Christian Breaking Point-Wealth Saying?

Speaking of camels and wealth, could you do something with this:

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Like "The camel that choked the needle's eye"? I dunno.

III said:

-It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

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I've seen several theories about the exact meaning of this phrase, including hyperbolic metaphor, mistranslation, and referring to the gate into Jerusalem.

Any thoughts?

the denarius that broke the camel's back? (Judas was paid with denarii, it was also the coin Jesus was looking at when he said 'render unto Caesar...')

The tithe that broke the camel's back? (great for the christian context)

It is easier for the moneylender to pass through the camel's eye than for the needle to enter the temple of the Lord?

Render the camel unto caesar?

How about 'The 30 pieces of silver that broke the camels back?'

rugcat said:

I've seen several theories about the exact meaning of this phrase, including hyperbolic metaphor, mistranslation, and referring to the gate into Jerusalem.

Any thoughts?

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I'd heard the idea that it was a literal gate in Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle" that camels had to get on their knees to get through, but there's no evidence for that at all and nobody seems to know who came up with that idea. Some have theorized that the "camel" is actually referring to a thread of camel's hair which is larger and coarser than regular thread, but I don't think the language supports that idea.

I think it's typical Jesus hyperbolic metaphor to make a point. That's how he rolled.

Yeah, I've never thought that it meant anything other than 'There ain't no way!'

Sarpedon said:

It is easier for the moneylender to pass through the camel's eye than for the needle to enter the temple of the Lord?

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I like the surrealist tones of this one.

Sarpedon said:

Yeah, I've never thought that it meant anything other than 'There ain't no way!'

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But what's interesting is that depending on whether you believe the other theories, the meaning could change from "there ain't no way" to "rather difficult."

A fine distinction, to be sure. I tend to agree with III; it makes sense to view it as a rhetorical device to make a point, rather than an absolute proscription against the rich.

Either way, I won't have to worry.

Easier for a camel to thread a needle than for a rich man to get a temple pass.

Oh, gawd, that's funny!

How about:

It's easier for a camel to thread a needle than for a poor man to get a ticket for the High Holidays to the synagogue where you couldn't pay him to belong.

III said:

"The camel that choked the needle's eye"

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I love this one.

And the way I see it, the only way to get a camel through the eye of a needle is to melt its molecular structure down to liquid and squirt it through. That fits with the Christian idea of those who are accepted must first die to themselves and become new creatures.

rugcat said:

A fine distinction, to be sure. I tend to agree with III; it makes sense to view it as a rhetorical device to make a point, rather than an absolute proscription against the rich.

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I don't think that makes sense. It seems pretty clear, especially when considered in context with Jesus' other pronouncements against the rich. E.g. 'If you want to be my disciple, sell all you have, and give to the poor.' 'If a man asks you for your cloak, give him your shirt too.' ''Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth. A man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." "'No one can serve two masters. He will hate the one and love the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Jesus went on and on with this subject.

The tendency of modern christians to interpret it according to their convenience notwithstanding, Jesus was pretty clear on the subject; money is bad, those who value money are immoral. Rather than introducing all these tortured explaination to produce the desired interpretation, its far better to interpret it in the context of Jesus' other teachings, which, wouldn't you know it, supports the simplest and most natural interpretation. A camel can't pass through the eye of a needle, and a rich man can't get into heaven.

Back on topic: "If a man asks you for your cloak, give him your shirt, too, but if he asks you for your sword, thats the straw that broke the camel's back"
(Jesus also said "If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Kind of gives a whole new meaning to 'cloak and dagger')

"Ma, can I borrow a needle? Mines' got a camel stuck in it."

"If your camel can't pass through the eye of the needle, pluck it out!"