Royal Navy Antagonist (17th-18th Century)

AZ_Dawn · Feb 24, 2008

My protagonists are pirates. They're jerks with a few scruples, but they're still jerks. Which leaves me with a strange problem: how to best vilify their chief antagonist. I have a basic personality for him (arrogant, stern, and obsessive-compulsive), but I'm at a loss as to how to make him "villainous" enough when the protagonists aren't exactly Captain Feathersword. He's also a Royal Navy captain, which puts a limit on what he can do. After all, you can't torch a port village without the Admirality taking offense! His "villainy" also has to be subtle enough to be lost on the ship's chaplain.

Any advice? Just keep it PG, please. Thanks!

dpaterso · Feb 24, 2008

The simple fact of his hanging captured pirates from the yard-arm without trial might do the trick. To him it's legal justice well within his jurisdiction, to them it's bloody murder. Easy to hate and villify a man who hangs your pals on sight. Just a thought.

-Derek

Zelenka · Feb 24, 2008

You could show the way he treats his own crew? Just make him a real piece of work in terms of being a stickler for discipline, picking up on the tiniest offences etc. Or else, if it's possible (as I don't know if you're setting your story entirely aboard ship or if you have some scenes maybe back in England) you could show his private life. Even if you don't show his homelife, you could always have the other sailors / officers gossiping about it.

First thing that comes to mind though is the film 'The Patriot' (and not just because of my Jason Isaacs obsession

) as in that, the character of Colonel Tavington is supposed to go overboard when carrying out his orders on the field and is pulled up for it by Cornwallis a few times. You could have a similar situation where he's sent to deal with the pirates but kind of shows too much enthusiasm?

donroc · Feb 24, 2008

He could hang an innocent kidnaped boy.

pdr · Feb 24, 2008

Or...

He could hang an innocent kidnaped boy.

Or not believe a hostage woman and allow the crew to treat her as a prostitute. (This has happened in a pirate situation I believe, but I can't find a source for you.)

dpaterso · Feb 25, 2008

Variant on the above, a cabin boy captured along with other pirates. No mercy, they all swing. By Morgan's beard, I hate the scum already!

-Derek

waylander · Feb 25, 2008

A thieving rotter who does his subordinates out of their share of the prize money when they take a ship?

donroc · Feb 25, 2008

And buggered the boy first.

From FRIGGIN' IN THE RIGGIN'

"The cabin boy,
The Cabin boy,
That plucky little NIPPER,
He lined his ass
with broken glass,
And Circumcised the skipper."

Sarpedon · Feb 25, 2008

Watch "Mutiny on the Bounty."

AZ_Dawn · Feb 25, 2008

Thanks, guys! This is certainly food for thought. Though if he wants to hang anyone, he'd have to catch 'em first. :wag:

dpaterso said:
Easy to hate and villify a man who hangs your pals on sight.

So true, though I was thinking more along the lines of villifying him for the readers.

JessRamage said:
You could show the way he treats his own crew? Just make him a real piece of work in terms of being a stickler for discipline, picking up on the tiniest offences etc. Or else, if it's possible (as I don't know if you're setting your story entirely aboard ship or if you have some scenes maybe back in England) you could show his private life. Even if you don't show his homelife, you could always have the other sailors / officers gossiping about it.

That first part definitely sounds like him! I also had the idea he could be an unfaithful husband, but I wasn't sure if it would matter in the stories or not.

pdr said:
Or not believe a hostage woman and allow the crew to treat her as a prostitute.

I don't think his villany lies in that area; it doesn't sound very PG, either. That said, he might not be above offering the female pirates a way out of the noose. :e2brows:

donroc said:
And buggered the boy first.

That's not PG! Besides, I get the feeling he'd be anti-gay well beyond the point of homophobia.

waylander said:
A thieving rotter who does his subordinates out of their share of the prize money when they take a ship?

They got to keep the money when they captured a pirate ship? I'll have to look into that.

waylander · Feb 25, 2008

AZ_Dawn said:
They got to keep the money when they captured a pirate ship? I'll have to look into that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prize_money

http://www.hms.org.uk/nelsonsnavyprize.htm

donroc · Feb 25, 2008

Anti-gay villain is more PC than a buggering villain, which I believe, was the norm. But I may be wrong.

AZ_Dawn · Feb 25, 2008

Thanks for the links, Waylander!

By the way, Donroc, I think you're right that anti-gay was PC for the time. It's pretty much a non-issue, though, since I don't have any gay characters.

Histry Nerd · Feb 25, 2008

Hey, AZ. I'll second what the others have said about making him ruthless. You could even give him a particularly brutal MO for dealing with a pirate crew--instead of hanging the survivors from his yardarm, he hangs them from their own--and sinks the ship (after looting it, of course) with them hanging there. By their necks, if he's feeling merciful. By their feet if not. He can justify sending seaworthy ships to the bottom by condemning them along with the crews. Maybe he keeps the figureheads for souvenirs.

AZ_Dawn said:
His "villainy" also has to be subtle enough to be lost on the ship's chaplain.

I don't think you need subtlety here. An 18th-century ship's chaplain would be far from a meek little padre. Make the skipper a fanatic who justifies his brutal acts by invoking God's will, word, pleasure, etc.--and give the chaplain the same leanings and sympathies. After all, the captain would have had some discretion in selecting his officers and crew; it's reasonable he would choose a chaplain with the same sympathies, if such was available.

Hope this helps.
HN

AZ_Dawn · Feb 26, 2008

More food for thought! Thanks, Histry Nerd!

Histry Nerd said:
I don't think you need subtlety here. An 18th-century ship's chaplain would be far from a meek little padre.

I didn't realize that. Then again, I've been hanging around those "meek little padres" too much.

Okay, so they're not so meek, but they tend to be a bit naive about evil people.

Sarpedon · Feb 26, 2008

And on a british ship, he'd certainly be protestant (the chaplain, along with everyone else). You should read some of those puritanical sermons from the same time period to get the right kind of flavor.

Here's a link to Edward's famous sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God."http://edwards.yale.edu/major-works/sinners-in-the-hands-of-an-angry-god/

Now, its true that these were american puritans, and english would be (slightly) more liberal, perhaps, but it might make an amusing and authentic enough character.

AZ_Dawn · Feb 27, 2008

Sarpedon said:
And on a british ship, he'd certainly be protestant (the chaplain, along with everyone else). You should read some of those puritanical sermons from the same time period to get the right kind of flavor.

I would've thought the chaplain would be Anglican rather than Puritan. Still, I bet Anglican priests could've gotten fire-and-brimstony, too.

Sarpedon · Feb 27, 2008

Yeah I know. I just have never read any anglican sermons from the period.

And I did mention that there was a difference

Captain Scarf · Feb 27, 2008

*Enter British Military and Naval Historian - looks around and frowns thoughtfully*

You might want to have a read of Safeguard of the Sea and Command of the Ocean by N.A.M Rodger - they should answer any questions about the Royal Navy (including anti-piracy operations)

For shipboard life read The Wooden World also by Prof Rodger

Why are the British always the bad guys? We're really very nice people. All we wanted to do was maintain control of large pieces of real estate in the Americas, is that so wrong?

Sarpedon · Feb 28, 2008

See, thats where you go wrong!

Bad guys maintain control. Good Guys maintain law and order, and suppress terrorists.

(the irony is strong)

tallus83 · Feb 28, 2008

"To rule the waves" by Arthur Herman goes into detail as to the RNs handling of pirates and captured ships. Basically it's a history of the RN, but does deal in detail about the years you want to know about.

AZ_Dawn · Feb 28, 2008

Captain Scarf said:
Why are the British always the bad guys? We're really very nice people. All we wanted to do was maintain control of large pieces of real estate in the Americas, is that so wrong?

Well, the U.S.S.R. wasn't around back then, so...

Seriously, my pirates wouldn't care if he was English, Spanish, French, or Klingon; he's on a mission to hunt down pirates and they don't like that!
But he needs to be bad because I won't have a "good cop" being constantly one-upped by the criminals. :guns:

girlyswot · Feb 28, 2008

AZ_Dawn said:
I would've thought the chaplain would be Anglican rather than Puritan. Still, I bet Anglican priests could've gotten fire-and-brimstony, too.

Puritan=Anglican for most of the seventeenth century. If you're into the late seventeenth and eighteenth century then Anglican is more mixed though certainly still some who fit the Puritan mould.

Higgins · Feb 29, 2008

AZ_Dawn said:
My protagonists are pirates. They're jerks with a few scruples, but they're still jerks. Which leaves me with a strange problem: how to best vilify their chief antagonist. I have a basic personality for him (arrogant, stern, and obsessive-compulsive), but I'm at a loss as to how to make him "villainous" enough when the protagonists aren't exactly Captain Feathersword. He's also a Royal Navy captain, which puts a limit on what he can do. After all, you can't torch a port village without the Admirality taking offense! His "villainy" also has to be subtle enough to be lost on the ship's chaplain.

Any advice? Just keep it PG, please. Thanks!

Why can't their antagonists be other pirates or the Spanish or the French or the Dutch or the Swedes or some cannibals or renegade Aztecs?

AZ_Dawn · Feb 29, 2008

Higgins said:
Why can't their antagonists be other pirates or the Spanish or the French or the Dutch or the Swedes or some cannibals or renegade Aztecs?

Maybe I should've used the term "recurring villain" instead of "chief antagonist"; that might've made things clearer.

In the first story (yes, it's a Tales of book), one of his sailors jumps ship and ends up joining the pirates. When he tries to retrieve the deserter he sees a pirate he had met when he was a mere midshipman, and the memories aren't happy. He's got a personal grudge against 2 of the pirates; it would be a shame to waste all that grudge for a one-shot character.

Those guys you mentioned are antagonists, too (except that I hadn't thought about the Swedes, Aztecs, and cannibals). In this set of tales they're some of the minor antagonists. If I do a sequel, one of them might be the recurring villain in it.

Royal Navy Antagonist (17th-18th Century)

AW Addict

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Going home!

Historicals and Horror rule

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

Who's going for a beer?

Historicals and Horror rule

AW Addict

Who's going for a beer?

Historicals and Horror rule

AW Addict

Moving Forward!

AW Addict

AW Addict

Smart-casual Ninja

AW Addict

AW Addict