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lindylou45
03-15-2005, 05:36 AM
:cry: I got my rejection letter from Harlequin today. They sent a form letter so I don't really know why it was rejected, although I think the prologue might make it a bit too strong for Harlequin. I guess I'll try Dorchester after I've done a re-work on it. :gone:

lynn avendar
03-15-2005, 05:41 AM
I'm sorry to hear that lindylou. I hope you have better luck next time.

Susan Gable
03-15-2005, 05:57 AM
:cry: I got my rejection letter from Harlequin today. They sent a form letter so I don't really know why it was rejected, although I think the prologue might make it a bit too strong for Harlequin. I guess I'll try Dorchester after I've done a re-work on it. :gone:

Awww, Linda, I'm sorry! :Hug2: Let me pass you the chocolate.

Is this your very first rejection? Because if it is, we have to have a party. I know, that sounds kind of weird, but honestly, it's something to be celebrated.

You've done something many people don't. You've braved rejection. You have to submit and be brave to get pubbed, and you've done that!

Intrigue is tough - they've got a very delicate balance of intrigue and romance that they like. Also, the line recently went from 6 books per month down to 4 books, so that means fewer slots availible even to the authors already in their stable.

You're definately taking the right attitude - onward and upward! Revise it, make it ready for one of the single title romantic suspense publishers, and then get it back out! (truthfully you've got a LOT more options with single title romantic suspense.)

What's the word count on it? That's the big difference between shooting for Intrigue and shooting for one of the single title romsus houses.

Best of luck with the resubmitting! Give a holler if we can be of any help with a query letter or something!

Susan G.

lindylou45
03-15-2005, 06:28 AM
"Awww, Linda, I'm sorry! :Hug2: Let me pass you the chocolate."

Thanks, I've had some chocolate today.

"Is this your very first rejection? Because if it is, we have to have a party. I know, that sounds kind of weird, but honestly, it's something to be celebrated."

For this book, yes. For other books, alas no. Plus I got embroiled in the whole PA thing. :crazy: What was I thinking???

"Intrigue is tough - they've got a very delicate balance of intrigue and romance that they like. Also, the line recently went from 6 books per month down to 4 books, so that means fewer slots availible even to the authors already in their stable."

I don't think the book was right for Harlequin anyway. Possibly a little too violent.

"You're definately taking the right attitude - onward and upward! Revise it, make it ready for one of the single title romantic suspense publishers, and then get it back out! (truthfully you've got a LOT more options with single title romantic suspense.)"

I'm a firm believer that you only fail if you don't try. So, I'll do a rewrite and I think I'll try Dorchester next time. It's nice to know I have more options.

"What's the word count on it? That's the big difference between shooting for Intrigue and shooting for one of the single title romsus houses."

The word count right now is almost 85,000. If I take the prologue out it will change it of course, but I've been considering how to rework it and I've got new scenes already planned out in my head. I might not lose too many words. I've recently joined a critique group and they've proven to be extremely helpful.

"Best of luck with the resubmitting! Give a holler if we can be of any help with a query letter or something!"

Thanks Susan and Lynn. I'll work it out, but one thing I'll never do is stop writing! I love it too much.

Susan Gable
03-15-2005, 05:58 PM
"The word count right now is almost 85,000. If I take the prologue out it will change it of course, but I've been considering how to rework it and I've got new scenes already planned out in my head. I might not lose too many words. I've recently joined a critique group and they've proven to be extremely helpful.


Linda, you're not using the computer word count, right? (I have to ask that because recently I ran across someone who had been submitting using the computer word count.)

Also, be aware that single title word count generally runs around 100,000. You might want to beef it up a bit before you submit it - at least tweak it another 5,000 words or so, getting it up to 90,000. That will show the publishers that you know the requirements and you're right in the ballpark. :)

Susan G.

lindylou45
03-15-2005, 10:51 PM
Linda, you're not using the computer word count, right? (I have to ask that because recently I ran across someone who had been submitting using the computer word count.)

Yes, I am using the computer word count. Now I feel really stupid. Am I not supposed to be? What a moron! May I ask how to figure word count? :Shrug:

Also, be aware that single title word count generally runs around 100,000. You might want to beef it up a bit before you submit it - at least tweak it another 5,000 words or so, getting it up to 90,000. That will show the publishers that you know the requirements and you're right in the ballpark. :)

I'm reworking the ms, so I may be able to do that. I removed the prologue and wrote a whole new Chapter One and will use the current Chapter One as Chapter two and so on. Hopefully, I'll be able to get it the length it needs to be. Sure wish I had known about that word count. :Hammer:

Susan Gable
03-16-2005, 01:27 AM
Yes, I am using the computer word count. Now I feel really stupid. Am I not supposed to be? What a moron! May I ask how to figure word count? :Shrug:



Absolutely, and don't feel stupid. Lots of people don't know at first that this (computer word count) isn't how publishers figure word count.

You need to format your ms so that you have approximately 250 words per page. That's done by getting 25 lines per page, like this:

Page margins 1.2 inches all around
Font: Courier New 12 pt.
Spacing: At least 24 pt.
Widows and Orphans turned OFF!

I also turn on my line numbering so I can see for sure that I'm getting 25 lines per page. (Sometimes for reason unknown to me, the Widows and Orphans thing turns itself back ON, and then I don't get my 25 lines. I fix Widows & Orphans, and I'm back in business.)

Now, after getting all your formating correct (don't forget to start new chapters 1/3 of the way down the page), you go by how many PAGES your ms is. So, 100,000 word ms will run 400 pages.

The reason publishers do it this way is because it doesn't matter if you have one word or ten words on the line - it takes up the same amount of space in a book.

When you covert your ms, you'll probably find that you have a higher word count based on pages than you did with the computer word count. (Again because the computer is counting actual WORDS, and you're now counting space usage instead. So a line with one word of dialogue counts the same as a full line with 10 words on it.)

So you might not be too far off with the word count. <G> That's the good news. <G>

Susan G.

lindylou45
03-16-2005, 09:04 AM
Page margins 1.2 inches all around
Font: Courier New 12 pt.
Spacing: At least 24 pt.
Widows and Orphans turned OFF!

I also turn on my line numbering so I can see for sure that I'm getting 25 lines per page. (Sometimes for reason unknown to me, the Widows and Orphans thing turns itself back ON, and then I don't get my 25 lines. I fix Widows & Orphans, and I'm back in business.)

Now, after getting all your formating correct (don't forget to start new chapters 1/3 of the way down the page), you go by how many PAGES your ms is. So, 100,000 word ms will run 400 pages.



Thanks, Susan. I had no idea. Now I have another stupid question:

Widows and Orphans turned OFF! :Wha:

What is this??? I have no idea what you are taking about. Please save me from my own stupidity. :Huh:

So, 100,000 word ms will run 400 pages.

My ms is 377 pages using your format (minus the widows and orphans thing), so I have a little farther to go.

Thanks for all your help! I really appreciate it. :Hug2:

Rose
03-16-2005, 09:41 AM
Hurray, I can help on this one.

For Word (in MS Office 2003):

Select the paragraphs in which you want to control widows and orphans (http://mk:@msitstore:C:Program%20FilesMicrosoft%20OfficeO FFICE111033wdmain11.chm::/html/wohowInsertPositionPageBreaks1.htm#).
On the Format menu, click Paragraph, and then click the Line and Page Breaks tab.
De-select the Widow/Orphan control check box (there should be NO check in the box).
If you're using a different program or version, just open up Help and type "widows" as a search term.

lindylou45
03-16-2005, 10:15 AM
Thanks, Rose. I'll try it, I'm sure it will be the same with Microsoft Works.

FAB
04-24-2005, 01:01 PM
Rejection is nothing more than part of the process of improving your own writing style. When we learn from the negative, we create a more positive future. The chances of a writer not getting rejected sometime in their career is slimmer than winning the lottery.

Having said that, I wish you the best in your future submittals. Can you pass a piece of chocolate?

kmm8n
04-27-2005, 04:55 AM
[QUOTE=Susan Gable]
Page margins 1.2 inches all around
Font: Courier New 12 pt.
Spacing: At least 24 pt.
Widows and Orphans turned OFF!


Hi Susan and Everyone else,
Now I feel stupid!!! I just did the above and I only have 24 lines per page. How do I get 25 lines per page? Thanks for your help.

Susan Gable
04-27-2005, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=Susan Gable]
Page margins 1.2 inches all around
Font: Courier New 12 pt.
Spacing: At least 24 pt.
Widows and Orphans turned OFF!


Hi Susan and Everyone else,
Now I feel stupid!!! I just did the above and I only have 24 lines per page. How do I get 25 lines per page? Thanks for your help.

Okay, try playing with the margins. I don't know WHY (except sometimes Word does stupid things! <G>) it should be different for different people. Try setting your margins at 1.1 inches all around.

I have a problem: sometimes only on the FIRST PAGE of my ms, I end up with 26 lines, and all the others have 25. :Smack: I can not figure out why this happens for the life of me. <sigh>

Susan G.

ArynStephens
05-12-2005, 04:19 AM
Hey all, trying to find a niche here! I am liking it here already. So tell me, where can I find Harlequin's addy so I can get a rejection letter as well? I have been trying to find them and can only get as far as ordering their books.

ArynStephens
05-12-2005, 04:21 AM
Oh, Rose, I like it..."I write therefore I exist.":roll: :wag: ;)

Susan Gable
05-12-2005, 05:49 PM
Hey all, trying to find a niche here! I am liking it here already. So tell me, where can I find Harlequin's addy so I can get a rejection letter as well? I have been trying to find them and can only get as far as ordering their books.

LOL, Aryn. Every writer should have a rejection letter. <G> It's all part of the process.

To find the guidelines and submission information for the various H/S lines, go here:

http://www.eharlequin.com/cms/learntowrite/ltwArticle.jhtml?pageID=021101wu00001

Good luck, and feel free to ask questions!

Susan G.

ArynStephens
05-12-2005, 09:32 PM
OH thanks Susan! You don't know how much I appreciate that! I am SOO looking forward to more rejection letters, LOL!
Hugs!

PixelFish
05-12-2005, 10:38 PM
For those of you who know Widows and Orphans only by the strange check box in your word processor, they are the lines of text that are separated from the rest of their paragraph in layout. Widows occur when you have a single line of text at the bottom of a page, and orphans, when the line is at the top of the page.

(Also, depending on if you ever go into package design, widows and orphans shrink from being just single lines to single and double words. For example, if I have a long column of text, and the last line has a single word on it, it looks kind of lonely and odd down there all by itself, so I'll kern and shift things around until I have at least three words, if I can.)

Oh, and this becomes relevant because if your word processor is attempting to layout lines to avoid widows and orphans, it's actually going to be screwing with the word count. (Hapi Sofi has a post somewhere about proper word count. It has only a little to do with how many words you actually have and more with how many pages.) Not only that, but the layout folks will be fixing that sort of thing anyway, if your book gets accepted.

Sophie
06-15-2005, 07:30 AM
I sent a manuscript, by request, to an editor at MIRA Books (associated with Harlequin). It was read by their reader who recommended that it be published. All this took ONE YEAR! My rejection letter (not form letter) said the novel wasn't for them because it was told from a man's point of view. DUH. They knew that the minute they read my query. I had another novel go all the way up to the editorial director (4 1/2 months) of a prestigious publisher before it was rejected, although he wrote the novel was "interesting, original, and well-written." The problem was that it cost so much money to publish a blank book that publishing a book with words in it, I suppose, was prohibitive,unless they were certain they could sell it. I suppose he meant I had no track record. You need to have a track record regarding sales, and you need to get published to have a track record. Catch 22.
I'm not crying. I still write because I love to write. Rejection letters are just part of the game.

Writer2011
06-15-2005, 07:53 AM
Lindylou...I know how it is to be rejected by a publisher... Well let me take that back. When I was a bit younger (16) I sent part of a story to an agency out in California, got a letter back saying I wasn't good enough..well it hurt, but at the same time it was encouraging me to do better....

Again, I am sorry but you will bounce back and send out another manuscript and will get published...Good luck to you.

Bill