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Copyright before you send to an agent or publisher?

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DoctorShade

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Hello I am new here, so if I am posting this in the wrong section I apologize.

My brother and I are writers (or we try to be), until recently I was under the impression that you should copyright your work before you send it to an agent or publisher. But someone who seemed to know what they were talking about said that it is bad to do this because it annoys the agent (or publisher) and is amateurish because legitimate agent/publishers are not out to steal your work , while I do believe this I am just a bit hesitate to send my brother's manuscript to an agent without it being protected some how. Are my fears unfounded?

Also is there a list of honest agents that I could send work to.

I know a little bit about the publishing world I've read the book "The Idiot's Guide to Writing a Novel" and "The Everything Creative Writing Book" but I still feel lost.
 

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Welcom to AW Water Cooler DoctorShade; we're delighted to have you join us.

You and / or your brother have copyright the minute you start writing, and yes, it's generally a bit foolish to register the copyright of a work before you send it to an agent.

You might read the Copyright FAQ
 

Siddow

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Hi, Doc. That someone DID know what they were talking about. I don't think the fact that you've copyrighted is annoying by itself, but saying, "This work is copyrighted so don't try to steal it or I'll sue you!" is. So is putting the copyright symbol on the MS.

You can start looking for agents at agentquery.com, but make sure you also:

1. Visit the agent's webpage if available
2. Look them up here on Bewares and background checks
3. Look them up on Preditors and Editors
4. google the agent's name + warning, agent's name + caution, agent's name + scam, agent's name + whateverelseyou'dliketobewarnedof.
5. visit client webpages. Read client books. Know client publishers.

And stick around here. Welcome!
 

DoctorShade

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Thanks. One more question that I forgot to include in my original message. Should the font be Courier or Times New Roman? Should it Be Double Spaced? What kind of Header footer is expected, I am so nervous that if I break any one of the little publishers etiquettes I will doom myself.

PS: I know my user name is "doctorshade" but I'm actually not a Doctor, I want to be a doctor when I graduate but the main reason why is it's a habbit. I usually register to websites with my username being DoctorShade or Shade. I only mention this because I don't like to fool people into believing I'm a doctor. :)
 

Siddow

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There's a sticky in Novels for manuscript format.

Calm down. Deep breath. Doc. :D
 

DoctorShade

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Thank you, and thanks for the information.

Now I'll just be trying to figure out how to automatically insert "Title / Author" on all of my pages :)
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
Are you using Microsoft Word?

If so:

1. Click on View in the main toolbar.
2. Select Header/Footer.
3. Type and format the information in the Header that you wish to appear.
4. Use the Header/Footer toolbar to switch between the header and footer, format page numbers, etc.
 

ResearchGuy

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. . . until recently I was under the impression that you should copyright your work before you send it to an agent or publisher. . . .
It is copyrighted the moment it takes physical form (on paper or as computer file). REGISTRATION of copyright is a different thing.

Spend some time at www.copyright.gov -- read the Copyright Basics and the FAQs.

Here are some other suggestions.

Basic homework

Go to some big bookstores, with pen and notebook. Look through the kinds of books you want to write. You should of course already be reading such books, as it is unlikely that you can write well what you do not choose to read.
Take notes on publishers. Take notes on mentions of agents in acknowledgments. Those publishers and agents are potential targets for your manuscript.
Contact publishers who publish the kind of book you have written or want to write. Ask for their guidelines for authors. (You might be able to find them on the Web.) Study the guidelines.
See which publishers accept unagented submissions. See the next section for resources, and also look at publishers’ websites. Publishers that do not accept “unsolicited submissions” might read a query letter. If the publisher responds to the query with a request for a book proposal or manuscript, then the manuscript or book proposal is solicited, not unsolicited.
Look up information (see next section) on agents who have represented manuscripts like yours or are seeking the kind of thing you have written.
Keep a running list of potential agents and publishers. You can do that in a file on your PC or on plain old note cards or in a notebook. Leave room for adding comments later.

Hit the books

A handful of essential reference books belong on your shelves, well thumbed, marked up, and flagged with Post-Its.

Trade references
  • Writer’s Market (latest edition), published by Writer’s Digest Press. This annual volume lists numerous publishers of books and periodicals and some literary agents, with useful information on what sorts of books they accept and other conditions. It also includes articles on writing and publishing.
  • Guide to Literary Agents (latest edition). Another annual from Writer’s Digest Press. It includes chapters on formatting manuscripts, writing queries, and more.
  • Jeff Herman’s Guide to Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents (latest edition). This is a more selective guide, but also more detailed. It excludes periodicals, as the focus is on books. It also includes valuable articles on such topics as writing queries and book proposals.
  • The Writer’s Handbook (latest edition), published by The Writer Books. Another directory of publishers plus advice on writing. Older volumes, which might be available in libraries, can be valuable for their articles on many aspects of writing. (This annual might not be as easy to find as the ubiquitous Writer’s Market.)
  • Literary Marketplace. This is the comprehensive guide to publishers and literary agents. You can find it in large libraries.
If you have to pick only one, I recommend Writer’s Market.

Resources for finding agents and publishers

In addition to the articles in Writer’s Market and comparable books in the previous section, the following are worth your time and money:
  • Bulletproof Book Proposals, by Pam Brodowsky and Eric Neuhaus (Writer’s Digest Books, 2006).
  • The Making of a Bestseller, by Brian Hill and Dee Power (Dearborn Trade Publishing, 2005).
  • How to Get a Literary Agent, by Michael Larsen (Sourcebooks, 2006). Larsen is a long-established agent (Larsen/Pomada Agency).
--Ken
 

DoctorShade

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Thanks again Birol and you too ResearchGuy, wow everyone is so nice and helpful here.
 

Mumut

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Welcome, DoctorShade. I've never copyrighted my work because I believe it is not necessary. An author automatically has copyright.

As to how to present to work to an agent or publisher. Their websites usually give you very specific instruction as to how you must send the work to them, and I suggest you take very great care to do what they want. Pain in the neck? Yes. Worth the effort? Yes.
 

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We couldn't possibly do that. Who'd clear up the m
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4. google the agent's name + warning, agent's name + caution, agent's name + scam, agent's name + whateverelseyou'dliketobewarnedof.

I tried that - I got a lot of warnings about explicit scenes, which is worrying because I don't have any. Maybe there will be a warning on my book WARNING: AGGRESSIVE TURNIPS!
 

DoctorShade

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I've been calling around and it seems that it will cost over 60 dollars to print my brother's manuscript at Staples or FedEx-Kinkos. I don't understand why they charge so much. although it is over 600 pages in the proper format, it's a good thing agents only want to get 5-30 pages initially because it would cost a fortune to send the whole thing to all of them.

I looked under Aknolegements in one of my favorite novels by Orson Scott Card and the Agent was Barbra Bova so I was thinking of sending it to her agency. I am at the library now so I was also going to pick up a copy of Writer’s Market (The 2008 edition is out is the 2007 edition good enough?)

I have another question, hope I'm not being an insufferable pain in the neck, I just read that anything that is supposed to be italized must be underlined. My brother and I were wondering if there is a way to automatically change anything in italics to underline so he doesn't have to go through the whole manuscript and change it.
 

DoctorShade

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Yes, you can do this using Find/Replace.

Do you have a printer at home?

I've used Find/Replace, can you ask it to Find all the italics and replace it with underline?

Yes I have a printer at home but ink and paper are expensive especially for a Dell printer. So it would probably be cheaper to print it at a store like Staples or FedEx-Kinkos.
 

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. . . I don't understand why they charge so much. . . .
Photocopying (around here, anyway) runs 8 cents per page. That adds up for a long manuscript. I've paid $30+ per copy to have some manuscripts printed and spiral bound (those were for selected advance readers; Lulu.com is a lot cheaper for that purpose). The process of seeking publication is not cheap -- printing, packaging, postage, phone calls, reference materials, maybe some travel and research expenses (even for fiction -- sometimes a lot even for fiction), and on and on. Not to mention living expenses.

As for Writer's Market -- even the 2008 edition is already getting dated. You might want to look into a subscription to the online version. At least check publishers' and agents' websites for current information.

Underlining instead of italics? Hmmm. That is a new one on me, though I cannot claim expertise on that point. I know I have had to fix up manuscripts to correct underlined TO italics in preparation for publication. (One of my writer friends insists on underlining stuff that should be in italics.) You might want to inquire further on that question.

--Ken

P.S. Folks around here love honest, sensible questions. You came to the right place.
 
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DoctorShade

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Well in one of the articles on this site about formatting it said that in Courier New italics is hard to distinguish from regular text so underlining is used until it is published.

Ok, I don't have a lot of money to work with so I will definatley try to get a hold of the 2008 version of the book because I don't think I can afford paid subscriptions. I work at a library so it should be hard for me to get a copy of the latest version eventually.
 

Julie Worth

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Underlining vs. italics. It depends both on the font you're using and on the stated preference of the agent or editor. I always underline when I submit in Courier (as italics doesn't show up), but I use italics with TNR. And now I've begun using Bitstream Vera Serif (which is more readable than TNR), and I use italics there too. It shouldn't take you more than a few moments to convert a style from one font to another, or italics to underlining.
 
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Well in one of the articles on this site about formatting it said that in Courier New italics is hard to distinguish from regular text so underlining is used until it is published. . . .

Ah! Interesting.

I always default to Times New Roman. (To my surprise, it even looks good in POD books -- much better than I had been led to believe.) Bottom line is to do what agent or publisher asks.

--Ken
 

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DoctorShade, unless the agent/publisher specifies they want Courier with underlining, don't worry. You are free to do Times New Roman with italics and no agent or publisher will begrudge you. Yes there are always debates in these threads about which is better, but the fact is, unless they specify what they want, you are perfectly safe. Agents and editors simply want something that is readable, italics don't matter (the italics/underline debate comes from using typewriters and copy editing, nothing to do with the initial submission process). Believe me.
 

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If you want to feel extra secure you can register copyright before submitting (I don't but it's your choice and your money).

But there is no need to tell the editor or agent that you submit to that you have registered copyright.
 

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Actually I have a question about that, I thought that registering copyright made it more difficult on the publishing house later, like they couldn't change stuff in the MS or something. Is that true, or is that just a rumour I heard somewhere?
 

Julie Worth

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Actually I have a question about that, I thought that registering copyright made it more difficult on the publishing house later, like they couldn't change stuff in the MS or something. Is that true, or is that just a rumour I heard somewhere?


"An Outline of Copyright Law" states that double copyrighting can result in forfeiture of copyright. Something to think about, for sure, before rushing a copy off to Washington.
 

DoctorShade

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DoctorShade, unless the agent/publisher specifies they want Courier with underlining, don't worry. You are free to do Times New Roman with italics and no agent or publisher will begrudge you. Yes there are always debates in these threads about which is better, but the fact is, unless they specify what they want, you are perfectly safe. Agents and editors simply want something that is readable, italics don't matter (the italics/underline debate comes from using typewriters and copy editing, nothing to do with the initial submission process). Believe me.

Now I'm just a little confused, so it can in fact be Times New Roman, italics instead of Courier New, under line and it won't matter? I'm worried I'll do the wrong thing.
 

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As for Writer's Market -- even the 2008 edition is already getting dated. You might want to look into a subscription to the online version. At least check publishers' and agents' websites for current information.
Be careful even with the online edition. I subscribe and have been finding large amounts of outdated info. even in listings that were supposedly just updated. For example, there is one publisher that supposedly was just verified at the end of Feb., yet as far as I can tell they are out of business totally.
 
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