Philosophical Question

StephanieFox · Mar 4, 2008

From CNN:

Ordinarily, octopodes have eight arms and legs. And should they lose one or more in an accident, they can grow the limbs back.
Which is what makes 'Henry' -- as staffers at Blackpool Sea Life Centre in northwest England have dubbed their find -- so unique.
His missing limbs stem from a birth defect.
"If you look closer between the legs, there's webbing that attaches each of the arms together," John Filmer of the Sea Life Centre told CNN Tuesday. "You'd assume if he'd lost one of his legs in an accident, there would be space for an arm to grow back.
"But there's no space for two extra legs to grow back. That's just how he is."

So, is a six-legged octopus still an octopus, or is it a hexapus?

I didn't know where else to post this. Hope it's ok to post here.

ColoradoGuy · Mar 4, 2008

Octopus, I'd say, albeit a limb-challenged one. I take the word to describe the species, even if a particular example is deformed. A cow without a leg remains a member of a species of quadrapeds.

robeiae · Mar 4, 2008

It's still an octopus, but it's not an octopod.

DeaconBlu · Mar 4, 2008

limb-challenged

LOL, that's good, I'd go with that one.

maestrowork · Mar 4, 2008

What is an Octopussy?

veinglory · Mar 4, 2008

Ruv Draba · Mar 5, 2008

ColoradoGuy said:
Octopus, I'd say, albeit a limb-challenged one. I take the word to describe the species, even if a particular example is deformed. A cow without a leg remains a member of a species of quadrapeds.

So true. And similarly, a vegetarian ant-eater would still be called the same...

And I bet that ticks them off, too: "Don't label me for the atrocities of my race!!"

Dawnstorm · Mar 5, 2008

albino blackbird

Higgins · Mar 5, 2008

Dawnstorm said:
albino blackbird

Is the haploid state of some moss the whole moss or just part of the moss?

Dawnstorm · Mar 5, 2008

Higgins said:
Is the haploid state of some moss the whole moss or just part of the moss?

A question of taxonomy?

Higgins · Mar 5, 2008

Dawnstorm said:
A question of taxonomy?

Good Question. Even using the best cladistic methods, it seems there is some controversy about the mosses:

http://www.tolweb.org/Bryophyta

http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/bio/bioja/vk/huttunen/phylogen.pdf

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/91/5/748

Somehow, Sinikka ended
up (probably even too often) listening to everyone’s worries at the cryptogamic herbarium.

dgiharris · Mar 7, 2008

WHat if his birth defect is actually a genetic mutation?

If he finds a lucky lady (Octopussy?) and decides to settle down and have kids. If those kids in turn have six limbs, then I say he is no longer an octopus. He is a new bread.

A hexapus.

But, if he has kids and they pop out with eight limbs, then he is a limbed-challenged octopus.

that is my 2 cents.

Mel...

Higgins · Mar 7, 2008

dgiharris said:
WHat if his birth defect is actually a genetic mutation?

If he finds a lucky lady (Octopussy?) and decides to settle down and have kids. If those kids in turn have six limbs, then I say he is no longer an octopus. He is a new bread.

A hexapus.

But, if he has kids and they pop out with eight limbs, then he is a limbed-challenged octopus.

that is my 2 cents.

Mel...

What if...like a good hexpus, he leaves his sperm packet to science and crawls off to die and the packet is frozen and we just never know whether he was quite yet the father of all hexpussies???

Dawnstorm · Mar 7, 2008

And what if said hexapus would have everything else in common with mommy's species? Would we expand and shift the order of octopoda to include this one six-legged species? Would we classify it as a different species at all, since - presumably - six-legs could easily breed with eight-legs - and - assuming the mutation survives - we would have a single species of octopus that could have six-legs? Or what if the six-leg variety isn't a genetic variation at all?

I think I'll write a SF piece about Bonsai octopoda and animal rights activists.

StephanieFox · Mar 16, 2008

I really hope that the folks with this creature do breed him or her so they can find out what's goin' on. It would be fun for them to create a new species without going in and messin' with the genes. I guess after that, we could talk about what to name the new animal.

Khazarkhum · Mar 18, 2008

StephanieFox said:
I really hope that the folks with this creature do breed him or her so they can find out what's goin' on. It would be fun for them to create a new species without going in and messin' with the genes. I guess after that, we could talk about what to name the new animal.

Deliberately breeding for a specific trait is, by definition, messin' with the genes.

StephanieFox · Mar 18, 2008

Nah! It's love!

Leave the octogirl and boy alone together with a dinner of oysters and a little Barry White on the hi-fi and let nature take it's course.

jbryson · Apr 21, 2008

StephanieFox said:
From CNN:

So, is a six-legged octopus still an octopus, or is it a hexapus?

Nah, he's an insect.

yaxkin · Jul 20, 2008

Just A Thought

A Deconstruction of your question would suggest that there exists a first principle desire to validate the modernist ideology that underlies science. I have no interest in doing so. Instead, I suggest you call the creature... Gato Loco.

I tend to think that we spend too much of our existence trying to get things right rather than simply appreciating things for what they are. You don't really believe that we exist in a world where such a concern as how to properly classify this creature should exist outside of a scientific blog, do you? Wouldn't you rather play a nice game of Chess?

Higgins · Jul 21, 2008

yaxkin said:
Just A Thought

A Deconstruction of your question would suggest that there exists a first principle desire to validate the modernist ideology that underlies science.

I don't know. Maybe on this one you can just skip deconstructing and go
straight to Freud for all the marbles: possible "Loss" of octopus arm = castration anxiety. But the article says "that's just the way he is"...so the anxiety is brought up and then to some degree made into an safe and "natural" topic. Indeed, a "philosophical" topic.

smoothseas · Jul 21, 2008

Our niece teaches third grade. Last spring her class took a field trip to the zoo. Their homework assignment for that evening was to produce a paragraph about which animal they'd like to be and why.

Josh wrote that he wanted to be an octopus. Why? So he could have eight testicles.

She said that the teacher's lounge was in stitches all that afternoon at lunch.

Danger Jane · Jul 21, 2008

dgiharris said:
WHat if his birth defect is actually a genetic mutation?

If he finds a lucky lady (Octopussy?) and decides to settle down and have kids. If those kids in turn have six limbs, then I say he is no longer an octopus. He is a new bread.

A hexapus.

But, if he has kids and they pop out with eight limbs, then he is a limbed-challenged octopus.

that is my 2 cents.

Mel...

If he's a new species, he wouldn't be able to breed with a female octopus. Sounds like a mixup of HOX genes to me? And humans born with many limbs are still human.

Philosophical Question

StephanieFox

Maybull the Bulldog

ColoradoGuy

I've seen worse.

robeiae

Touch and go

DeaconBlu

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Ruv Draba

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here

Higgins

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here

Higgins

dgiharris

Disgruntled Scientist

Higgins

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here

StephanieFox

Maybull the Bulldog

Khazarkhum

StephanieFox

Maybull the Bulldog

jbryson

yaxkin

Higgins

smoothseas

Life sucks... Then ya die...

Danger Jane