this year's OSCAR show and...

Not many Best Picture nominees or winners are bona fide blockbusters. Oscars and "box office champs" don't usually match -- that's why we don't usually see summer hits on the Oscar ballots, and "Oscar baits" usually come out in the Fall, a slower season in movie terms.

Juno is popular because it's light, funny, with a happy ending. That's very different from the usual "heavy" Oscar-worthy dramas. Personally I'm not totally sure why Juno was up for Best Picture, but that's my opinion.

Of course there are box office champs that went on to become Best Picture? Why stop at those five? How about Titanic and Lord of the Rings? The Departed? Chicago (which made $170 million)?

By the way, As Good As It Gets didn't win Best Picture. It won Best Actor (Jack Nicholson) and Actress (Helen Hunt).


Domestic box office so far:
There Will Be Blood ($32 million)
Michael Clayton ($47 million)
Atonement ($48 million)
No Country for Old Man ($61 million)
Juno ($101 million)

So while 4 out of 5 are not so-called "blockbusters" they're not necessarily failures either.

maestrowork said:

Juno is popular because it's light, funny, with a happy ending. That's very different from the usual "heavy" Oscar-worthy dramas. Personally I'm not totally sure why Juno was up for Best Picture, but that's my opinion.

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I think it deserved the nomination. Good film, sneaks up on you with its tremendous heart, although I thought Waitress was every bit as good and had better supporting performances.

The original poster's comment goes back to that age-old adage in the arts (not just in Hollywood): what the critics like, the masses hate. That isn't always true, of course, but there certainly is something to be said in the subtext of Oscar nominations about American culture, what sells in the culture, and what a "good movie" actually is.

I think about this dilemma a lot. Why do movies that are well-made, well-crafted and well-written often fail to make money? A few people walked out of No Country for Old Men when I was watching it, but I thought it was brilliant. That's strange, isn't it?

(I'm not, I realize, into what most Americans are into film-wise. I wouldn't watch Jumper (America's #1 movie) if someone paid me.)

Interesting idea for a poll, NikeeGoddess. I love lists. And I'm a bit of a stickler for details.

So, I guess I'm wondering where you got this as a top five. These aren't the top five grossing Best Picture winners. Or are these your personal top five that topped 100 million domestically?

Sigh. OK, I feel like a bit of douchebag here, but I did mention I'm a stickler.

Titanic and LOTR: Return of the King both made more money than Forrest Gump.

Then, you need to slip in Saving Private Ryan and Gone With the Wind in front of Gladiator.

Dances With Wolves, Rain Man, A Beautiful Mind, Chicago, The Sound of Music -- all those films topped As Good As It Gets

Other 100 million Oscar winners in the range of American Beauty and Silence of the Lambs: Shakespeare in Love, Million Dollar Baby, Driving Miss Daisy, Terms of Endearment, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Rocky, The Departed and Platoon.

OK, I'll stop now. I'm sure I've missed some. Did I mention I have obsessive tendencies too?

EDIT: I saw Maestrowork's post after I posted. Good catch on As Good As It Gets. I guess I'm not such a stickler. OK, now I'm going to pay attention to my kids instead of AW.

80% of the general public don't understand fine arts. Great movies are sometimes like fine arts. A lot of Americans often look for entertainment and not "thought-provoking" or profound.

I will have to disagree on Juno -- I think it's a nice film, with a lot of heart and witty dialogue. But it's not original, the story line and characters are actually rather cliched (ooh, an uptight control-freak mother-to-be!). It's sweet, but not thought-provoking enough. It has by-the-book cinematography and production value, etc. It's not at all in the same league as, say, No Country for Old Men or There Will be Blood or Atonement. Like you said, the Waitress was actually better, as is Knocked Up, which deal with similar topics (unexpected/unwanted pregnancy/relationship, etc.) So I really don't know why Juno's up there instead. It's all about hype.

mikeland said:

EDIT: I saw Maestrowork's post after I posted. Good catch on As Good As It Gets. I guess I'm not such a stickler. OK, now I'm going to pay attention to my kids instead of AW.

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Saving Private Ryan also didn't win Best Picture.

NikeeGoddess said:

these were the top five money grossing flicks that were also oscar nominees.
so maybe those other flicks you've mentioned are worthy but they didn't make as much money as these five..

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But why did you list As Good as It Gets? It a) didn't win Best Picture, and b) only made $148 million. There are plenty of other Best Picture WINNERS that actually made more: Titanic, Lord of the Rings, Chicago, to name a few. So I wonder why you put AGAIG up there.

Even the Departed made $137 million and it actually won. If we're going to list nominees then the list will be REALLY long.

If we're going to list nominees then the list will be REALLY long. So to answer the question: yes, you can have a great, quality award-worthy movie and still make a lot of money.

Actually your figures are off.. See my post #2.

So, they are not necessarily box office duds. And the biggest box office champs don't necessarily win (e.g Clash won over Brokeback Mountain). Sometimes they do (Chicago, for example).

maestrowork said:

Saving Private Ryan also didn't win Best Picture.

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Yikes. OK, stickler is officially off my resume. I'll just stick with obsessive.

Now, where did those kids go?

I have to say I find it odd in general the people who complain that movies today suck. They go on and on about how poor most of the major blockbusters are, how stupid they are, how poorly written and performed etc. And then when you point out the nominated films for this year and how they kind of don't suck, and actually demonstrate the the film industry today is still producing some really unique and challenging stuff, they say something like, "Yeah but those films are boring." (not that they have actually seen any of them)

I don't get people. I just don't.

(kind of off topic, sorry, I just had that conversation the other day and it was weird)

If it was up to me I'd just give Ratatouille all the Oscars and have done with it. Ratatouille was the high point of an otherwise cruddy movie year. I suspect at least part of the lack of excitement about the Oscars is that there weren't very many good movies released in 2007. Even the big ones that everyone was all excited about (Pirates of the Car. and Spiderman 3 particularly) were duds.

I thought Juno was quite well written and acted. It certainly deserves the nomination, although I suspect it won't win. Movies with happy endings usually don't, seems like.

Last year was all hype and no delivery. I'm hoping 2008 is a little better.

ETA: Oh, and I didn't vote on the poll because I don't like any of those movies. Gladiator was especially HORRIBLE, one of my all-time least favorite movies EVAR.

Have you seen any of the other nominated films? Have you seen "Away From Her", "I'm Not There", "Persepolis", "Once", "Sweeney Todd"?

I'm not saying you aren't making a call based on experience (how would I know), you are more than free to loathe any of those movies I have just mentioned including the top five nominees, and if your conclusion is based on having seen all these movies too, not just big ones, then you definitely have your opinion. I guess the thing for me is I was really impressed by the crop of films this year, there was some real quality that came out. Again, that is simply my opinion versus yours. There is no real debate here, lol! Still to me 2007 rocked for movies. Maybe it wasn't as hot for blockbusters, but blockbusters don't corner the market in movies.

Oh and I agree, "Rataouille" should be given every award totally! That movie was brilliant!

(and don't count out Juno just yet for the happy ending, it is rare, but let's not forget that Shakespeare in Love did win!)

Saanen said:

If it was up to me I'd just give Ratatouille all the Oscars and have done with it. Ratatouille was the high point of an otherwise cruddy movie year. I suspect at least part of the lack of excitement about the Oscars is that there weren't very many good movies released in 2007. Even the big ones that everyone was all excited about (Pirates of the Car. and Spiderman 3 particularly) were duds.

I thought Juno was quite well written and acted. It certainly deserves the nomination, although I suspect it won't win. Movies with happy endings usually don't, seems like.

Last year was all hype and no delivery. I'm hoping 2008 is a little better.

ETA: Oh, and I didn't vote on the poll because I don't like any of those movies. Gladiator was especially HORRIBLE, one of my all-time least favorite movies EVAR.

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You honestly, honestly didn't like "As Good As It Gets" or "American Beauty?" Seriously?

I haven't seen "Ratatouille" so that doesn't give me much insight into your tastes, but I'm really curious as to what other films you actually think highly of. Care to share?

Toothpaste said:

Have you seen any of the other nominated films? Have you seen "Away From Her", "I'm Not There", "Persepolis", "Once", "Sweeney Todd"?

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What, me? No, I haven't seen every movie released last year, just the ones I was interested in. I did think there were some good movies in 2007--in addition to Ratatouille, I liked 3:10 to Yuma, Stomp the Yard, Meet the Robinsons, Hairspray, The Simpsons Movie, and I thought the Harry Potter movie, The Golden Compass, I Am Legend, and Bourne Ultimatum weren't bad either. Everything else I saw was pretty much a howling misery, but maybe it's because I had to review Epic Movie early in the year and couldn't get the taste out of my brain for months. That was the worst. movie. ever. I wanted to gouge my eyeballs out while I was watching it. And yet, I had to endure.

Sorry, I seem to have wandered off topic a bit. I do agree with you that it's not possible to really judge a movie without having seen it. On the other hand, it's just not possible to see every movie released--and since I'm not doing reviews anymore (thank gawd), I don't have to try. There are some movies I missed last year that I want to catch on DVD, like Michael Clayton, and in fact I only just saw Juno the other week. Any other recommendations for must-sees?

chartreuse said:

You honestly, honestly didn't like "As Good As It Gets" or "American Beauty?" Seriously?

I haven't seen "Ratatouille" so that doesn't give me much insight into your tastes, but I'm really curious as to what other films you actually think highly of. Care to share?

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Ah, well, American Beauty wasn't actually bad, it just isn't the kind of movie I like. I found it depressing and drab, but obviously that's just me. I know I've seen As Good As It Gets, but I swear it made so little impression on me I can barely remember it.

I like animation, actually, ranging from unfathomably weird anime to stupid kid's movies, as long as the artwork is good. So I'm not a typical movie-goer, I guess.

Then, to offer a recommendation since you asked, check out "Persepolis" if you like animation. The story is a bit disjointed, but the animation is just lovely (and it is going up against Ratatouille, should be interesting to see what happens).

NikeeGoddess said:

actually, here's the real list - just not my list LOL!
Oscar History: Top-Grossing Oscar Winners
The Highest-Grossing Oscar Winners in The U.S.

Titanic (1997), 600.8

Forrest Gump (1994), 329.7

Gone with the Wind (1939), 198.6

Gladiator (2000), 187.7

Dances With Wolves (1990), 184.2

Chicago (2002), 174.0

Rain Man (1988), 172.8

A Beautiful Mind (2001), 170.8

The Sting (1973), 156.0

Platoon (1986), 138.5

The Godfather (1972), 135.0

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Where's LOTR-Return of the King? I think it should be #2 after Titanic and before Forrest Gump.

It's hard to be truly excited about the Oscars when you haven't seen the majority of the nominated films. I have a hard time seeing at least three movies that are ultinately nominated for the biggest Oscars. This year's no exception, because I saw There Will Be Blood, but not the others.

Saanen said:

Ah, well, American Beauty wasn't actually bad, it just isn't the kind of movie I like. I found it depressing and drab, but obviously that's just me. I know I've seen As Good As It Gets, but I swear it made so little impression on me I can barely remember it.

I like animation, actually, ranging from unfathomably weird anime to stupid kid's movies, as long as the artwork is good. So I'm not a typical movie-goer, I guess.

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Thanks for the clarification.

I'm not a huge fan of animation myself, other than things like Waking Life and A Scanner Darkly. (Do those even count?)

WannabeWriter said:

It's hard to be truly excited about the Oscars when you haven't seen the majority of the nominated films. I have a hard time seeing at least three movies that are ultinately nominated for the biggest Oscars. This year's no exception, because I saw There Will Be Blood, but not the others.

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That's one more than I've seen. I tried to rent Michael Clayton the other day, but it was out. I really wish that they'd release them all on DVD at least a month before the Oscars. We just don't go out to the theater that much.

I have seen Away from Her, and one or two of the others that have nominees.

But no matter, I'm still excited. Looking forward to Jon Stewart hosting, and it's just generally a fun time. I'm going to get offline soon and start plowing through all my "must-do's" for the day. Got a six-pack of Rogue Dead Guy Ale and we're ordering Indian food for dinner, so I can concentrate on the show.

I think Michael Clayton is the only nominated film I saw.

Toothpaste said:

Then, to offer a recommendation since you asked, check out "Persepolis" if you like animation. The story is a bit disjointed, but the animation is just lovely (and it is going up against Ratatouille, should be interesting to see what happens).

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I almost saw Persepolis today--it's on my to-watch list--but went to see Be Kind Rewind instead. It was very good! Not what I expected, but I liked it a lot.