanting a career or commercial publication or good royalties). However, that doesn't mean that other writers are wrong or demanding or unrealistic for expecting a self-proclaimed "traditional publisher" to edit and promote and market their books.

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 10:53 PM
Yep. Don't get huffy when we call you playing the game of author. If you wanna play Little League that's cool, it's all in fun, but don't pretend to be in the pros.

Gravity
03-13-2008, 11:02 PM
All very true. I was just stating where I thought she was coming from, and what mindset she was advocating. Only she herself knows, of course.

acrooker
03-13-2008, 11:02 PM
I agree, so she should have no business on a writer's board, then, other than to stir the pot. Don't know that's true, but appearances are misleading (as anyone who's been around PA long enough realizes). I rather hope she comes down from her high horse, sticks around and reads a bit outside the B&B board. I think there's something for everyone here, even 'not writers', as she calls herself. Dear, backhanded insults and fake innocence won't fly here.



Wow. I couldn't get past the first third. Not that it was a bad story, the grammatical mistakes just took me right out of it. Mistakes happen, but that was a proliferation of errors that wouldn't be allowed in print at any other publisher.

A little spit and polish, a little elbow grease, and it could have been worth reading to the end.



I have the utmost regard amd respect for writers. Because I do not call myself one does not mean I disrespect them. You are reading more than necessary into my post. I am not on my high horse.

I am not making back-handed comments. I love writers. They have a gift. I merely said I am not one. I am in reality.

Alice

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 11:05 PM
Yeah, right.


Isn't it a blessing, Southernwriter and Christine --there is only one of me. We must be thankful for our blessings.
Alice

Ugh, never mind. You won't own it anyway. You've never done so in the past, don't know why you'd bother now. The past speaks for itself. If you don't have the mind or the inclination to write any more, then why...oh forget it. You're hear to tell 'your side', which you've done. Fine.

Marian Perera
03-13-2008, 11:08 PM
I am not making back-handed comments. I love writers. They have a gift. I merely said I am not one. I am in reality.

Then I'm sure you understand that the expectations you have/had of PA will not be the same expectations as those of writers. Nor, perhaps, should those writers be advised by someone who does not consider herself to be a writer.

acrooker
03-13-2008, 11:11 PM
Christine,

Have you ever heard of Today
Yesterday is gone etc?

It is a useful concept.

Jersey Chick
03-13-2008, 11:13 PM
Is anyone else confused? Because I kind of am.

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 11:14 PM
Then I'm sure you understand that the expectations you have/had of PA will not be the same expectations as those of writers. Nor, perhaps, should those writers be advised by someone who does not consider herself to be a writer.


Agreed. Because writing is not just about putting words on paper in a pleasing configuration. It's about knowing the business of writing too.

Alice is on ignore. I have better things to do.

Mel
03-13-2008, 11:15 PM
Useful concept: Yesterday is the past, it's wise to learn from it.

Brenda Hill
03-13-2008, 11:16 PM
Brian,
You would think I was Osama bin Laden by the time they get through with me. I don't have a lot of room for remorse and self-loathing after they look and probe and freak and say they have never seen anyone like me before. Isn't it a blessing, Southernwriter and Christine --there is only one of me. We must be thankful for our blessings.
Alice

Alice, no one here has come close to the snide remarks and ridicule some of us received from you and certain of your friends on the other board. With the backing of those friends, you attacked those, including Christine and SouthernWRiter, among others, who visited that board and tried to educate about true publishing. But the pack tore them to shreds and labeled them as bashers. Or said they had an agenda.

So pul-lease, if you truly want to learn, this is a great place. If not, what is YOUR agenda?

Christine N.
03-13-2008, 11:16 PM
Useful concept: Yesterday is the past, it's wise to learn from it.



Or be doomed to repeat it.

IceCreamEmpress
03-13-2008, 11:36 PM
Yes, Santayana's revenge.

Alice, I recommend Lindblad Tours' Antarctica trips. I have an acquaintance who has been a consulting ornithologist on these trips, and he says they're great. Pricey, but worth it.

As for you, W. Lane Rogers, Dave was pointing out that the man who plagiarized the cancer book took advantage of PublishAmerica's lack of editing to perpetrate a scam. That's why people have animus toward him as well as the PublishAmerica proprietors, who deserve the animus because they scam many of their authors. I don't know how anyone could interpret that as a "threat" to Alice; I can say with utter confidence that nobody here thinks that Alice's book is anything other than original, and an accurate representation of her own experiences.

If people are happy with the product and service they receive from PublishAmerica, more power to them. It sounds like Alice has an appropriate level of expectations about what the company can deliver (although there are other companies who can deliver better product at a lower price, and we have a subforum here devoted to smart shopping for print-on-demand services and other self-publishing options).

DeadlyAccurate
03-13-2008, 11:39 PM
Is anyone else confused? Because I kind of am.

I think I finally figured out the sniping is coming from issues from another board.

I think.

TwentyFour
03-13-2008, 11:56 PM
I say "God bless AW!"

Brenda Hill
03-13-2008, 11:57 PM
If I could've found an applauding smiley, Sheryl, I would've used it.

Bravo!

TwentyFour
03-13-2008, 11:59 PM
I believe you're correct.


Otherwise, I'm sure the PAMB and other boards will be glad to have someone new yattering about plants, penguins and potting soil.
This is my favorite part :)

brianm
03-14-2008, 12:04 AM
I think I finally figured out the sniping is coming from issues from another board.

I think.

I figured that out, as well.

Whatever happened on another board has no place here. Some posts have really gotten off track.

JMHO

acrooker
03-14-2008, 12:05 AM
Excuse me, after reading excerpts of what I said on other boards, here, I thought I would say what had happened to me.

I thought someone would want to hear the truth.

Obviously a lot of ill will is generated towards me. If someone will tell me how to delete my account, I will gladly do so.


God bless you all

TwentyFour
03-14-2008, 12:08 AM
I figured that out, as well.

Whatever happened on another board has no place here. Some posts have really gotten of track.

JMHO
That's true, but I'm sure all the ill tempers will dampen by morn. It's a beautiful day here and I've been in and out of the house all day enjoying the sunshine. PAMB seems quiet right now, too bad infocenter keeps deleting all the informative posts. I wish some of those who want to learn more will find a way to here or other great writing forums with info on what they yearn to know.

Christine N.
03-14-2008, 12:26 AM
Yes, it was, and I'm sorry. Alice, though she'll deny it, never seems to mean what she says - there's always an edge to it, or some sort of backhanded implication. Which is why I put her on ignore. I won't be baited or goaded into the fake innocent routine, I'm not doing anything bad thing she does.

She's free as the next to post here. She said she's happy, and that's great. Past experience will lead me to believe she wants nothing more than for someone to say PA is a real, viable commercial publisher, instead of a vanity press playing dress-up, and no one here will do that. They can be sneaky, manipulative and downright insulting, and I don't know why anyone would want to do business with a company that treats their authors/customers the way PA treats some.

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 12:28 AM
Excuse me, after reading excerpts of what I said on other boards, here, I thought I would say what had happened to me.

I thought someone would want to hear the truth.

Obviously a lot of ill will is generated towards me. If someone will tell me how to delete my account, I will gladly do so.


God bless you all

every single post you have made here has been in this thread.

I believe that says a lot about why you came to AW.

feel free to visit the other threads and partake of the knowledge there - you may actually learn something you can take back to the PAMB.

or not.

Christine N.
03-14-2008, 12:30 AM
Why should she learn, Sheryl? She's the first one to admit she's 'not a writer'. It's clear why she came and I'm glad she's told her side of the story. Really, it's nice to have a different perspective.

TwentyFour
03-14-2008, 12:33 AM
Have a poptart

http://pics.livejournal.com/fridgemagnet/pic/0001e8sc

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 12:35 AM
Excuse me, after reading excerpts of what I said on other boards, here, I thought I would say what had happened to me.

I thought someone would want to hear the truth.

Obviously a lot of ill will is generated towards me. If someone will tell me how to delete my account, I will gladly do so.


God bless you all


Now - see, this is what I don't get. If you want to hang out, that's fine. Great. Wander around and check out the views. Go over to Politics, or Office Party - there's a whole lot more here than just this thread.

No one has told you to go away, so I don't get the sort-of flounce, either. From what I've seen, you've been welcomed here. And if you want to share, that's great. But don't expect that we're going to say, "Oh, well, then maybe PA isn't so bad." Because that ain't gonna happen. No one will hold PA against you, but when some of your posts seem to contain thinly-veiled insults, well that won't go over here. That's not what this thread, or any other thread, here is about.

Okay - not quite so confused any more.

Marian Perera
03-14-2008, 12:38 AM
I thought someone would want to hear the truth.

Soylent Green is people!

Though I prefer, "You can't handle the truth!"

Christine N.
03-14-2008, 12:38 AM
Oh, is THAT what she said? I only see when people quote her.

There's your version of 'the truth', and other people's. And by that I mean that everyone has their own truth. So you told YOUR truth, but that's not the truth for many other people who really had trouble with PA.

TwentyFour
03-14-2008, 12:39 AM
I'm sure a mod will step in if it gets out of hand. The best is to ignore those who insult you, it makes your time on AW much more enjoyable. Most people who come here to troll or insult others will lose interest if their posse isn't with them. Funny isn't it, some people said they'd never show up here since we don't know what we are talking about, I guess it might be a last resort?

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 12:40 AM
Y'know, here in Jersey, the words "my truth is..." are usually followed by a governor resigning.... :D

TwentyFour
03-14-2008, 12:41 AM
How is his 5K habit working for him?

ColoradoGuy
03-14-2008, 12:43 AM
If someone will tell me how to delete my account, I will gladly do so.
We don't delete accounts on AW. If you wish to stop posting, just do so. However, we do value all sorts of participants in the discussions as long as folks follow the Prime Directive, which is "respect your fellow writer." If you think, on balance, that people are not following that rule please feel free to PM the moderator of this particular forum (or any super moderator), pointing out the posts you object to.

As have others in this thread, I encourage you to look around at other areas of AW; I think you will find much of interest and value to you.

Richard White
03-14-2008, 12:46 AM
Well, I'm not a mod (I think I've been told that more than once, come to think of it), but I think this thread has gotten way off track here.

It's obvious there's some bad blood between some of the participants from the PAMB. I can't tell anyone how to feel or how to react to someone else's goading and I know it's tough when a person has the pack behind them at ANY board and you (the generic you) feel like you're all on your own there.

Still, I seem to recall, Jenna had one rule for this board - "Treat all writers (even hobbyists) with respect."

I don't want to see anyone get in trouble.

Remember:

PA is the problem, not their authors
Treat your fellow writers with respect
The "Ignore" button is your friend if you just can't stand reading what someone's posting (I know, I have several on that list myself).
Life's too damn short to get into arguments on an internet bulletin board.

Of course, like all advice, you're free to ignore this.

NightOwlWriter
03-14-2008, 01:06 AM
I think that I have finally come to a realization about PA after all I have learned about them in the past few weeks. PA may be good for some people. Like Alice said she is “not a writer” and PA has met her expectations. I’m happy for Alice that she is satisfied with the service she received from PA. I may be wrong about this, it’s just a guess, but I think that the reason that Alice doesn’t understand why so many people are against PA is because her dream is not to be a writer. I hope that makes sense. I have a migraine today so it’s possible that it doesn’t, but I wanted to weigh in on this because I have been skimming through all the posts about PA. I think that if you have a dream to be a published author and you consider your work to be like your baby, something you love and cherish, then PA is not someone you should trust with that baby. I keep thinking about an email PA sent me that said something to the effect of, “Congratulations on what must be a dream coming true” and now I think they are full of crap. Just my opinion sorry if it offends anyone.

Afinerosesheis
03-14-2008, 01:08 AM
Alice, you treated some of us REALLY bad for speaking our honest opinions. And here you pop in out of nowhere speaking your honest opinions. What makes you think it is any different? Should we treat you as you once treated us? You should know you are treading on dangerous territory coming in here, on this particular thread. You know people you treated badly post here. Perhaps things are getting dull over at the PAMB, so you decided you would spend some time here to cure the duldroms?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to hassle you. Other people here should not hassle you either if your intentions in posting are honorable. However, it does seem strange that you would come out from nowhere to join the same people who you once crucified.

Christine N.
03-14-2008, 01:59 AM
I think that I have finally come to a realization about PA after all I have learned about them in the past few weeks. PA may be good for some people. Like Alice said she is “not a writer” and PA has met her expectations. I’m happy for Alice that she is satisfied with the service she received from PA. I may be wrong about this, it’s just a guess, but I think that the reason that Alice doesn’t understand why so many people are against PA is because her dream is not to be a writer. I hope that makes sense. I have a migraine today so it’s possible that it doesn’t, but I wanted to weigh in on this because I have been skimming through all the posts about PA. I think that if you have a dream to be a published author and you consider your work to be like your baby, something you love and cherish, then PA is not someone you should trust with that baby. I keep thinking about an email PA sent me that said something to the effect of, “Congratulations on what must be a dream coming true” and now I think they are full of crap. Just my opinion sorry if it offends anyone.


I think you hit it right on the head, Night Owl. And then again, I think some might just say they're not a writer because they know they've gotten a raw deal and are trying to justify it by saying they never wanted to be a writer anyway. Not saying anyone here is, it's just a perception I have, from watching over the years.

Welcome to the cooler :)

jamiehall
03-14-2008, 03:24 AM
Exactly how is Dave's post threatening? He stated facts. Seriously, I'm curious as to what leads you to think there's any threat in his post.

I imagine if Alice felt threatened she's capable of stating so herself.

I also wanted to say: I didn't see any kind of threat or off-topic-ness in Dave's post either. Stating that we accept nearly every PA author with rare exceptions, and then clearing demonstrating the kind of extreme behavior that fails to earn our respect (plagiarism) is indeed a way of welcoming Alice and showing her that we mean her no harm.



2. Energy and opportunity do not necessarily extend equally across the age spectrum. Someone at 30 or 40 is better able to promote himself or herself and his or her books (to agents, publishers, and readers) than someone a generation older -- travel to make appearances or attend conferences, for example.


I can easily imagine that some things would be advantages:

1) Many people in that age range are retired and have no children at home, so they might be able to produce books faster and more reliably than an equivalently-talented young writer with a full-time job and children underfoot.

2) Many retired people travel quite a bit. This could make it easier to squeeze in book tours.


It takes a little of the wind from their sails, to see we aren't the Evil Empire. :D

No, we aren't Disney. :D


I figured that out, as well.

Whatever happened on another board has no place here. Some posts have really gotten off track.

JMHO

I can understand why such a reaction would take place - the pain and hurt don't disappear just because of a new place - but I hope there won't be any more posts of that sort. Alice has been nicer so far than some PA authors who come here. If she does get mean or if she starts playing weird, hurtful games, she'll get banned. If she doesn't, then it is best not to provoke her with insinuations, no matter how galling her behavior on the PAMB may have been.


Excuse me, after reading excerpts of what I said on other boards, here, I thought I would say what had happened to me.

I thought someone would want to hear the truth.

Obviously a lot of ill will is generated towards me. If someone will tell me how to delete my account, I will gladly do so.


God bless you all

None of us are asking you to go. Please stay, and I encourage you to post in other portions of AW, where many interesting conversations are taking place. Sometimes this sub-board gets a bit uncomfortable for those who've had books with PA, and it helps to take a short break, look around, and see what else may be worth reading on other sections of AW.


I think that I have finally come to a realization about PA after all I have learned about them in the past few weeks. PA may be good for some people. Like Alice said she is “not a writer” and PA has met her expectations. I’m happy for Alice that she is satisfied with the service she received from PA. I may be wrong about this, it’s just a guess, but I think that the reason that Alice doesn’t understand why so many people are against PA is because her dream is not to be a writer. I hope that makes sense. I have a migraine today so it’s possible that it doesn’t, but I wanted to weigh in on this because I have been skimming through all the posts about PA. I think that if you have a dream to be a published author and you consider your work to be like your baby, something you love and cherish, then PA is not someone you should trust with that baby. I keep thinking about an email PA sent me that said something to the effect of, “Congratulations on what must be a dream coming true” and now I think they are full of crap. Just my opinion sorry if it offends anyone.

Thank you very much for your post! :welcome:

acrooker
03-14-2008, 04:22 AM
Alfinerosesheis, Brenda, Christine and Southernwriter,

I am very glad I came here. I had no idea you still harbored such ill-will. Funny I wasn't even mad at any of you. I like to argue--should have been a lawyer--took the wrong path.

I chaired boards where people got very
heated at each other then walked away and they were fine

I don't care that you do not agree with me. This is America and I want you to think and say what you want to think and say. I wish to do the same.

The reason I came was because I saw you were talking about Dick and me. I spoke in our defense. I am sorry I affected you so adversely.

Peace, Please,



Alice

tlblack
03-14-2008, 04:24 AM
Sad but true how some of the PAMB posters are coming to realize that those royalty checks won't buy much more than a burger and fries, or maybe perhaps a new hair style.

I still say welcome to Alice, (even though my short stint on the other board resulted in being called a delusional liar). What she says, she says, but it won't get under my skin. After dealing with PA for six years, it's all good.

Marian Perera
03-14-2008, 04:37 AM
I had no idea you still harbored such ill-will.

If you really want "Peace, Please", it might be a good idea to stop mentioning what you perceive as other people's "ill-will" and look at what you are saying instead.

Afinerosesheis
03-14-2008, 04:55 AM
This is America and I want you to think and say what you want to think and say.

Funny you didn't think this about six months ago when you tore our A@@&^ for expressing ideas you didn't agree with. JMO though, that's all.

BTW I haven't been talking about you or Dick that I know of. You may call me on that if I am mistaken.

I visit this thread to express those things I could not freely express elsewhere. I have nothing aginst PA authors (except those who are cruel and tell outright lies. You know who I am talking about...those who were also cruel to you at one time) I do not forget those things because people like that, authors or no, will probably not change.

Authors should NOT be expected to buy and peddle their own books. They should NOT be expected to be happy with miniscule royalty statements for all the hard work they have done. They should NOT be blamed for not promoting hard enough to sell more books. Not one person can do this alone and expect to get anywhere. Authors should be entitled to proper line editing and bookstore placement/promotion. PA does not provide these services and many sign their contracts believing they will receive much more than they get. Authors should NOT be abused or banned on their own publisher's message board. Authors have the right to ask legitimate and honest questions pertaining to their book and publishing venture.

I am sorry if this is a sore point to some. But I do not like to see honest, good people hurt and disappointed because they may have been been misled by any company who only thinks of the almighty dollars going into their own pockets.

THAT, Alice, is why I have issues with PA and other writers/authors who HURT others who might disagree with them. I withstood a lot of cruelty for my beliefs. So did others. I might forgive but I do not forget.

So you can go ahead with your quips or whatever, but it does not change how some of us feel. But if you are happy, then I am happy for you. I have no intention of trying to change anyone's mind. But I put information out there for anyone who would like to decide for themselves.

If that is ill will, then so be it.

Afinerosesheis
03-14-2008, 06:44 AM
If You or a loved one draws Social Security retirement
I posted this elsewhere, but I think it might have gotten lost in the shuffle. I know more people may see it here.

If you or anyone you know is retired on Social Security (and/or veterans benefits, RR retirement) and normally is not required to file a tax return, please let them know they need to file one this year to take advantage of the benefits the government will be sending out in early May. Otherwise they will not get it. They will just need to fill out a simple 1040A and mail it in. This needs to be done by April 15.

I do not know a lot about this or exactly how much people will get, but I do know it will be based soley on your 2007 tax return. If you have any further questions you may call the IRS at 1-800-829-1040 or else visit the IRS website at http://www.irs.gov (http://www.irs.gov/)

BarbJ
03-14-2008, 06:46 AM
Authors should NOT be expected to buy and peddle their own books. They should NOT be expected to be happy with miniscule royalty statements for all the hard work they have done. They should NOT be blamed for not promoting hard enough to sell more books. Not one person can do this alone and expect to get anywhere. Authors should be entitled to proper line editing and bookstore placement/promotion. PA does not provide these services and many sign their contracts believing they will receive much more than they get. Authors should NOT be abused or banned on their own publisher's message board. Authors have the right to ask legitimate and honest questions pertaining to their book and publishing venture.

I am sorry if this is a sore point to some. But I do not like to see honest, good people hurt and disappointed because they may have been been misled by any company who only thinks of the almighty dollars going into their own pockets.

Bravo; well said!

I also loathe PA for smashing people's dreams. I personally know people who were scammed but thought they were unsuccessful because they couldn't write, and walked away. Gave up their dreams so the unethical could make a buck.

There have been good books that will never know an audience, and good writers who will never learn to write well - so PA could make a buck. These things are wrong, simply wrong.

Please, lurkers and new writers, if you'll be satisfied with merely a printed book, there are better companies to do the job, many less expensive ultimately. And you won't be bankrolling a company like PA.

If, however, you wish to be a professional writer, even if you only write one book in your life, you must take the time and effort to learn. Yes, it takes work; is your book worth it? If not, go to Kinkos. And if you're writing about something important, such as cancer or PD or any life-altering subject, at least try to reach as wide an audience as possible. You can't do that through Publish America.

Sorry. I just had to let it out. Back to waiting for royalty reaction.

Sean D. Schaffer
03-14-2008, 07:09 AM
Sean,

Thank you for your very reasonable answer. I am sorry you had such a terrible experience.

I expected what I got--a book. Well, actually, 5 free copies.

Expectations do play a major role in satisfaction or dissatisfaction. I hope you have a suitable publisher now.

Best regards,

Alice


You're welcome, Alice. You'll find we're very passionate about what we believe here, just like you are about PA's supposed good. The truth is, my eyes opened to PA's professionalism when they emailed me the cover they had planned on using for my book. I had drawn a very rough drawing, and asked them to have their artists make a professional rendering of it. That's not what I got. In fact, what they did was use my own artwork, which was nowhere near professional quality, and place a clip-art scroll around its borders. I was horrified, and my belief in the salability of my work plummeted.

Then I got those nice guestbook slammers basically calling me an idiot for having gone with PA. At first, I fought them, but I had no way of banning them from my website and I was so crushed by their comments, partially because many of those comments about PA's quality were true. The only reason I did not want to believe them, was the belittling tactics they used against me personally. To this day, I still abhor such people. Anyone who comes to a person's own website to bash them personally because of their choice in publishers, is in my humble opinion a loser.

As to your comment about my having found a suitable publisher, it hasn't happened yet. I became so heavily depressed about PA that for the longest time I didn't take my own writing seriously, let alone the submissions process. I let my feelings dictate, at the time, who I submitted to and many times if I even allowed those people to continue considering my work. So at this present time, though I'm starting to properly heal from the wound, I'm still quite some distance from finding a suitable publisher. First, I need to finish my manuscript, and then I need to find a house that will accept it. That's a hard road, and until I gain my confidence completely back, I won't be able to properly submit my works.

Thankfully, I find that I am growing out of this phase, and soon I should be able to do what it takes to make my book the best it can be.

Oh, and before I forget: you mentioned expectations. I suppose those expectations really depend upon your definition of 'Traditional Publisher'. With me, the definition was 'Commercial Publisher', and I think you'll find the majority of authors who are displeased with PublishAmerica, had a similar take on that definition.

I'll heal, and my career will eventually take off. But I've had a lot of recovering to go through over the last several years. Had I never handled that, I would not be able at this present time, to start moving on with my life. This is something I don't want to have to see other aspiring authors have to go through. Having a writer's dreams completely crushed is not something I relish watching happen.

W. Lane Rogers
03-14-2008, 08:05 AM
Unfortunately, Mr. W. Lane Rogers appears to consider "Cancer Boy" to be a real author deserving of respect instead of considering that my words might have been carefully chosen to point out that not all "authors" are deserving of anything, particularly those that perpetrate a charade by claiming the words of others along with a miracle cure. Ms. Crooker and other PA authors might be entitled to respect as authors, but not "Cancer Boy."

Your logic is juvenile. Your smugness is unbecoming.

Edit point: Alice wrote a book about Parkinson's Disease, from which she suffers. Your idiotic comment about a "Cancer Boy" and plagarism was out of place, inapropriate, offensive and infuriating. For all the concern and compassion you folks chatter about, the dismissive superiority and smugness expressed on this thread is thick enough to slice.

Brenda Hill
03-14-2008, 12:06 PM
Lane, I called Alice on her behavior and it’s unfair to judge an entire message board by my posts to her. AW has a rule to keep posters welcoming and polite and I’m the one who violated that rule. I’ve never before attacked anyone on this MB, but seeing Alice’s post set my teeth on edge. She was one of a couple of harsh, vindictive posters on another MB and she’d begun her posts here with that same sly, sarcastic tone, then retreated, asking why we couldn’t all be friends. Well, I learned not to befriend someone who slaps me down in one post, then pleads in another to forget the past and be friends. If she would have worded her posts in a more friendly tone, she would have been received as a friend.

I’m truly sorry she has such a serious illness, but like age, it doesn’t excuse bad behavior.

Joanna_S
03-14-2008, 12:31 PM
For all the concern and compassion you folks chatter about, the dismissive superiority and smugness expressed on this thread is thick enough to slice.

That comment appears to be rather superior and smug, Mr. Rogers -- almost dismissively so.

The truth is that we're all human beings and we all bring our own opinions, emotions, and histories with us. Most of us won't claim to be perfect. We want to respect our fellow writers, but reality is that there'll always be those who rub us the wrong way, statements that cry out to be disputed, and as recently evidenced, lives that have not been spent in every waking moment on this board (issues from other boards do seep in).

For all of our faults and flaws, we're doing our best. Some come to these threads to heal. Others are desperate for information. Still others do their best to don tattered capes and fight the good fight. Do we always say exactly the right things or behave in exactly the way we should? Back to that being human thing again. Of course not. But most of us do our best.

It all boils down to one simple concept: we want to help our fellow writers. If this desire comes across as superiority or smugness, it's profoundly unfortunate. It's easy to concede that the occasional post might seem that way, but for you to see this entire thread in that light? I'm at a loss.

-- Joanna

Captain Morgan
03-14-2008, 03:57 PM
I think it's this one:
Peas, "Pills," and Parkinson's (http://www.amazon.com/Peas-Pills-Parkinsons-Alice-Crooker/dp/1424137292/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205421345&sr=1-1).



Ahh, for some reason I kept thinking this was some sort of accounting book! Anyhow, Parkinson's disease is just terrible, and I can only hope that if this book makes those victims feel better, then it does well well.


I'm still surprised that her book is stocked in multiple at a physical bookstore. Is this the first record we have of this, (without an author's special influence)? Unfortunately, there is no Barnes & Noble near me, unless I want to cross into US territory, so I can not verify this for myself.


Anyhow, I guess if she didn't know this before, she must how from reading this thread; her page-inclusion for her book on Amazon.com is prohibited by PA. Anyhow, I promise I won't tell them, if she doesn't :P

I definitely won't feel guilty about this being kept secret from PA, but I do hope she takes this into consideration in the future with dealings/defense-arguements for that organization.

DaveKuzminski
03-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Your logic is juvenile. Your smugness is unbecoming.

Edit point: Alice wrote a book about Parkinson's Disease, from which she suffers. Your idiotic comment about a "Cancer Boy" and plagarism was out of place, inapropriate, offensive and infuriating. For all the concern and compassion you folks chatter about, the dismissive superiority and smugness expressed on this thread is thick enough to slice.

And the opinion of a cabal member from PA should concern me?

xhouseboy
03-14-2008, 05:45 PM
[quote=W. Lane Rogers;2153786] Alice wrote a book about Parkinson's Disease, from which she suffers. Your idiotic comment about a "Cancer Boy" and plagarism was out of place, inapropriate, offensive and infuriating.


No it wasn't.

Your refusal to recognise the sheer arrogance and stupidity of Cancer Boy and his blatant plagiarism is out of place, innapropriate, offensive and infuriating.

You really should arm yourself with some knowledge of the situation before posting idiotic responses like that. He's not 'a Cancer Boy', he is 'Cancer Boy', and his behaviour bordered on the criminal. But he was in good company. His publishers are also known to have veered on the wrong side of the law.




For all the concern and compassion you folks chatter about, the dismissive superiority and smugness expressed on this thread is thick enough to slice.


As is the tendency to twist the words of another to suit a certain agenda.

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 05:59 PM
I think a little clarification is needed here in regards to "Cancer Boy", since some of us have been around longer than others.

If you hit this particular spot on the thread: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=430048&highlight=Cancer#post430048
WAY back in 2005 you'll see that the topic under discussion is a PA author who wrote a book claiming to know how to cure cancer. Which, obviously fell under discussion here since claiming a cure for cancer tends to get one's attention.

The author plagarized blatantly from various sources to the point of insanity, documented thoroughly by AW members who purchased a copy and then found all the stolen statements. As well, it was obvious that the author was not only posting reviews for himself on Amazon.com but also taking on the role to email AW members and threaten them for daring to question him.

The reason why AW members reacted so strongly? First, many of us have dealt with cancer either personally or through a family member. When a snake-oil salesman appears with the "cure" for cancer you're going to take note - and when it's nothing but smoke and mirrors along with blatantly stealing the work of noted scientists and doctors in order to promote your own version of reality you're going to tick some of us off. Go figure.

As well, it was a pretty obvious example of how PublishAmerica does NOT even read the work sent to them, fiction OR nonfiction. This book shouldn't have even gotten past the submission stage if a legitimate editor or publisher had glanced at it. The theories were garbage and the science hardly valid.

PA *did* finally stop printing the book and that ticked the author off even more; blaming AW members as well as the entire world for keeping this great secret from the masses. However, our concern here at AW was for that SINGLE person who might, just might, order a copy and decide that this malarky had some reasoning and thus turn away from established cancer treatments to follow this idiot's "treatment" routines. It was unlikely and I doubt anyone did so, but the fact that it was allowed to proceed through submission and into production by PA highlights a huge problem, needless to say.

The links and relevant posts can be found through AW's search engine for those who want to read the documentation provided by many AW members who took the time and trouble to find the plagarism and the misuse of science in this book.

"Cancer Boy" did NOT suffer from cancer. However, even if he had that shouldn't be an excuse for trying to pass off other people's work as your own and pushing a medical theory with not only no basis in reality, but that would prove actually dangerous to others. Having a disease does not automatically give you a pass to act and do as you wish, ignoring the rules of society.

'nuff said.

acrooker
03-14-2008, 06:00 PM
Ahh, for some reason I kept thinking this was some sort of accounting book! Anyhow, Parkinson's disease is just terrible, and I can only hope that if this book makes those victims feel better, then it does well well.


I'm still surprised that her book is stocked in multiple at a physical bookstore. Is this the first record we have of this, (without an author's special influence)? Unfortunately, there is no Barnes & Noble near me, unless I want to cross into US territory, so I can not verify this for myself.


Anyhow, I guess if she didn't know this before, she must how from reading this thread; her page-inclusion for her book on Amazon.com is prohibited by PA. Anyhow, I promise I won't tell them, if she doesn't :P

I definitely won't feel guilty about this being kept secret from PA, but I do hope she takes this into consideration in the future with dealings/defense-arguements for that organization.


Thank you all for your concern. The issue here is copyright I sent a copy of my book --not an electronic copy. I am sure you will quickly see that PA could be concerned over electronic submissions. They are expressly forbidden on the second page of the book.

What Alice Crooker has learned from coming here is that there are some very imaginative and creative writers here.

It is unclear to me where and when I "crucified" anyone. Also not agreeing with somebody is hardly" bad behaviour."

I do not take the opinions of such unbalanced folks into account. Enjoy your misery. My apologies are withdrawn. Have a wonderful life. I will too.


Alice

endless rewrite
03-14-2008, 06:09 PM
Thank goodness that's all over. I've been waiting for Alice to reveal her true colours and feelings, it was only a matter of time. Lets draw a line under it and move on.

Marian Perera
03-14-2008, 06:13 PM
Alice,

I did not find your apologies sincere at all, so I'm glad that you have withdrawn them. I don't think they were fooling anyone, even yourself.

On a more pleasant note, I love the PA author's song. A great satire of the prevailing mood there.

TwentyFour
03-14-2008, 06:13 PM
Thank goodness that's all over. I've been waiting for Alice to reveal her true colours and feelings, it was only a matter of time. Lets draw a line under it and move on.
It's a beautiful day, isn't it?

Gravity
03-14-2008, 06:23 PM
I do not take the opinions of such unbalanced folks into account. Enjoy your misery. My apologies are withdrawn. Have a wonderful life. I will too. Alice

Uh...was that a flounce? It seemed like a flounce, but...ah, what do I know? If the line judge rules it a flounce, a flounce it is.

Next.

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 06:26 PM
<snipped>
What Alice Crooker has learned from coming here is that there are some very imaginative and creative writers here.

It is unclear to me where and when I "crucified" anyone. Also not agreeing with somebody is hardly" bad behaviour."

I do not take the opinions of such unbalanced folks into account. Enjoy your misery. My apologies are withdrawn. Have a wonderful life. I will too.


Alice

I'm actually kind of sorry that this is all you're taking away from here. There is so much more here, as has been stated already.

No, not agreeing with someone isn't bad behavior - depending on how you disagree with someone.

this thread as gone seriously off track from its intended purpose - which isn't to mock, despite what some may think. And if pointing out innaccuracies and blatant falseness is considered smugness - I'll gladly be called smug if it means even one newbie doesn't fall into PA's clutches.

TwentyFour
03-14-2008, 06:35 PM
I can tell you Jersey, I made this thread and certain people (initials AC) do not like me or Christine or others here, so a big stink was made in hopes of throwing the whole board into a tissy. Certain folks will not outright make a clear statement on what they want, they try to get others banned or entire threads locked and/or deleted to make their crowd pleased.

Fortunately many here realize who they are and what they are trying to do before it can be done. Childish pranks like that are evident and show a complete lack of morals.

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 06:46 PM
The issue here is copyright I sent a copy of my book --not an electronic copy. I am sure you will quickly see that PA could be concerned over electronic submissions. They are expressly forbidden on the second page of the book.

actually, as I believe has been previously discussed, there's no legitimate reason why any PA author cannot submit a book for the "Search Inside" feature. The statement by PA about "copyright" has also been given as to why they can't put PA books inside WalMart and has also been debunked. Major publishing houses aren't afraid to get their books into WalMart and also up on the Amazon search feature - and they're obviously not afraid of "copyright", as stated before.

in other words, PA continues to make it almost impossible for the author to sell books to the public - their primary audience, as stated in a court of law, is the author him/herself. Anything that would help the public find and purchase PA books is a Bad Thing, basically.

all the posts in a single thread. Too bad; there's so much else this forum has to offer. Ah, well... so it goes, as Father Kurt would say.

at least we got to correct some more mis/disinformation about PA books. And that's a Good Thing.

:)

allenparker
03-14-2008, 07:12 PM
I do not take the opinions of such unbalanced folks into account. Enjoy your misery. My apologies are withdrawn. Have a wonderful life. I will too.


Alice

The last desperate act of a loser is to make one final attack and run out with his tail tucked firmly between his legs.

Alice, learning to be a professional takes learning when to simply listen to others. Learning to be a loser only takes two fingers-- placed firmly over the eardrums.

My apologies were never issued. Have a wonderful life, earwax on your fingers and all. Doesn't that tail tickle you butt?


...Probably should have :Ssh:

jamiehall
03-14-2008, 07:18 PM
Your logic is juvenile. Your smugness is unbecoming.

Edit point: Alice wrote a book about Parkinson's Disease, from which she suffers. Your idiotic comment about a "Cancer Boy" and plagarism was out of place, inapropriate, offensive and infuriating. For all the concern and compassion you folks chatter about, the dismissive superiority and smugness expressed on this thread is thick enough to slice.

Please do stop re-insulting Dave about the same thing, especially since it seems everyone except you doesn't get why Dave's post should have been considered offensive. If you're doing it because you don't understand the history of "Cancer Boy" and his book, Sheryl Nantus has now posted a complete explanation a few posts back, and hopefully that should clear up any misunderstandings.

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 07:27 PM
I believe the "fuss" over Cancer Boy is that Mr. Rogers is making the assumption, and not wrongly from first impression, that we were discussing a PA author who was suffering from cancer and thus making fun of a sick man.

When, as pointed out in my post, the truth is that the author was NOT suffering from cancer and in fact was trying to sell a fake cure for cancer. Not the same thing.

Now that the facts are brought up in present context I doubt there'll be the same misunderstanding again.

Sean D. Schaffer
03-14-2008, 07:43 PM
Thank you all for your concern. The issue here is copyright I sent a copy of my book --not an electronic copy. I am sure you will quickly see that PA could be concerned over electronic submissions. They are expressly forbidden on the second page of the book.

What Alice Crooker has learned from coming here is that there are some very imaginative and creative writers here.

It is unclear to me where and when I "crucified" anyone. Also not agreeing with somebody is hardly" bad behaviour."

I do not take the opinions of such unbalanced folks into account. Enjoy your misery. My apologies are withdrawn. Have a wonderful life. I will too.


Alice


:(

That sounds like an argument I used to use ... whenever everyone on this or any other board proved me wrong without a shadow of a doubt. I'm saddened, not so much by Alice's apparent flounce, but rather by her refusal to listen to facts. I suppose the way people presented those facts might be part of her reason for leaving, but the facts were still legitimate.

I hope I do have a wonderful life, and a wondrous career. I know I'm not going to get either one by focusing my entire writing aspiration on PublishAmerica; that's why I don't usually come to this particular part of the board very much these days.

I'm so saddened to see someone staunchly defending PublishAmerica like this, because they don't see that this company has effectively ruined their many years -- and in some cases decades -- of hard work. PA books will have a chance to be in bookstores, but only if the author decides to peddle them to individual bookstore owners. Some PA books do sell, provided they are effectively advertised and their covers don't look like a three-year-old drew them. PA books are priced too high, considering the format they're printed in and the low quality of the volumes themselves. And the price for getting a book published through PA, though not a heavy monetary one, is still a devastating blow to an author's reputation, the Publishing Industry's outlook on their intelligence in some cases, and even could keep some writers from continuing to ply their Craft ... as was almost the case with me.

If PublishAmerica were legitimate, we likely would not be having this discussion. If they did not hurt authors, there would not be several dozen PA authors just on this board alone, warning people to steer clear of them. Most houses might have one or two people running around trying to diss their company, but PA has several hundred. Like the cover of an old Elvis Presley album once said, several hundred angry PA authors can't be wrong.

So Alice has apparently left. I'm sorry to see this happen, if only because she refused to listen to facts about PA. Personal experiences don't always meet up with what she got, and I think that might have hurt her pride. Maybe someday she'll be able to look at the situation more objectively. At such a time, I hope and pray PA authors are still given a chance to change.

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 09:04 PM
I think it'd take a pretty callous person to refer to someone who had cancer as Cancer Boy in order to mock him. Unless the person called themselves that (In Gilda Radner's book It's Always Something she tells of a character she created while in treatment for ovarian cancer - Cancer Woman - a superhero who could defeat any bad guy because she was beating cancer.) - but to use it in order to be derogatory? I'd be real surprised if there wasn't a dogpile on the person responsible.

DaveKuzminski
03-14-2008, 09:42 PM
I have a quick request. If you have been involved in arbitration with PA, please email me the name of your arbiter and whether you or PA won.

Captain Morgan
03-14-2008, 09:56 PM
Hmm, well now I have a better understanding of this whole Cancer Boy plagiarism thing.

I think i'd like to mention, that sometimes it's also the educated and well-off people that plagiarize too. A decade before I graduated, one of the kinesian (physical health?) professors ended up writing a book, which was plagiarized from one of the the student's thesis.

The student ended up reading the book when it came out, spotted her own work. BUSTED! I don't know how much she sued the prof for, but the teacher was promptly fired by the university for the incident.

Now, I don't want to get anyone paranoid here. God knows I keep hearing no-body writers all the time who's main concern is getting their ideas stolen, despite they haven't even put 1 world on on the page yet of their soon to be BEST-SELLER book.

Joanna_S
03-14-2008, 10:06 PM
Hasn't Alice flounced in nearly every one of her posts? She's said good-bye over and over again but never actually leaves.

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 10:23 PM
I believe Stephen Ambrose was also accused of plagiarism, wasn't he? And Dolores Kearns somebody as well. Both were/are (Ambrose is dead now) historians of some renown.

W. Lane Rogers
03-14-2008, 10:49 PM
[quote] Your refusal to recognise the sheer arrogance and stupidity of Cancer Boy and his blatant plagiarism is out of place, innapropriate, offensive and infuriating.

This is presumptuous nonesense. Prior to last evening, I had never heard of "Cancer Boy."

Kuzminski welcomed Alice to AW--after a fasion, at least. In the next breath, he launched a mini diatribe about plagiarism. The inference that she may have plagiarized was inescapable.

The comment was offensive, mean-spirited and ought to have been annoying to anyone who read it.

The issue is not "Cancer Boy" or plagarism. It is rudeness.

Arrogance is a word that ought to be tripped around lightly here.

TheChuck
03-14-2008, 10:56 PM
As someone who invited W. Lane Rogers here in the first place, to see the kind of treatment he is getting is appalling. Absolute Write should be better than this. If I had known this would have happened, I never would have encouraged Lane to come here. You should be ashamed of yourselves!

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 10:58 PM
You've got to be kidding.

Really.

Marian Perera
03-14-2008, 11:00 PM
As someone who invited W. Lane Rogers here in the first place, to see the kind of treatment he is getting is appalling.

I'd say he's given as good as he's got.

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 11:03 PM
is it a full moon?

or is everyone just ape-crazy and not reading what I wrote?

now THAT'S rude...

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 11:04 PM
I feel like I've stepped into an episode of The Twilight Zone.

Where's Rod?

**cues theme**

Afinerosesheis
03-14-2008, 11:09 PM
Lane, I would like to add that I know for a fact that Alice came here for the wrong reasons. She has been very rude to people here in the past and we all know it. Sure, we all can use a little more tact at times when we post. I speak for myself too. You can note that she left in a huff and called us unbalanced. One more insult to add to the many she has thrown our way.


It is NEVER my intention, EVER (sorry for the caps) to hurt any author, PA or otherwise. I have a few friends I still am in contact with who are current PA authors like myself. A publisher should not come between people who care a little for one another, but unfortunately it does. If PA has that power to turn people into ugly beasts, then there is a problem somewhere.

I took a lot of slack, lost several "friends" for stating unpopular opinions. It seems to me that some PA authors want to cry foul when we point out certain points about their publisher. Many of them in turn get nasty and the personal attacks begin in earnest. None of this is shoved in their faces. It is posted in appropriate writing forums. They are not obligated to read any of it.
Dave has assisted MANY authors from all publishing backgrounds about the nature of the business. He knows what he is about. He also knows why Alice came here, and it was not to learn.

If PA floats people's boats (and in many cases it does), then that's all good. Really. I could care less until authors began wondering why they are not selling their books, when perhaps they were led to expect more. When they ask about it they are blamed, badgered and banned. That's just WRONG.

I guess I should say that if people do not like what is said here, or the company that visits here, then they have to ability to post elsewhere. We are all adults here, aren't we?

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 11:10 PM
for those without a checklist - here's the actual post that is making Mr. Rogers go all nutzo:

"Well, now we know you read this section. I can only hope that you read carefully because we're only trying to get PA to either clean up its act or shut down. Either will suffice. We're not after authors unless they're outright plagiarists like "Cancer Boy" who published a PA book that was almost entirely produced with material that wasn't written by him and that he didn't have permission to reproduce and failed to properly attribute."

now, when *I* read that it seems to say to *ME* that Dave K. is defending AW against the usual whining from PA authors that AW is against the AUTHORS, not PA itself. The statement says to me that AW is NOT against PA authors unless they have done something truly outrageous - such as the writer known here as "Cancer Boy" (go read my previous post for clarification) because he was plagarizing something that wasn't his in the first place.

I did *not* connect it to any threat at all. Maybe Mr. Rogers has a huge chip on his shoulder against Dave K., but then he should take it to private email and leave the board out of it. His inability to read ALL the posts regarding possible interpretations of the statement and so forth is annoying, to say the least.

'nuff said.

AGAIN.

TheChuck
03-14-2008, 11:12 PM
Edit. Never mind. Not worth it. I stand by my words. Hang your heads in shame!!!

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 11:15 PM
never let the facts ruin a good temper tantrum, says I.

:D

Afinerosesheis
03-14-2008, 11:16 PM
You people make me sick. Have you NO shame? None?


You people? **SIGH** Did you read ANYTHING that Sheryl (or I) said? I'm going to run the vaccuum. It has sort of a calming effect, in sort of a "I might as well clean or my head will explode" manner.

Keep the lighters away from Jersey PALEEESE!

endless rewrite
03-14-2008, 11:21 PM
Chuck, perhaps you need to go back to the land without shame. If you make your way calmly past the lolipop trees and across the fruited plain, you'll find it the other side of your burning bridge.

Jersey Chick
03-14-2008, 11:21 PM
Don't worry -
a) not going to waste lighter fluid over that silly little flouncette
b) I've got half a dozen people coming for dinner tonight and cupcakes to cool and frost
c) just sooooo not worth the effort.
d) bigger things to set my hair on fire to.

But, if anyone else would like a lighter? Just let me know :D

Marian Perera
03-14-2008, 11:24 PM
Hang your heads in shame!!!

That's kind of wimpy. Try, "Commit honorable seppuku immediately!!!"

acrooker
03-14-2008, 11:24 PM
I'd say he's given as good as he's got.


Thank heavens you are not on the Supreme Court!

Monkey
03-14-2008, 11:26 PM
Edit. Never mind. Not worth it. I stand by my words. Hang your heads in shame!!!

:e2bummed:


:e2cry: Can I come out of the corner now? Pweease? :e2cry:





(Just figured I'd play along with the ridiculousness)

stormie
03-14-2008, 11:26 PM
:popcorn:

TheChuck
03-14-2008, 11:26 PM
never let the facts ruin a good temper tantrum, says I.

:D

None of you get it. Sad and sadder and appalling :(

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 11:27 PM
Thank heavens you are not on the Supreme Court!

welcome back!

:D

Marian Perera
03-14-2008, 11:27 PM
I'm glad you're enjoying your time here and don't want to leave, Alice. :)

Marian Perera
03-14-2008, 11:27 PM
None of you get it. Sad and sadder and appalling :(

I am playing the world's smallest violin just for you.

Sheryl Nantus
03-14-2008, 11:28 PM
None of you get it. Sad and sadder and appalling :(

yep, that's me. Totally appalling...

oh, wait - that's APPEALING...

:ROFL:

hey, it's about as literate as some of the other arguments being put forth here, right?

;)

Monkey
03-14-2008, 11:28 PM
Thank heavens you are not on the Supreme Court!

Uh...and exactly how many times are you going to flounce?

Captain Morgan
03-14-2008, 11:29 PM
I THINK I got along with her OK.

At least the posts here don't get removed so fast. Anyhow... no need to worry TOO much about PA writers not having a way to find out things. I noticed (while trying to find the PA forum), that if you type publish america, you basically come to this area of the AW forum, and most other links that pop up are all negative toward(s) PA.

In fact, to finid the PA (real) forum, I had to get it from a negative rant from some other site.

That said, after browsing their section... the BookSigning sub-forum over there in particular I found very amusing. Book signings which are a disaster for regular houses, seem to interpreted as a major success story over there.

Let me just state it that I am happy that regular publishers DON'T expect you to go off and do these things. If you want to you can of course... (why would you?). I certainly wouldn't. If I had a deal with Randomhouse I know damn sure they have professionals doing a lot of work on trying to promote that book for me. It is THEIR job.

DaveKuzminski
03-14-2008, 11:36 PM
[quote=xhouseboy;2154536]

Kuzminski welcomed Alice to AW--after a fasion, at least. In the next breath, he launched a mini diatribe about plagiarism. The inference that she may have plagiarized was inescapable.


Welcomed Alice? I did no such thing.

Nor did I infer that she might have plagiarized some other writer's words. I merely pointed out that we're not targeting honest writers because too often PA writers come in here with the belief that we're targeting them when we're trying to hold PA accountable for their actions. Outright plagiarists are an exception to the rule about not targeting authors because by definition they're not authors, they're thieves.

I suggest some remedial reading lessons might be in order for those unable to understand what I said the first time.

Monkey
03-14-2008, 11:43 PM
The reason I came was because I saw you were talking about Dick and me. I spoke in our defense.

Dave's post to Alice was perfectly reasonable. She obviously felt that any mention of herself or anyone else over at the PAMB - especially when those references were by nickname - were meant as attacks.

Dave, in effect, said, "We are angry with PA, not the authors, and don't attack authors unless they are really doing something terrible, like Cancer Boy".

This isn't silly, it's stupid. Can we quite batting it about now?

Monkey
03-14-2008, 11:48 PM
Right on, Mel.

JulieB
03-14-2008, 11:52 PM
I suspect that's why Sheryl re-posted your original post, Dave. Just to be sure everyone saw it.

I certainly didn't take it to mean that she was plagiarizing, or had written a book with bad medical science. (Her book, as I recall, is a personal story.)

But I can see how someone without a real background as to the history of these threads *might* see a different meaning in what you wrote.

Honestly, I do appreciate the new folks who take the time to read through the threads, but with two NEPAT threads, this huge thread and others, I can't blame someone for not being able to pick up on every little detail. Even as long as I've been around, there are still posts that make me go "huh?" until I go dig around and find the source material.

It would be good for us all to be cognizant of the fact that our new participants probably don't get some of the terms we use. We can't expect everyone to get completely up to speed quickly.

I'm not throwing barbs at anyone. I'm just issuing a gentle reminder that sometimes we need to put ourselves in the shoes of someone who has just joined us. The amount of information here is overwhelming.

To all of our new members: I'm very happy to see you here, and please feel free to ask questions if you don't understand some of the terms we toss around. Some of them are a kind of shorthand that's grown out of years of discussion. What looks like an insult on the surface may not be that at all.

Brenda Hill
03-14-2008, 11:56 PM
:(
I'm saddened, not so much by Alice's apparent flounce, but rather by her refusal to listen to facts. I suppose the way people presented those facts might be part of her reason for leaving, but the facts were still legitimate.


Sean, Alice knows the facts. I doubt she left because of the PA discussion. She's heard it all before and doesn't want to hear it again. As she says, she's not a serious writer so she's happy with PA--well, except for their marketing, of course.

That's what most of the PA's defenders say. They love having a book published, but gosh, couldn't someone give them an idea how to better market their books?

Then when someone from the 'outside' tries to offer advice, they get tarred and feathered for their efforts and accused of all sorts of monstrosities.

Makes you want to bang your head against the wall.

stormie
03-15-2008, 12:01 AM
Sean, Alice knows the facts. I doubt she left because of the PA discussion.
Alice didn't leave. I hope she does stick around to read the other boards here, like Learning to Write with Uncle Jim or the Writer's Roundtable.

acrooker
03-15-2008, 12:02 AM
Lane, I would like to add that I know for a fact that Alice came here for the wrong reasons. She has been very rude to people here in the past and we all know it. Sure, we all can use a little more tact at times when we post. I speak for myself too. You can note that she left in a huff and called us unbalanced. One more insult to add to the many she has thrown our way.


It is NEVER my intention, EVER (sorry for the caps) to hurt any author, PA or otherwise. I have a few friends I still am in contact with who are current PA authors like myself. A publisher should not come between people who care a little for one another, but unfortunately it does. If PA has that power to turn people into ugly beasts, then there is a problem somewhere.

I took a lot of slack, lost several "friends" for stating unpopular opinions. It seems to me that some PA authors want to cry foul when we point out certain points about their publisher. Many of them in turn get nasty and the personal attacks begin in earnest. None of this is shoved in their faces. It is posted in appropriate writing forums. They are not obligated to read any of it.
Dave has assisted MANY authors from all publishing backgrounds about the nature of the business. He knows what he is about. He also knows why Alice came here, and it was not to learn.

If PA floats people's boats (and in many cases it does), then that's all good. Really. I could care less until authors began wondering why they are not selling their books, when perhaps they were led to expect more. When they ask about it they are blamed, badgered and banned. That's just WRONG.

I guess I should say that if people do not like what is said here, or the company that visits here, then they have to ability to post elsewhere. We are all adults here, aren't we?


A few facts:

!. We went to AS because we didn't like the PAMB. We still do not.
2. You volunteered to moderate and suffered unspeakably.
3. Your friend from AW came and educated us concerning publshng.
4. We tired of it.
5. You told everyone I was "unbalanced." it seemed to be fine when you used it in reference to me, I don't understand your outrage at it now.

If you do not wish to be called a name--don't enter it into my
vocabulary.


Thanks,


Alice

IceCreamEmpress
03-15-2008, 12:02 AM
To all of our new members: I'm very happy to see you here, and please feel free to ask questions if you don't understand some of the terms we toss around. Some of them are a kind of shorthand that's grown out of years of discussion. What looks like an insult on the surface may not be that at all.

The actual meaning and import of Dave's comment were explained to Mr. Rogers several times. He chose to ignore all the explanations and instead nurse his sense of offense.

I would say "Do we have to draw him a diagram?" but several of the explanations were so crystal-clear that no diagram would have measured up.

Mel
03-15-2008, 12:03 AM
But I can see how someone without a real background as to the history of these threads *might* see a different meaning in what you wrote.

Honestly, I do appreciate the new folks who take the time to read through the threads, but with two NEPAT threads, this huge thread and others, I can't blame someone for not being able to pick up on every little detail. Even as long as I've been around, there are still posts that make me go "huh?" until I go dig around and find the source material.

This is what I don't get. I didn't make one post here until I read this entire thread, and others here about PA. Granted, by the time I was finished I forgot about 3/4 of the posts and my head felt like mush. :) At least read some of the back posts, and really, one needs to go back a few years but they could still skip around and get the gist of what this thread is all about and that it isn't going anywhere until and unless PA becomes honest about what it is, although we know that's unlikely to ever happen, or it closes its doors.

Brenda Hill
03-15-2008, 12:03 AM
Yup, I see that, stormie.

Sheryl Nantus
03-15-2008, 12:05 AM
A few facts:

!. We went to AS because we didn't like the PAMB. We still do not.
2. You volunteered to moderate and suffered unspeakably.
3. Your friend from AW came and educated us concerning publshng.
3. We tired of it.
4. You told everyone I was "unbalanced." it seemed to be fine when you used it in reference to me, I don't understand your outrage at it now.

If you do not wish to be called a name--don't enter it into my
vocabulary.


Thanks,


Alice

take it outside, girls... take it outside to PM or to the mods.

is it that hard for people to understand the basics on a message board?

*shakes head*

Marian Perera
03-15-2008, 12:09 AM
A few facts:

Your numbering is wrong. Two different points are labelled 3.

Monkey
03-15-2008, 12:09 AM
Maybe some nice, sweet mod could come along and transport some of the off-topic stuff to the landfill?

Marie Pacha
03-15-2008, 12:09 AM
Is there a way to mute an individual?

Marian Perera
03-15-2008, 12:10 AM
Is there a way to mute an individual?

Ignore button?

Afinerosesheis
03-15-2008, 12:10 AM
Sheryl, I am finished with it. She can flounce outside by her lonesome.

TwentyFour
03-15-2008, 12:12 AM
Lane has been nothing short of a gentleman to me in pm, I'm sure it is some sort of mix up and will soon be resolved. Maybe there is some bad blood between the two, there is bad blood between me and the duck lady but we do have this thing called an "ignore button" and it's best used in cases such as these.

JulieB
03-15-2008, 12:13 AM
Mel, I certainly lurked a long time before I posted here.

I wasn't afraid of getting flamed, but I just hate stepping into a conversation without knowing what's going on.

I'm still wiping egg off my face from a few of those instances!

But as I said, there was a LOT that I didn't pick up on, even while lurking and reading.

Christine N.
03-15-2008, 12:19 AM
As someone who invited W. Lane Rogers here in the first place, to see the kind of treatment he is getting is appalling. Absolute Write should be better than this. If I had known this would have happened, I never would have encouraged Lane to come here. You should be ashamed of yourselves!

Wow. I'm totally confused. Lane, how did you arrive at the conclusion that Dave was saying that Alice was plagarizing? I guess if you didn't know the whole story, you couldn't place the reference, and it would seem different.

I'll say I'm sorry for the confusion, and I'd totally bet Dave didn't mean ANY of what you've implied. Because he's just not like that.

I think we've come into a comedy of errors and miscommunication.

I've been wishing Lane would come here for awhile now. He's too good for PA, as most people there are. I thought he would have fit right in.


Edit. Never mind. Not worth it. I stand by my words. Hang your heads in shame!!!


No, shan't.

Did Alice un-flounce. Figures. And she calls ME unbalanced. Well, I guess she's called me worse before, though I'm sure she doesn't recall. Doesn't recall much that she gives, but holds a very strict accounting of what she gets. Like many people, I guess, always the victim.

Mel
03-15-2008, 12:19 AM
It is overwhelming when you first start posting here. Still helps to know the point of this thread first, though.

It's a loooong thread. :)

Alexandra Little
03-15-2008, 12:22 AM
And it updates quickly--twelve hours later and three pages had been added on from the last point that I had read. And then another page as I was trying to catch up.

TwentyFour
03-15-2008, 12:23 AM
Yeah, and PAMB has been quiet most of the day...go figure!

Christine N.
03-15-2008, 12:25 AM
Personally I'll stop feeding the troll, from this point forward.

Just FYI, a troll is anyone who shows up on a message board with the intent to spread disharmony, insults, and bait people into arguments.

acrooker
03-15-2008, 12:26 AM
Your numbering is wrong. Two different points are labelled 3.


Thanks! Great Catch. A for the day for you.

Alice

Jersey Chick
03-15-2008, 12:30 AM
I made a few missteps back in the beginning. Even now, after over a year, there are references to things before my time - and someone usually explains and I say, "Ahhh.... now it makes sense."

I'm not feeding the trolls. There's no purpose and this week's been rough enough as it is for me personally. If someone looks hard enough, they will find something to be offended by - simple fact of life. If chuck has a problem, no one's forcing him to stay. Same goes for Alice or anyone. I hate seeing this thread derailed so badly because the last thing I want is to see it locked completely. And I don't know if that will happen, but still...

Gravity
03-15-2008, 12:34 AM
This is one amazing thread.

dpaterso
03-15-2008, 12:36 AM
This is a "take a deep breath please" temp thread lock.

It'll be re-opened later once emotions cool.

-Derek

Rolling Thunder
03-15-2008, 01:30 AM
Off topic posts from http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2156455#post2156455

TheChuck
03-16-2008, 07:13 PM
Or if you feel that a Thank God for Publish America thread will not be so warmly received, just start a thread about how happy you are with your advance and your five free copies of your book.

How about a "We try to be welcoming to PA authors but we can't get over ourselves long enough to actually do it" thread?

TheChuck
03-17-2008, 05:14 AM
Unlike most PA books, I was able to get my rights back and find a WONDERFULLY AWESOME Publisher for my PA book. Here, have a cookie.

acrooker
03-17-2008, 07:31 PM
Christine,

Someway in your busy schedule, you'd better make time to bring your publisher to account. You are not in a Barnes and Noble bookstore. I will visit my book soon and was hoping to pick up copies of yours while there. The bookstore is the Barnes and Noble at Issaquah, WA.

I have noticed my book was available there for quite sometime. Due to the utter impossibility of a book by a PA author ever being placed in a bookstore, I figured it was a mistake. I called the store and they had 6 copies. I hope to see your books also.

Thanks,


Alice

Sheryl Nantus
03-17-2008, 07:34 PM
Alice, people are trying to be nice to you.

why can't you return the favor?

people have NOT put down your book at all and here you are slamming someone who has succeeded in getting her work published with a legitimate publisher.

how sad.

Marian Perera
03-17-2008, 07:38 PM
If you have something personal to say to another poster here, Alice, perhaps you could take it to PM. This thread is supposed to be about the PAMB and its quotes.

For someone who keeps leaving this thread, you just can't seem to stay away.

TheChuck
03-17-2008, 07:50 PM
While I'm not a fan of Chirstine N. or the other PAMB obsessed naval gazers on here, I will say your post was a low blow and offensive. Alice, your book isn't in any bookstore within 250 of miles of me; I called and checked, while Christine's is.

JimmyD1318
03-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Changing this to agree with Jersey. Take it to PMs.

acrooker
03-17-2008, 07:56 PM
Alice, people are trying to be nice to you.

why can't you return the favor?

people have NOT put down your book at all and here you are slamming someone who has succeeded in getting her work published with a legitimate publisher.

how sad.

Slamming her book--hardly! I am trying to purchase it.

Thanks,


Alice

Monkey
03-17-2008, 07:58 PM
Christine,

Someway in your busy schedule, you'd better make time to bring your publisher to account. You are not in a Barnes and Noble bookstore. I will visit my book soon and was hoping to pick up copies of yours while there. The bookstore is the Barnes and Noble at Issaquah, WA.

Being a PA author, you know full well that if you want to pick up a book at Barnes&Noble, all you have to do is call up and request it. If you really want Christine's book, and you want to get it at B&N as opposed to any of the other places it's available, you can do so easily.

Of course, that didn't seem to be the real point of your post.

This was a fairly blatant snipe at a fellow AW member, and it's not appreciated. It also seemed to imply that Christine's publisher wasn't doing as well by her as PA was doing by you but that's a pretty laughable case, if indeed it's the one you are trying to make. Whomever put that book there, it wasn't PA...as opposed to Christine's publisher, which is actually out there marketing, working to get her books into stores. The difference, really, is that PA tries to market to its authors rather than the general public; you can bet that Christine isn't getting E-mails offering bulk discounts on her own work.



I have noticed my book was available there for quite sometime. Due to the utter impossibility of a book by a PA author ever being placed in a bookstore, I figured it was a mistake. I called the store and they had 6 copies. I hope to see your books also.


It's strange that you thought it utterly impossible for a PA book to be in a bookstore. You won't find that claim on this board...I wonder where you got that impression?

The fact is, PA books DO get into bookstores...if their authors (or another individual on the author's behalf) work hard enough to put them there. The problem is that PA itself won't do this because that's not the business they are in. They want to sell to YOU, not to a bookstore.

Mel
03-17-2008, 07:59 PM
Slamming her book--hardly! I am trying to purchase it.

Then why didn't you PM her instead. As has been repeatedly said, well, please read Queen of Swords post again.

acrooker
03-17-2008, 08:17 PM
I know for a fact that there is someone out there somewhere, right at this minute, suffering from the effects of PD. They are looking for answers for their disease. There is a book out there called "Peas pills and Parkinsons" written by a lady who posesses a good wit and intellect. Wouldn't it be awesome if the PD afflicted person could find the book and read it? But no, they can't because 'Peas Pills and Parkinsons' publisher does not do mass marketing or any promotion.

So the PD person has to settle for the books she (lets say it is a woman) has access to. She does not have internet and has very few family and friends to help out. She is hoping the local library might have something, but she just can't find what she is looking for. She complains to people that she just can't find a good enough book about PD and is greatly disappointed. She thinks: I know there has to be a good book about PD out there somewhere. I just can't find one.

Even if she could find it, she could not afford a copy.
But wait! It's all good. The author got a dollar and five free copies.

Now, THAT is a tragedy of PA.


Nobody took offense at this post. Now I am a lady who has Parkinson's disease and I want a book about Zandria.

Where can I get it?

Thanks,

Alice

Marian Perera
03-17-2008, 08:20 PM
Take it to another thread, Alice.

Monkey
03-17-2008, 08:21 PM
Try clicking the links in her post on the same page as your question.

Do you know the meaning of the internet slang term "troll", Alice?

Jersey Chick
03-17-2008, 08:22 PM
No one took offense at it because there was nothing in it to offend. **sigh**

:Headbang:

Just PM Christine - this really isn't the place for this...

Sheryl Nantus
03-17-2008, 08:24 PM
Take it to another thread, Alice.

echoed.

you might get away with this petty whining on other boards, but one of the rules here is to RESPECT YOUR FELLOW WRITER.

you're hardly following that - and frankly, I don't care if you do have Parkinson's. There are plenty of people on these boards who suffer from a variety of ailments and they somehow manage to be polite and contribute positively.

Toothpaste
03-17-2008, 08:25 PM
Just a thought, Alice you do know what PM means right? Sometimes people don't always know how the forum works. PM means Private Message. You can send a person a private message if you click on their name. The reason people are asking you to do that is because this thread is meant as a discussion about the PAMB, not how one buys Christine's book. That's all.

ETA: To help you out, here is a link to Christine in the AW library, which tells you how to get a copy of her book: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27103

endless rewrite
03-17-2008, 08:31 PM
Alice had a good idea, I'm going to buy a copy of Christine's book too. Alice, do let me know when your new children's book is out. You said you were checking out the 'writing for children thread' the last time you said goodbye here. BTW, welcome back - again.

Brenda Hill
03-17-2008, 09:27 PM
Strike and retreat, strike and retreat, then feign innocence. The same old MO. I should have known.