The Getty Villa is a beautiful place of 64 acres in Malibu, California, right on the coast. It was founded by J. Paul Getty and is dedicated to the study of the arts and cultures of ancient Greece, Rome and Etruria. Mr. Getty’s idea was to re-create a first-century Roman country house – the Villa dei Papiri – and house the artifacts there, so the site is like strolling through a villa in ancient Rome – lovely and lush and amazing, every square inch of it.
I was able to roam around the museum and grounds for a few hours and soak in a lot of wonderful art, artifacts, and artisan work of those cultures. I saw a lot of pottery, silver and bronze table ware, bronze candelabra, beautiful statues, bronze figurines, gravestones, mosaics, frescos. There were rooms on ancient sport, marble, precious metal, terra cotta, gods and goddesses, theater, etc. I took a lot of notes and made sketches. There was a heartbreaking life-sized statue of a wounded Greek youth who had fallen to his knees and was trying to pull an arrow out of his back. Apparently the Greeks loved depicting warriors in art, because it gave them an excuse to showcase the perfect male form. *sigh* I have such a soft spot for warriors.
There is a lovely Outer Peristyle formal garden which is just like what one would have found for relaxation and conversation in an old Roman villa, with fountains, a long pool lined by statues, and of course the precisely groomed plants and hedges. There is also a separate herb garden planted with species known from the ancient Mediterranean – fruit, herbs for cooking and medicine, etc.
I took a 45 minute tour on wine and its cultural aspects which was fascinating. There was even a glass case displaying terra cotta pottery with depictions of adverse effects of drinking too much wine. One showed a man vomiting, and another showed a man so drunk that he was singing naked and not realizing he was urinating at the same time. A slave boy was catching the urine in a vessel. Sheesh. Those Greeks had great senses of humor!
Now finally, the highlight – the panel discussion with Steven Pressfield and Steven Saylor on writing historical fiction:
Pat Morrison was the moderator and is a local radio host on public radio, a Los Angeles Times reporter and an author. Along with her wonderful wit and intelligence, which I’ve enjoyed time and again on the radio, she demonstrated keen insight into the issues that come up in writing historical fiction and asked great questions, as did the audience.
Steven Pressfield – best known for Gates of Fire, his novel about the Spartan stand at Thermopylae – is so nice, down to earth, soft-spoken, with an easy smile and an obvious interest in helping newer writers. He seemed so much like the wise and kind mentor type. And he was wearing very nice shoes in a deep reddish brown. (See what writing many bestsellers will get you? Actually, both men were very well dressed, with sports jackets and ties in golden brown tones.) The first thing he did before he spoke was ask the audience for a show of hands for who “…has written historical fiction, is writing historical fiction, aspires to write historical fiction…?” And he addressed many of his comments to those people, venturing a bit into the more technical side of writing with that disclaimer. I loved him. He makes writing seem so accessible, has no apparent ego, and makes us feel as though we can do it, too. When answering the question of how he began writing about ancient Sparta, he said it was after he had The Legend of Bagger Vance completed and his publisher asked for another book. Pressfield had always liked ancient Greece and had some background knowledge about it and so he “thought he might try” something there.
Steven Saylor – best known for his historical mysteries set in ancient Rome, the Roma Sub Rosa series—seemed to enjoy the spotlight a bit more, telling entertaining stories about his childhood growing up in a small town in Texas in terms of how it related to his interest in historical fiction. Cleopatra seems to have made quite an impression on the man, and his stories, different as they all were, seemed mostly to circle back to Cleopatra somehow. He has a great sense of humor, very clever, very animated in his speech, with an underlying seriousness about his approach to his subject matter.
Let’s see – some highlights of questions of interest to historical fiction writers:
-Pat Morrison asked how historical fiction authors make that leap into the heads of great people in the past and speculated that it takes some sort of audacity in a way. Both men nodded in agreement, and Pressfield remarked that it takes either guts or stupidity and got a big laugh. Saylor commented that he sort of bypasses that issue by having his POV characters be normal, everyday people who can see and comment on the big historical figures, but that gives him more leeway and I think he might have even used the term “cop-out” in sort of a half-joking manner.
-Pat Morrison asked about the research involved, and both men agreed that a writer needs to find a balance between doing enough research and then going overboard where it becomes an excuse or mechanism to avoid the actual writing. Of course one should start out by immersing oneself in the period, but then the writing has to begin. Pressfield gave the example of when he has four hour workday, he might use the first hour for research, then he forces himself to use the rest of the time for the actual writing of the story. Saylor commented on how he read the entirety of Livy’s History of Rome to prepare for his novel Roma, and how the effects on his brain from that sort of reading for long periods can make him want only to “watch Law and Order” by the time evening hits.
-Interestingly, both men mentioned historical inaccuracies that they were called on by readers. Pressfield had a tomato in ancient Greece, and Saylor had a hummingbird fly into is character’s garden in ancient Rome. Saylor says he is fortunate that his books have gone through multiple prints, because he can edit out the errors in subsequent versions.
-Pressfield brought up the point that there is historical fact, and then there are things you simply “make up”, and the made up stuff often feels more “real”. He said that he often gets feedback from readers about how real something felt, and more often than not, it’s the stuff he made up. He seemed to find that delightful. Saylor agreed and gave an example. He said in his book Roma he put forth the entirely made up assertion that the Greeks called Zeus Zeus and the Romans called him Jupiter because of onomatopoeia – that lightning sounded like Zeus! to the Greeks and Jupiter! to the Romans. He also made up something about Venus that I can’t recall right now as I type this, but the point was that a very respected reviewer in a large newspaper (sorry, forgot again) pointed out his “meticulous research” and used those two things as examples of said meticulous research. That point got a good laugh from the audience.
-Part of the discussion touched on how authors make conscious choices of how accurate they are going to be historically, in order to serve the story. When Pressfield wrote about Alexander the Great (I think it was Alexander, I might be wrong) he combined several (I think eight) real government officials under Alexander into two characters that portrayed the two sides he wanted in order to serve the theme he had chosen for his story. Some (not Pressfield or Saylor) have used characters who were dead at the time of the story, because they ‘needed them there. But then Saylor pointed out that William Shakespeare’s research was meticulous and absolutely accurate in all four of his plays regarding ancient Rome, but that he was still able to wring the utmost drama out of the actual events. Both men agreed that there is enough drama already in the historical record to well serve authors.
-The questions from the audience were intelligent and interesting as well. There were some about choices made to keep the historical fiction in the context of that period and the challenges there, and that sometimes authors choose to bring the context more into the present, for whatever reason. Others asked about how one really stays true to the past. Pressfield admitted he’s been called on his Spartans sounding more like present day Marines than ancient Greeks, but he says one must keep the story accessible to a modern audience. Both agreed, though, that trying to stay true to the past was a good goal.
-Another audience member asked Pressfield what he thought about 300 – the graphic novel made into a movie about the Spartans at Thermopylae. Pressfield was not complimentary. His opinion is that graphic novel type treatments are fine for fantasy like Superman and such, but to take a real historical event where many lives were sacrificed and which changed the course of history is disrespectful, and that if he showed 300 to the actual Spartans that died there, he doesn’t think they would have thought highly of it either.
-That sort of segued the discussion into the “dumbing down” of history, and the lack of historical knowledge of today’s young people.
-Another audience member asked the authors how they keep from “falling in love” with their characters, even to the point of romanticizing or hero worshipping those who in essence are evil people or who did evil things. Both authors acknowledged that this is a real danger, and Pressfield confessed he thought he was guilty of that to a degree.
-Another audience member asked about planning the stories. Pressfield mentioned a highly regarded mentor of his who told him that a piece of yellow legal paper is the perfect size for planning a story and it sounded like he’s sort of kept that in mind. Saylor said he has always “written by the seat of his pants”, meaning a short page of running notes that give the story’s general outline. But for Roma he was asked to write an outline for the publisher, and it ended up being 150 pages long. He said it was the “greatest experience he’s had as a writer”. After writing that outline all he had to do was fill in dialogue and scenery, there were “no stoppages”, and he had an extremely smooth experience of writing it.
That’s about all I have time to recount now, except that I had the pleasure of walking up three flights of outside stairs surrounding a beautiful fountain/pool to the reception, with Steven Pressfield. I had just thanked the moderator Ms. Morrison who had stepped out of the auditorium and had no one with her, and then I looked back and there was Mr. Pressfield standing by himself. I turned to him and introduced myself; I’m sure I acted like a star-struck fan, as I have only a foggy recollection of exactly how I introduced myself. He was extremely friendly, and we ended up walking up the long flights of stairs together and talking a bit about his work and my WIP which is also based in Sparta. At one point he asked me if I had ever been to Sparta (remember THAT discussion here, AWers?) and I told him no, and that I have two young children and not really the means to do so now. I must have looked crestfallen or something as I stuttered my explanation about why I couldn’t make the trip right now, because he put his hand on my arm and said, “But I was going to tell you that you don’t have to go. I didn’t go to Sparta until after I’d written Gates of Fire.” And I said something about how I'd read how he'd walked along the battlefield areas in Sparta, and he said, "Yes, but that was after." He was so nice and encouraging, and I felt like I was speaking with a favorite uncle rather than a stranger. I just wish I could spend hours conversing with him, but alas there was an entire reception of people who were no doubt competing with me for his time, and so I thanked him and raced home to relieve the babysitter (my husband). All in all it was a truly enjoyable and fascinating day and one I’ll always remember.
I was able to roam around the museum and grounds for a few hours and soak in a lot of wonderful art, artifacts, and artisan work of those cultures. I saw a lot of pottery, silver and bronze table ware, bronze candelabra, beautiful statues, bronze figurines, gravestones, mosaics, frescos. There were rooms on ancient sport, marble, precious metal, terra cotta, gods and goddesses, theater, etc. I took a lot of notes and made sketches. There was a heartbreaking life-sized statue of a wounded Greek youth who had fallen to his knees and was trying to pull an arrow out of his back. Apparently the Greeks loved depicting warriors in art, because it gave them an excuse to showcase the perfect male form. *sigh* I have such a soft spot for warriors.
There is a lovely Outer Peristyle formal garden which is just like what one would have found for relaxation and conversation in an old Roman villa, with fountains, a long pool lined by statues, and of course the precisely groomed plants and hedges. There is also a separate herb garden planted with species known from the ancient Mediterranean – fruit, herbs for cooking and medicine, etc.
I took a 45 minute tour on wine and its cultural aspects which was fascinating. There was even a glass case displaying terra cotta pottery with depictions of adverse effects of drinking too much wine. One showed a man vomiting, and another showed a man so drunk that he was singing naked and not realizing he was urinating at the same time. A slave boy was catching the urine in a vessel. Sheesh. Those Greeks had great senses of humor!
Now finally, the highlight – the panel discussion with Steven Pressfield and Steven Saylor on writing historical fiction:
Pat Morrison was the moderator and is a local radio host on public radio, a Los Angeles Times reporter and an author. Along with her wonderful wit and intelligence, which I’ve enjoyed time and again on the radio, she demonstrated keen insight into the issues that come up in writing historical fiction and asked great questions, as did the audience.
Steven Pressfield – best known for Gates of Fire, his novel about the Spartan stand at Thermopylae – is so nice, down to earth, soft-spoken, with an easy smile and an obvious interest in helping newer writers. He seemed so much like the wise and kind mentor type. And he was wearing very nice shoes in a deep reddish brown. (See what writing many bestsellers will get you? Actually, both men were very well dressed, with sports jackets and ties in golden brown tones.) The first thing he did before he spoke was ask the audience for a show of hands for who “…has written historical fiction, is writing historical fiction, aspires to write historical fiction…?” And he addressed many of his comments to those people, venturing a bit into the more technical side of writing with that disclaimer. I loved him. He makes writing seem so accessible, has no apparent ego, and makes us feel as though we can do it, too. When answering the question of how he began writing about ancient Sparta, he said it was after he had The Legend of Bagger Vance completed and his publisher asked for another book. Pressfield had always liked ancient Greece and had some background knowledge about it and so he “thought he might try” something there.
Steven Saylor – best known for his historical mysteries set in ancient Rome, the Roma Sub Rosa series—seemed to enjoy the spotlight a bit more, telling entertaining stories about his childhood growing up in a small town in Texas in terms of how it related to his interest in historical fiction. Cleopatra seems to have made quite an impression on the man, and his stories, different as they all were, seemed mostly to circle back to Cleopatra somehow. He has a great sense of humor, very clever, very animated in his speech, with an underlying seriousness about his approach to his subject matter.
Let’s see – some highlights of questions of interest to historical fiction writers:
-Pat Morrison asked how historical fiction authors make that leap into the heads of great people in the past and speculated that it takes some sort of audacity in a way. Both men nodded in agreement, and Pressfield remarked that it takes either guts or stupidity and got a big laugh. Saylor commented that he sort of bypasses that issue by having his POV characters be normal, everyday people who can see and comment on the big historical figures, but that gives him more leeway and I think he might have even used the term “cop-out” in sort of a half-joking manner.
-Pat Morrison asked about the research involved, and both men agreed that a writer needs to find a balance between doing enough research and then going overboard where it becomes an excuse or mechanism to avoid the actual writing. Of course one should start out by immersing oneself in the period, but then the writing has to begin. Pressfield gave the example of when he has four hour workday, he might use the first hour for research, then he forces himself to use the rest of the time for the actual writing of the story. Saylor commented on how he read the entirety of Livy’s History of Rome to prepare for his novel Roma, and how the effects on his brain from that sort of reading for long periods can make him want only to “watch Law and Order” by the time evening hits.
-Interestingly, both men mentioned historical inaccuracies that they were called on by readers. Pressfield had a tomato in ancient Greece, and Saylor had a hummingbird fly into is character’s garden in ancient Rome. Saylor says he is fortunate that his books have gone through multiple prints, because he can edit out the errors in subsequent versions.
-Pressfield brought up the point that there is historical fact, and then there are things you simply “make up”, and the made up stuff often feels more “real”. He said that he often gets feedback from readers about how real something felt, and more often than not, it’s the stuff he made up. He seemed to find that delightful. Saylor agreed and gave an example. He said in his book Roma he put forth the entirely made up assertion that the Greeks called Zeus Zeus and the Romans called him Jupiter because of onomatopoeia – that lightning sounded like Zeus! to the Greeks and Jupiter! to the Romans. He also made up something about Venus that I can’t recall right now as I type this, but the point was that a very respected reviewer in a large newspaper (sorry, forgot again) pointed out his “meticulous research” and used those two things as examples of said meticulous research. That point got a good laugh from the audience.
-Part of the discussion touched on how authors make conscious choices of how accurate they are going to be historically, in order to serve the story. When Pressfield wrote about Alexander the Great (I think it was Alexander, I might be wrong) he combined several (I think eight) real government officials under Alexander into two characters that portrayed the two sides he wanted in order to serve the theme he had chosen for his story. Some (not Pressfield or Saylor) have used characters who were dead at the time of the story, because they ‘needed them there. But then Saylor pointed out that William Shakespeare’s research was meticulous and absolutely accurate in all four of his plays regarding ancient Rome, but that he was still able to wring the utmost drama out of the actual events. Both men agreed that there is enough drama already in the historical record to well serve authors.
-The questions from the audience were intelligent and interesting as well. There were some about choices made to keep the historical fiction in the context of that period and the challenges there, and that sometimes authors choose to bring the context more into the present, for whatever reason. Others asked about how one really stays true to the past. Pressfield admitted he’s been called on his Spartans sounding more like present day Marines than ancient Greeks, but he says one must keep the story accessible to a modern audience. Both agreed, though, that trying to stay true to the past was a good goal.
-Another audience member asked Pressfield what he thought about 300 – the graphic novel made into a movie about the Spartans at Thermopylae. Pressfield was not complimentary. His opinion is that graphic novel type treatments are fine for fantasy like Superman and such, but to take a real historical event where many lives were sacrificed and which changed the course of history is disrespectful, and that if he showed 300 to the actual Spartans that died there, he doesn’t think they would have thought highly of it either.
-That sort of segued the discussion into the “dumbing down” of history, and the lack of historical knowledge of today’s young people.
-Another audience member asked the authors how they keep from “falling in love” with their characters, even to the point of romanticizing or hero worshipping those who in essence are evil people or who did evil things. Both authors acknowledged that this is a real danger, and Pressfield confessed he thought he was guilty of that to a degree.
-Another audience member asked about planning the stories. Pressfield mentioned a highly regarded mentor of his who told him that a piece of yellow legal paper is the perfect size for planning a story and it sounded like he’s sort of kept that in mind. Saylor said he has always “written by the seat of his pants”, meaning a short page of running notes that give the story’s general outline. But for Roma he was asked to write an outline for the publisher, and it ended up being 150 pages long. He said it was the “greatest experience he’s had as a writer”. After writing that outline all he had to do was fill in dialogue and scenery, there were “no stoppages”, and he had an extremely smooth experience of writing it.
That’s about all I have time to recount now, except that I had the pleasure of walking up three flights of outside stairs surrounding a beautiful fountain/pool to the reception, with Steven Pressfield. I had just thanked the moderator Ms. Morrison who had stepped out of the auditorium and had no one with her, and then I looked back and there was Mr. Pressfield standing by himself. I turned to him and introduced myself; I’m sure I acted like a star-struck fan, as I have only a foggy recollection of exactly how I introduced myself. He was extremely friendly, and we ended up walking up the long flights of stairs together and talking a bit about his work and my WIP which is also based in Sparta. At one point he asked me if I had ever been to Sparta (remember THAT discussion here, AWers?) and I told him no, and that I have two young children and not really the means to do so now. I must have looked crestfallen or something as I stuttered my explanation about why I couldn’t make the trip right now, because he put his hand on my arm and said, “But I was going to tell you that you don’t have to go. I didn’t go to Sparta until after I’d written Gates of Fire.” And I said something about how I'd read how he'd walked along the battlefield areas in Sparta, and he said, "Yes, but that was after." He was so nice and encouraging, and I felt like I was speaking with a favorite uncle rather than a stranger. I just wish I could spend hours conversing with him, but alas there was an entire reception of people who were no doubt competing with me for his time, and so I thanked him and raced home to relieve the babysitter (my husband). All in all it was a truly enjoyable and fascinating day and one I’ll always remember.
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