Where is the Market?

Elaine Margarett · Feb 6, 2008

I've been noticing in some of the agents'/editors' guidelines that the call for paranormal romances and chicklit, so hot recently, is starting to wane.

Suspence/Thriller still seem to be hot requests; and historicals are enjoying a resergence.

So what about the big, sensual reads of yesteryear...writers of the ilk of Lavryle Spencer, Roesemay Rogers or early Sandra Brown before she went the thriller route...? You know, the kind that's all about the emtional/sexual relationship of the H/H with nary a vamp or werewolf in sight. Who, if anyone, are looking for those types of manuscripts?

Anyone know?

EM

Crinklish · Feb 6, 2008

Everybody! That's absolutely what we're hunting for now--basically stuff in the Catherine Anderson mold. In fact, my boss said just recently that "the market is ripe for a new LaVyrle Spencer." In women's fiction, everyone wants to find another Jodi Picoult. If big, emotional stories are what you right, I'd say start querying!

Elaine Margarett · Feb 6, 2008

Really?! I mean ... REALLY?!!

Okay ... deep breaths ... stop hyperventilating ... OMG! I might have something marketable!

So ... Let me ask you ... What about weird time frames, say 1948? Oh, and it has a nun and an undercover cop in it, and lots and lots of sex! I tag it as Beauty and the Beast Meets the Sopranos.

And who are these Gods you work for? Hmmm?

EM

Heather Lewis · Feb 7, 2008

Crinklish said:
Everybody! That's absolutely what we're hunting for now--basically stuff in the Catherine Anderson mold. In fact, my boss said just recently that "the market is ripe for a new LaVyrle Spencer." In women's fiction, everyone wants to find another Jodi Picoult. If big, emotional stories are what you right, I'd say start querying!

I have a secondary question -- what if I have a ms that fits this description, but I queried it 2 years ago when people weren't looking? I had some interest from agents, but ultimately no one took it on. So, I mailed query letters (just query, no pages) to 2 publishers who take unagented queries (Avon and HQN) and got quick form rejections.

I've since revised the query letter and the manuscript -- but did I shoot myself in the foot by querying the publishers directly? My understanding is that they'll have a database somewhere and they'll know if I re-query the same manuscript & give it an auto-reject.

Heather

Cathy C · Feb 7, 2008

Elaine Margarett said:
And who are these Gods you work for? Hmmm?

Sorry, Elaine, but more than one of the editors and agents who post here like to remain anonymous. But rest assured that Crinklish knows her stuff. She's worked for several of the romance big dogs.

Erin · Feb 7, 2008

Is paranormal romance really waning? Or is it just vampire paranormal? I think if you have a really good/different "other paranormal" the market's still there. I still love reading paranormal romance and that's 75% of what I read. However, if I read a blurb for a book that looks interesting and the main them involves vampires, I run fast (as a peripheral theme, I don't mind vampires). There's way too many vampire books on the shelves for my tastes.

Crinklish · Feb 7, 2008

Heather Lewis said:
I have a secondary question -- what if I have a ms that fits this description, but I queried it 2 years ago when people weren't looking? ...I've since revised the query letter and the manuscript -- but did I shoot myself in the foot by querying the publishers directly? My understanding is that they'll have a database somewhere and they'll know if I re-query the same manuscript & give it an auto-reject.

Heather

Yes and no. Most editors do keep submission logs, and if you resend the same book with the same title, they'll notice. But if you've genuinely revised the material, given the time elapsed, I'd say go ahead and requery with a new title.

Crinklish · Feb 7, 2008

Erin said:
Is paranormal romance really waning? Or is it just vampire paranormal? I think if you have a really good/different "other paranormal" the market's still there.

Got it in one, Erin--we're mostly vamped (and wolfed) out, but paranormal's still selling, so if you can find a new angle, we're all for it. For example, I know people with succubus series, genie series, random-magical-dudes series...all of which are selling. The challenge is always to make it fresh.

(netiquette query here...I'm sorry for the double post, but I couldn't figure out how to quote from two different sources in my first post! Am I just a board dunce?)

Elaine Margarett · Feb 7, 2008

Cathy C said:
Sorry, Elaine, but more than one of the editors and agents who post here like to remain anonymous. But rest assured that Crinklish knows her stuff. She's worked for several of the romance big dogs.

My apologies! (although I really didn't expect an answer <g>)

EM,
polishing up my query

Cathy C · Feb 7, 2008

Crinklish said:
(netiquette query here...I'm sorry for the double post, but I couldn't figure out how to quote from two different sources in my first post! Am I just a board dunce?)

Look down at the bottom of the post, Crinklish. You'll see a Quote button, a " button and a button with a piece of paper with a pencil.

1) The Quote button is what you used to reply.

2) The " button is a "multi-post" link. Click it on each post you want to reply to. It'll light up red after a second. Once you've selected all your sources, choose Post Reply at the bottom and ALL the individual posts will show up for you to answer after the [ /q] link

3) The pencil button is a "Quick Reply" button that will activate the ActiveX box at the bottom of the page.

Hope that helps!

burgy61 · Feb 7, 2008

Crinklish said:
Everybody! That's absolutely what we're hunting for now--basically stuff in the Catherine Anderson mold. In fact, my boss said just recently that "the market is ripe for a new LaVyrle Spencer." In women's fiction, everyone wants to find another Jodi Picoult. If big, emotional stories are what you right, I'd say start querying!

What do you consider big?

Erin · Feb 7, 2008

Crinklish said:
Got it in one, Erin--we're mostly vamped (and wolfed) out, but paranormal's still selling, so if you can find a new angle, we're all for it. For example, I know people with succubus series, genie series, random-magical-dudes series...all of which are selling. The challenge is always to make it fresh.

That's great, because I'm polishing up book 1 of my urban fantasy (with romantic elements) now and no vamps or wolfs exist! I think it's a fresh slant and I hope others do too. I had way too much fun writing it!

It's also great to see the demand for woman's fiction and "big" romance again.

Crinklish · Feb 10, 2008

[Using my new multi-quote skills, thanks to Cathy]

burgy61 said:
What do you consider big?

"Big" in terms of scope, not length--basically, challenging ideas, messy plot twists, a sense of drama and breadth to your canvas. Alas, "big" tends to be like "porn"--I know it when I see it.

Erin said:
That's great, because I'm polishing up book 1 of my urban fantasy (with romantic elements) now and no vamps or wolfs exist! I think it's a fresh slant and I hope others do too. I had way too much fun writing it!

I'll pass on one caveat that came up at our editorial meeting the other day--our editor who handles a lot of fantasy had done a second read on an urban fantasy submitted by a romance author. She observed that it was really a paranormal romance, and lacked the elements that would appeal to true urban fantasy readers. "Urban fantasy" is a hot subgenre right now, and a lot of paranormal romance writers are crossing over--but just be sure that your world-building is complex and engaging enough to warrant the fantasy label, if you go in that direction. The poor UF editors are getting jaded!

Erin · Feb 10, 2008

Crinklish said:
[Using my new multi-quote skills, thanks to Cathy]

I'll pass on one caveat that came up at our editorial meeting the other day--our editor who handles a lot of fantasy had done a second read on an urban fantasy submitted by a romance author. She observed that it was really a paranormal romance, and lacked the elements that would appeal to true urban fantasy readers. "Urban fantasy" is a hot subgenre right now, and a lot of paranormal romance writers are crossing over--but just be sure that your world-building is complex and engaging enough to warrant the fantasy label, if you go in that direction. The poor UF editors are getting jaded!

Thanks for the advice! I'm fairly certain I'm using the label urban fantasy correctly since I read a lot in that genre. Mine would appeal (I hope!) to readers of Charlaine Harris, Kim Harrison, LK Hamilton. I don't have a traditional HEA (although it's a happy ending), I believe my world building is distinctive from what I'm seeing on the market. Book 1 sets up the stage, with enough loose threads to bring a reader back for book 2, yet also ending it on a satisfying note. Contest judges have told me my 1st person POV is distinctive. Whew...thanks...you made me think and qualify all this for myself! I hope the UF editors aren't too jaded yet!

burgy61 · Feb 11, 2008

Crinklish;2046799"Big" in terms of scope said:
Could you please give me a couple of book titles that are considered big romances. Thank you.

Lisa F · Feb 11, 2008

What about Regency romances? Where do they stand? I love this genre (as a reader - I gobble them up).

Erin · Feb 11, 2008

Regencies are still alive and I think there will always be a demand for them (albeit a small demand now). The market seems so cyclical at times! Cerridwen Press has a regency line and started it up when others were shutting theirs down.

Crinklish · Feb 11, 2008

I was going to say that Regencies are dead, to be honest--but my perspective is that of the big print houses. But as Erin noted, the market is cyclical, and every genre in town has been declared dead more than once. It's not a great time to query the major publishers with a true Regency romance (rather than a Regency-set historical) at the moment, though.

As for authors doing "big romance," look at Catherine Anderson, Kathleen Eagle, maybe Dorothy Garlock (though her stuff can be a bit dated)...even Debbie Macomber, though she gets sold in as women's fiction rather than romance. It's a fine line these days.

clara bow · Feb 11, 2008

*raises hand with question*

I like reading historicals (just finished a *500* page Western and it was awesome!), but I could never write one. So what did I do? I wrote a science fiction romance/futuristic.

Aside from the fact that I am insane, does anyone care to comment on why this is such a challenging genre to get published (meaning by romance publishers--I know why it wouldn't fly with straight SF agents/editors) (and for the sake of my mental health, let's assume I've written a good, sexy, action packed love story)?

I've been seeing quite a few deals recently for the published authors, which is great because I have more good stuff to read, but what is the current perception from the editors' side of the fence? It seems even established authors have a bit of a mountain to climb here (but I'd love to be wrong!).

Thanks in advance to whoever can enlighten me.

Cathy C · Feb 12, 2008

I wrote a science fiction romance/futuristic

Well, part of the problem is that you're CALLING it this. SF and futuristic are two distinct subgenres. A "futuristic" is one that is set primarily on Earth, in the future---and relies on the premise that you can only extrapolate what COULD happen based on our existing reality---no alternate histories allowed. Humans can't breathe methane, for example. Oxygen rules. "Science fiction" is usually set off-Earth, through travel/living on another planet, or using an entirely different base culture to set the story and relies on the use of science being a primary part of the plot. "Star Trek" sort of confused everyone and blurred the lines because it's futuristic AND SF AND fantasy, all blended into one. People finally gave up and decided it was mostly SF because it occurred in outer space and most of the cultures encountered were non-Earth in nature and science was heavily relied on.

I know why it wouldn't fly with straight SF agents/editors

You do? Why? SF novels don't mind a good love story/romance. Catherine Asaro has proved that, as has Susan Kearney. But publishers DO demand attention to detail and accuracy in the SF details. And trust me, those who like SF/romance crosses demand no less. Is there something in the plot that you're thinking a romance editor wouldn't like that an SF editor is ALSO not liking?

Irysangel · Feb 12, 2008

I think that most 'SF' diehards probably wouldn't touch a romance/SF crossover with a 10-foot pole. I have friends that could tell you all about how most 'true' SF audiences view romance as 'girl cooties' stuff. They Do Not Want.

So you are hitting a small pool in the big market - the romance audience that wants the paranormal/futuristic elements. Not the market that happens to like some romance tossed into their SF adventure.

As for what Crinklish says about the worldbuilding, sooo true. When I shopped my succubus books (SEX STARVED & SEX DRIVE, gotta love the titles) I thought they were light urban fantasy. I was told that while my editor loved my books (love love), they were most definitely not urban fantasy. I asked why. I was told that my worldbuilding (which I thought was complex) was not in-depth enough to really 'ripen' the story from paranormal romance to urban fantasy.

I think the tricky way to look at it is to look at how much your setting affects your story. If your story is primarily character-driven (whether the characters be vampires or werewolves or succubi) then you lean towards 'paranormal'. If your story is primarily plot driven (succubi trying to pull off the heist of the year) and world driven (succubi trying to stop Armageddon) then you have a very different kind of story - urban fantasy.

(I could be totally wrong, but there's my interpretation)

clara bow · Feb 12, 2008

Thanks for the input.

I wrote the story that came to me, so there’s a possibility it doesn’t fit neatly into any of the current market categories. That self-induced problem aside, I think I ended up with a story that blends different elements. I imagine that if I gave it to ten people to read, some would define it as a futuristic (because part of it takes place on Earth in the future—no alternate history whatsoever), some as a space opera (most of it takes place in space, but there’s not a “space opera” category in the bookshelves so moot point I think), and others as a science fiction romance.

There’s also a few fantasy/horror elements thrown in. Ultimately, if I have to make a strictly genre comparison, my story is a fantasy the way Star Wars is a fantasy. Most people of course think of SW as science fiction, but if you really break it down it has a number of fantasy elements.

Ultimately what matters is does anyone think they can sell the story—marketing will call it whatever they want, and that’s fine by me. There are plenty of published books that blend different genres and subgenres. I understand that there is a general difference between futuristic and science fiction romance, but I’ve read books that were called one and were actually the other (a publisher categorization, I’d imagine).

Even author Linnea Sinclair acknowledges this issue regarding her latest sfr:

I’d call it a science fiction romance-police procedural but that’s me and you’re never going to find that shelf in a bookstore. It’s not a mystery per se because it doesn’t fit the requirements of the mystery genre (it’s not a whodunit). Science Fiction Romance Police Action Adventure? Men in Black meets CSI: Miami is probably the best.

http://www.simegen.com/writers/spotlights/science/Sinclair/

Part of me wonders if the books that blend romance and science fiction these days are evolving differently. Maybe not, but my interest was not in writing just a futuristic or just a science fiction story with a romantic subplot. No, I had to make things difficult for myself, lol!

I agree with Irysangel completely about SF diehards, and they would be right not to want to read my book. There are times when I just want straight SF myself. The question may not be so much which elements would turn which editors off, but are there editors/agents who would like all of the elements?

Just as there are editors who like paranormals that take place in a historical time period, I was wondering if there are editors who like books such as Lois McMaster Bujold’s SHARDS OF HONOR? That was published as science fiction, but I’d be willing to bet it’d be tagged as a science fiction romance today. (Not that I am in *any* way comparing myself—believe me, I know I am not that good of a writer). But in terms of the blend of elements, that’s the kind of sfr or whatever it’s called I’d like to keep writing. For the romance readers. If less diehard SF readers want to read it too, I sure as heck wouldn’t try and stop ‘em.

clara bow · Feb 12, 2008

Irysangel said:
So you are hitting a small pool in the big market - the romance audience that wants the paranormal/futuristic elements. Not the market that happens to like some romance tossed into their SF adventure.

A

Ah...so maybe (in my ignorance), paranormal just *seems* bigger than it is? Is it ultimately a small piece of the pie compared to contemporaries and historicals? In other words, I did know that sfr/futuristic was a small, small portion, but I thought paranormal was bigger (and therefore a much bigger number of readers who cross over into different things). But maybe that assumption of mine was way off. Interesting.

clara bow · Feb 12, 2008

Crinklish said:
It's not a great time to query the major publishers with a true Regency romance (rather than a Regency-set historical) at the moment, though.

.

This has me curious. I'm not about to write a Regency, but why is it a really bad time to query? Is it really as simple as a saturated market? Just curious, really.

Irysangel · Feb 12, 2008

I read somewhere that the more you 'compartmentalize' your story, the more your audience shrinks. That's why in the past it was considered 'bad' to have crossover. Instead of getting both the SF market and the romance market, you'd only be getting the tiny portion of the audience that likes both (where the circles interlap).

(This sounds so much better with a diagram, lol).

So if your book is truly down the middle, that's a tough call. You might try tailoring your query differently for different agents/publishers. More relationship-heavy for the romance agents/editors and more plot/setting heavy for the SF market.

And here's something random and way out there, but have you tried Juno Books? I know they are open to submissions and I think they are also very open to the type of story, as long as it has appeal for the feminine reader.

Where is the Market?

High and Dry

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Listening to my other selves

High and Dry

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Li'l Rug Bug

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She of Many Names

Li'l Rug Bug

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