CONFLICT SWEET CONFLICT

james1611 · Feb 25, 2008

This might seem like a strange idea for Christians, but when it comes to novel writing, CONFLICT is the meat of all that you will probably ever write.

Think about it...Even the entire bible is chock full of conflict. Man in conflict with his Creator, Satan in conflict with God, man in conflict with Satan, man in conflict with man and on we could go. The biblical narrative is driven by it. And any good novel will be driven by it as well.
So then, conflict is something that we need to know how to create as fiction writers! Otherwise your readers will have to be poked with a stick to keep them awake. More likely they'll just toss your paperback in the "gar-bage" and never read you again

At the moment I can't think of one single fiction book that does not have some level of conflict in it. It might be as simple as Winnie the Pooh has to save Piglet from the kite blowing him away into the hundred acre wood or as profound as a world wide catastrophe! But it sure better be interesting to your intended audience.

If you're going to write fiction your going to write conflict--now you just have to figure out what sort of conflict you will tackle in your story. It all depends on the genre that you're writing for. Some 60ft. shark on the rampage naturally isn't going to appearl to your romance audience.
Generally you'll find that the great novels have a major point of conflict and several layers of smaller conflicts all brewing beneath. These might take the form of twists that add to the uniqueness of your main conflict. Most people would say that all possible plotlines have already been done---but maybe it's more about how you create interesting combinations and levels of conflicts, all of which present your characters with problem of resolving within 300 pages.

Conflict will pull the reader along--think about it. Who wants to sit and read endlessly of a spring day with butterflies and daffodils, birds chirping and how lovely the sun feels on your main characters buttermilk soft skin. Everything is fine in their world, no problems whatsoever, not even any internal schisms or demons to contend with....just peaceful, tranquil....(snoooooreeee)....oh, I'm sorry, must've dozed off there

People want CONFLICT to pull them in and pull them along. Don't pass on a good situation that brings conflict, especially if it's on many levels---oooh, ahhh.
Not only does the hero have vicious baddies to contend with, but he's battling inner demons the likes of which mere mortals cannot fathom. Not only does the heroine have cancer to battle, but she's in love with a man her kids despise because they feel he's taking the place of the dad who died in a horrible car accident.

Ah, sweet conflict...the fiction writers greatest ally...the essential ingredient of any great story

blessings,
James

Robin Bayne · Feb 25, 2008

I absolutely agree, James, without conflict we have no story!

Sempine · Feb 25, 2008

I suspect your preaching to the choir.

Mac

james1611 · Feb 25, 2008

Even the choir members have to learn to sing

James

Deleted member 42 · Feb 25, 2008

james1611 said:
Conflict will pull the reader along--think about it. Who wants to sit and read endlessly of a spring day with butterflies and daffodils, birds chirping and how lovely the sun feels on your main characters buttermilk soft skin. Everything is fine in their world, no problems whatsoever, not even any internal schisms or demons to contend with....just peaceful, tranquil....(snoooooreeee)....oh, I'm sorry, must've dozed off there

I WANDER'D lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the Milky Way,
They stretch'd in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced; but they
Out-did the sparkling waves in glee:
A poet could not but be gay,
In such a jocund company:
I gazed -- and gazed -- but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.

William (and Dorothy) Wordsworth

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 25, 2008

mauricesempine said:
I suspect your preaching to the choir.

Mac

Maybe not, Mac. I would think a lot of Christian writers would have a conflict with having conflict in their story, simply because conflict would conflict with the get-along-with-each-other mentality that Christianity preaches.

Seriously, though, I know a lot of Christians who think conflict is something that stories need to have less of. I've heard several Christians say they wish books didn't have the conflict that they find in them.

But like James, and some of the others who have posted, I think fiction just doesn't work without conflict. I mean, there's an old saying: "The journey is more important than the destination." Yet I know several people, just in my building, who don't like reading fiction because there's, in their opinion, too much conflict.

It's sad, really, to think that people don't like the stuff of good fiction. But the fact is, a lot of people are that way.

So whether James is preaching to the choir or to the audience, his message is necessary to get some people to realize that fiction wouldn't be good without conflict.

--Sean

james1611 · Feb 26, 2008

Hmmm

Medievalist said:
I WANDER'D lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the Milky Way,
They stretch'd in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced; but they
Out-did the sparkling waves in glee:
A poet could not but be gay,
In such a jocund company:
I gazed -- and gazed -- but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.

William (and Dorothy) Wordsworth

Poetry yes...but can you imagine reading 300 pages...worth of this single poem?

...And of course we're talking about writing novels with this...but you know, some of the most engaging and intersting poetry I've ever read was chock full of conflict.

Sean has hit the nail on my point I think...Christians writers might tend to think that we must shy from conflict. But that cannot be the case if we're going to see Christian fiction grow in the market. Like many christian authors, I have stories to tell and desire to see that particular part of the market grow.

Sing choir sing!

James

Deleted member 42 · Feb 27, 2008

james1611 said:
Poetry yes...but can you imagine reading 300 pages...worth of this single poem?

Sure. It's called The Prelude.

It was, in fact, a set text, and I had to read multiple versions . . .

matdonna · Feb 27, 2008

excellent post, James.

Common newbie writer mistake-- scenes (especially at the start of a book or story) where the characters sit around drinking coffee or tea and chatting. Folks! Let's have some action! Doesn't have to be explosions, but it must be movement-- and tension!

james1611 · Feb 27, 2008

matdonna said:
excellent post, James.

Common newbie writer mistake-- scenes (especially at the start of a book or story) where the characters sit around drinking coffee or tea and chatting. Folks! Let's have some action! Doesn't have to be explosions, but it must be movement-- and tension!

Medi--I'm certainly not disrespecting poetry--but the idea is fiction novel writing that I'm addressing.

It was Jay Young who just shared the notes from the recent writer's conference they attended and one of the speakers discussing fiction made the same points. Get into the action quick! It was all about hooking the reader and pulling them drooling through the pages

Of course their is a difference between more literary writing, more introspection and less action, but I think, even then, that conflict is the meat of story. Whether it's "blowing up a Jeep"--hi bruce

--or wrestling with your inner demons over a mocha, conflict is the primary focus that keeps us "fiction readers" reading!

I suppose now would be a good time to hear opinions on "types of conflict" which work, how they work well and so forth?

blessings,
James

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 27, 2008

james1611 said:
I suppose now would be a good time to hear opinions on "types of conflict" which work, how they work well and so forth?

blessings,
James

I find the kind of conflict that works best for me, is a combination of internal (i.e. moral or mental) conflict, and external antagonists. I really, however, think the best conflict is what goes on inside a person's mind. In my novel WIP right now, my main antagonist is a righteous man turned wicked. He has issues heaped on him by others (external) but he goes on to debate whether or not he should repent at a later time when those external forces are removed (his internal conflict).

So to me, the outside conflicts are good. Blowing up cars and tanks and stuff, is nice, but it's like candy to me. Candy doesn't nourish. Meat and potatoes do. The meat and potatoes of my own mind -- what really gets me to enjoy a book -- are the debates within one's own self, where one side of you tries to justify doing wrong, while the other side of you fights to keep you going in the right direction.

--Sean

sassandgroove · Feb 27, 2008

james said:
This might seem like a strange idea for Christians, but when it comes to novel writing, CONFLICT is the meat of all that you will probably ever write.

Why? Do all Christians think alike? I am a Christian. I don't think having conflict in a story is a strange idea.

I do know that sometimes I make things to easy for a character and have to go back and add problems, etc. But that doesn't mean it is a strange idea to me, and I don't think it is because i am a Christian.

oscuridad · Feb 27, 2008

It isn't about types of conflict, surely, but the mistaken notion that conflict is by definition about violence. Conflict can be subtle and funny, or meaningful, or pointless - how conflict is used to serve your narrative is the key question. A character cannot grow without conflict.

Story = character, character = story, story = conflict, therefore conflict = character.

C. L. Richardson · Feb 27, 2008

Good advice. My WIP has so many threads of conflict I may have to rewrite it a hundred times just to see them all tied off at the end.

james1611 · Feb 27, 2008

oscuridad said:
It isn't about types of conflict, surely, but the mistaken notion that conflict is by definition about violence. Conflict can be subtle and funny, or meaningful, or pointless - how conflict is used to serve your narrative is the key question. A character cannot grow without conflict.

Story = character, character = story, story = conflict, therefore conflict = character.

A Wonderful point: Conflict does not have to necessarily involve violence! But it is the "struggle" the character must go through which often gives us as the reader a basis for caring about them...particularly when the reader is able to identify personally with that particular struggle.

Not everything we write has to be EPIC in scope. An epic is fun because the conflict seems so monumental....but more personal struggles often endear us to the character in a more genuine and satisfying way. :Hug2:

I'd be curious to see some of you give personal examples from your own writing, WIP, etc...something you put the character through that really made you love them or hate them...some struggle that really developed them in a pleasing way to you as the writer.

I'll start the ball rolling:
My latest protagonist, Ethan Hawk, has a special ability given by God which will ultimately enable him to fulfill a prophecy and restore a conquered kingdom. Through several chapters, Ethan is really gaining more confidence with his abilities and begins to feel self assured even though the power if given by God. He rushes ahead by himself, in one scene, against the admonishing of his friends and nearly gets himself killed. Ethan learns the hard way that "without the Lord, we can do nothing."

The scene has struggles between Ethan and: his friends, his faith, and God. He fails to accomplish the goal, but learns the valuable lesson. His failure now also serves to provide me with an inner struggle later in the story as he wrestles with fear of further failure.

Let's hear some of yours?

James

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 27, 2008

In my present project, my main protagonist, Jonathan Rahn, is thrust into a position of absolute power ... with one snag. He is required to go against everything he knows and be a ruthless, Stalin-like dictator. This is accomplished by the former dictator's aide, Joseph Karragh, who has been assigned to assassinate Rahn if he veers from the evil ways he is being forced to follow.

The conflict becomes personal when Jonathan Rahn himself becomes calloused and cold, and gets used to his vile ways. The work does have other characters and their struggles, but Jonathan Rahn has become especially, well, special to me, because he feels he is forced to be a bad guy, even after he gets the chance to change.

How he changes, and eventually wins the internal struggle to become a righteous man once again, really has been a blessing to write.

The story is intended for a secular audience -- the foul language probably would not set well with most Christian houses -- but the Gospel message is interwoven throughout it. I've noticed that with my manuscripts: they always seem to fall into place with a Gospel message, whether I intended it that way or not.

--Sean

BruceJ · Feb 28, 2008

sassandgroove said:
I am a Christian. I don't think having conflict in a story is a strange idea.

Agreed, Sass--and neither did Paul: "Romans 12:18 - If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men." and Ephesians 4:6 - Be angry, and yet do not sin (bold italics mine). Conflict is inevitable; it's what we do with it that's important in our lives as Christians as well as what we do with it in our fiction as writers. And you know that; don't mean to preach, just supporting your point.

Like James, I believe the challenge for the novelist is to weave conflict into the novel so it's believable, manageable and--in my opinion--resolvable. Wondering how it's going to be resolved is what keeps me turning the page and stepping around the burning hulks of jeeps (hi, James

) to get to the next one. If it doesn't, I'm left frustrated. I know there are others who don't care as much for the resolution, but that's okay.

oscuridad · Feb 28, 2008

this is really interesting, in my current YA there is physical conflict of a pretty violent kind, but the REAL conflict which drives the story is the protagonist's inner struggle with his own lack of self worth - the physical conflicts in essence being the backdrop to the internal conflict that is the story.

james1611 · Feb 28, 2008

layering, layering, layering

oscuridad said:
this is really interesting, in my current YA there is physical conflict of a pretty violent kind, but the REAL conflict which drives the story is the protagonist's inner struggle with his own lack of self worth - the physical conflicts in essence being the backdrop to the internal conflict that is the story.

This is one of those things that can very much enrich your storytelling! To have many layers to the struggle--a complex weave of conflicts which depend upon one another allowing for varied outcomes. "A symphony of complexities"
Afterall, the more you twist and turn, the more likely you might surprise your readers and keep them coming back for more. NOt many people want to read something transparent -- I'm pretty sure that most publishers want some measure of uniqueness woven with the familiar? I hope that's not too optimistic a statement

James

sassandgroove · Feb 28, 2008

JAmes, I am curious what you have to say regarding my post.

james1611 · Feb 29, 2008

sassandgroove said:
Why? Do all Christians think alike? I am a Christian. I don't think having conflict in a story is a strange idea.

I do know that sometimes I make things to easy for a character and have to go back and add problems, etc. But that doesn't mean it is a strange idea to me, and I don't think it is because i am a Christian.

You ask what I think of this post Sass?

My statement that it might seem strange is only reflective of Christians seeking peace--ie...peacemakers, passive, turning the other cheek, etc...
I only mean to contrast our "behavior" with our "fiction writing"

OUr behavior as it should be scripturally, though we don't always behave as we should

For example: many people think of Christians as sheep...that we cannot think for ourselves or that we are weak. Well what would a "sheep" be expected to write when it comes to fiction?
Perception I guess is the idea...or perhaps a question: Is it alright for me to write about this as a Christian? Will action, adventure, sci-fi, fantasy, intrigue or even elements of horror be acceptable?

Does that answer your question, Sass...I may have completely missed the mark?

James

sassandgroove · Feb 29, 2008

Well - I am trying to understand where you are coming from. It is a start.

I guess the tone of your post, to me, read that this was a new concept you had stumbled upon that no other Christian had thought of. I doubt you meant that way. I suspect it was something you had just realized and wanted to share. To be honest, at first I was mad, why did he post in the Christian forum, blah blah, why not the novel forum. BUt on reading other replies and thinking about it, you are right. It is a good thing to discuss from a Christian perspective, not just a story telling perspective.

I know that in my own story I tend to Pollyanna things a bit and have to go back and make it more real, which involves adding conflict.

And it is correct that not all conflict is violent.
But man, look at all the conflict in the bible. I think we're OK with conflict inour own stories. Fiction imitates life, so it wouldn't be real if we didn't include conflict in all its many forms.

Sheep: Do you mean that might be how non Christians few Christians. Because I view being part of God's flock as an honor, and that God is my caretaker and watches over me and I can depend on him when I need him, not that I cannot or will not think for myself.

Will action, adventure, sci-fi, fantasy, intrigue or even elements of horror be acceptable?

I've had similar conversations discussing 'Christian Rock' verses secular Rock, like U2. There are two sides to it. There is a place for Christian music. It ministers to believers, it provides a way to worship God away from church, in singing along, or meditating/praying with it or even just helping to keep God in front of everything else. But bands like U2, while they are Chrisitan, stand to reach a wider audience by not being a "Christian Band".

Look at C.S. Lewis or TOlkien. They wrote fantasy, but are both Christian. If you look at the subtext, there are definitely messages and influence. I think God wants us to use our gifts to the best of our ability. I don't think he's going to get hung up on the genre.

james1611 · Feb 29, 2008

I believe we are in agreement

Sass--

I believe we are in agreement here...and my reference to sheep...notice that Unbelievers view it as weakness, unthinking when they refer to believers in this way. Of course as Christians we see "sheep" as followers of the Great Sheperd who cares for us and gave his life for the sheep

My point is that Christian writers need not avoid as much as we might think we should...allow me to clarify. I don't think we should include things that are vulgar or that glorify sin in any way...but we can still explore as much as other writers of fiction. Of course I think it is important that our message always shine through...that our writing glorifies God...I'm a firm believer in my work having "Eternal Value" which means that I want to conform to a biblical standard. But a biblical standard doesn't mean that I have to shy away from Fantasy or sci-fi or other genres which normally aren't associated strongly with Christians. That said, I'm glad to see that the status is changing markedly...of course C.S. Lewis has paved much of the road in those genres early on and others like Dekker, Collins, Davis and Batson are making inroads...Have you read Wayne Batson's Pirate Novel "Isle of Swords" yet? A perfect example.
My current project is simply loaded with demons doing dastardly deeds of all sorts, from possession to open warfare in the spiritual realm...not exactly tame by any means. And yet nothing is written in an offensive manner either.

I thought about placing the thread in "writing novels" but I just felt as a christian writer that my point of view on conflict belonged here more. As I've mentioned before too: the bible is chock full of constant conflict--the VERY EPIC of conflicts in fact. And as you pointed out, we have no need, though peace loving, to "pollyanna" our way through potentially intense situations.

As agent maximus, Steve Laube, might intone, "Let's all go blow up a jeep!" for the Lord

blessings,
James

Sean D. Schaffer · Feb 29, 2008

I think an added conflict that really should be present in the majority of Christian novels, or even novels written by Christians for secular audiences, is that of sin versus righteousness. Faith versus fear is another, related one. As Christians, we sometimes face even more conflict in everyday life than the average person, in part because of the "New man" that Paul spoke about, that dwells alongside our "Old man" or our old nature.

These added conflicts, when added to a Christian-written novel, can really enhance the reader's understanding of quite a few things ... not the least of which is the constant struggle of believers to maintain their walk with the Lord. Some people have the idea that Christianity is a walk in the park, where everything's easy and good going. Of course, this just is not really the case, and so we can show people that, hey, Christians are ordinary people with just as ordinary problems as the average unbeliever.

So really, the conflict in a Christian-written book should be even more pronounced, IMO, because of the extra conflict between our old nature and our new nature. Presented properly, this could give people an insight into the Christian Faith that they might not think of under normal circumstances.

--Sean

sassandgroove · Mar 3, 2008

James, yes we agree, I just had to get over myself.

I worked in a Christian Bookstore briefly and grew tired of customers that wanted to be told how to think and flocked to badly written books. SOrry. I need to look at posts here at AW without that filter. Because we agree. We can glorify God in fiction and still have good conflict, etc.

CONFLICT SWEET CONFLICT

james1611

Robin Bayne

~writes for Him~

Sempine

james1611

Deleted member 42

Sean D. Schaffer

james1611

Deleted member 42

matdonna

matushka at large

james1611

Sean D. Schaffer

sassandgroove

Sassy haircut

oscuridad

C. L. Richardson

james1611

Sean D. Schaffer

BruceJ

Me and my Muse

oscuridad

james1611

sassandgroove

Sassy haircut

james1611

sassandgroove

Sassy haircut

james1611

Sean D. Schaffer

sassandgroove

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