Toshiba concedes!

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 18, 2008

The format wars are finally over. Toshiba on February 16th announced they are halting production of all HD-DVD equipment.

We can all go out and buy with confidence.

Here's the AP story.

And I blogged about it here.

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2008

That's a shame. I like HD-DVD. And I really dislike how SONY wants to shove their proprietary crap down our throats, even though Blu-Ray may seem superior and is now embraced by most studios... still, there's a principle thing...

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 18, 2008

When this started, I thought HD-DVD was the better of the two. But then I think many people thought Betamax was the better of those two formats.

The best doesn't always win.

This time I guess Sony wanted to ensure their format won.

Microsoft never really seemed to be fully supportive of the whole thing. They certainly could have swayed things their way if they'd put more money into the battle, ya know?

What proprietary crap are you talking about, Ray?

benbradley · Feb 18, 2008

Can I toss out my BetaMax recorder now?

Zelenka · Feb 18, 2008

I'm getting a blu-ray player (or probably a PS3, not sure though whether to go for that or just the straight player) but I have an HD-DVD player as well. I kind of suspected it would be obsolete fairly soon, but thing is, the blu-ray thing was £300+, whereas the HD was £100. Couldn't afford the blu-ray but I wanted to use my HD TV and actually see it work, so I just got the cheap HD player and a couple of DVDs.

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 18, 2008

Ah. I haven't bought my HDTV yet. I'm still a little peeved that the government is forcing us in that direction.

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
Ah. I haven't bought my HDTV yet. I'm still a little peeved that the government is forcing us in that direction.

I'm not. I love HD-TV. And the prices are coming down quickly as well. I can get a 42" now for 1/3 the price I paid 3 years ago. It's amazing.

Zelenka · Feb 18, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
Ah. I haven't bought my HDTV yet. I'm still a little peeved that the government is forcing us in that direction.

My old Sony TV died after many years' good service, which was why I lashed out and bought an HD one. They are much cheaper than I expected. I got a 26" in the end for a very reasonable price. I do love it though and ended up getting the dvd and a subscription to Sky's HD satellite channels.

The thing I kind of object to is that over here we'll eventually be forced to go digital, as the analogue signals won't be broadcast. But then since I have digital TV now, it's kind of academic, I suppose. Still, just something about the government dictating which sort of TV I should get and making us get more expensive equipment whilst rendering the stuff we have obsolete just irks me.

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 18, 2008

Well, that's what I mean. Every station will not be broadcasting in analog here and we'll all either have to get an HDTV, a converter, or some sort of subscription service that has a converter included.

We just bought a couple new non-HD TVs a few years ago when the power company had a hiccough and blew out all our TVs, so I'm a little angry on that end, too. TVs should last nearly a lifetime and now I'm having to go out and get some new ones if I want to enjoy the new broadcasts.

Thank goodness for Bush's rebate check.

maestrowork said:
I'm not. I love HD-TV. And the prices are coming down quickly as well. I can get a 42" now for 1/3 the price I paid 3 years ago. It's amazing.

That's why we didn't go HD then, the prices were too high. Now they're almost reasonable, but still, I'll wait until a 42" is under $500.

chartreuse · Feb 18, 2008

Quite happy here with my 19-inch regular television and the cheap little VHS-DVD combo player. Only got the latter when the video store stopped carrying movies in VHS format.

Won't upgrade to anything else till we're forced to again. In the meantime I'll just enjoy my wallet full of cash and being debt-free.

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 18, 2008

chartreuse said:
Quite happy here with my 19-inch regular television and the cheap little VHS-DVD combo player. Only got the latter when the video store stopped carrying movies in VHS format.

Won't upgrade to anything else till we're forced to again. In the meantime I'll just enjoy my wallet full of cash and being debt-free.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting that you should go into debt to keep up with the latest in frivoulous technology.

But be prepared, now that Blu-Ray has won out, the video stores, like Blockbuster, will be starting to stock more and more Blu-Ray titles and less and less regular DVDs, just as you can hardly find VHS now.

The stores will all be moving toward Blu-Ray for new releases. Why? Because the film companies make more money off of Blu-Ray then they will on regular dvd.

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
We just bought a couple new non-HD TVs a few years ago when the power company had a hiccough and blew out all our TVs, so I'm a little angry on that end, too. TVs should last nearly a lifetime and now I'm having to go out and get some new ones if I want to enjoy the new broadcasts.

You're showing your age.. when TV lasted forever (or from 1952 to 1976).

I mean, we don't expect our cars to run forever... The new HD TV has a life expectancy of 20 years. I really don't expect any TV lasting that long... I certainly have never owned a TV set for more than 20 years.

But be prepared, now that Blu-Ray has won out, the video stores, like Blockbuster, will be starting to stock more and more Blu-Ray titles and less and less regular DVDs, just as you can hardly find VHS now.

I don't think HD will replace regular DVDs soon. Eventually, yes, but not soon. Most people are still just adapting to DVDs (from VHS) just a few years ago. They're not going to switch to HD just yet, although the new HD players can play both. The $100 XBox player, for example, really is a bargain. As HD becoming more and more affordable (the price point is very close to regular DVD), you will see DVD in the range of around $10 and HD in the previous DVD price range (around $20). The quality is so good, though, that people will eventually switch over. There were a lot of naysayers about DVDs just five years ago, and now virtually no one sells or buys VHS anymore.

And I mean, why buy VHS when you can get DVD for $9 and the players cost only $49? I mean, lord, do people still like to rewind tapes?

chartreuse · Feb 18, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
I don't believe anyone is suggesting that you should go into debt to keep up with the latest in frivoulous technology.

But be prepared, now that Blu-Ray has won out, the video stores, like Blockbuster, will be starting to stock more and more Blu-Ray titles and less and less regular DVDs, just as you can hardly find VHS now.

The stores will all be moving toward Blu-Ray for new releases. Why? Because the film companies make more money off of Blu-Ray then they will on regular dvd.

Oh, believe me, I know. Capitalism demands that they find a way to "motivate" us to constantly buy new "stuff."

If they can't motivate us through manipulating us to think that something is a necessity - like cell phones (which I don't own, BTW), then they simply eliminate the old product and force us to upgrade, even though the old product still works fine.

Meanwhile, landfills are full of the now-obsolete must-haves of the past few years, bleeding tons of toxic chemicals that end up in our air, water and food. Guess that's capitalism's version of recycling.

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 18, 2008

maestrowork said:
You're showing your age.. when TV lasted forever (or from 1952 to 1976). I mean, we don't expect our cars to run forever... The new HD TV has a life expectancy of 20 years. I really don't expect any TV lasting that long... I certainly have never owned a TV set for more than 20 years.

Our 19" was almost 20 when the power company fried it.

When I was a child (showing my age), my parents brought home a new 19" Zenith black and white. That lasted a good 25 years until I came home from the Navy and realized they still were watching TV in black and white and I bought my mom a new color TV. Which she just replaced after another 20 years with a new one.

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
Our 19" was almost 20 when the power company fried it.

When I was a child (showing my age), my parents brought home a new 19" Zenith black and white. That lasted a good 25 years until I came home from the Navy and realized they still were watching TV in black and white and I bought my mom a new color TV. Which she just replaced after another 20 years with a new one.

That's how I felt with my parents -- I went visit and they were still watching their 19" color TV. So I got them a cheap 32" LCD HD-TV. They never wanted to go back!

childeroland · Feb 18, 2008

Why did Blu-Ray win out? Just because of Sony's muscle, companies fearing Microsoft, is Blu-Ray actually superior? If so, in what way?

Shadow_Ferret · Feb 18, 2008

childeroland said:
Why did Blu-Ray win out? Just because of Sony's muscle, companies fearing Microsoft, is Blu-Ray actually superior? If so, in what way?

Microsoft was behind HD-DVD, not Blu-Ray. They even included it (somewhat) with their X-BOx 360.

And it won in a long complicated struggle. Blu-Ray just was able to get more and more important studios to sign on. Then when Best Buy and Wal-Mart signed on...

Toshiba was losing out on movie rights and distributors.

Here's the two compared: Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2008

They're both high-dev so the quality is very comparable. You can fit more info into a Blu-Ray disc. I believe Blu-Ray can hold up to 50GB per disc vs. 35GB for HD-DVD.

Blu-Ray basically has more support from BIG players such as Panasonic, Apple, Mitsubishi, DreamWorks, etc. I think the turning point was when Disney decided to only support Blu-Ray and not HD-DVD... I think that's a proverbial coffin for HD.

Here's some more technical info:

General Specifications - Blu-ray:

Storage Capacity - Pre-recorded Playback Material (BD-ROM): Single-layer (25GB) - Dual-layer (50GB)

Storage Capacity: Home Recording (BD-R/BD-RE): Single-layer (25GB) - Dual-layer (50GB)

Data Transfer Rate: 36 to 48 MBPS (Megabits per Second) average - capable of up to 54 MPS - This exceeds the 19.3 Mbps transfer rate approved for HDTV broadcasts.

Disc Properties: New format requiring retooling and/or construction of new disc manufacturing and replication plants.

Video Specifications: Compatible with full MPEG2 Encoding, as well as MPEG4 and VC1.

Audio Specifications: Only Dolby Digital, DTS, and Uncompressed PCM are required on all players. However, the following formats are optional - Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD.

Network Capability: Although the Blu-ray format supports networking and internet capabilities, built-in networking and ethernet ports on individual Blu-ray Disc Players is optional.

General Specifications - HD-DVD

Storage Capacity - Pre-recorded playback material (HD-DVD-ROM): Single-layer (15GB) - Dual-layer (30GB) - Triple Layer (51GB - pending)

Storage Capacity - Home Recording (HD-DVD-R/HD-DVD-Rewritable): Single-layer (20GB) - Dual-Sided Disc (40GB) - Dual Layer (35GB - proposed).

Data Transfer Rate: 36 MBPS (Megabits per Second) - This exceeds the 19.3 Mbps transfer rate approved for HDTV broadcasts.

Disc Properties: Format similar to existing DVD disc structure, requiring minimal upgrading and retooling of existing DVD disc manufacturing and replication plants.

Video Specifications: Compatible with MPEG2, MPEG4, and VC1 Encoding.

Audio Specifications: All HD-DVD players are required to incorporate the following - Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, and Uncompressed PCM, as well as standard Dolby Digital and DTS.

Network Capability: All HD-DVD players are required to be network enabled and be equipped with a built-in Ethernet port for downloading firmware updates and other interactive features.

childeroland · Feb 18, 2008

Thanks for this info.

Makes me wonder what this means for Playstation 3, since the console wasn't supposed to mean much in the format war, and if Microsoft will give up pushing HD-DVD now (seems odd, but some articles I've read don't seem sure). They never seemed as enthusiastic about it as Sony is about Blu-Ray, did they? I hear they're even offering a Blu-Ray drive for the Xbox 360 around May!

clockwork · Feb 18, 2008

maestrowork said:
They're both high-dev so the quality is very comparable. You can fit more info into a Blu-Ray disc. I believe Blu-Ray can hold up to 50GB per disc vs. 35GB for HD-DVD.

Blu-Ray basically has more support from BIG players such as Panasonic, Apple, Mitsubishi, DreamWorks, etc. I think the turning point was when Disney decided to only support Blu-Ray and not HD-DVD... I think that's a proverbial coffin for HD.

Here's some more technical info:

I think it also may have something to do with Wal-Mart announcing they will only stock Blu-Ray players and DVDs after June of this year. Talk about influence. I'd have called the format war over with that development alone.

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2008

It depends on the price point. PS3 is crap, and the Blu-Ray add-on cost $300, meanwhile the HD-DVD for XBox was $100. Very attractive. I love mine. And if XBox is coming out with a Blu-Ray player for about the same price, PS3 will die.

maestrowork · Feb 18, 2008

clock_work9 said:
I think it also may have something to do with Wal-Mart announcing they will only stock Blu-Ray players and DVDs after June of this year. Talk about influence. I'd have called the format war over with that development alone.

Personally I think Wal-Mart's influence is not as big as you think. Their customer base isn't really that high-end to begin with. However, Wal-Mart's decision is a direct reflection of the studio's lack of support for HD-DVD, and Disney was a major influence there -- Disney has a HUGE stakes in the HD market.

johnnysannie · Feb 18, 2008

Shadow_Ferret said:
Our 19" was almost 20 when the power company fried it.

When I was a child (showing my age), my parents brought home a new 19" Zenith black and white. That lasted a good 25 years until I came home from the Navy and realized they still were watching TV in black and white and I bought my mom a new color TV. Which she just replaced after another 20 years with a new one.

I'll be showing my age too but my parents still have a 13 black and white set that my grandmother bought new from Monkey Wards in 1971. I took it with me to college in '79; my brother took it to college with him in '84. Although it doesn't get much use now, it still plays and the picture is still clear. My kids sometimes watch it for the novelty of black and white when they go to the grandparents. It is a RCA back when that meant more than it does now.

But that was then, this is now and in fourteen years of marriage, my husband and I are on our third big (32 inch) set that we've owned together!

MattW · Feb 18, 2008

Blu-ray will be obsolete when they begin beaming media directly onto the back of your eyelids while you sleep.

I called it first.

childeroland · Feb 18, 2008

Actually, some folks are holding back on discs altogether for fear they'll be left behind by high-speed download technology. George Lucas and Rick McCallum have been talking about beaming films to theaters via satellite technology for years.

MattW said:
Blu-ray will be obsolete when they begin beaming media directly onto the back of your eyelids while you sleep.

I called it first.

Toshiba concedes!

Court Jester

Fear the Death Ray

Court Jester

It's a doggy dog world

Going home!

Court Jester

Fear the Death Ray

Going home!

Court Jester

Court Jester

Fear the Death Ray

Court Jester

Fear the Death Ray

What happened to my LIFE?!

Court Jester

Fear the Death Ray

What happened to my LIFE?!

In the zone...

Fear the Death Ray

Fear the Death Ray

Company Man

What happened to my LIFE?!