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Balldez
03-10-2008, 05:47 AM
I have written a very well researched book about the obesity epidemic but I cannot even get an agent to read any of it. They tell me that because I do not have the letters MD or PhD after my name no publisher will take is seriously no matter how good it is. I point out to them that doctors have been writing books about diets and people are still getting fatter but that does not seem to phase them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

veinglory
03-10-2008, 05:50 AM
If that is their only objection and those are the types of publishers you want, you might get a lettered expert to write you a positive preface.

Balldez
03-10-2008, 06:22 AM
If that is their only objection and those are the types of publishers you want, you might get a lettered expert to write you a positive preface.

Michael Karolchyk from Anti-Gym has a agreed to write the foreword but he is also having the same problem getting anyone to take him seriously. I have also been in contact with MeMe Roth from NAAO and she is also working on getting a book published. I was thinking of going to a diploma mill and getting a "degree."

I think an MD would be a good choice but my book is not kind to the medical profession.

I really get the idea that the publishing business if full of very arrogant and conservative people. I went to s site called Predators & Editors and when I went to the agent's page I found that there were many more listed as not recommended than recommended. I recall a booking agent my band used to deal with and he was a real slime but he had all the clubs sewed up so if you wanted to play you had to deal with him.

I also have been warned about some very unscrupulous publishers.

veinglory
03-10-2008, 06:44 AM
I doubt they would be impressed by a mill degree. Publishers that focussed on credentials will know the difference.

ResearchGuy
03-10-2008, 06:46 AM
. . . called Predtors & Editors and when I went to the agent's page I found that there were many more listed as not recommended than recommended. . . .
That is because P&E specializes in exposing scams. It is NOT a random sample of agents.

You have your work cut out for you from square one. Your first mistake was in writing a book before researching the market and what is necessary in order to attract the interest of an agent or publisher. You do not face an impossible task, but it is an extremely difficult one with many potential pitfalls.

Here are some starting points:

Basic homework

Go to some big bookstores, with pen and notebook. Look through the kinds of books you want to write. You should of course already be reading such books, as it is unlikely that you can write well what you do not choose to read.
Take notes on publishers. Take notes on mentions of agents in acknowledgements. Those publishers and agents are potential targets for your manuscript.
Contact publishers who publish the kind of book you have written or want to write. Ask for their guidelines for authors. (You might be able to find them on the Web.) Study the guidelines.
See which publishers accept unagented submissions. See the next section for resources, and also look at publishers’ websites. Publishers that do not accept “unsolicited submissions” might read a query letter. If the publisher responds to the query with a request for a book proposal or manuscript, then the manuscript or book proposal is solicited, not unsolicited.
Look up information (see next section) on agents who have represented manuscripts like yours or are seeking the kind of thing you have written.
Keep a running list of potential agents and publishers. You can do that in a file on your PC or on plain old note cards or in a notebook. Leave room for adding comments later.

Hit the books

A handful of essential reference books belong on your shelves, well thumbed, marked up, and flagged with Post-Its.

Trade references
[I]Writer’s Market (latest edition), published by Writer’s Digest Press. This annual volume lists numerous publishers of books and periodicals and some literary agents, with useful information on what sorts of books they accept and other conditions. It also includes articles on writing and publishing.
Guide to Literary Agents (latest edition). Another annual from Writer’s Digest Press. It includes chapters on formatting manuscripts, writing queries, and more.
Jeff Herman’s Guide to Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents (latest edition). This is a more selective guide, but also more detailed. It excludes periodicals, as the focus is on books. It also includes valuable articles on such topics as writing queries and book proposals.
The Writer’s Handbook (latest edition), published by The Writer Books. Another directory of publishers plus advice on writing. Older volumes, which might be available in libraries, can be valuable for their articles on many aspects of writing. (This annual might not be as easy to find as the ubiquitous Writer’s Market.)
Literary Marketplace. This is the comprehensive guide to publishers and literary agents. You can find it in large libraries.If you have to pick only one, I recommend Writer’s Market.

Resources for finding agents and publishers

In addition to the articles in Writer’s Market and comparable books in the previous section, the following are worth your time and money:
Bulletproof Book Proposals, by Pam Brodowsky and Eric Neuhaus (Writer’s Digest Books, 2006).
The Making of a Bestseller, by Brian Hill and Dee Power (Dearborn Trade Publishing, 2005).
How to Get a Literary Agent, by Michael Larsen (Sourcebooks, 2006). Larsen is a long-established agent (Larsen/Pomada Agency).--Ken

Balldez
03-10-2008, 08:51 AM
That is because P&E specializes in exposing scams. It is NOT a random sample of agents.

Actually P&E recommends reputable agents.

You have your work cut out for you from square one. Your first mistake was in writing a book before researching the market and what is necessary in order to attract the interest of an agent or publisher. You do not face an impossible task, but it is an extremely difficult one with many potential pitfalls.

Actually I did the research. I read most of the popular diets books. I watched the book shelves and Amazon and saw that there was a new book published every week. Most diet books are poorly written and a drag to read. The biggest problem with diet books is the information they present is not helping people lose weight. This book could be placed in several section of a book store because it fits several categories. As to my lack of credentials, if you look at the weight loss success of people who have read books by today's diet gurus one would see a dismal 2% success rate.

Here are some starting points:

Basic homework

Go to some big bookstores, with pen and notebook. Look through the kinds of books you want to write. You should of course already be reading such books, as it is unlikely that you can write well what you do not choose to read.
Take notes on publishers. Take notes on mentions of agents in acknowledgements. Those publishers and agents are potential targets for your manuscript.
Contact publishers who publish the kind of book you have written or want to write. Ask for their guidelines for authors. (You might be able to find them on the Web.) Study the guidelines.
See which publishers accept unagented submissions. See the next section for resources, and also look at publishers’ websites. Publishers that do not accept “unsolicited submissions” might read a query letter. If the publisher responds to the query with a request for a book proposal or manuscript, then the manuscript or book proposal is solicited, not unsolicited.
Look up information (see next section) on agents who have represented manuscripts like yours or are seeking the kind of thing you have written.
Keep a running list of potential agents and publishers. You can do that in a file on your PC or on plain old note cards or in a notebook. Leave room for adding comments later.

Hit the books

A handful of essential reference books belong on your shelves, well thumbed, marked up, and flagged with Post-Its.

Trade references
Writer’s Market (latest edition), published by Writer’s Digest Press. This annual volume lists numerous publishers of books and periodicals and some literary agents, with useful information on what sorts of books they accept and other conditions. It also includes articles on writing and publishing.
Guide to Literary Agents (latest edition). Another annual from Writer’s Digest Press. It includes chapters on formatting manuscripts, writing queries, and more.
Jeff Herman’s Guide to Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents (latest edition). This is a more selective guide, but also more detailed. It excludes periodicals, as the focus is on books. It also includes valuable articles on such topics as writing queries and book proposals.
The Writer’s Handbook (latest edition), published by The Writer Books. Another directory of publishers plus advice on writing. Older volumes, which might be available in libraries, can be valuable for their articles on many aspects of writing. (This annual might not be as easy to find as the ubiquitous Writer’s Market.)
Literary Marketplace. This is the comprehensive guide to publishers and literary agents. You can find it in large libraries.If you have to pick only one, I recommend Writer’s Market.

Resources for finding agents and publishers

In addition to the articles in Writer’s Market and comparable books in the previous section, the following are worth your time and money:
Bulletproof Book Proposals, by Pam Brodowsky and Eric Neuhaus (Writer’s Digest Books, 2006).
The Making of a Bestseller, by Brian Hill and Dee Power (Dearborn Trade Publishing, 2005).
How to Get a Literary Agent, by Michael Larsen (Sourcebooks, 2006). Larsen is a long-established agent (Larsen/Pomada Agency).--Ken

I have read some articles on writing letters of query and I have been careful to follow each agents unique guidelines. My book is explained in my book. If I could explain it is a query letter then I would not have needed 20K words in one chapter alone explaining the flaws in the diet books I reviewed. This is new stuff and I is not something that can be explained in a few paragraphs. I even had to invent new words in order to convey certain concepts.

Ken thank you for the sound advice. I have done a lot of what you have suggested but I have not read the books you listed.

One problem I face is this book is unique. Unlike most diet books it dose not follow a formula. The typical formula in a diet book is to act as an apologist for the dieter, villianize a food group, justify their absurd theory, ignore reality and then fill the next 200 pages with recipes. I don't want to right a book like that. This book debunks people like Atkins and Dr Phil by using available data sets and my own reconnaissance and study of obese people in ways no one else has ever tried. I did not want to write a formula book loaded with worthless information.

My plea to agents has been that this book is worthwhile because it contains valuable information and it is a really good read for a non fiction book. I am sure it will create a lot of buzz because it is so unique and bold.

I am seeking a co author with credentials and I am more than willing to remain a ghost writer on this project.

ResearchGuy
03-10-2008, 06:21 PM
. . .If I could explain it is a query letter then I would not have needed 20K words in one chapter alone explaining the flaws in the diet books I reviewed. . . .
If you cannot get to the point (hook, purpose, qualifications, market) in a one-page query, cannot pique an agent's or publisher's interest in that span, you are not going to attract any interest. Get to the point in 200 words and you have a chance. Else, plan on self-publishing, subsidy publishing, or vanity publishing.

I do not want to sound unkind, but it would not be kind to mislead you on that most essential issue.

--Ken

flashgordon
03-10-2008, 08:19 PM
I think you just need to explore some smaller presses. There are a lot that deal with health-related titles and they are not overly concerned with your credentials. Most of the smaller presses don't work through agents, they just take direct queries. It also seems odd that they give the "credential excuse" since there are tons of books out there on diet, health, psychology, etc. from non-Ph.D. or MD people.

And I agree, we have a huge obesity problem but a plethora of diet books... somethings not working.

Balldez
03-10-2008, 11:36 PM
If you cannot get to the point (hook, purpose, qualifications, market) in a one-page query, cannot pique an agent's or publisher's interest in that span, you are not going to attract any interest. Get to the point in 200 words and you have a chance. Else, plan on self-publishing, subsidy publishing, or vanity publishing.

I do not want to sound unkind, but it would not be kind to mislead you on that most essential issue.

--Ken

I am not sure what will get their interest. I tell them this is a book about the plague of the 21st century. I tell them that 400,000 people die each year because of obesity and that my book contains the solution to the obesity riddle. I present a weight loss method that has a better chance of working than any of the harebrained schemes represented by charlatans like Dr Phil and late and bloated Robert Atkins. The fact that Atkin's rubbish did not come with a caveat saying this diet advice is dangerous tells me that the publishers of Atkin's trash are unscrupulous money grubbing lowlife rat bastards.

The most essential issue is this work is very important and it is of interest to every human being in the United States. The fact that is challenges all the conventional wisdom by using available data sets and innovative research methods should be enough to make them curious as to what else is in it.

I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

Here is what I think the problem could be. This book does not speakin dulcimer tones of and to the obese. Every other book on the subject tells them that it is not their fault. This book tells fat people that obesity is entirely their fault and it does it using their own words and several scientific certainties. Given the fact that humans are habitually dishonest and vain, telling them something that they have cleverly managed to deny makes telling the truth regarding their behavior unpopular. If you couple that with the fact that 67% of Americans are indeed gluttons to one degree or another the odd of not finding someone in the publishing stream who is not a hedonistic and easily offended glutton are slim. People love to be patronized with lies. Why else would they elect Bush twice? I think the problem may be publishers have been feeding the public what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. Telling someone that their obesity in entirely their fault is unpopular. Telling someone that their behavior is killing their kids is unpopular. Suggesting that gluttony is unpopular. Suggesting that America is the fattest country on earth because its citizenry is a bunch of weak willed gluttons riding a denial train to hell.

I was told by several agents that you cannot insult the reader. I think that is crap. People love to be insulted. Americans like nothing more than to express their phony moral outrage. For instance, I contend that fat people are immoral gormandizers who love food more than they love their kids because if they cared even a little about their kids they would be good role models and not pass the life threatening illnesses that come with bad dietary habits onto their kids if indeed they really loved them. Of course the the only response to that is to figure out a way to blame Bill Clinton and the tooth fairy.

I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors. I point out by example these depraved behaviors that our twisted society has now normalized. I even go so far to suggest that this may be part of an evolutionary process that will eventually act as a selecting agent rendering people of more primitive behaviors extinct due to their inability to reproduce.

I explain the damage gluttony is doing to the US economically. I present a view that suggests fat people are bad citizens. Instead of making people who want to combat this crisis the villain I explain why fat people and their enablers are the real villains. It is not an easy sell something when you are unequivocally telling an unpopular truth but I will not write any other way. I ran out of bullshit a long time ago.

My other thought is this. Judging by all the drivel that is landing on book store shelves there must be a lot of people in the publishing world that are completely full of shit.

What is going to happen now is all the fat people here are going to get pissed off at me for suggestion something I will eventually prove and that is they are all unabashed gluttons. This is the point. What I have said in this book will spark a strong debate and that is what is needed. I have said that the emperor has no clothes now open you eyes and look.

If you feel insulted because it is my belief that obesity is a result of a moral failing come right back at me.

IceCreamEmpress
03-10-2008, 11:52 PM
Lots of people who are not doctors or scientists have written very successful books about diet, nutrition, and exercise.

Gary Taubes, Michael Pollan, Dave Zinczenko, Gina Kolata, and others have had best-sellers about diet and nutrition in the last year. All of these folks are journalists, not scientists.

And then there's Mireille Guiliano, who worked in public relations, and has sold a kajillion books in the French Women Don't Get Fat series.

You need to be able to sum up the message of your book effectively in a query letter and proposal, or you won't be able to sell it. Writing a more effective query letter and proposal would be a much better use of your time and energy than acquiring a fake degree.

And, as veinglory says, finding a respected professional to write a foreword or introduction for your book couldn't hurt.

DeadlyAccurate
03-11-2008, 12:03 AM
I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

Writing maxim: show, don't tell.

A good writer doesn't have to tell everyone their book is a thesaurus-full of adjectives. The query and writing samples will show that.

BenPanced
03-11-2008, 12:27 AM
I am not sure what will get their interest. I tell them this is a book about the plague of the 21st century. I tell them that 400,000 people die each year because of obesity and that my book contains the solution to the obesity riddle. I present a weight loss method that has a better chance of working than any of the harebrained schemes represented by charlatans like Dr Phil and late and bloated Robert Atkins. The fact that Atkin's rubbish did not come with a caveat saying this diet advice is dangerous tells me that the publishers of Atkin's trash are unscrupulous money grubbing lowlife rat bastards.

The most essential issue is this work is very important and it is of interest to every human being in the United States. The fact that is challenges all the conventional wisdom by using available data sets and innovative research methods should be enough to make them curious as to what else is in it.

I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

Here is what I think the problem could be. This book does not speakin dulcimer tones of and to the obese. Every other book on the subject tells them that it is not their fault. This book tells fat people that obesity is entirely their fault and it does it using their own words and several scientific certainties. Given the fact that humans are habitually dishonest and vain, telling them something that they have cleverly managed to deny makes telling the truth regarding their behavior unpopular. If you couple that with the fact that 67% of Americans are indeed gluttons to one degree or another the odd of not finding someone in the publishing stream who is not a hedonistic and easily offended glutton are slim. People love to be patronized with lies. Why else would they elect Bush twice? I think the problem may be publishers have been feeding the public what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. Telling someone that their obesity in entirely their fault is unpopular. Telling someone that their behavior is killing their kids is unpopular. Suggesting that gluttony is unpopular. Suggesting that America is the fattest country on earth because its citizenry is a bunch of weak willed gluttons riding a denial train to hell.

I was told by several agents that you cannot insult the reader. I think that is crap. People love to be insulted. Americans like nothing more than to express their phony moral outrage. For instance, I contend that fat people are immoral gormandizers who love food more than they love their kids because if they cared even a little about their kids they would be good role models and not pass the life threatening illnesses that come with bad dietary habits onto their kids if indeed they really loved them. Of course the the only response to that is to figure out a way to blame Bill Clinton and the tooth fairy.

I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors. I point out by example these depraved behaviors that our twisted society has now normalized. I even go so far to suggest that this may be part of an evolutionary process that will eventually act as a selecting agent rendering people of more primitive behaviors extinct due to their inability to reproduce.

I explain the damage gluttony is doing to the US economically. I present a view that suggests fat people are bad citizens. Instead of making people who want to combat this crisis the villain I explain why fat people and their enablers are the real villains. It is not an easy sell something when you are unequivocally telling an unpopular truth but I will not write any other way. I ran out of bullshit a long time ago.

My other thought is this. Judging by all the drivel that is landing on book store shelves there must be a lot of people in the publishing world that are completely full of shit.

What is going to happen now is all the fat people here are going to get pissed off at me for suggestion something I will eventually prove and that is they are all unabashed gluttons. This is the point. What I have said in this book will spark a strong debate and that is what is needed. I have said that the emperor has no clothes now open you eyes and look.

If you feel insulted because it is my belief that obesity is a result of a moral failing come right back at me.
I think this sums it up. Much of what you've written in here is confrontational, anecdotal, and based on personal opinion. Even if you were a professional, if you can't back it up with proven, solid facts and only present insults, personal soapbox, and stories you've heard from others, it's not going to have much of a chance with a larger publisher.

*banninates self from thread*

Sheryl Nantus
03-11-2008, 12:28 AM
so... fat people are evil?

sounds like a bestseller to me!

:D

(of course, you may want to put some filler in there...)

*chuckles*

awatkins
03-11-2008, 12:33 AM
I'm going to port this over to Writing Nonfiction Books. Hang on to your keyboards.

Bubastes
03-11-2008, 12:42 AM
If it's truly controversial, I think a publisher WILL want the book. Controversy sells books. But you have to be able to hook them with a query and/or book proposal first, then follow up with powerful writing.

I suspect that the lack of credentials isn't the problem here. Just my opinion.

Soccer Mom
03-11-2008, 12:45 AM
I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors. I present a view that suggests fat people are bad citizens. Instead of making people who want to combat this crisis the villain I explain why fat people and their enablers are the real villains.

Um, who do you propose is going to buy this? Clue gun alert: skinny people don't buy diet books and fat people don't buy books that ridicule them. This might have something to do with the fact that publishers don't want you. They want to sell books, not "provoke discussion."

ResearchGuy
03-11-2008, 01:01 AM
I am not sure what will get their interest. . . . .
This will: showing how your book will be profitable for the publisher while fitting within the scope of that publisher's catalog. Nothing else will do it. Writers who want to get their books published make that case and do so effectively.

I believe I can say with absolute confidence that you will not hit that mark, on the basis of what you have posted here.

Try self-publishing. Some informative and useful threads on Absolute Write focus on self-publishing (I have posted many times in those threads). Or approach a vanity press or a subsidy publisher. You might well have a perfect book for PublishAmerica, a widely used vanity press that is unlikely to be troubled by the tone or controversial nature of your book.

Good luck with your endeavors.

--Ken

IceCreamEmpress
03-11-2008, 01:04 AM
Um, who do you propose is going to buy this? Clue gun alert: skinny people don't buy diet books and fat people don't buy books that ridicule them.

There is this, too.

Actually, many people whose weight is optimal for their frame and musculature do buy books about diet and nutrition, because they want to maintain good health and fitness. And because they're interested in diet and nutrition in general.

But, yeah, people aren't going to buy a book because they want to know some random person's opinion of obesity as a health or social-policy issue. If a book doesn't present new information (which this doesn't sound like it does), or a new solution to an issue (which this doesn't sound like it does), it's not clear what the point of it is.

And I don't think many people assume that ridicule or scolding is a helpful solution to either a health or a social-policy issue. Although I like the idea of a book called Scold the Fat!. Maybe Ann Coulter would write a foreword for that one.

JeanneTGC
03-11-2008, 01:06 AM
*sing to the tune of Randy Newman's "Short People"*

Fat people got,
no reason,
Fat people got,
no reason,
Fat people got,
no reason to live...

You know, that song was about the idiocy that is prejudice and bigotry. Really, in this day and age, is attacking any group of people the right way to bring about any kind of positive change?

With no credentials and an attack on the very people who would buy your book, I can understand why no legitimate publisher would want to touch it. As a reader, I sure wouldn't want to touch it.

Birol
03-11-2008, 01:08 AM
I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors.

And this works so well on elementary school playgrounds.

CasualObserver
03-11-2008, 01:18 AM
You're proposing rudeness as the latest fad diet, don't want to learn to query because they ought to just read the book instead, and publishers are all a bunch of evil sell-out rat bastards. Sounds very, "I reject your reality and insert my own." Unfortunately for you, I don't think this is the short-cut to breaking in to publication.


I am not sure what will get their interest.
A well-written book, thoroughly researched, with market appeal.

Head over to the Query forum. Listen to what they tell you (that's the important part). Make up a list of agents who work in your genre. Write a good query and submit. Then submit again. Rinse and repeat until you reach the bottom of your list. If you don't have an agent by then, examine your query letters for possible areas of improvement and edit your work. Begin querying from the top. While you're working on all this, begin your second book.

If all this rigamarole gets annoying, no one knows just how annoying better than we do and we adore commiserating.

Sheryl Nantus
03-11-2008, 01:20 AM
for the life of me I can't tell if this is a serious thread or not...

CasualObserver
03-11-2008, 01:26 AM
for the life of me I can't tell if this is a serious thread or not...
Look on the bright side. This is our competition.

JeanneTGC
03-11-2008, 02:22 AM
Look on the bright side. This is our competition.
:roll:

My day is brightened already!

benbradley
03-11-2008, 06:23 AM
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/3/10/iwannapubleesh128496754872968750.jpg

joyce
03-11-2008, 07:24 AM
Oh my this thread has made me laugh. I just can't imagine who would buy this book............Joyce says while eating a big piece of chocolate cake, thinking someone needs to insult her right now.:D

JeanneTGC
03-11-2008, 08:23 AM
Oh my this thread has made me laugh. I just can't imagine who would buy this book............Joyce says while eating a big piece of chocolate cake, thinking someone needs to insult her right now.:D
Your father was a hampster and your mother wears army boots.

(Now, pass over some of that cake!)

mscelina
03-11-2008, 09:31 AM
...umm....

Are you serious? With all of the emotional and sometimes physical abuse 'fat' people already receive in our world? With all of the media messages about 'fat' is 'ugly'? With all of the bullying, the humiliation, the condescension that 'fat' people already receive? Who is your target audience? What message are you trying to give? How in the world can you think of finding an agent--ANY agent--who would soil their hands with adding more hate to a hate-filled world?

Ah, well. Who knows? You may get lucky. *shrug* Perhaps someone will take a chance on it--plenty of prejudicial works have hit the presses before.

johnrobison
03-11-2008, 06:51 PM
I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

"Telling" the publisher these things is not going to get you anywhere. What matters is their reading the book and saying those things themselves. You need a query letter that motivates them to do that.



My other thought is this. Judging by all the drivel that is landing on book store shelves there must be a lot of people in the publishing world that are completely full of shit.


If you express this sentiment with regard to the publishers, how can you expect them to look upon you with favor? If you've already told them they're full of shit, why should they have anything to do with you?

Monkey
03-11-2008, 07:06 PM
I am not sure what will get their interest. I tell them this is a book about the plague of the 21st century. I tell them that 400,000 people die each year because of obesity

If these are people who sell diet or fitness-related nonfiction, then telling them this is pointless; they already know. They are going to skim phrases like these.



and that my book contains the solution to the obesity riddle. I present a weight loss method that has a better chance of working than any of the harebrained schemes represented by charlatans like Dr Phil and late and bloated Robert Atkins.

This boils down to: obesity is a problem, and I have the answer. Again, if they publish diet or fitness-related nonfiction, how often do you think they hear this sort of pitch? They are going to skim over these phrases, too, and keep in mind that if you can't hook them from the first couple of sentences, you've probably missed your chance.



The fact that Atkin's rubbish did not come with a caveat saying this diet advice is dangerous tells me that the publishers of Atkin's trash are unscrupulous money grubbing lowlife rat bastards.

The publishers aren't in the job of conducting research to determine if a book should come with a warning label. (That's part of why they like their authors to be recognized experts in their feilds...safety.)They are in the job of publishing books and making money. This in no way makes them unscrupulous, money-grubbing, or lowlife rat bastards.



The most essential issue is this work is very important and it is of interest to every human being in the United States.

Not necessarily. I don't give a rat's ass if some people are thin and some are fat. People have different genetics, people are free to make their own choices. A book on obesity will not pique my interest in the least...and I'm a human being in the United States. I bet I'm not the only one who feels this way.



The fact that is challenges all the conventional wisdom by using available data sets and innovative research methods should be enough to make them curious as to what else is in it.

Want to get their attention? Start here! Innovative research methods could indeed get attention. Using available data...where did you get it? These references and hands-on research thing-a-majigs are much more interesting than the ol' "Obesity is a killer and it sucks and I can fix it" pitch that they've heard a billion and one times already.



I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

You didn't, really, did you? Never *tell* them this sort of thing. It makes them dismiss you out of hand. Really. It's the mark of an amateur.



Here is what I think the problem could be. This book does not speakin dulcimer tones of and to the obese. Every other book on the subject tells them that it is not their fault. This book tells fat people that obesity is entirely their fault and it does it using their own words and several scientific certainties.

Except that genetics *do* play at least a partial role. Speaking in absolutes won't get you very far with an unbiased audience. This comes across as hateful to your target audience...a very bad thing.



Given the fact that humans are habitually dishonest and vain, <snip> the fact that 67% of Americans are indeed gluttons to one degree or another the odd of not finding someone in the publishing stream who is not a hedonistic and easily offended glutton are slim. People love to be patronized with lies. <snip>Telling someone that their obesity in entirely their fault <snip> that their behavior is killing their kids <snip> that America is the fattest country on earth because its citizenry is a bunch of weak willed gluttons riding a denial train to hell.

Hate, hate, hate. I'm not surprised that this book isn't getting far. It seems to be a lot of hateful opinion based loosely on hand-picked facts rather than objective study.



I was told by several agents that you cannot insult the reader.

Agents actually took the time to give you personal rejections? With helpful advice, no less? That's very generous of them...



I think that is crap.

...and you throw it back in their faces. Niiiiice.



People love to be insulted.

I'm American. I'm insulted just by reading this thread. So maybe I *do* enjoy it...I am here, aren't I? Or maybe I just have some small degree of respect for anyone who writes and would hate to see what potential you have go to naught...



Americans like nothing more than to express their phony moral outrage. For instance, I contend that fat people are immoral gormandizers who love food more than they love their kids because if they cared even a little about their kids they would be good role models and not pass the life threatening illnesses that come with bad dietary habits onto their kids if indeed they really loved them. ,<snip>


Hate, hate, hate.

The respect that is within me is slowly shriveling up and dying. I shall take my leave, after giving this one last piece of advice: STUDY. Learn to write a query.

Soccer Mom
03-11-2008, 08:14 PM
I swore I wouldn't wade back in here, but I'm a big, fat liar. Here is my suggestion for the day...


only query skinny agents.


No need to thank me now. Just send cookies.

PS. For the record, there is a LOLZCAT in the thread and I had NOTHING to do with it. That alone makes this thread unusual.

PattiTheWicked
03-11-2008, 08:34 PM
Gee, I can't imagine why a publisher hasn't snapped this one up.

IceCreamEmpress
03-11-2008, 09:16 PM
No need to thank me now. Just send cookies.

COOKIES?!? HOW DARE YOU!! THE VERY IDEA! Don't you know that every time you eat a cookie you make the baby Jesus cry?

benbradley
03-11-2008, 09:18 PM
I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors.

And this works so well on elementary school playgrounds.
Actually, this can "work" with some adults (as in they actually lose weight, not that there's anything else good about it) if it's not so blatantly called riducule and it's carefully packaged and called something wonderful and strong such as "Tough Love." I also have no doubt it can attract people who would 'try' but be unsuccessful at losing weight and thus unsuccessful at everything the OP is preaching, and it would even push some to suicide.

I suspect OP doesn't have the finesse to pull it off even if he decided to attempt this slightly-more-subtle approach.

Balldez
03-11-2008, 09:51 PM
This will: showing how your book will be profitable for the publisher while fitting within the scope of that publisher's catalog. Nothing else will do it. Writers who want to get their books published make that case and do so effectively.

I believe I can say with absolute confidence that you will not hit that mark, on the basis of what you have posted here.

Try self-publishing. Some informative and useful threads on Absolute Write focus on self-publishing (I have posted many times in those threads). Or approach a vanity press or a subsidy publisher. You might well have a perfect book for PublishAmerica, a widely used vanity press that is unlikely to be troubled by the tone or controversial nature of your book.

Good luck with your endeavors.

--Ken

Publish America is not a reputable company,

It just seems that an agent would have the expertise on what will sell and between them and a publisher could suggest rewrites if needed. It also seems that writing a sales letter is the same a a query. I am not the salesman I am the writer. It is their job to sell. What do they get paid to do? It reminds of some of the sleazy booking agents I deal with when I was playing in clubs. You could not get into these clubs without an agent and if the clubs went with a band from another agency the local K-Rock stations would not sell that club advertising. It sound a bit like extortion.

Why is it that publishers will not accept manuscripts or query letters without an agent? It sound to me like a clever way to screw authors out of money. These people sound no different than the booking agents.

This also reminds me of the resume writing where you puff up your credentials for some anally retentive personnel manager in hopes that he will pass it on to someone who has a clue. I did not write this book in order to baffle people with bullshit. I wrote it because it needed to be written. Personally I don't give a rat's ass that 400,000 people are eating themselves to death each year. While this is a wake up call to them they are so deep into their depravity that they only care about more food and even bigger portions. I stopped being naive and altruistic a long time ago. After studying these eating machines who care more about food than their kids. There is not other book like this. Michael Fumento wrote Fat of the Land and it is simply straight talk about the obesity crisis but the legions of lard in the fatosphere demonized him for even suggesting that obesity might be their fault. I just decided not to pull any punches and simply tell it like it is.

I would get great satisfaction if this book started a trend of personal responsibility but even if I became one of the most hated people in the US I would be very happy. It just seems to me that a book that sticks a finger in the eye of those who would normalize obesity and gluttony would sell very well.

In reality all diet books do is present some dubious theory about carbs, fat or protein. The create a villain they call Carbs and a hero called Fat. They devote less than 100 pages for their theory and absolution of the poor victims of the villain. Then, in order to fill up pages they include yummy recipes that often don't even agree with their half baked theory. The truth is all a person needs to know about diet and nutrition can be written in one or three sentences. 1. Eat low calorie nutrient dense food that a void of toxic chemicals and eat the correct balance of fats, protein and carbohydrates. 2. Keep your calories under 2000 if you are a woman and under 2500 if you are a male. 3. If you follow that advice you cannot get fat.

What has been going on is the diet book publishers are filling the shelves with worthless books on the subject of weigh loss. My book does demonize food. It demonizes gluttons.

Sheryl Nantus
03-11-2008, 09:53 PM
It demonizes gluttons.

:roll:

you're not for real, are you?

seriously?

and how much do YOU weigh?

:ROFL:

Soccer Mom
03-11-2008, 10:07 PM
It just seems that an agent would have the expertise on what will sell and between them and a publisher could suggest rewrites if needed. It also seems that writing a sales letter is the same a a query. I am not the salesman I am the writer. It is their job to sell. What do they get paid to do? You are so clueless that it's almost cute. Almost. Read your first sentence. I put it in bold for you. An agent knows what needs to be done to your ms, which editors will like it, and how to package it. Your query is your pitch to the agent to be your business partner.


*snip* even if I became one of the most hated people in the US I would be very happy. What has been going on is the diet book publishers are filling the shelves with worthless books on the subject of weigh loss. My book does demonize food. It demonizes gluttons.

And that last bit is the crux of the matter. You have a GREAT CAUSE to SAVE THE WORLD. The truth is that publishers don't want to save the world. They want to run a business and to do this, they need to sell books. Your disconnect is that you don't understand the difference. Your job is to convince an agent that someone would be interested in your rantings about fat people.

Eat low calorie nutritious food.

Yeah, no one has ever proposed that before. :ROFL:

IceCreamEmpress
03-11-2008, 10:12 PM
1. Eat low calorie nutrient dense food that a void of toxic chemicals and eat the correct balance of fats, protein and carbohydrates.

Hey, guess what? Michael Pollan's new book In Defense of Food says this exact thing, and it's a huge best-seller. And, as I said above, he's a journalist, not a scientist or doctor.

So your book really didn't "need to be written" after all. You can move on to something else. The information about how to eat healthily is already out there.

Of course, it was already out there in, for instance, Eating Well for Optimum Health by Dr. Andrew Weil, and in Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy by Walter Willett, and lots of other books, but whatever.

Soccer Mom
03-11-2008, 10:15 PM
Here's another one that says the same thing, from the Harvard Medical School (http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Drink-Be-Healthy-Harvard/dp/B0001H09YY/ref=pd_bbs_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205258994&sr=8-10), by Dr. W.C. Willard.

Oh, and it was published seven years ago.

aka eraser
03-11-2008, 10:15 PM
Publishers (and their gatekeepers - agents) aren't fond at all of works categorized as "unique." Loosely translated, it means "nobody'll buy it."

I rarely recommend self-pubbing but I think that's where your research should take you now.

underthecity
03-11-2008, 10:17 PM
Balldez,

I'm not going to comment too much on this. Everything that needs to be said has been said very well.

I am wondering, though, how many overweight people have read your manuscript, used it, and found success with it? What sorts of feedback have you gotten from having beta readers read it?

Why don't you share you query letter in the Share Your Work forum here at AW? At least have some of us have a look at it.

allen

Bubastes
03-11-2008, 10:17 PM
Hey, guess what? Michael Pollan's new book In Defense of Food says this exact thing, and it's a huge best-seller. And, as I said above, he's a journalist, not a scientist or doctor.


Yes. Michael Pollan actually sums up his book beautifully this way: Eat good food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

IceCreamEmpress
03-11-2008, 10:19 PM
Here's another one that says the same thing, from the Harvard Medical School (http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Drink-Be-Healthy-Harvard/dp/B0001H09YY/ref=pd_bbs_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205258994&sr=8-10)

Yep, Willett's book was a huge best-seller also.


Again, where's the new information? Baldez, what's your "unique selling proposition," as they say in business school? Your being really angry is not a unique selling proposition, nor is your rehashing the same information about healthy eating and exercise that gets published every single year. What are you bringing to the table that would make someone want to buy your book?

Julie Worth
03-11-2008, 10:19 PM
I contend that fat people are immoral gormandizers who love food more than they love their kids...

What you need is a snappy title. Something like, The Eat Your Kids Diet.

BenPanced
03-11-2008, 10:26 PM
<snip!>

Why is it that publishers will not accept manuscripts or query letters without an agent? It sound to me like a clever way to screw authors out of money.
No, it's so that publishers aren't bothered by people like you. They have enough crossing their desks on any given day, and one more person self-trumpeting the greatness of their own wonder and the wonder of their own greatness is just going to get lost.


1. Eat low calorie nutrient dense food that a void of toxic chemicals and eat the correct balance of fats, protein and carbohydrates. 2. Keep your calories under 2000 if you are a woman and under 2500 if you are a male. 3. If you follow that advice you cannot get fat.
And I won't have to waste hard money getting diet advice and paying to be insulted when I can get it here for free.

Sunnyside
03-11-2008, 10:33 PM
Okay, now, just STOP.

Here's what you do, Balldez. You need an agent. So write a dynamite query letter. You've already got the book written, so you've got a good knowledge of its strengths. Given that, you should be able to neatly summarize your particular methodology with a spectacular hook. ("Playground bullies had it right: fat ain't beautiful, and it's also unhealthier than you think.") From there, describe -- quickly -- your methodology, and why you're the fellow to write this book. Be honest, and be aggressive, but don't be confrontational, or it's the circular pile for you.

If you manage to land an agent, he or she will have a good feel for which publisher might be right for you. He may also have suggestions on how you can improve your manuscript to make it more marketable. (You agent doesn't get paid until you do, so he's got absolutely no interest in producing an unmarketable book. So listen closely to what he says.) And then he'll take your completed and polished manuscript and try to find a home for it. (If your book is as hard-hitting, as interesting, and as life-altering as you say it is, then you should be able to land a publisher somewhere.) And he'll do it because that's his job.

That's it. Whether you like the rules of the game or not is beside the point -- it's the rules you play by. And while the rules are relatively simple, it's still the toughest thing you'll ever do, because it's a game of endurance.

There is no great conspiracy out there to kibosh you or your desire to be unconventional. Really. But publishers do want books that sell.

Julie Worth
03-11-2008, 10:38 PM
So write a dynamite query letter.

Nope. No matter how good the query letter is, it won't fly without a platform.

Sheryl Nantus
03-11-2008, 10:44 PM
and that's the problem - when your platform is "fat people eat too much and are idiots!" it's sort of hard to get past that. Especially when it seems like nothing more than a rant against overweight people - been done to death.

I'm 240 pounds. Wish I were less. Eating properly now but it's hard to undo years of bad eating decisions. Am I going to pick up a book that calls me names and tells me that I'm an idiot and a glutton?

Nope.

No sale.

Sunnyside
03-11-2008, 10:50 PM
"Nope. No matter how good the query letter is, it won't fly without a platform."

Agreed. But Balldez is working under the assumption that it is a viable platform, so rather than argue, I'm pointing him toward the right pipe. His venting that the pipe is inherently rigged is unproductive and just plain dumb.

So use that system, Balldez. Prove us all wrong when we say that your book isn't marketable by going out there and selling it -- but do it by using the methods we've all got to use, rather than insisting that you're right and we're wrong, "because the Man just doesn't get it."

IceCreamEmpress
03-11-2008, 10:53 PM
Nope. No matter how good the query letter is, it won't fly without a platform.

Yes. However, the platform doesn't have to be credentials--health/nutrition books by first-time non-specialist authors have done well, when they've brought something new and different to the market (the French Women Don't Get Fat series, for instance).

JeanneTGC
03-11-2008, 11:01 PM
Personally I don't give a rat's ass that 400,000 people are eating themselves to death each year. While this is a wake up call to them they are so deep into their depravity that they only care about more food and even bigger portions. I stopped being naive and altruistic a long time ago. After studying these eating machines who care more about food than their kids. There is not other book like this. Michael Fumento wrote Fat of the Land and it is simply straight talk about the obesity crisis but the legions of lard in the fatosphere demonized him for even suggesting that obesity might be their fault. I just decided not to pull any punches and simply tell it like it is.
And this, more than anything else, is the crux of your problem. You don't care at all about your subjects. Ergo, you are writing a hate-filled screed, not a self-help book.

While there may be a market for hate-filled screeds, it's probably small and large, legitimate publishers aren't interested in it, because if it's small, it won't pay well.

Rant and rage about the unfairness all you want -- hatemongers get their comeuppance. Yours is apparently coming early.

benbradley
03-11-2008, 11:21 PM
Publish America is not a reputable company,
I think Mr. Research Guy is aware of PublishAmerica's reputation, and his reason for suggesting it was, well... there's a word for it, but I don't want to say it. And I'd hate to say he was disrespecting his fellow writer, since he's always good and helpful. Anyway...

...
My book does demonize food. It demonizes gluttons.
I think you dropped a NOT in that first sentence, but whatever...

Gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins (I had heard of these, but didn't learn all of them then until I read them in the 12&12 in my "recovery from alcoholism," but that's a separate rant), and since you're so against gluttony, perhaps this book might be suitable for a religious or new-age/recovery type publisher: try Thomas Nelson, Tyndale, Hazelden, Health Communications and such.

And DO post your query letter in SYW and follow others' suggestions for it, it can only help, and you don't want to blow your chances with these publishers.

Julie Worth
03-11-2008, 11:31 PM
Yes. However, the platform doesn't have to be credentials--health/nutrition books by first-time non-specialist authors have done well, when they've brought something new and different to the market (the French Women Don't Get Fat series, for instance).

Right. In this case, the author is the CEO of Veuve Clicquot.

Balldez
03-11-2008, 11:47 PM
:roll:

you're not for real, are you?

seriously?

and how much do YOU weigh?

:ROFL:

I am for real. Perhaps I should have said that I demonize gluttony and that makes gluttons feel like victims. My premise is simple. Gluttony is the cause of obesity. Gluttony is the reason there is an abundance of junk food and not the other way around.

As to my weight, it is perfect.

Sheryl Nantus
03-11-2008, 11:51 PM
As to my weight, it is perfect.

using what scale?

and if you're "perfect", well...

[insert joke here]

:D

Birol
03-11-2008, 11:53 PM
Oh, I don't feel a victim. It's easy not to feel victimized when an individual so readily displays their ignorance of fact and their own prejudices.

Sheryl Nantus
03-11-2008, 11:53 PM
And this, more than anything else, is the crux of your problem. You don't care at all about your subjects. Ergo, you are writing a hate-filled screed, not a self-help book.

and there's the problem - anyone can scream at an overweight person and call them names.

heck, kids are the worst.

but writing a book about it is rather... boring, to say the least.

and stating the obvious is even worse.

again, if I'm your audience then you're not getting my money - and that's the bottom line of a pitch to an agent or a publisher - who's your audience? And how are you going to appeal to them to pick up YOUR book over anything else on the shelf?

IceCreamEmpress
03-11-2008, 11:56 PM
My premise is simple. Gluttony is the cause of obesity. Gluttony is the reason there is an abundance of junk food and not the other way around.

Okay, that's your premise.

Now, what's your unique selling proposition? What would make someone want to buy your book? What new information are you offering?


Right. In this case, the author is the CEO of Veuve Clicquot.

Mireille Guiliano was the head of Clicquot USA, which is the US marketing arm of Veuve Clicquot, not of the winemaker itself.

But, yeah, being a high-profile marketing executive for one of the world's top luxury brands is an awesome platform right there. I'm guessing that Balldez doesn't have that kind of market clout to offer.

On the other hand, a lot of people have done very well with their first-person accounts of exercise and weight management, even if they don't have lives as glamorous as Ms. Guiliano's.

Bubastes
03-12-2008, 12:00 AM
OK, back to business:

1. What do you hope to accomplish with this book? You need to be clear about your goals before determining what to do next. Do you want to reach a large audience or a niche audience? Do you hope to make lots of money off of it? Do you foresee the book as a launching pad for other projects? All of these things are worth thinking about.

2. Once you've decided what you want this book to do, then it's time to figure out whether you want to self-publish or go the commercial publisher route. That will also help determine whether you want to go through the agent search.

3. Have you written a book proposal? That might help show agents and/or publishers that you've done your homework and checked the market, including reading books that would compete with yours. This will also help clarify what makes your book unique and why people should buy YOUR book and not someone else's.

4. I'd recommend posting a few paragraphs or your query letter on Share Your Work. You may be too close to your work to see why people aren't picking it up. An objective set of eyes (or several) can help give your work the polish it may need. Poor writing obscures the message you're trying to send.

You can't get away from the selling aspect of writing. Whether it's selling to agents, publishers, or directly to readers, you're going to have to sell to get people to buy and read your book. If you think selling is beneath you, then toss the book in a drawer and just write for yourself. No one is going to care unless you explain why they should care in your sales pitch.

Balldez
03-12-2008, 12:04 AM
I think Mr. Research Guy is aware of PublishAmerica's reputation, and his reason for suggesting it was, well... there's a word for it, but I don't want to say it. And I'd hate to say he was disrespecting his fellow writer, since he's always good and helpful. Anyway...

I think you dropped a NOT in that first sentence, but whatever...

Gluttony is one of the Seven Deadly Sins (I had heard of these, but didn't learn all of them then until I read them in the 12&12 in my "recovery from alcoholism," but that's a separate rant), and since you're so against gluttony, perhaps this book might be suitable for a religious or new-age/recovery type publisher: try Thomas Nelson, Tyndale, Hazelden, Health Communications and such.

And DO post your query letter in SYW and follow others' suggestions for it, it can only help, and you don't want to blow your chances with these publishers.

I figure if an agent is unwilling of too busy to read even chapter I do not want them representing me.

I cannot say if glutton is a sin but the absolute fattest people are fundagelical Christians I think they tend to pick and choose. I can also tell you that red states are considerably fatter than blue states. When it comes to religiosity the more religious a person is the fatter they usually are.

Several celebrities like Marilou Henner and Suzzane Sommers have gotten diet books published and as horrible as these books are that are better that the ones written by doctors.

I was thinking of starting a thread about queries where everyone write a query and we evaluate it. In my queries I have accurately represented the book without a lot of fluff. Like I said before I am the writer not the seller. If I produce a quality product that has value then it is up to the agent to sell it. The only real way for them to know if the work has value and commercial potential is if they read it.

As to the fat people who think I have offended them, I am not the offensive one. If you want to get unfat send me a PM and I will explain how or start a thread for all to see.

Bubastes
03-12-2008, 12:05 AM
Also, have you also considered writing some magazine articles based on the premise of your book? Having a published article or two can pique interest in your topic and start building your platform. Plus, it's a great way to get your message out there sooner before your book actually comes out.

Bubastes
03-12-2008, 12:08 AM
I was thinking of starting a thread about queries where everyone write a query and we evaluate it.

We have that already. It's called Share Your Work.

ResearchGuy
03-12-2008, 12:11 AM
I think Mr. Research Guy is aware of PublishAmerica's reputation, and his reason for suggesting it was, well... there's a word for it, but I don't want to say it. . . .
A wry sense of humor. Well, that is a phrase, not a word. It was a way of making a point indirectly. Get my drift?

Anyway, it is not as though I tried to hide what PA is: a vanity press.

Ken

IceCreamEmpress
03-12-2008, 12:15 AM
I figure if an agent is unwilling of too busy to read even chapter I do not want them representing me.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Look, did you come here for help? If what you're doing now is working for you, then keep on keeping on. If you would like to know how to publish a book, why not listen to the advice of people here? Many of us have published books.

If you don't want to take our word for it, let me recommend a book to you: The Shortest Distance Between You and a Published Book, by Susan Page. Although it's a bit dated when it comes to self-publishing options, the rest of the book stands strong; if you decide to go the self-publishing route, there are some good books on that topic out there, too.

Siddow
03-12-2008, 12:17 AM
I figure if an agent is unwilling of too busy to read even chapter I do not want them representing me.

:roll:

I cannot say if glutton is a sin but the absolute fattest people are fundagelical Christians I think they tend to pick and choose. I can also tell you that red states are considerably fatter than blue states. When it comes to religiosity the more religious a person is the fatter they usually are.

:roll:

<snip>

As to the fat people who think I have offended them, I am not the offensive one. If you want to get unfat send me a PM and I will explain how or start a thread for all to see.

:hooray::hooray::hooray:

Please do. Go ahead and start it in TIO, save the mods some trouble.

IceCreamEmpress
03-12-2008, 12:21 AM
Please do. Go ahead and start it in TIO, save the mods some trouble.

He's got this ground-breaking new idea: eat healthier, exercise more. It'll revolutionize the publishing industry! AND IT'S SO CRAZY IT JUST MIGHT WORK!

Soccer Mom
03-12-2008, 12:21 AM
I figure if an agent is unwilling of too busy to read even chapter I do not want them representing me.

Agents who aren't busy are that way for a reason. You don't want one.

I cannot say if glutton is a sin but the absolute fattest people are fundagelical Christians I think they tend to pick and choose. I can also tell you that red states are considerably fatter than blue states. When it comes to religiosity the more religious a person is the fatter they usually are.

And now we've slid right past STOP on the offense-o-meter.

Several celebrities like Marilou Henner and Suzzane Sommers have gotten diet books published and as horrible as these books are that are better and this is what editors are for that the ones written by doctors.

I was thinking of starting a thread about queries where everyone write a query and we evaluate it. If you would actually look around the site instead of just :Soapbox: you would check out the Share Your Work forum that people have repeatedly tried to recommend to you, you would see that there is an entire forum where we critique one another's query letters. I regret to inform you, however, that there is no maximum weight limit and the fatties get in there too. Sorry.

As to the fat people who think I have offended them, I am not the offensive one. Yes, my friend. You are.


Honestly, I'm not really sure what you're here for? You seem to have all the answers. What do your perfect book and query need us for? Go make a million bucks.

Sheryl Nantus
03-12-2008, 12:23 AM
:hooray::hooray::hooray:

Please do. Go ahead and start it in TIO, save the mods some trouble.

oh, I'd love to see that thread.

and I'll pass on the PM - it'll be nothing that I haven't heard before.

which, again, is the problem - if your platform consists of insulting and just berating people for their weight (which, to be fair, may actually NOT be all about eating too many calories) then there's nothing there a publisher would be interested in.

sounds like you're one of those rehab types - lost weight and now wants to save the world - by hating those with which you once had something in common with.

along the same lines of anti-smokers being the worst and hardest on smokers...

btw, Very Lapsed Catholic and Canadian. Guess I just blew your platform as well...

:ROFL:

Monkey
03-12-2008, 12:26 AM
It just seems that an agent would have the expertise on what will sell and between them and a publisher could suggest rewrites if needed.

Bingo! A worthy and needed job. Hence, not some sort of extortion. Now, they couldn't possibly take on every ms that crossed their desks...they just take on the ones that they feel they can get into a publishing house.

That's why you have to "sell" them on your book.

It's a pretty good system, really.



Why is it that publishers will not accept manuscripts or query letters without an agent?

Because agents are their first and best protection against thousands of slush manuscripts.



I did not write this book in order to baffle people with bullshit.

Really?



Personally I don't give a rat's ass that 400,000 people are eating themselves to death each year.

Then you probably aren't the best person to write a book on the subject.



<snip>they are so deep into their depravity that they only care about more food and even bigger portions. <snip> these eating machines who care more about food than their kids.

Hate, hate, hate, again. Wow. A veritable smorgasbord of hate, all coming from one poster on one topic on one thread.


1. Eat low calorie nutrient dense food that a void of toxic chemicals and eat the correct balance of fats, protein and carbohydrates. 2. Keep your calories under 2000 if you are a woman and under 2500 if you are a male. 3. If you follow that advice you cannot get fat.

Unless you have a thyroid issue or something...

This also isn't as easy as it sounds. "low calorie nutrient dense foods that are void of toxins" are very hard to find, and are sometimes hard to identify when you do find them.

"The correct balance" of fats, proteins, and carbs are different for people of different ages, sizes, and activity levels. I can't tell you any numbers pertaining to what my "correct balance" of these nutrients would be.

Home cooking is best (especially if you're trying to eat low calorie nutrient rich foods devoid of chemicals in the perfect balance for your lifestyle and metabolism)...but determining your caloric intake when you're cooking from scratch is not exactly simple.

There's a reason why there's so many books on this issue.




My book does demonize food. It demonizes gluttons.

Oh, cause that'll fix everything. :Shrug:

You've been given really good advice on this thread, and people have been amazingly kind. I hope you don't continue this trend of "a little hate in each post".

And actually, you are completely ignoring the OTHER side of this issue: underweight individuals.

Does it not bother you that there is a huge problem with anorexia and bullemia thanks to our society that demonizes fat? Your book is hardly the only source of that demonization...in fact, it's a late drop in a full bucket.

Personally, I struggle with being underweight. I eat like a freakin' horse, am 5'1, and weigh right at (sometimes under sometimes over) 100 pounds. I don't know for sure exactly why I have this problem, but I know that some of it is genetics. It has caused me problems, including trouble conceiving.

So I have an "weight problem" that diet alone cannot fix. I've known others (yes, such as a lady with thyroid issues) that were overweight and whose "weight problem" could not be fixed entirely by diet (she'd die of starvation before she'd get thin).

I think your book is having a hard time getting published because it's an already-done hate-filled diatribe rather than anything genuinely meant to help.

Balldez
03-12-2008, 12:28 AM
OK, back to business:

1. What do you hope to accomplish with this book? You need to be clear about your goals before determining what to do next. Do you want to reach a large audience or a niche audience? Do you hope to make lots of money off of it? Do you foresee the book as a launching pad for other projects? All of these things are worth thinking about.

2. Once you've decided what you want this book to do, then it's time to figure out whether you want to self-publish or go the commercial publisher route. That will also help determine whether you want to go through the agent search.

3. Have you written a book proposal? That might help show agents and/or publishers that you've done your homework and checked the market, including reading books that would compete with yours. This will also help clarify what makes your book unique and why people should buy YOUR book and not someone else's.

4. I'd recommend posting a few paragraphs or your query letter on Share Your Work. You may be too close to your work to see why people aren't picking it up. An objective set of eyes (or several) can help give your work the polish it may need. Poor writing obscures the message you're trying to send.

You can't get away from the selling aspect of writing. Whether it's selling to agents, publishers, or directly to readers, you're going to have to sell to get people to buy and read your book. If you think selling is beneath you, then toss the book in a drawer and just write for yourself. No one is going to care unless you explain why they should care in your sales pitch.

1.This book has a wide audience. 67% of Americans are fat and 400,000 die each year because of it. This is akin to a stop smoking book. It tells people how to stop killing themselves with food. It also appeals to the lean spouse who is sick and tired of being with a fat person.

2. I may end up self publishing on the internet. That way I can include animations and music as I have written songs about obesity. The reason I a going this route is because I only want to wear one hat. I do not want to be a web designer or a graphic artist and I need the guidance of someone in the business.

3. As part of my research I read many diet books and they are all so bad that the only thing I need to compete is better cover art and hype. I have explained why this is unique and commercially viable. I have referred to it a cure for gluttony, a cure for the plague of the 21st Century, not just a diet book and the final word on the obesity crisis.

4. That sounds like a good idea. I am going to consult with my brother who writes radio advertising. I really think I know how to present a product for sale and I used to write sales letters for several companies and they were always effective. I think that I may lack a complete understanding as to what exactly agents do. From what I gather they seem like a bit like pimps who get solicited by whores to sell their services but in reality the whore solicits her own business and the pimp gets paid for pretending to be needed.

They probably are all different but I get the impression they are in the catbird seat.

Sheryl Nantus
03-12-2008, 12:30 AM
Obesity: The Musical!

:D

Siddow
03-12-2008, 12:31 AM
::raises hand, admits to be DYING to hear the songs about obesity::

Monkey
03-12-2008, 12:35 AM
That way I can include animations and music as I have written songs about obesity.

Animations and songs about something you obviously have such an intense hatred for...

(pick your ending to this sentence)

1. couldn't help but be amusing, in a sick kind of way.

2. probably rate very, very high on the Offense-O-Meter.

3. is, like, spending waaay too much time on negativity, man...

4. All of the above


:roll:

Birol
03-12-2008, 12:38 AM
Gang, it's fairly obvious that this member did not come here to participate in the community. Let's look at facts.

1. Although he's written a manuscript, he's never published a book. Yet he wants to explain to everyone here how publishing should be approached. He's willing to forgo expert opinion in order to make it happen his way.

2. Although he professes to not have any difficulty managing his weight, he wants to be the next weight-loss guru. Again, he lacks personal experience and is willing to forgo expert opinions in order to make it happen his way.

3. Anyone who disagrees with him is either a "victim" who prefers to be a "victim" rather than a positive agent for change in society or else they are ignorant and unwilling to see his particular brand of reason.

4. Only his solutions hold any weight. (Pardon the pun.) For example, he's willing to start a thread about query letters, where people can post theirs and get help with them. This ignores the fact that AW has an entire subforum devoted to just that. Obviously, since it did not originate with him, it is without value. Again, this is an individual who has never published, who's query letter has yet to succeed, yet he is willing to educate individuals who have had quite a degree of success in that area.

All evidence points to the fact that this is an individual who must build up his own self-worth by tearing others down. Is this really someone you want to spend your valuable time and expertise helping? Personally, I believe AW's invaluable resources are best spent elsewhere.

Sheryl Nantus
03-12-2008, 12:39 AM
it does have a rather high "ick" factor, doesn't it?

*starts humming*

quick, get the bongos! I love the bongos!

underthecity
03-12-2008, 12:44 AM
3. As part of my research I read many diet books and they are all so bad that the only thing I need to compete is better cover art and hype. I have explained why this is unique and commercially viable. I have referred to it a cure for gluttony, a cure for the plague of the 21st Century, not just a diet book and the final word on the obesity crisis.

You didnt answer the question whether or not you wrote an Book Proposal. A book proposal isn't just an abstract concept. It's a several-page report on your proposed title. They have definite formats you must follow.



4. . . . I think that I may lack a complete understanding as to what exactly agents do. From what I gather they seem like a bit like pimps who get solicited by whores to sell their services but in reality the whore solicits her own business and the pimp gets paid for pretending to be needed.

They probably are all different but I get the impression they are in the catbird seat.


<cough> <cough> <cough> Balldez, I think you need to do some research.

allen

IceCreamEmpress
03-12-2008, 12:45 AM
All evidence points to the fact that this is an individual who must build up his own self-worth by tearing others down. Is this really someone you want to spend your valuable time and expertise helping?

Makes an interesting pinata, though.

I've offered the useful advice already--I'm just enjoying the fireworks now.

CasualObserver
03-12-2008, 12:45 AM
Pimps and whores and musicals, oh my!

I see a flaw in your platform. There's an assumption that if you mock and berate a person long enough, they will grasp the error in their ways and make efforts to reform into an intelligent human being. I suspect this method may go over the occasional subject's head.

Sheryl Nantus
03-12-2008, 12:48 AM
everyone dance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipZDG6__Zfc&feature=related

:D

BenPanced
03-12-2008, 12:50 AM
it does have a rather high "ick" factor, doesn't it?

*starts humming*

quick, get the bongos! I love the bongos!
We can make our own from our empty butter tubs, lard containers, and ice cream boxes!

*birp!*

CasualObserver
03-12-2008, 12:55 AM
Ur jus jelus. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdCEACX5fuw)

Sheryl Nantus
03-12-2008, 12:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXeU2B6AwDg&feature=related

:D

mscelina
03-12-2008, 12:58 AM
Sorry guys. I just HAD to do it.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i293/isabelle_spurrier/skeeny.jpg

CasualObserver
03-12-2008, 01:01 AM
For the win!

Birol
03-12-2008, 01:04 AM
Obesity: The Musical!

:D

:ROFL:


Unless you have a thyroid issue or something...

This also isn't as easy as it sounds. "low calorie nutrient dense foods that are void of toxins" are very hard to find, and are sometimes hard to identify when you do find them.

"The correct balance" of fats, proteins, and carbs are different for people of different ages, sizes, and activity levels. I can't tell you any numbers pertaining to what my "correct balance" of these nutrients would be.

I've been noticing that our In-House Weight-Loss Guru is ignoring basics facts, as well. No two people are alike. Go ahead. Go step out in the street or into the nearest store. Unless you identify a pair of identical twins, each and every person is going to be unique. Not just their hair, eye, and skin color, but also their height and weight. Their metabolism, how and where they carry fat and muscle, all of these things vary from individual to individual, from body type to body type.

The ideal calories for a woman being 2000 or less and a man being 2500 or less was debunked long ago. There are many factors that affect one's ideal caloric consumption and the balance between carbs, proteins, fruits, and vegetables within that caloric intake. Even for one individual, that balance can shift and vary from time-to-time. I've reached a point where I have to eat more if I want to lose weight. It's a weird juxtaposition, but I've achieved activity levels that call for more calories. If the body does not get what it needs, it goes into starvation mode and begins hoarding what it does receive, which results in weight gain instead of weight loss. However, if I have a week where I'm unable to get to the dojo, I have to shift the balance. It can be very difficult to stay on top of.


Home cooking is best (especially if you're trying to eat low calorie nutrient rich foods devoid of chemicals in the perfect balance for your lifestyle and metabolism)...but determining your caloric intake when you're cooking from scratch is not exactly simple.

Ah, but the rub is that lifestyle does not always allow for homecooking. As with all things, it's about finding balance.



You've been given really good advice on this thread, and people have been amazingly kind. I hope you don't continue this trend of "a little hate in each post".

Of course he is. It's how he gets the attention he so desperately craves.


And actually, you are completely ignoring the OTHER side of this issue: underweight individuals.

Does it not bother you that there is a huge problem with anorexia and bullemia thanks to our society that demonizes fat? Your book is hardly the only source of that demonization...in fact, it's a late drop in a full bucket.

Well, no. It probably doesn't bother him. Those who struggle with being underweight aren't adding to the "obesity epidemic" that he is single-handedly trying to eradicate. And anorexics already understand that fat is a demon. [/snark]


I think your book is having a hard time getting published because it's an already-done hate-filled diatribe rather than anything genuinely meant to help.

Ah, but you see, he doesn't want to hear this, therefore it can't be true. What must instead be true is that you are a victim who prefers to be a victim, who doesn't want to address that the problem with the easy fix that he offers. [/snark]

mscelina
03-12-2008, 01:06 AM
dang, Lori. *grin* I see you're feeling better.

It's always so easy to fix other people's problems. It's even easier if, in the process, you ignore your own. Just sayin'...

Birol
03-12-2008, 01:09 AM
Who me? :2angel: I'm innocent, I tell you. Innocent.

mscelina
03-12-2008, 01:12 AM
yeah. me too. wanna brownie? we're having a gluttony party in fang relief. *grin*

Soccer Mom
03-12-2008, 01:19 AM
Does this mean we should leave the pinata alone?

Oh, all right.

I can't believe I held out this long.

Here ya go...


http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/3/10/hahshowzu128496888974717212.jpg

mscelina
03-12-2008, 01:21 AM
mwahahaha.

Hey! Were there Skittles in that pinata? Bring it to fang relief. I was going to hang up Esopha but she's squeamish about it.

cpickett
03-12-2008, 01:22 AM
Wow! I'm relatively new to the forum, so this has been something.

I'm going to jump in with a brief note for what it's worth.

No matter which publishing method you choose, you'll have to wear the hats of business and marketing, this includes the traditional method too. It would be nice to just get to write, but apart from a few celebs, that just isn't reality.

If you want to go the route of self-publishing via a digital product, it can be done and it is a valid option to consider. Some say it's better than print especially for non-fiction. Plenty of people make good money with a completely digital platform. Research internet and ebook marketing and you'll find plenty of information.

Lastly, the great thing about publishing in 2008 is that if you want to publish something, there are several choices as to how to go about it. You can wait for someone to give you permission or you can put your money (time, effort) where your mouth is and get it done. Ultimately, the marketplace will determine whether they want to buy or hear what you have to say.

mscelina
03-12-2008, 01:24 AM
excellent post for a newbie. here, have a rep point and welcome aboard!

Bubastes
03-12-2008, 01:25 AM
Time to lock the thread?

mscelina
03-12-2008, 01:25 AM
Probably. It was fun while it lasted.

Soccer Mom
03-12-2008, 01:26 AM
And here's a little dedication to all mah peeps out there in the fatosphere!


http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/funny-pictures-bird-mouth-belly.jpg

JeanneTGC
03-12-2008, 01:27 AM
Obesity: The Musical!

:D
I'm telling you, I have an entire song done for Randy Newman's "Short People"...entitled "Fat People"

I'm sure I can come up with others...

"To Fatty, With Love"
"Fatty/Back"
"My Humps"
"Hit Me With a Pork Chop, Baby, One More Time..."
"Keepin' it Fat"
"The Good, the Fat, and The Obese"
"Fat is a Many Splendored Thing"
"Fatty Ice" (love this chorus...Fat, fat, baby...we're gettin' fat, fat, baby...)
"Whose Obese Now?"
"This Fat Was Made for Waddlin' "
"Sympathy for the Fatty"

The list goes on and on...I think we can come up with enough to put on QUITE the extravaganza!

Esopha
03-12-2008, 01:34 AM
mwahahaha.

Hey! Were there Skittles in that pinata? Bring it to fang relief. I was going to hang up Esopha but she's squeamish about it.

The last time we tried that I bruised a tentacle.

I'm posting just so I can say I was here. :D

Carry on.

Soccer Mom
03-12-2008, 01:56 AM
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/3/8/dontjudgeme128494883278281250.jpg

JeanneTGC
03-12-2008, 02:00 AM
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/3/8/dontjudgeme128494883278281250.jpg
Kill it! Taunt it! It's its own fault it's Glutton Doggie! Call it names and make it write bad checks!

Monkey
03-12-2008, 02:38 AM
I have a video on my computer of Weird Al doing his version of Michael Jackson's "Bad"...it's called "Fat".

"Oh, I'm fat, I'm fat, ya know it, cha'mon"
(backup singers)
"really really fat..."

Something tells me that Balldez's version wouldn't be quite as...elegant. :)

(/pinata bashing)

Prevostprincess
03-12-2008, 03:17 AM
As a physician (a psychiatrist who has specialized in eating disorders) I read this thread with... amusement. My professional opinion: I'm prescribing this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41APzy5kqBU).

(If Sir Mixalot hadn't already been knighted, this Queen would have gladly done it for this timeless indictment of our weight-obsessed culture.)

ColoradoGuy
03-12-2008, 04:21 AM
Caloric intake > calories consumed . . . . weight gain
Caloric intake = calories consumed . . . . stable weight
Caloric intake < calories consumed . . . . weight loss

BRILLIANT!! ALERT THE MEDIA!!

caromora
03-12-2008, 04:42 AM
*whistles*

http://the-f-word.org/blog/
http://www.bigfatfacts.com/

benbradley
03-12-2008, 07:43 AM
:hooray::hooray::hooray:

Please do. Go ahead and start it in TIO, save the mods some trouble.
Why not just tack it on here, and save the mods ALL the trouble:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82261

::raises hand, admits to be DYING to hear the songs about obesity::
Filmed on the actual video set of Michael Jackson's "Bad:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw00EUh0GT4

Okay, there's some other youtube links I haven't seen yet. Hitting Submit Reply before it's locked...

Soccer Mom
03-12-2008, 07:51 AM
Shall I ready the Landfill?

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/3/3/incomiiing128490363022500000.jpg

benbradley
03-12-2008, 07:52 AM
And just for old-time's sake:
(PG, fairly child-safe version with "private parts" fuzzed out)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwdGq2wH6Xk

BenPanced
03-12-2008, 08:18 AM
Who's up for pizza before the thread gets locked? I gotta coupon!

benbradley
03-12-2008, 08:22 AM
Who's up for pizza before the thread gets locked? I gotta coupon!

I'm in!

Balldez
03-12-2008, 08:57 AM
::raises hand, admits to be DYING to hear the songs about obesity::

You asked for it.

********************* I'm Fat*****************************

I'm fat and I'll tell you what.
My arms are too short for wiping my butt.

I'm fat and a blind man can tell
By the sounds that I make and the terrible smell.

Calories? Less than 1000 a day
And if I ate any less I'd be fat anyway.

I'm fat but it ain't my fault.
I retain water cause I'm allergic to salt.

I'm fat with an ass like two moons.
I don't swim in the ocean cause I'm sacred of harpoons.

I'm fat and I think its great.
But I got a slow metabolic rate

Now I ride in motorized seat.
My diabetes got bad so they cut of my feet.

I'm fat and I'm in a bad mood.
Tell that skinny bitch waitress to bring me my food.

************************************************** *******

Glutton (sung to the tune Mother)

G is for the Giant portions you eat.
L is for the Lust you have for food.
U is for you Under belly fat folds
The T's are for the teeth that help you chew
O is for your Over eating nature
N is for the Nastiness of you
Put is all together is spells GLUTTON. You great big nasty stinky tub of goo.

Now let's see some good old fashioned phony moral outrage.

JJ Cooper
03-12-2008, 09:02 AM
You asked for it.

********************* I'm Fat*****************************

I'm fat and I'll tell you what.
My arms are too short for wiping my butt.

I'm fat and a blind man can tell
By the sounds that I make and the terrible smell.

Calories? Less than 1000 a day
And if I ate any less I'd be fat anyway.

I'm fat but it ain't my fault.
I retain water cause I'm allergic to salt.

I'm fat with an ass like two moons.
I don't swim in the ocean cause I'm sacred of harpoons.

I'm fat and I think its great.
But I got a slow metabolic rate

Now I ride in motorized seat.
My diabetes got bad so they cut of my feet.

I'm fat and I'm in a bad mood.
Tell that skinny bitch waitress to bring me my food.

************************************************** *******

Glutton (sung to the tune Mother)

G is for the Giant portions you eat.
L is for the Lust you have for food.
U is for you Under belly fat folds
The T's are for the teeth that help you chew
O is for your Over eating nature
N is for the Nastiness of you
Put is all together is spells GLUTTON. You great big nasty stinky tub of goo.

Now let's see some good old fashioned phony moral outrage.

Do your arms shrink when you become overweight?

JJ

Birol
03-12-2008, 09:28 AM
*raises hand* I have questions.

1. Why does Balldez assume that moral outrage must be phony?

2. Why does Balldez not respond to posters who are attempting to discuss his ideas in a logical and reasoned manner? Why does he use emotion as the basis of his responses while accusing others of doing the exact same thing in a way that suggests emotional responses are a bad thing? Is he the only one permitted to use emotion in discussion?

Balldez
03-12-2008, 09:50 AM
Caloric intake > calories consumed . . . . weight gain
Caloric intake = calories consumed . . . . stable weight
Caloric intake < calories consumed . . . . weight loss

BRILLIANT!! ALERT THE MEDIA!!

Fat people can't grasp that concept. They all have "slow" metabolism or they retain water or the have syndrome X or they have and eating disorder or they magically defy the laws of thermodynamics until they get tested with a calorimeter.

The point of my book is that fat people are unabashed gluttons and so I bash them.

Next time you hear some fat person whining because the "can't" lose weight just ask then why they suppose the can't keep their calories under 2000 everyday for the rest of their lives. Their answers will amaze and astound.

The question remains, how do you deal with a liar who is eating himself into a super sized early grave? You may want to remind them of the consequences of their behavior. You may want to tell them that nobody ever died from hunger pangs and that pass in a few minutes.

If the start whining show them this.

http://www.plowsunlimited.com/images/lawn/gunny.jpg
You don't need another sandwich Lardass.

Or you can show them this.
http://www.baromedical.ca/conditions/diab_feet_before_hbo_dscn2033.jpg
Diabesity results in foot and leg amputations.

Or you can show them what their gluttony is doing to their kids.

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/08/fat_kid.jpg

Of course it would be politically incorrect to ask the parents of these two porkers WTF is wrong with them. AND.. even though this is the cruelest form of child abuse the parents of these little eat beasts will not spend any time in the slammer. So forget about calling child protective services on the sperm donor and his zoo keeper wife.

What I do when I pass by a fat mother with fat kids I say to who even I am with so that she can hear, that's a whole lotta nasty. Sometimes I simply oink at them. If I am with my wife I say. "Look honey it's a pod of landwhales."



Fat people should be ridiculed and ridiculed often.

JJ Cooper
03-12-2008, 10:02 AM
Some people need motivation to keep in shape and stay healthy. My wife is a personal fitness trainer and says motivating a client is very different to ridiculing a client. One gets fit, the other doesn't.

Why would I want to be abused when I can be encouraged?

JJ

Balldez
03-12-2008, 10:20 AM
*raises hand* I have questions.

1. Why does Balldez assume that moral outrage must be phony?

2. Why does Balldez not respond to posters who are attempting to discuss his ideas in a logical and reasoned manner? Why does he use emotion as the basis of his responses while accusing others of doing the exact same thing in a way that suggests emotional responses are a bad thing? Is he the only one permitted to use emotion in discussion?

1. Because it usually is. Nancy Grace has it down to a science.

2. (a) I have. (b) Part two is phony moral outrage so I cannot answer. (c) Now you are playing the role of the tragic victim. Have some Cool Ranch Doritos.

What we have here is fattitude. Here's how I describe fattitude in book.

Fattitude is a complex personality disorder that afflicts fat people. It manifests itself in many ways. Fattitude is a disorder that allows people to get fat, stay fat and get fatter. The question people ask is, what comes first, the fattitude or the fat? If you were to compare fattitude to the alcoholism model, you would probably be of the school of thought that says the alcoholic is/was an alcoholic long before he or she took his or her first drink. It could be looked at as one of those chicken or the egg things but I believe, as do others that alcoholism is in part inherited and multi-factorial in origin. The same is probably true for fattitude.

The Urban Dictionary definition of fattitude: A combination of "Fat" and "Attitude"; the loud, boisterous, obnoxious arrogance often displayed by large and/or obese women. This is very common; many large women often try to overshadow their physical enormity with a similarly large and over-exaggerated large-and-in-charge attitude.

"Dude, that blubbery fat chick needs to shut up already. She's got a major case of fattitude."

That is an incomplete definition of fattitude. My definition is more akin to a description of a personality disorder found in the DSM.

Fattitude is a pervasive pattern of arrogance, laziness, envy, egocentric behavior, poor impulse control, immaturity, rigid thinking, denial, gluttony and sloth.

Individuals with fattitude often display sense of entitlement while portraying themselves as tragic victims.

They are preoccupied with their own creature comforts with the major creature comfort being junk food. Food becomes more important to them than anything else and soon most of their social activities involve sitting and consuming food. They exhibit extreme hedonism as part of their daily routine. With these behaviors becoming more and common fattitude is becoming harder to recognize.

Balldez
03-12-2008, 11:01 AM
Some people need motivation to keep in shape and stay healthy. My wife is a personal fitness trainer and says motivating a client is very different to ridiculing a client. One gets fit, the other doesn't.

Why would I want to be abused when I can be encouraged?

JJ

What people want is often not what they need. Fat people act like self-indulgent children. If you let your kids have pop and candy for breakfast they will.

98% of dieters fail. They have been getting hugs and cheer leading from Richard Simmons for years and they keep getting fatter. I think it is time we try a new approach. In Singapore fat people are stigmatized and they are the only country with a decline in obesity.

Fat people don't need a hug from Richard Simmons. They need their jaws wired shut and their faces slapped really hard. They think they can buy their way thin. These people are so lazy and undisciplined that they buy into crap like Jenny Craig and that home gym garbage. They bring stupid to a new low by opting for bariatric surgery. The death rate from WLS is 1 in 200. Just like the slop they eat, they want everything fast and easy.

Consider the insanity of weight loss surgery. What they do is reduce the stomach down to the size of a grape and then bypass the entire small intestine where nearly all nutrient absorption takes place.

Doctors are total scumbags. Iatrogenocide is the third leading cause of preventable death. According to the AMA doctor mistakes kill 130,000 people a year but some sources suggest that that number is closer to 250,000.

Nice hasn't worked. People are motivated by greed and fear only. Altruism ia about as rare and rocking horse shit. Food lust is a powerful force for a food slut to overcome. Fat people pretend that they want understanding but the only thing we need to understand about them is that they love food more than anything else. We have indulged their antic far too long. It's time for them to get off the sofa and dance to our tune.

Balldez
03-12-2008, 11:32 AM
Do your arms shrink when you become overweight?

JJ

Fat people swear they do.

http://fireloupiniella.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/weeble.jpg

While it IS true that Weebles wobble but they don't fall down they do have very small arms.

http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/fat-wheelie.jpg
As you can see he/she is doing wheelies to lengthen the arms.

http://hill10.com/images/funny/hawtbelly.jpg
You know she can't reach from the front or the back. Here's how they do it. After they get off the toilet they go into the shower. If the can reach with a portable shower head they use it. If the tub is big enough they soak.

When they are traveling they use a portable battery powered bidet and use a sponge on a stick like the kind you use for washing dishes.

What often happens is they develop bacterial and yeast infections in their fat folds.

Now do you see why you have to be cruel to be kind?

JJ Cooper
03-12-2008, 11:38 AM
Now do you see why you have to be cruel to be kind?

No. But all the best with your publishing quest.

JJ

Balldez
03-12-2008, 11:42 AM
Fat people ignore the something called conservation of mass. Metabolic rates do vary significantly in people of the same age, weight and gender.

Fat people also ignore the fact that 30 years ago most people were lean.

Fat people forget that their imaginary diseases that they claim make them fat were not around 30 years ago.

Fat people do not even believe their own lies.

Balldez
03-12-2008, 11:43 AM
No. But all the best with your publishing quest.

JJ

When you read the book you will. It takes a while to sink in.

JJ Cooper
03-12-2008, 11:46 AM
I'm too lazy to read a book like that.

JJ

Birol
03-12-2008, 12:16 PM
1. Because it usually is. Nancy Grace has it down to a science.

In your opinion. However, that assumes that you are capable of reading other people's minds, knowing their belief systems, and feeling their emotions for them. Such things are inherently not true. They are false.


2. (a) I have.

Well, no. Not really. Any time you engage someone it is to mock or belittle them or to mock and belittle the obese. You do not actually address any points or topics that they raise. For example, Monkey and I posted earlier in the discussion, yet you ignored our posts in favor of posting emotionally-charged song lyrics.


(b) Part two is phony moral outrage so I cannot answer.

No. It's not. It's a sincere and honest question. You purport to be morally outraged at the obesity epidemic sweeping the country. However, should anyone else have any emotions about your stance that do not mirror their own or should anyone simply respond to you in a way that would reveal the fallacy of your stances and arguments, you call into question their motives by assigning the label "phony moral outrage" to their questions or positions.

Doing so does not address the topic at hand or those who are seeking more information from you.


(c) Now you are playing the role of the tragic victim. Have some Cool Ranch Doritos.

No. I'm not. Rather than addressing my questions, you are choosing to name call. In debate, this is an intellectually dishonest tactic. Your statements are based on several assumptions that, logically, you have no way of knowing in the given format. Based on your earlier, stereotypical statements, you are assuming:

I'm obese.
I make fallacious excuses for my obesity.
I eat large portions and/or only junk food.
I do not exercise.
I like Cool Ranch Doritos.I will tell you this: Only one of those above assumptions are true.


What we have here is fattitude.

Again, rather than actually explaining your position or staying to the topic, you choose to attack your debate opponent through name-calling and emotion. Again, these are intellectually dishonest debate tactics.


Here's how I describe fattitude in book.

Ah. So we're finally getting into some actual content? As we progress, I see that our sole tactic is name calling, which should not surprise me. I mean, you have said that is your sole stance and sole cure for the obesity epidemic. What does surprise me is that you provide absolutely no support for why such a strategy or tactic should work, beyond the fact that you -- and what are your credentials again? -- oh, right, you've already admitted that you have none -- say it does.

Of all the times you have name-called, has anyone ever walked up to you and thanked you for the revelations? Have you ever changed anyone's mind about their eating or exercise habits? Have you actually helped any single individual through your tactics? What is your success rate through such an approach?


Fattitude is a complex personality disorder that afflicts fat people. It manifests itself in many ways. Fattitude is a disorder that allows people to get fat, stay fat and get fatter.

Right here, you contradict your entire premise. You state that your so-called 'fattitude' is actually a 'personality disorder.' This would mean that it is not fully the individual's choice and that treatments, beyond name-calling, should be available.


The question people ask is, what comes first, the fattitude or the fat?

Which people ask this question? For anyone to ask this question, before reading your book, it presumes that they are already familiar with the so-called 'fattitude' you are describing. In which case, why do you need to define it for them?


If you were to compare fattitude to the alcoholism model, you would probably be of the school of thought that says the alcoholic is/was an alcoholic long before he or she took his or her first drink. It could be looked at as one of those chicken or the egg things but I believe, as do others that alcoholism is in part inherited and multi-factorial in origin. The same is probably true for fattitude.

Again, you contradict yourself in this paragraph. First you compare the so-called 'fattitude' personality disorder to 'the alcoholism model.' However, you do not define this 'alcoholism model.' Later, you state that your view of alcoholism is that it is caused by complex genetic and social factors. You imply that this is a different alcoholism model than the norm. However, it is the same alcoholism model that I am familiar with. In other words, you are not offering a new viewpoint on alcoholism, although you imply that you are.

You go on to say that the so-called 'fattitude' disorder is probably the same. In other words, that it is caused by complex genetic and social factors. This contradicts your statement that obese people are obese because they are mindless gluttons who prefer to play the tragic victim rather than simply monitoring their caloric intake compared to their exercise levels. This states, quite plainly, that there are far more underlying causes of obesity than people simply eating gluttonous amounts. It also leads to the conclusion that, just as their are many treatment options available for alcoholism, and the one that works best will vary from individual to individual, there are also many treatment options available for the obese, and the one that works best will vary from individual to individual. In other words, your "name calling" approach is not a one-size fits all solution.


The Urban Dictionary definition of fattitude: A combination of "Fat" and "Attitude"; the loud, boisterous, obnoxious arrogance often displayed by large and/or obese women.

This definition implies that the so-called 'fattitude' personality disorder only afflicts women. Is the 'fattitude' personality disorder and the name-calling solution not applicable to men?


This is very common; many large women often try to overshadow their physical enormity with a similarly large and over-exaggerated large-and-in-charge attitude.

"Dude, that blubbery fat chick needs to shut up already. She's got a major case of fattitude."

This statement is unsupported. It is opinion masquerading as fact. Statistics need to be made available to support it.


That is an incomplete definition of fattitude. My definition is more akin to a description of a personality disorder found in the DSM.

Again, the assertion that it is a true personality disorder contradicts your statement that obese individuals are merely gluttons who refuse to stop eating. It implies that their are many, varied, and complex factors contributing to the obesity epidemic rather than just individuals eating too much. Your sole argument, throughout this thread, is that obesity is caused by gluttony and that their are no underlying causes. Yet, as soon as you post excerpts of your work, you contradict your earlier statements.


Fattitude is a pervasive pattern of arrogance, laziness, envy, egocentric behavior, poor impulse control, immaturity, rigid thinking, denial, gluttony and sloth.

Individuals with fattitude often display sense of entitlement while portraying themselves as tragic victims.

They are preoccupied with their own creature comforts with the major creature comfort being junk food. Food becomes more important to them than anything else and soon most of their social activities involve sitting and consuming food. They exhibit extreme hedonism as part of their daily routine. With these behaviors becoming more and common fattitude is becoming harder to recognize.

These statements are opinion and would need further statistical evidence and studies before they could be validated or even evaluated.

JeanneTGC
03-12-2008, 01:12 PM
I've got a statistic!

Statistically speaking, whenever you have a ranting, hate-spewing individual who's so busy pointing fingers at someone else or an entire group of someone elses with nothing but his own rhetoric to keep him going, that always means (every single time) that said ranting hate-spewer has a penis the size of a small child's thumb.

I'm doing a new book -- "Small Penises: How They Create Ranting, Hate-Spewing Morons Who Should be Ridiculed Day and Night for Their Inadequacy".

I think it's gonna be a big, big hit.

Rolling Thunder
03-12-2008, 03:33 PM
After reading this thread I've decided to write a book entitled "Morons: How to write a self-help book that even the author can understand."

I suspect it would go over the head of some people, however. :rolleyes:

PattiTheWicked
03-12-2008, 04:20 PM
I may end up self publishing on the internet. That way I can include animations and music as I have written songs about obesity.

Balldez: The Musical

Chorus: Oh, fat people, you're a bunch of fat peeeeeeoooppple!
America, you're just full of fat!

Skippy the Diet Whiz: Just wait! Just wait!
I've got something to share!
It's a great big secret but I'll spread it everywhere!
I wrote a book just full o'mean,
And stuck it on the 'Net!
I'm gonna tell those fatties just how skinny they can get!

Chorus: Oh, tell us, we're a bunch of fat peeeeeeople!
America is full of fat!

Skippy the Diet Whiz: It's easy! It's fun!
You can help others lose weight!
Tell 'em just how bad they look, and make yourself feel great!
They're gluttons, they're piggies,
they really make me sick!
If your honey won't stop eating, then just poke him with a stick!

Mayor Mctubby: Hang on, there, Skippy! We'll have none of that!
Whatever happened to exercise and cutting back on fat?
Eating healthy, and lots less junk, has so much more appeal --
You've got no leg to stand on, and those agents know the deal!

TICKETS ON SALE NOW - BOOK YOURS TODAY!!

Sheryl Nantus
03-12-2008, 04:48 PM
I'm willing to bet that the OP was married to an overweight woman, got miffed that she wouldn't lose weight according to his demands, and is now divorced/separated and on a rampage to "save the world" from fat women.

The misogyny is pretty obvious in his statements. There are really no sick fat men, only sick fat women.

So sad...

and yes, probably a very very small penis.

;)

Monkey
03-12-2008, 06:23 PM
At this point, I think that it is only fair to point out that if Balldez made these statements about a religious group or ethnicity he would have been banned by now.

As fun as this thread has been, the fun is all in absolutely baseless (and apparently endless) stupidity and pinata bashing.

The poster obviously is not here to learn or to share, but to spew hate.

Why is this still going on?

aka eraser
03-12-2008, 06:35 PM
I've just caught up with this thread and agree with Monkey.

What Balldez is spewing is hate speech. He crossed the line a few times. (No, not with the song - that was just dumb.)

There's no place here for hate mongers.

seun
03-12-2008, 06:47 PM
How I wish I'd seen this thread earlier. It was so funny I ate my own foot just to try and get fat. :ROFL:

Monkey
03-12-2008, 06:53 PM
Personally, in my list of sins, intolerance rates much higher than gluttony. Stupidity is up there, too, when it's willful.

BTW: awesome move banning the OP but not locking the thread.

New and Improved! Less hate, more fun! Operators are standing by!

:D

Sheryl Nantus
03-12-2008, 07:00 PM
I just find it rather sad that this man has devoted so much time and energy into something that's just... evil.

Hatred is a powerful emotion and he's channeled all of his energy into creating songs and threatening people when it could have really been productive. For example, he could have actually written about his problem with overweight people in a decent essay and start a true dialogue.

Instead he's now banned and probably ranting somewhere still about how the system is "stacked" against him, blah blah blah.

Talk about waste...

seun
03-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Talk about waste...

The word you want is wanker.

Monkey
03-12-2008, 07:18 PM
The opposite of love isn't hate, it's apathy.

This dude has issues.

Lauri B
03-12-2008, 07:44 PM
Just read this thread. It's usefulness (what little there was of it) has long since left the building. I'm locking it. But for the record, thank you to all the posters who tried to treat Baldez's proposal and questions about publishing thoughtfully and seriously.