PDA

View Full Version : The Wild Rose Press / Wildflowers Books



Pages : [1] 2

akaa1a
01-13-2007, 04:26 AM
Nothing for P&E
Goggled for complaints...none
They do E and print


Does anyone have an opinion on this publisher?

James D. Macdonald
01-15-2007, 06:11 AM
URL?

Have you personally ever read any of their books? Have you ever seen one in a bookstore?

veinglory
01-15-2007, 06:17 AM
White Rose the sweet imprint of Wild Rose? They do some print (over 55k, as I recall) but I have yet to see them stocked in my local chain stores.

akaa1a
01-15-2007, 06:39 AM
Right, it's the Inspirational romance imprint for them. I will start looking in bookstores for them.

Thanks

CaoPaux
01-17-2007, 11:35 PM
Adding link: http://www.thewildrosepress.com/

Khazarkhum
01-19-2008, 11:51 PM
In the most recent RWR, there's an interview with Rhonda Penders, one of the owners of Wild Rose Press. In the article, she talks about self-promotion and she states that:


The big thing is no matter what promotion your publishing house might do, it's entirely up to the author to sell her book. No one cares about your book as much as you do.

Is it just me, or is that eerily similar to the PA line about promotion?

MissLadyRae
01-20-2008, 03:22 AM
Rhonda said once in an interview that they're working toward stocking their books in stores in the near future but they aren't quite there yet. I have a book coming out in the Faery Rose imprint so I can't really comment on the White Rose section but the editors and proofreaders I've worked with are very lovely and definitely know their stuff. Marketing sends your work out to romance reviewers and keeps you abreast of promotional opportunities via their groups.

TWRP is definitely small press so they can't really afford the big marketing dollars of the larger presses to do major marketing campaigns. I think that's what Rhonda meant in the above interview.

I'm happy with my pub experience there and would definitely submit more of my shorter works in the future.

Hope that helps!

Khazarkhum
01-20-2008, 04:15 PM
In the article she says they have 60 full-time staff & 300 writers. That sounds a whole lot bigger than a micropress.

When I think 'micropress' I think of someplace with fewer than 10 people handling it.

Jennifer Robins
01-20-2008, 09:22 PM
I have been offered a contract and had to do some revisions which I have. Looking foward to working with them.

Jennifer Robins
www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

priceless1
01-20-2008, 09:49 PM
In the article she says they have 60 full-time staff & 300 writers.
I don't know anything about this publisher, but I'm amazed they can pay 60 people if they don't have distribution. How do they sustain themselves?

edgyllama
01-20-2008, 10:02 PM
Probably from this:


There are, however, optional buy-ins for advanced marketing.

Wonder what you get for that?

priceless1
01-21-2008, 12:35 AM
Probably from this:

There are, however, optional buy-ins for advanced marketing.
Wonder what you get for that?
I'm probably missing something here, but it's vital to know what that the optional buy-in for "advanced marketing" encompasses. Unless they're talking about cooperative advertising, I wonder why they don't do this advanced marketing as a matter of normal practice.

All I know is that A + B has got to equal C. By their own admission, they aren't in the stores. Considering they don't have distribution, it's illogical to believe that "advanced marketing" would make a large enough impact on sales in order to employ 60 employees. Like I said, I've possibly missed something.

Khazarkhum
01-21-2008, 01:23 AM
I'm probably missing something here, but it's vital to know what that the optional buy-in for "advanced marketing" encompasses. Unless they're talking about cooperative advertising, I wonder why they don't do this advanced marketing as a matter of normal practice.

All I know is that A + B has got to equal C. By their own admission, they aren't in the stores. Considering they don't have distribution, it's illogical to believe that "advanced marketing" would make a large enough impact on sales in order to employ 60 employees. Like I said, I've possibly missed something.

I'm still trying to figure out how a micropress/ebook publisher manages to pay 60 people in the first place.

If they're paid minimum wage, which is currently $7.15 in New York, that's $14,500/year. Multiply that by 60, you get $870,000. And that's the minimum. No benefits, no overhead. Just wages.

Now, if they allow most of the editors/staff to telecommute, that cuts down the need for a physical plant. But there's still servers & sites to maintain, plus whatever the print runs cost.

So a conservative estimate would be $1 million/year just to run it.

veinglory
01-21-2008, 04:20 AM
They do list about 60 staff. However, I suspect mainly part time or on royalty payments. 60 full time would be almsot impossible to believe based on the earning potential of 300 ebook authors.

Khazarkhum
01-21-2008, 06:06 AM
No, their article states 60 full-time.

veinglory
01-21-2008, 07:11 AM
Yes, the article does indeed state it. But even with sales figures rather higher than this press seems to have, there is no way they are paying 60 full time wages. I would guess a mis-quote. Either than or someone is choosing to invest at least 10x more into the company than it yields in profits and I think Wild Rose are far too professional to do that.

Khazarkhum
01-21-2008, 09:03 AM
I agree it doesn't make sense.

I hope they last. My sister has a book that would be great for one of their lines. Now I just have to convince her it's worthwhile. She's a real overachiever, and had the agents jumped for her the way she expected them to, she would be in heaven. They didn't, and she's been down on publishing ever since.

I've heard so many good things about Wild Rose, but then there's these oddities. I don't know what to think about them anymore.

Stacia Kane
01-21-2008, 11:07 AM
I've heard so many good things about Wild Rose, but then there's these oddities. I don't know what to think about them anymore.


Personally? I think there are other ebook publishers that have been in business for much longer that your sister could submit to. Just my opinion.

Susan Gable
01-21-2008, 05:23 PM
I think some of their editors are paid royalties on the books they edit. So, no sales, no pay. Few sales, little pay.

This comes from a discussion I had with someone who used to edit for them. Not sure if she still does after the discussion we had regarding how she got paid.

:Shrug:


Susan G.

Khazarkhum
01-21-2008, 11:50 PM
I think some of their editors are paid royalties on the books they edit. So, no sales, no pay. Few sales, little pay.

This comes from a discussion I had with someone who used to edit for them. Not sure if she still does after the discussion we had regarding how she got paid.



How does that work? The author gets royalties, but the editor, too? What about the publisher? How do they get their cut?

Is this a typical arrangement for the epubs/micros?

veinglory
01-21-2008, 11:55 PM
The publisher takes its share. Then the author gets there share.

Some small presses pay editors, copy editors and cover artists this way too. I consider it a bad idea. For a start why should an editor for a book in a sub-genre that sells well be paid more than one for a book in a genre that sells less well? They didn't choose the genre, the author did. Also it can be a stealth way to pay very low wages. But basically these salaries are 'costs'. A legit publisher should have the money to pay them, up front.

Just my opinion, natch.

Khazarkhum
01-22-2008, 12:18 AM
The publisher takes its share. Then the author gets there share.

That's how I thought it worked.


Some small presses pay editors, copy editors and cover artists this way too. I consider it a bad idea. For a start why should an editor for a book in a sub-genre that sells well be paid more than one for a book in a genre that sells less well? They didn't choose the genre, the author did. Also it can be a stealth way to pay very low wages. But basically these salaries are 'costs'. A legit publisher should have the money to pay them, up front.



How do they do this without running afoul of the IRS, among many others? Consider them as 'Independent contractors' ? Uncle Sam starts getting mighty interested in how those people are paying SSI et al.

veinglory
01-22-2008, 01:08 AM
Ouch, wrong their/there.

There is nothing to stop them paying piecework to anyone who accepts those terms as far as I know. I do wonder how it works re: minimum wage legislation.

Popeyesays
01-22-2008, 03:10 AM
Ouch, wrong their/there.

There is nothing to stop them paying piecework to anyone who accepts those terms as far as I know. I do wonder how it works re: minimum wage legislation.


It works because these folks are NOT employees under the law, they are independent contractors.

Regards,
Scott

Khazarkhum
01-22-2008, 10:06 AM
How do they call them staff? Are they edited by the company or by an individual? I can see how having them as independents could make for inconsistencies.

legalwriterPR
01-28-2008, 03:00 AM
Any input? My friend has a manuscript to them and they keep asking for revisions (the editor) but are always making very BIG writing errors in their emails including messing up on dates and such constantly - and they are not telling her if they are offering her a contract.

I have never dealt with them and they seem fine otherwise but this has me concerned for her. This is her first time being published if this pans out.

I'm published (hard copy) and never had this happen like she is outlining.

Jennifer Robins
01-28-2008, 03:06 AM
I was asked to make one revision which I did and then they sent me my contract and instuctions sheets. So far I like my editor, she has been most helpful.

Jennifer Robins
www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

veinglory
01-28-2008, 03:10 AM
I write for several small romance presses and would expect a contract prior to any editing. I personally don't sweat email typos but that is only because I am prone to making them. :)

I have only a small data set so far but the Wild Rose sales seem to still be a bit sluggish. I would suggest any author to make sure they know what the press can deliver.

Dragon-lady
01-28-2008, 04:13 AM
I wouldn't even consider editing before a contract!

Khazarkhum
01-28-2008, 06:10 AM
I believe we had a thread going for them, under "White Rose Press".

I personally am concerned about the number of people they say they employ vs what sounds reasonable for a small e-pub.

Stacia Kane
01-28-2008, 11:02 AM
Are they asking for revisions (like, "Make the ending happier and I'll take another look at it" or are they actually doing edits, full edits of the entire ms?

What press has the time to waste doing full edits for a book they don't have a contract on? I've heard of this press doing that at least once before. The writer didn't get the contract offer email, but Wild Rose sent her edits anyway. It certainly gave me pause.

Dragon-lady
01-28-2008, 11:45 AM
Maybe it was a suggestion to edit and re-submit? That would make more sense and it does happen. Even then, I don't edit unless I have a contract in hand.

brianm
01-28-2008, 06:47 PM
Jerseychick has a book coming out with them this year. I believe it is being released as an ebook first, and then it will be released as a trade paperback later in the year. I'm sure she'll drop in and give us the scoop on her experience with WRP.

Christine N.
01-28-2008, 06:52 PM
Maybe it was a suggestion to edit and re-submit? That would make more sense and it does happen. Even then, I don't edit unless I have a contract in hand.

The beauty of computers is you can do all the revisions, save as another draft and re-submit.

If I hadn't done that very thing, THE CROWN OF ZEUS wouldn't be coming out in two weeks.

I won't say it's always in your best interests to do it. Depends on the publisher/agent, what they're asking for, and how you feel about it. The editor who originally looked at my ms made it very clear what kind of changes she needed before she'd look at it again. I thought about it, realized she was right, and spent a week doing the revisions. Which got the contract.

So don't always pooh-pooh someone's revision request, even if you don't have a contract. If you do the revisions and you still get rejected, you always have that original version saved on your computer.

victoriastrauss
01-28-2008, 07:18 PM
What press has the time to waste doing full edits for a book they don't have a contract on? I've heard of this press doing that at least once before. The writer didn't get the contract offer email, but Wild Rose sent her edits anyway. It certainly gave me pause.
That would give me pause too--assuming, as others have said, that it's actual editing and not a "revise and resubmit" request. I can't imagine that a publisher would waste its editorial resources on editing a work that it hadn't already contracted--if nothing else, this is very inefficient. It's also (IMO, anyway) unprofessional, which would make me wonder if I could trust the editorial expertise of the person making revision suggestions.

- Victoria

smlgr8
01-28-2008, 07:51 PM
Well I can say in my own case that for the Rose line my book is coming out through it was a revise and resubmit request. I certainly never thought of it any other way and the editor I dealt with/am dealing with was always professional. FWIW

AllieB
01-28-2008, 08:38 PM
I got a direct offer from them when I submitted, but I do know of other authors who have received a "revise and resubmit" request. From what I've seen working with them, they go above and beyond to help cultivate authors' writing and polish. I do not believe this editor would be doing/requesting actual edits, more likely asking to change a character/action/motivation/ending/etc. I think they prefer doing that to sending an outright rejection.

RoccoMom
01-28-2008, 09:02 PM
I've gotten a revise and resubmit request from Samhain, even though i went with Echelon in the end. so i guess it's not that unusual to receive.

Stacia Kane
01-28-2008, 09:05 PM
That would give me pause too--assuming, as others have said, that it's actual editing and not a "revise and resubmit" request. I can't imagine that a publisher would waste its editorial resources on editing a work that it hadn't already contracted--if nothing else, this is very inefficient. It's also (IMO, anyway) unprofessional, which would make me wonder if I could trust the editorial expertise of the person making revision suggestions.

- Victoria

In the case I referred to, it was indeed actual edits, not a revise-and-resub (which I don't get why people have issues with those). She found the acceptance email and contract in her Spam filter after getting her edited ms back.

Yes, I did raise an eyeborw, that's for sure! :)

Dragon-lady
01-28-2008, 09:06 PM
The fact that I don't edit without a contract in hand is a personal decision based on my experience selling my work. I was expressing my own policy, not necessarily recommending it.

The revision takes time that I could be working on something new with no guarantee of a sale, revising something to the taste of one particular editor. So it's something that the one time I got one, I chose not to do and I don't regret it because I sold it elsewhere. As I said, I was simply expressing my own attitude. I don't have consider that as having "issues." It's something everyone has to decide for themselves.

Edit: I can see changing my mind in some particular case, say with an editor I've worked with before. But generally, that's just how I feel about it.

Stacia Kane
01-28-2008, 09:07 PM
The fact that I don't edit without a contract in hand is a personal decision based on my experience selling my work. I was expressing my own policy, not necessarily recommending it. And I can even see changing my mind if I looked at a work and decided the editor was right. The revision takes time that I could be working on something new with no guarantee of a sale, though, revising something to the taste of one particular editor. So it's something that the one time I got one, I chose not to do and I don't regret it because I sold it elsewhere. As I said, I was simply expressing my own attitude.

I wasn't criticizing your personal choice, I hope you didn't think I was. I'm sorry if it came off that way. I was referring more to generalities.

Dragon-lady
01-28-2008, 09:14 PM
Well, I think my comment about revise-and-resubmit came across as stronger than I meant it or as more of a generality. So I thought clarification was in order. I can understand someone doing one and certainly wouldn't criticize that as long as they realize it's still on spec and may or may not be productive. :)

Christine N.
01-28-2008, 09:36 PM
I agree, it has to be a choice based on how likely it is you think you're going to get the contract if you make the changes, and if you think the book will actually benefit from the revisions (I did; after two days it hit me, exactly what she was talking about), and if you think it's worth jumping through hoops for a particular publisher (I did - Samhain is awesome!)

Jennifer Robins
01-28-2008, 09:53 PM
The revisions I was asked to do before the contract was not editing, it was to make a few changes that I fully agreed with. Such as not using full names so much and instead use he/she more times. It was no big deal and I was happy to do it. I still will go through some editing I'm sure but I'm ready. I think my editor wanted to make sure I was open to editing, that's all. She said if I would agree to make those changes, she had a contract on the way for me.

Jennifer Robins

CaoPaux
01-28-2008, 10:23 PM
WR has also been discussed at length in the Romance forum: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48207

Jersey Chick
01-28-2008, 11:49 PM
I wasn't asked to revise anything prior to being offered a contract. I only did revisions after everything signed and sent out. Unfortunately, I don't have that much to add, since the book I have coming out with them is my first with them, and won't be released until March - which is why I haven't really chimed in.

veinglory
01-29-2008, 03:00 AM
Just to echo, a revise and resubmit request--or rejection with suggestions and open door to resubmission--is different from edits. Edits would be a marked up manuscript and back and forth.

Jennifer Robins
03-07-2008, 08:07 PM
They sent me my cover which is now my avatar. So far they have been moving right along with my novel and I am kept informed along the way.

Jennifer

Karen Duvall
03-30-2008, 03:33 AM
I was among the first few authors The Wild Rose Press published. I like them a lot, and they've been wonderful to work with. One of the phenomenally best things about this company is its communication. They highly value the benefits of strong communication between authors and editors, and it shows. It's really amazing. And for being a small epublisher, their marketing department is on the ball 24/7. I wasn't able keep up with the promotional opportunities. It takes a lot of work to promote an ebook.

My romantic suspense novel, DESERT GUARDIAN, was published first as an e-book in October 2006, then in paper in December 2006. Just 2 short months from e to p. Heh. I know it takes something like 6 months now, but that's because the company has grown so much. I'm very pleased they took on my novel because it's pretty light on the romance and very heavy on the suspense. The published book got fantastic reviews, though sales weren't that hot. This was my second published book (first was an sf with a traditional small press) so I wasn't expecting a lot.

Now that I have some publishing credits and a taste of the industry, I'm holding out for an agent and a contract with a mass market publisher. It's been a great journey so far.

Chumplet
03-30-2008, 04:29 AM
Same here, Karen. WRP was a great way to step into the publishing process with a novel I didn't think would get published. The editor did send the first few chapters with editing suggestions while she went through the rest. A contract was offered before the edits were done.

Whether they were edits or not, I'm not sure. Maybe her mind was already made up when she sent me her suggestions.

I'm getting the total opposite experience with book number two, Bad Ice. The contract was signed last October with a July '08 release. I have yet to see any edits, but I'm told they should be soon.

I'm not making a million bucks with The Space Between, but I'm having a lot of fun promoting it and taking it for lunch, etc. I've learned so much since I wrote it that I know I can get an agent and a big publishing contract with either of my WIPs. I still have good vibes about WRP.

jodi henley
03-31-2008, 12:43 PM
I'm published with them too. Yes, they do have a large editorial staff, and they are as full-time as anyone can be while still holding down the jobs that pay the rent. The people who work for TWRP do it because they believe in this company. Not for the cash. It really is as touchie-feelie and "nice" as everyone says it is. The company mantra is..."if you are going to reject, tell them why--give them a few "marked up-track-change pages" to see what they can improve on." It isn't actual editing except in the sense that some editor cared enough to help. Some lines prefer not to track-change and simply give solid "this is what isn't working for me, maybe if you did..." suggestions.

They will also give a track-change r and r.

Their yahoo loops are full of nothing but happy people. I was totally amazed. Every concern is addressed within days. Every negative thing they discover about themselves is also addressed and corrected. They took note of the Triskelion disaster and carefully adjusted their procedures so it wouldn't happen to them too.

er, Chumplet. They're growing, so edits take longer on the turnaround. They're still pretty darned fast. I have good feelings about this group.

In the beginning I was really really iffy--but call me a convert. These guys are like the borg--everything operates for the greater good.

...from what I understand, a per project percentage of royalties is how the small presses operate right now. There's a thread over on Romance Divas where someone asked e and small editors/cover artists how they get paid--and across the board--not one was paid a "flat per hour". It's not like they own NY real estate.

ceelee
04-18-2008, 02:32 AM
Wild Rose doesn't do full edits on a ms until the contract is in. As someone said, it would be a waste of time and resources. It's pretty much company policy to be as "author-friendly" as possible.

I'm curious, are there other e-pubs out there that offer suggestions on improving a story? Or do most do as the print publishers do... a form letter that basically says "Thanks but no, thanks. Your story doesn't meet our needs at the present time."

jennontheisland
04-18-2008, 06:14 AM
My CP got an R&R from Samhain with some fairly specific direction for improving her story. Not a guarantee of publication by any stretch, but at least one e-pub that says "thanks for trying, here's why we don't want it"

jennontheisland
04-18-2008, 06:17 AM
I'm published with them too. Yes, they do have a large editorial staff, and they are as full-time as anyone can be while still holding down the jobs that pay the rent. The people who work for TWRP do it because they believe in this company. Not for the cash. It really is as touchie-feelie and "nice" as everyone says it is.

This part is what keeps me a fair distance from WRP. I mean, I'm all for believing in the company, but this is a business. I dunno, maybe it's because I'm not a touchie-feelie type person, but some of the emails that go out to authors (friend pubbed there) just gag me with sweetness.

Me, I'm giving them at least another year to see if they run out of sugar.

Stacia Kane
04-18-2008, 10:48 AM
Wild Rose doesn't do full edits on a ms until the contract is in. As someone said, it would be a waste of time and resources. It's pretty much company policy to be as "author-friendly" as possible.

Well, in at least one case they certainly did, so...I'm not sure if you're saying the girl who cheered when she found her edited ms in her inbox and then found the weeks-old contract in her spam filter was lying, or that I am?




I'm curious, are there other e-pubs out there that offer suggestions on improving a story? Or do most do as the print publishers do... a form letter that basically says "Thanks but no, thanks. Your story doesn't meet our needs at the present time."

Most publishers of any stripe don't have time to offer critiques on every rejection, no. It's nice that TWRP does it, but a form letter is really all that's expected in most cases.

priceless1
04-19-2008, 12:21 AM
I'm published with them too. Yes, they do have a large editorial staff, and they are as full-time as anyone can be while still holding down the jobs that pay the rent. The people who work for TWRP do it because they believe in this company. Not for the cash. It really is as touchie-feelie and "nice" as everyone says it is.
Benevolence is great, and I don't think there is a single publisher who doesn't love what they do. However, love and believing in a company doesn't pay the bills. Selling books does. What kind of message does "not for the cash" send to its authors? If they aren't in this crazy game to make money, then how hard will they work to get distribution and to get their books on shelves? While it's terrific that the authors are happy, how much of it stems from actual sales?


These guys are like the borg--everything operates for the greater good.
The only thing authors should consider when looking for a publisher is whether they get their books sold. What, exactly, does "the greater good" mean?


...from what I understand, a per project percentage of royalties is how the small presses operate right now
NO! This is NOT true. This is oftentimes how small print on demand publishers work because they don't have much money. A serious lack of proper financing is why POD publishers exist. And let's not get into the digital printing aspects -- I'm talking about the POD business plan. Trade publishers, on the other hand pay their staff. To put this in a more realistic context, you get what you pay for. Geez, I sound cranky. Sorry. I'm sick right now.

veinglory
04-19-2008, 02:54 AM
Indeed, even in this area editors are often paid a flat fee of some kind. As for sales: http://www.erecsite.com/PLIST.html -- with more on sales over a longer period to be posted next month.

caromora
04-19-2008, 03:17 AM
Hmm. I worked as an editor for one of the top epublishers, and I was paid a percentage of royalties. No flat fees. I could put in forty hours of work on a book and make twenty dollars for it, which is one of the reasons I quit. The editors for most epubs AREN'T in it for the money, because for the most part there's not a lot of it.

veinglory
04-19-2008, 03:31 AM
Which, in my humble but opinion, is why the majority of e-publishers have little or no standing a businesses. Publishing is a business, editing is a profession. I'm write for love, but I publish for money--and I don't expect any less for editors, copy-editors, type setters or cover artists. I do my charity work for charities and other worthy causes. If I don't end up making ate least semi-pro rates I don't submit there again--so I'm with you on that.

ceelee
04-21-2008, 05:07 AM
Well, in at least one case they certainly did, so...I'm not sure if you're saying the girl who cheered when she found her edited ms in her inbox and then found the weeks-old contract in her spam filter was lying, or that I am?

Most publishers of any stripe don't have time to offer critiques on every rejection, no. It's nice that TWRP does it, but a form letter is really all that's expected in most cases.


I was just saying what I know about the company; I wasn't saying or even implying that you or anyone else were lying! I certainly didn't think I sounded offensive. Maybe I should stick to lurking...

If someone got an edited ms before a contract, then good for her.

Thanks for the input re publishers, jennontheisland and Ms. Quinn.

Stacia Kane
04-21-2008, 01:34 PM
I was just saying what I know about the company; I wasn't saying or even implying that you or anyone else were lying! I certainly didn't think I sounded offensive. Maybe I should stick to lurking...

If someone got an edited ms before a contract, then good for her.

Thanks for the input re publishers, jennontheisland and Ms. Quinn.


I didn't say I was offended (I'm not), just curious.

When I say "I know something happened," and then you say "That doesn't happen," I think the only way to interpret that is that you're claiming someone is not telling the truth. Whether you intended that or not, it is in fact the implication.

I too was "just saying what I know about the company"; I wasn't addressing anyone in particular, but you clearly were. That's certainly within your rights, and you're welcome to do so. But you shouldn't make statements you can't back up.

There's no need to "stick to lurking" either. I really don't think I've jumped all over you or yelled in all caps or sent you threatening emails or pms or anything that would make you feel like you didn't have just as much right to post here as anyone else. I made a statement; you claimed it was untrue; I asked for clarification. That's all.

ceelee
04-22-2008, 03:18 AM
I didn't say I was offended (I'm not), just curious.

When I say "I know something happened," and then you say "That doesn't happen," I think the only way to interpret that is that you're claiming someone is not telling the truth. Whether you intended that or not, it is in fact the implication.

I too was "just saying what I know about the company"; I wasn't addressing anyone in particular, but you clearly were. That's certainly within your rights, and you're welcome to do so. But you shouldn't make statements you can't back up.

There's no need to "stick to lurking" either. I really don't think I've jumped all over you or yelled in all caps or sent you threatening emails or pms or anything that would make you feel like you didn't have just as much right to post here as anyone else. I made a statement; you claimed it was untrue; I asked for clarification. That's all.

I had skimmed the many postings quickly before I posted my comment about Wild Rose and its policy. If I had been addressing anyone in particular (such as yourself) or anyone's posting, I would have quoted the posting directly as reference or named said person in my original posting. I was not addressing you or anyone else. I wasn't even thinking about any particular posting -- I did just skim -- and just threw in my two cents about what I knew about the company.

I've gone back to see exactly what it was you said in detail to warrant your saying that I've implied someone is lying. Personally, I give people the benefit of the doubt, unless they directly name me or quote what I say. It's hard to remember what everyone has said in a thread. I know there's an option to review the entire thread but when I've used it I get an error.

No, you didn't "yell" or send threatening emails or PMs but you don't have to do that to make someone feel "taken back", especially if one's a newbie and the other is not. I am a newbie, on this board at least. But whatever...

About what I said earlier about Wild Rose's policy, I know that because I know people who edit there.

Jennifer Robins
04-22-2008, 06:59 PM
I have a book coming out with them soon and have had a great experience so far. My editor has responded to me in a timely manner every time I asked something. The publisher keeps all the authors informed about the company on a regular bases.

Jennifer Robins

www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

ixchel
04-29-2008, 01:04 AM
I received the most amazing revision letter from one of the editors. Her suggestions and comments really helped. I don't know if I will end up going with TWRP but I really appreciated the editor's comments.

AllieB
05-01-2008, 08:56 PM
I will echo the "not for the cash" comment. I'm also published with them, and yes, they were a good small press to start with, but I haven't been impressed with sales (my book e-released in Nov 07 and releases in print at the end of this month). I'm also published with a different e-pub, and sales and marketing there have been much better/more aggressive.

Also, my e-royalties are 30% with TWRP but 40% with my other publisher.

I have friends who adore TWRP. For me, it was a good place to get some editing and publishing experience, but I won't probably submit there again.

para
06-07-2008, 11:46 PM
Does anyone know what sales are like with this pub? Thanks.

jennontheisland
06-08-2008, 01:32 AM
Does anyone know what sales are like with this pub? Thanks.

Not personally, but EREC has them on their sales chart at an average of 17 copies sold in the first month, and 18 copies sold to date.

http://www.erecsite.com/SALES.html

veinglory
06-08-2008, 05:04 AM
I could do with some updates on that data (hint, hint)

para
06-08-2008, 08:27 AM
Not personally, but EREC has them on their sales chart at an average of 17 copies sold in the first month, and 18 copies sold to date.

http://www.erecsite.com/SALES.html

Thanks. Seems a little on the low side. I suppose their site must not get a lot of hits.

Karen Duvall
06-08-2008, 08:55 AM
TWRP is my publisher and I haven't been unhappy with them. The publishers are nice people. They depend on e-sales to keep the business profitable (which I think it is? I have no clue). Books come out in trade paper, but that's not their focus. They don't push paper, they concentrate on ebook sales.

My romantic suspense novel was among their roll-out titles back in 2006. I got really awesome reviews, OMG! Five stars, cupids, kisses, flowers, whatever, and recommended reads, but sales? Meh. The publishers depend on their authors to do all the leg work, which I suppose is fair. They don't make it a secret that it's expected. I just know that I'm done with ebooks for now. Not much return for all the effort. I'd rather write books. I'll trunk a book before going epub again, but that's just me. I know that most epublished authors are thrilled with their experience and adore the online self-promo stuff. I simply don't have the enthusiasm to do what's necessary to make an ebook sale.

jennontheisland
06-08-2008, 07:59 PM
I could do with some updates on that data (hint, hint)


Veinglory, are you looking for erotic only (Scarlet Rose line) or all WRP lines?

jennontheisland
06-09-2008, 11:39 PM
My CP just got her first quarter sales report. Her book was #2 on the best seller list for most of the week it was released. Anyone who wants numbers can PM me.

madmumbler
06-14-2008, 08:32 PM
So what is the overall impression of this e-pub? Are they a thumbs up or thumbs down?

Thanks.

Sonarbabe
06-14-2008, 11:03 PM
So what is the overall impression of this e-pub? Are they a thumbs up or thumbs down?

Thanks.

Hi, madmumbler and welcome! :welcome:

I have two books with them. One is scheduled for release in December and the other won't be until 2009. TWRP is legitimate and the staff is very friendly. As been stated above, the bulk of their sales comes from e-books. They're still relatively new--2 years as of last month--so, they have a ways to go before they reach Ellora's Cave and Samhain's success status.

In short, you probably won't make a lot of money from TWRP. But if you're okay with that and understand that going in, they're a good group to work with. Hope this helps!

para
06-15-2008, 12:02 AM
They're still relatively new--2 years as of last month--so, they have a ways to go before they reach Ellora's Cave and Samhain's success status.

Samhain is actually a relatively new press particularly in comparison to Elloras cave. They have been in business since Nov 2005. Which is a only seven months longer than TWRP.

Will TWRP have reached Samhain's success status by the end of this year?

Sonarbabe
06-15-2008, 12:20 AM
Will TWRP have reached Samhain's success status by the end of this year?

Hard put to say, really. They very well could, but I would venture to say the answer is no. Not by the end of the year at least. The wait and see approach is probably best if one isn't too sure, IMHO. :)

jennontheisland
06-15-2008, 12:36 AM
Samhain is actually a relatively new press particularly in comparison to Elloras cave. They have been in business since Nov 2005. Which is a only seven months longer than TWRP.

Will TWRP have reached Samhain's success status by the end of this year?

No.

Not a chance. Samhain has print books on bookshelf stores and an arrangement with Kensington. 6 Samhain books will be released as a Kensington line in the next year or so.

They aren't even in the same ballpark IMO.

Stacia Kane
06-15-2008, 02:20 AM
No.

Not a chance. Samhain has print books on bookshelf stores and an arrangement with Kensington. 6 Samhain books will be released as a Kensington line in the next year or so.

They aren't even in the same ballpark IMO.

Samhain was started by people with actual publishing experience, who had knowledge and connections and knew how to draw people to their website.

You're absolutely right. Different ballpark--different ballgame--entirely.

And as a general rule, I never recommend epublishers who are new, or have after this long in business not made enough of an impact to guarantee semi-decent sales for their authors. My first ebook was with a tiny publisher--it still managed to sell almost 100 copies in the first month (it was the debut book of a new line, which I believe helped, but the fact remains I'd never heard of sales below 25 copies in the first month at any epublisher before, especially not after they've been in business long enough that they should have developed a decent readership.)

If you're looking for a house to submit to there are many others out there.

jennontheisland
06-15-2008, 02:23 AM
...the fact remains I'd never heard of sales below 25 copies in the first month at any epublisher before, especially not after they've been in business long enough that they should have developed a decent readership.)

If you're looking for a house to submit to there are many others out there.


I was very surprised to hear that they've been around almost as long as Samhain. I remember when Samhain opened, and WRP only showed up on my radar about 8 months ago. I think that really says something about their presence.

madmumbler
06-15-2008, 03:26 AM
I have two books with them. One is scheduled for release in December and the other won't be until 2009. TWRP is legitimate and the staff is very friendly. As been stated above, the bulk of their sales comes from e-books. They're still relatively new--2 years as of last month--so, they have a ways to go before they reach Ellora's Cave and Samhain's success status.

In short, you probably won't make a lot of money from TWRP. But if you're okay with that and understand that going in, they're a good group to work with. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the welcome, Sonarbabe. I've been a lurker for a while. *LOL* I just signed a contract with Amira for a paranormal romance, but I've got another romance ms that I'm having a LOT of trouble placing and they suggested TWRP as a possibility. (It's a realistically written romance where the hero is a wheelchair athlete. I have a lot of experience in the adaptive sports world because my son is a w/c athlete.) I've had a depressing number of rejections from agents because no one's comfortable with the subject matter, although many have said the writing is good and I'm getting good peer review crits on it. I figured with the Paralympics this summer in Beijing, and the movie "Quid Pro Quo" coming out, it might garner some interest from traditional agents/publishers, but so far no bites.

I also sent off a query to Cerrwidwyn (sp?) today about it, so I'm ready to admit I want to try to market this as an e-book.

Any other suggestions about possible e-markets?

Deb Kinnard
06-15-2008, 04:24 AM
What!? Harlequin SuperRomance is certainly comfortable with wheeler athletes. Several years ago, Fay Robinson's masterful A MAN LIKE MAC took the Rita, and the hero in that one was a wheelchair athlete/coach/trainer.

Keep trying! IMO.

para
06-15-2008, 03:17 PM
I was very surprised to hear that they've been around almost as long as Samhain. I remember when Samhain opened, and WRP only showed up on my radar about 8 months ago. I think that really says something about their presence.
Yes, they don't seem to be getting their name out there so people go to their website. If I was with them I would be wondering how they are covering costs. I could be wrong but I think Cobblestone Press have been around for a similar length of time. They are getting more than three times the average monthly sales.

madmumbler
06-15-2008, 03:58 PM
What!? Harlequin SuperRomance is certainly comfortable with wheeler athletes. Several years ago, Fay Robinson's masterful A MAN LIKE MAC took the Rita, and the hero in that one was a wheelchair athlete/coach/trainer.

Keep trying! IMO.

Harlequin already turned it down. It's 100k, I don't know if that had something to do with it or not.

And it's not really a "formula" romance either. It's gritty in places. I don't sugar-coat it or give it the "Jerry's Kids" treatment. My son's been competing since he was 6 (he's 12 now), so I've spent a lot of time around w/c athletes. If you've ever seen Murderball, Kevin Orr, the US coach? My son knows him on a first-name basis. In fact my "hook" is if John Callahan met Debbie Macomber and they played Murderball, that's this book. *LOL* (For those of you who don't know, John Callahan is a very snarky, hysterically funny quad cartoonist who is an equal-opportunity pisser-offer. *LOL*)

Yes, it has a happily ever after ending, but there's a lot of peaks and valleys. And the heroine's son is in a w/c, too. Like I said, it's been given a lot of praise, it's usually staying in the top 20 on YouWriteOn.com (as long as I keep remembering to do reviews for credits! *LOL*) and on Novels-L I'm getting good responses. It's getting great responses from other test readers not related to me who have no reason to lie. *LOL*

BUT...it's just one of those....odd stories. I want to write several more based on characters introduced in this book. This one is the "tamest" of the series in terms of disability (and ironically I'm expecting to get slammed from some members of the disability community for not making the hero more disabled) because I want to hook readers, then take them on a ride with the other characters and get into deeper disability issues.

*whew* Sorry. Just got my first cuppa in me and now I'm feeling it. Didn't mean to ramble. *LOL*

Lesli.

para
06-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Well if you were targeting Harlequin's category lines that seems a little long. Most of those run between 50 - 75K. If you had an agent you could try the Mira line that's 100 - 150K.
http://www.eharlequin.com/articlepage.html?articleId=538&chapter=0
I don't know maybe Kensington or Avon?

Khazarkhum
06-16-2008, 08:41 AM
Samhain was started by people with actual publishing experience, who had knowledge and connections and knew how to draw people to their website.


Wasn't Samhain started by people who had been at Ellora's Cave? If so, that's a very different experience than starting from scratch.

Stacia Kane
06-16-2008, 11:20 AM
Wasn't Samhain started by people who had been at Ellora's Cave? If so, that's a very different experience than starting from scratch.

Yep. That's why as a start-up they were a good bet and able to attract some name authors to get themselves on the map. Whereas TWRP still hasn't managed to make itself known to readers.

Khazarkhum
06-17-2008, 05:33 AM
Yep. That's why as a start-up they were a good bet and able to attract some name authors to get themselves on the map. Whereas TWRP still hasn't managed to make itself known to readers.

One of my points exactly! :)

The other being, since TWRP is coming from nowhere, I would expect it to take somewhat longer to gain a solid foothold than Samhain, where there was a ready-made audience.

veinglory
06-17-2008, 05:41 AM
I don't see how they had a ready made audience, really. Or at least the fact I sell well at one press doesn't mean I sell well at another.

Khazarkhum
06-17-2008, 05:54 AM
I don't see how they had a ready made audience, really. Or at least the fact I sell well at one press doesn't mean I sell well at another.

Well, if I like an author I look for her other books. If she's been printed at house X & now is featured at house Y means I'll go to house Y for books. And many people announce where to find their e-books. So I would expect that others do the same, buying their favorite authors no matter where they are.

veinglory
06-17-2008, 05:57 AM
From what I see that effect is surprisingly small. I would see it more as A) [knowing what they are doing] causing both B) [getting good authors] and c) [making good sales]. Not just B) causing C). At least that's how it felt to me as both one of Samhains authors and one of their customers.

Chumplet
06-17-2008, 06:10 AM
TWRP will have three editors at the New Jersey Put Your Heart in a Book Conference. They call it a mini-national.

They are also starting a contest where readers can win a Sony E-Reader. A chance to win with an e-book purchase or you can send in a postcard. They're pre-loading excerpts from TWRP authors on the Reader for the winner. I just hope it's being promoted enough. Maybe I should mention it on my blog?

para
06-17-2008, 12:45 PM
One of my points exactly! :)

The other being, since TWRP is coming from nowhere, I would expect it to take somewhat longer to gain a solid foothold than Samhain, where there was a ready-made audience.

I'm not sure I agree that Samhain had a ready-made audience. I don't think readers all blindly buy books because they like authors. Ok maybe Samhain was an unfair comparison what about Cobblestone Press?

Stacia Kane
06-17-2008, 01:36 PM
I'm not sure I agree that Samhain had a ready-made audience. I don't think readers all blindly buy books because they like authors. Ok maybe Samhain was an unfair comparison what about Cobblestone Press?

Yeah, I feel like I should clarify my earlier statement, where I said Samhain was able to attract name authors to put themselves on the map. While I believe that did help, I think the main reason for their success was simply that they knew what they were doing. They knew how and where to advertise, they knew how and where to make themselves known. They have never behaved any way other than totally professionally in public. They knew how and on what to focus their energies. They had a lot of contacts and connections in publishing.

Cobblestone was started by published authors, if I'm not mistaken.

It can sound like some sort of nepotism or something, I guess, when you're talking about the success of a publisher started by people who were in publishing. It's easy to say that's an unfair comparison to make (in general, that's not aimed at you para). But the fact is, a publisher should have those connections and should have experience in the industry.

veinglory
06-17-2008, 05:42 PM
A Sony reader is a good prize. Is there a press release about that? I accept all romance and erotica related press releases for ERECsite, but very rarely receive any.

jennontheisland
06-17-2008, 06:38 PM
A Sony reader is a good prize. Is there a press release about that? I accept all romance and erotica related press releases for ERECsite, but very rarely receive any.

I've seen it mentioned on one writer's board. It is a good prize, but it's being announced as sponsored by authors so I'm not sure if it's a publisher promo or an author one.

"All this summer (June 11 – August 31), every time you purchase a title by any of these sponsoring authors (see list below), you will be eligible to enter our drawing to win a SONY eReader. The drawing will be held on Tuesday evening, September 2, 2008 at our weekly chat (9:00 p.m. eastern). (You do not need to be present in the chat room to win)."

ETA: I just confirmed with one of the authors. It is author sponsored. 50 authors each contributed $10 to the purchase of the ereader and advertising to promo the event.

Sheryl Nantus
06-17-2008, 07:35 PM
Yeah, I feel like I should clarify my earlier statement, where I said Samhain was able to attract name authors to put themselves on the map. While I believe that did help, I think the main reason for their success was simply that they knew what they were doing. They knew how and where to advertise, they knew how and where to make themselves known. They have never behaved any way other than totally professionally in public. They knew how and on what to focus their energies. They had a lot of contacts and connections in publishing.

Cobblestone was started by published authors, if I'm not mistaken.

It can sound like some sort of nepotism or something, I guess, when you're talking about the success of a publisher started by people who were in publishing. It's easy to say that's an unfair comparison to make (in general, that's not aimed at you para). But the fact is, a publisher should have those connections and should have experience in the industry.

definitely - you may be an excellent writer but not have the business sense to run a publishing house. No harm, no foul there.

the harm AND the foul is when you get people opening up publishers with nothing more than a wish and a thought that they'd like to be in charge - they don't do the research, don't cultivate the contacts and don't understand the business. They don't get a distributor, they don't work the system to get their books out to the customers and they end up closing quickly enough when the business becomes a nightmare. And end up screwing the authors in the end.

I'm always surprised when people don't understand that publishing is a BUSINESS. It's not a part-time job, it's not a hobby. If it is, then at least be honest to your authors and tell them that it's that to you. If you want to be taken seriously as a publisher you have to put the time and work in as if it were any other business.

Jennifer Robins
06-29-2008, 07:22 PM
The wild Rose Press is offering me another contract on a short story I sent them a few months ago. It needs a little revising but that's not a problem. I'm still waiting for edits on my full length novel, An Authors Nightmare but my editor has kept me informed of the progress. No complaints here.

Jennifer Robins
www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)

Saanen
12-09-2008, 03:32 AM
A friend of my mother's has a story available through Wild Rose that she's heavily self-promoting. She gave my mother a postcard with her story's information on it with the URL http://www.wildrosepress.com/ but when I go to that page, it's just a list of "sponsored listings"--ads for self-publishing, basically. Anyone know what's going on with that? This is just curiosity on my part, mostly, since I don't even write romance. :)

Jersey Chick
12-09-2008, 03:33 AM
Wild Rose's URL is www.thewildrosepress.com

Your friend's mom left off the "the". :D

Saanen
12-09-2008, 03:37 AM
Yeah, she left off the "the" of the URL. She should have checked before she had the postcards printed. The real page looks professional.

Stacia Kane
12-09-2008, 04:52 AM
Yeah, she left off the "the" of the URL. She should have checked before she had the postcards printed. The real page looks professional.


*facepalm*

That poor woman.

para
03-18-2009, 12:53 PM
Anyone know what's going on with twrp? Wondered over to the website to check out a book and got this message
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to the site owner reaching his/her bandwidth limit. Please try again later.
http://www.thewildrosepress.com/

M.R.J. Le Blanc
03-18-2009, 05:23 PM
Unless they buy more bandwidth, you can pretty much forget seeing them up again until next month. Sites are given so much bandwidth to run when using server providers. Once you're used up your only options are to buy more or wait the month out. Unless there's a third I don't know about.

veinglory
03-18-2009, 06:16 PM
I have my personal site set so that if I exceed they notify me and charge me for overage--but the site stays up.

para
03-18-2009, 07:58 PM
Hmm they must have paid their webhost, site appears to be working again.

sumthinirote
05-13-2009, 08:01 AM
My novel Sleeping With Skeletons was just accepted by Wild Rose Press for their Crimson Rose Line. It's the first book I've ever had accepted. My experience with them has been great. Does anyone know how long it takes to get a book cover typically? I was told it would be about three weeks on mine, and I wondered if that's common, or really fast? It seems like it must be fast, but I don't have anything to compare it to. Does anyone know? I've been really curious about that. Thanks.

wannawrite
05-13-2009, 06:52 PM
Congrats, sumthinirote! Way to go!

Jennifer Robins
05-13-2009, 08:44 PM
sumthinirote,
they are fast about the covers, I got mine within a short time after signing on. they will let you look at a webiste for idea's. that is if they still do that. My avatar is the cover we came up with for my book. Editing took a while but I'm now on the last round. Hang in there it's worth it. Congrat's

sumthinirote
05-14-2009, 11:09 PM
Congrats, sumthinirote! Way to go!
thank you! Been working on this a long time... usually I hear, 'sorry, it's not quite right for us.'

sumthinirote
05-14-2009, 11:14 PM
sumthinirote,
they are fast about the covers, I got mine within a short time after signing on. they will let you look at a webiste for idea's. that is if they still do that. My avatar is the cover we came up with for my book. Editing took a while but I'm now on the last round. Hang in there it's worth it. Congrat's
I really like your cover. What's the book about? And thanks for answering. I thought that was really fast. I was thinking it would take months to get a book cover. I still don't have mine yet, but I'm going over the galleys, so that's keeping me occupied. Everything has been happening so fast that it's been making my head spin. Thanks and good luck with your novel. I'll keep an eye out for it. I hope you post here when it's released.

bookgirl71
06-09-2009, 05:05 PM
HI.

Has anyone dealt with this online publisher lately? They responded quickly to my query and have requested my full.
I know they are POD and books are able to be ordered from bookstores and also to have books available for signings but I was curious if anyone published by them have actually gotten to have the thrill of getting one of their books on an actual shelf?

sumthinirote
06-10-2009, 07:22 AM
Hi Bookgirl71,

I'm in the process of publishing with them. My friend Molly recently published her novel The Ghost Downstairs with them. They are quick. They were quick with Molly, and they were fast with me, too. I just sent in my last galley, and I'm waiting for my release date. They get to the covers really fast too. I had mine within three weeks after sending in my author information sheet. The cover is great. I'm going to try to post that here as an avatar. If you want to see it, it's at: http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html

I don't know if Molly's book is on shelves; however, I have joined their Yahoo groups, and some of the authors in the groups do have their books on bookshelves. I think they are in local bookstores that they approached to do book signings.

I love The Wild Rose Press. My entire experience with them so far has been a great one. They're not a traditional publisher, but my editor e-mailed me yesterday and told me that one of her authors just landed an agent and a contract with a traditional publisher. The Wild Rose Press opened the doors for her.

I have no complaints about The Wild Rose Press, and I understand they were listed as the editor of the year last year at Preditors and Editors.

Doralynn

brainstorm77
06-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Harlequin already turned it down. It's 100k, I don't know if that had something to do with it or not.

And it's not really a "formula" romance either. It's gritty in places. I don't sugar-coat it or give it the "Jerry's Kids" treatment. My son's been competing since he was 6 (he's 12 now), so I've spent a lot of time around w/c athletes. If you've ever seen Murderball, Kevin Orr, the US coach? My son knows him on a first-name basis. In fact my "hook" is if John Callahan met Debbie Macomber and they played Murderball, that's this book. *LOL* (For those of you who don't know, John Callahan is a very snarky, hysterically funny quad cartoonist who is an equal-opportunity pisser-offer. *LOL*)

Yes, it has a happily ever after ending, but there's a lot of peaks and valleys. And the heroine's son is in a w/c, too. Like I said, it's been given a lot of praise, it's usually staying in the top 20 on YouWriteOn.com (as long as I keep remembering to do reviews for credits! *LOL*) and on Novels-L I'm getting good responses. It's getting great responses from other test readers not related to me who have no reason to lie. *LOL*

BUT...it's just one of those....odd stories. I want to write several more based on characters introduced in this book. This one is the "tamest" of the series in terms of disability (and ironically I'm expecting to get slammed from some members of the disability community for not making the hero more disabled) because I want to hook readers, then take them on a ride with the other characters and get into deeper disability issues.

*whew* Sorry. Just got my first cuppa in me and now I'm feeling it. Didn't mean to ramble. *LOL*

Lesli.

For that length with Harlequin it would have to go into their Mira line and they only accept agented submissions for that line.

bookgirl71
06-10-2009, 05:25 PM
Thanks for responding. I'm excited to hear back from them. Do you mind my asking which editor you are working with? I've been in touch with Susan Yates and from her emails she seems super nice. She's always responded back a good week or two earlier than she's promised. Her estimated response time to my full is August 3rd so with her track record, I'm hoping it's earlier.

I have my ms out with a few agents that I queried a while ago and still haven't heard back yet, so I guess it's a matter of who responds first.
If I hold out for an agent in NY, then I'll lose my chance with TWRP, should they call.

I think TWRP is a fantastic way to get a foot in the door. They are small but sound like the real deal.

---you're cover is really good, by the way.

another question. . . how did they tell you they wanted to publish you? Was it an email or phone call?

Irysangel
06-10-2009, 06:10 PM
I might have missed it, but has anyone shared sales in regards to The Wild Rose Press? Emily Veinglory's site states that there's insufficient data. That's mildly concerning to me, since they've been around for at least a year or two now, haven't they?

veinglory
06-10-2009, 06:48 PM
I got some sales reports for a while and then all went quiet. In other cases where this happened, and I don't know if this is true for WRP, that meant the publisher requested authors not to report figures. But the last figures I had for them were for sales in the first year of around 20 copies. I hope it is higher now.

In terms of seeing book on shelves. I travel a lot for work and always check out stores for romance PODs. I have yet to see a WRP book.

sumthinirote
06-10-2009, 07:27 PM
Thanks for responding. I'm excited to hear back from them. Do you mind my asking which editor you are working with? I've been in touch with Susan Yates and from her emails she seems super nice. She's always responded back a good week or two earlier than she's promised. Her estimated response time to my full is August 3rd so with her track record, I'm hoping it's earlier.

I have my ms out with a few agents that I queried a while ago and still haven't heard back yet, so I guess it's a matter of who responds first.
If I hold out for an agent in NY, then I'll lose my chance with TWRP, should they call.

I think TWRP is a fantastic way to get a foot in the door. They are small but sound like the real deal.

---you're cover is really good, by the way.

another question. . . how did they tell you they wanted to publish you? Was it an email or phone call?
My editor is Laura Kelly, and it's been great working with her. She responds promptly and always ahead of her initial estimates. Molly had the same experience with them, but she had a different editor.

I've seen some negative comments about WRP, but they seem to be coming from people who haven't had publishing contracts with them. I will say one thing, you are expected to promote your own book... which I would have done even if a large publishing house had picked up my ms. WRP does have strategies to help authors do that. I'm a marketer, so I know how to market. I'm not worried about that, but a lot of writers have no desire to market and no experience with it either, and that's understandable.

I am friends with one of their top selling authors, and she has great sales with them, but she won an Eppie recently, and I know that helped her sales. I've read posts from writers who are also doing very well when it comes to sales. WRP doesn't place in bookstores, but there are writers who approach their local bookstores, or bookstores where they're traveling, and they are getting them placed and doing book signings. They do have a variety of online booksellers: Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders, Kensington, and others. They also publish in several formats: Kindle, PDF, print.

From what I see in the groups, they treat all of their authors like royalty... not sure how many big publishing houses do that. And unlike most big publishing houses, they're approachable without an agent. For me, finding an agent has been like finding the Loch Ness Monster. And getting to a publisher without an agent is like getting to the moon without NASA.

Good luck with your decision. It's tough knowing which way to go. I'm still waiting for responses from agents on the book being published by WRP, and I'd been sending out queries since October. Of course, I've stopped now, and I'm focusing on my current manuscript which is 3/4 of the way finished. It's a mystery/crime story, so WRP won't be interested in it.

Thanks for taking a look at my cover! Glad you liked it! It was done by Kim Mendoza.

Doralynn

jennontheisland
06-10-2009, 07:33 PM
I am friends with one of their top selling authors, and she has great sales with them, but she won an Eppie recently, and I know that helped her sales. I've read posts from writers who are also doing very well when it comes to sales.

Doralynn,

I'm glad to hear you and your friends are doing well with sales. Perhaps you would be willing to share that info with Veinglory for her site that tracks sales figures for romance epublishers?

She posted above you asking for info. Her website that tracks sales is http://www.erecsite.com

(Personally, I think everyone should give Veinglory their sales data. She does wonderful things for the epublishing industry.)

triceretops
06-10-2009, 08:00 PM
I second this notion. I would rather go to her site for information than any other on the subject of e-publishing. She's one of the most successful e-pub authors I know, and trust her judgement.

Tri

veinglory
06-10-2009, 08:12 PM
I appreciate the vote of confidence but note I experience very average sales as an author and haven't even written anything new this year, my profile comes only from the ERECsite. I don't pressure anyone to provide sales data but it is totally anonymous and can be sent to veinglory@gmail.com (copies old via all venues during first month/quarterand total to date, first year and to end of contract if you have it). And yes, the website needs an overhaul, I am hoping to do that soon).

sumthinirote
06-10-2009, 08:25 PM
Doralynn,

I'm glad to hear you and your friends are doing well with sales. Perhaps you would be willing to share that info with Veinglory for her site that tracks sales figures for romance epublishers?

She posted above you asking for info. Her website that tracks sales is http://www.erecsite.com

(Personally, I think everyone should give Veinglory their sales data. She does wonderful things for the epublishing industry.)
I mentioned in an earlier post on this page that my book is not released yet. I just sent in my final galley, and I'm waiting for a release date. That should be no later that early April though. I don't have sales figures for anyone. Everything I know about sales is what I read in the WRP Yahoo Groups and what I get in personal e-mails from friends who are published there. But I don't share personal information sent to me by friends. To do so would be inappropriate and might lose me a friend. They need to make that decision for themselves.

Doralynn

bookgirl71
06-10-2009, 09:18 PM
I'm not worried about the marketing. A while back I was researching how to get a POD book on a shelf in Barnes & Noble and I spoke with the marketing director who told me it's relatively easy. So at least I can do that and book signings. I plan on creating a webpage with a blog and maybe running a few contests. If you have any other helpful ideas and would feel ok sharing them, I'd love to hear them. I'm new at this, so I'm sure there's something I missed.

You didn't mention, does WRP contact via email to tell you if they've accepted a ms?

I know all writers feel the same as far as the query rollercoaster goes.
Like I said, my ms is still out with some agents, good names too. Some have never responded, some have partials, some have fulls but I'm looking out for myself and not sitting around waiting for one. I have my ms in alot of inboxes and chances are, hopefully anyway, someone will want it.
My full is even out with a Penguin imprint and the wait is agonizing but on the chance that they don't take it, I'm grateful that WRP is considering it. Like I said, whoever calls first - that's what I'm going with.

jennontheisland
06-10-2009, 09:36 PM
I mentioned in an earlier post on this page that my book is not released yet. I just sent in my final galley, and I'm waiting for a release date. That should be no later that early April though. I don't have sales figures for anyone. Everything I know about sales is what I read in the WRP Yahoo Groups and what I get in personal e-mails from friends who are published there. But I don't share personal information sent to me by friends. To do so would be inappropriate and might lose me a friend. They need to make that decision for themselves.

Doralynn


Perhaps my post could have been worded better. I was not suggesting you offer anyone's data but your own, once you have it.

I also know people pubbed with WRP who have offered me sales info (some hard numbers, some vague comparisons) and I suggested to each of them that they also share that data with Veinglory since she can't (well, she could but it wouldn't be overly useful) put up sales numbers without a representative sample.

Whether or not any of those people actually went on to offer data is unknown. I never followed up since, as you say, it's entirely their choice.

sumthinirote
06-10-2009, 10:45 PM
I'm not worried about the marketing. A while back I was researching how to get a POD book on a shelf in Barnes & Noble and I spoke with the marketing director who told me it's relatively easy. So at least I can do that and book signings. I plan on creating a webpage with a blog and maybe running a few contests. If you have any other helpful ideas and would feel ok sharing them, I'd love to hear them. I'm new at this, so I'm sure there's something I missed.

You didn't mention, does WRP contact via email to tell you if they've accepted a ms?

I know all writers feel the same as far as the query rollercoaster goes.
Like I said, my ms is still out with some agents, good names too. Some have never responded, some have partials, some have fulls but I'm looking out for myself and not sitting around waiting for one. I have my ms in alot of inboxes and chances are, hopefully anyway, someone will want it.
My full is even out with a Penguin imprint and the wait is agonizing but on the chance that they don't take it, I'm grateful that WRP is considering it. Like I said, whoever calls first - that's what I'm going with.
First, congratulations on getting a request for a full from a Penguin imprint. Well done!

As for The Wild Rose Press, my editor notified me by e-mail. Sorry I forgot to answer that earlier. The first step was that my editor made a request for a contract from the senior editor. Her approval came through a week later, and that was also by e-mail. I've never had a phone call from them.

After you've filled out your contract, and the author information packet, you'll receive a promo packet. It has a lot of steps--running contests, which you mentioned, and joining their Yahoo groups are big ones, as are blogs. The authors that are there help the other authors out. Apart from marketing techniques you'll learn from them, there are other things you can do. They will provide you with a banner to use in marketing. You can also use your book cover. I've noticed that you can place ads with AOL for as little as $100. I'll be doing that. https://aol.adsonar.com/admin/advertisers/indexPl.do There is also Google AdWords, though I don't know how effective they would be for marketing books. But you can set a really low budget and see if it works.

I've already started placing banner ads at several places online. I am just using free traffic exchanges and safelists right now, but I've already received over 50 requests for my release date and updates. That doesn't include the interests from family, friends, fellow volunteers, and former co-workers.

When my book is close to release, I will start placing some low cost ads in local papers and in online sources... maybe Craigslist or Back Page, or The Independent.

I have also done some trailers. You can view them at: http://www.doralynn.net/trailers.html I did them myself, and it didn't cost much. There are places doing trailers for as little as $250. I used Windows Movie Maker to create mine. You can buy royalty free images from several different sources. You can buy royalty free music from several sources as well. One good place is:
http://incompetech.com/m/c/royalty-free/

WRP will place your videos on their site, but you can also place them elsewhere, such as YouTube or Google Videos. I have mine on my site, but they are linked from YouTube. You can promote them through YouTube, which is something I plan to do in the future.

There are a myriad of ways to market. Those are just a few ideas.

Doralynn

sumthinirote
06-10-2009, 10:49 PM
Perhaps my post could have been worded better. I was not suggesting you offer anyone's data but your own, once you have it.

I also know people pubbed with WRP who have offered me sales info (some hard numbers, some vague comparisons) and I suggested to each of them that they also share that data with Veinglory since she can't (well, she could but it wouldn't be overly useful) put up sales numbers without a representative sample.

Whether or not any of those people actually went on to offer data is unknown. I never followed up since, as you say, it's entirely their choice.
I did misunderstand... probably just me though... plus, I may have accidentally combined your post with another one that came after yours. I'll consider that, but financial information is very personal. I read that it's anonymous, so that makes me feel a little better about it.

bookgirl71
06-10-2009, 11:11 PM
Thanks so much! This forum is so helpful as are the wonderful people who are listed here. It's like a big happy family. (Aaah)

Just one more thing. Based on how quickly WRP moves, I'm guessing I'll hear from them before I hear from Razorbill or the other agents that have my ms.

I suppose I should contact everyone and ask where they are at in evaluating my ms and take it from there.

In your opinion which would you take? An agent - which doesn't guarrantee publication, just a pitch to an unapproachable publishing house or WRP which is small but definitely publication?

Stacia Kane
06-10-2009, 11:15 PM
Like I said, my ms is still out with some agents, good names too. Some have never responded, some have partials, some have fulls but I'm looking out for myself and not sitting around waiting for one. I have my ms in alot of inboxes and chances are, hopefully anyway, someone will want it.
My full is even out with a Penguin imprint and the wait is agonizing but on the chance that they don't take it, I'm grateful that WRP is considering it. Like I said, whoever calls first - that's what I'm going with.

I don't mean to derail the topic here, but I did want to suggest that "going with whoever calls first" is not necessarily a good way to run your career. :)

WRP is a very small epublisher. Even at the largest and most successful ehouses, you'll make more money selling to NY. NY will get your books in stores; WRP won't.

Obviously only you can decide what's best for you, and I would never suggest you're wrong about those decisions. But I would suggest that you give the matter serious thought. Not all publishing, and not all publishers, are equal, and sometimes it's best to wait.

I wish you all the best!


ETA: Just saw your latest post. I would go with an agent, hands-down. They do much more than simply submit your book. If the book fails to sell, then you can consider epublishing; if one ehouse wanted it another is sure to feel the same. Don't sell yourself short. Aim high!!! :)

bookgirl71
06-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Thanks. Sometimes the road to publishing or even getting a query noticed seems long and tedious. I sometimes lose sight of what I really want - which is to make it big. Yes, I want my book on a shelf. Yes, I want a uber agent. Who wouldn't??? But when you get rejection after rejection and when your requested full becomes a big fat fizzle you lose that zest and begin to think a small publisher is a definite yes, not a maybe.

Thanks for your advice and encouragement!! I've been needing that!

sumthinirote
06-11-2009, 12:13 AM
Hey Bookgirl71, I agree with DecemberQuinn. If I'd had the option of an agent, I would have gone with that... even if it meant giving up a sure thing.

bookgirl71
06-11-2009, 12:34 AM
thanks guys. I guess I'm just going to have to wait and see what happens. If an agent comes first then I'm going for it.

If WRP offers anything then I'm going to contact the big NY people and nudge them. If there are no takers then WRP is meant to be it.

Writer2011
06-11-2009, 12:36 AM
I personally haven't dealt with WRP but have been to their site many, many times. I guess sometimes it's good to start small, get your name out there..that sort of thing. Then again, I honestly don't know what to think :)

bookgirl71
06-11-2009, 12:40 AM
I know, it's difficult.
If you were faced with taking a small press that publishes ebooks and paperbacks, knowing your book could get on a shelf in your local bookstore but not nation wide - would you take it?

Or do you hold out for the dream???

Writer2011
06-11-2009, 12:45 AM
I sent you a PM bookgirl

veinglory
06-11-2009, 01:44 AM
I haven't found getting a POD on bookshelves terribly easy, and that is for one that is returnable.

Sheryl Nantus
06-11-2009, 03:25 AM
I'm not worried about the marketing. A while back I was researching how to get a POD book on a shelf in Barnes & Noble and I spoke with the marketing director who told me it's relatively easy..

Uh.. no. It's not.

brainstorm77
06-11-2009, 03:29 AM
Uh.. no. It's not.

Just what I thought. I read of authors bringing in their own books themselves into bookstores and getting refused directly.

Jersey Chick
06-11-2009, 03:58 AM
I think that partially depends on the publisher -

At one point, TWRP talked about moving more toward getting books in stores. Then, about a year ago, that kind of faded into the background. I've never seen a TWRP book on the shelf in either my local Borders or B&N.

brainstorm77
06-11-2009, 04:00 AM
Ok, this may be a stupid question but how would a small press like The Wild Rose Press go about getting their books into stores?

veinglory
06-11-2009, 04:09 AM
You need to offer a deep discount and returnability and then have staff market each book to the buyers for the major chains. But in the current climate even big authors like Bujold aren't getting picked up by all the chains. Borders is cutting way back.

brainstorm77
06-11-2009, 04:10 AM
You need to offer a deep discount and returnability and then have staff market each book to the buyers for the major chains. But in the current climate even big authors like Bujold aren't getting picked up by all the chains. Borders is cutting way back.

So, only certain titles might get picked up by the sellers?

veinglory
06-11-2009, 04:17 AM
That is my understanding. Some presses with get most of their books carried, some only a few. If your book can't be ordered under standard terms from a big distributor it is a tough row to how. It can be wise for a small press to focus on other methods like online and indy stores--rather than risk being buried by returns.

brainstorm77
06-11-2009, 04:20 AM
That is my understanding. Some presses with get most of their books carried, some only a few. If your book can't be ordered under standard tersm from a big distributor it is a tough row to how. It can be wise for a small press to focus on other methids like online and indy stores--rather than risk being buried by returns.

Thanks for answering me :)

Jersey Chick
06-11-2009, 04:25 AM
I know the romance section in my local B&N is roughly 1 1/2 aisles (if that makes any sense - I don't know how else to describe it, really.) - it's smaller than it used to be.

I haven't been in Borders in a while, though...

veinglory
06-11-2009, 04:33 AM
Borders has massively reduced the number of titles they carry. Most of the POD romance I see there is older stock.

Jersey Chick
06-11-2009, 05:41 AM
**sigh**

stupid economy

bookgirl71
06-11-2009, 04:40 PM
Hi everyone. Last December I contacted my local B&N to ask if a certain epublisher whose books go to print was ever shelved and if not, how could the public order them. This was not WRP but another publisher who had my full and I was doing a bit of research on them in anticipation of being offered a contract.
I spoke with the marketing director at B&N who told me that as long as the book as an ISBN number then I could fill out a request form. It would only be for the one store - as each B&N runs separately from one another. She would then see to it that I could have my chance of seeing my book on a shelf, in a small quantity. Another way to get it there was to do a book signing and the remainder would then be shelved. She also said that particular store has actual POD books on the shelves now. Granted they are slow movers but as long as the book was priced competitively and it was able to be ordered from B&N.com it was pretty much a sure thing.
If the remainder of books from a signing sold then they would look into reordering.

veinglory
06-11-2009, 06:30 PM
Be aware that I had the same promise from two B&Ns and they never did it. I had the same promise *on three separate occasions* from my local Borders where I hold my writers group every week (including an offer to do a signing) and they also never followed through and shelved the book--despite the book being offered on standard terms and there being other books from the same press on their shelves *and* may book having been sporadically shelved in other Borders stores. You may have a happier experience but I have found that talk is cheap.

JulieB
06-11-2009, 06:40 PM
I think it depends on the manager and the persistence of the author. The B&N closest to me actually has a PA book on the shelf. All things about PA aside, the premise wasn't my cup of tea. But this author has been all of the place getting signings at B&N and Borders stores. I get the impression she's very, very persistent.

bookgirl71
06-11-2009, 07:02 PM
It doesn't hurt to be persistent especially if you're going POD - you're already committing to market your own book. But that stinks veinglory, 3 promises. Ouch.
I do need to mention that the MD at my B&N shares a mutual friend with me, so maybe that's helping?

veinglory
06-11-2009, 07:09 PM
I asked about every two weeks for about six months. Then I admit I did give up. It seems that 5 minutes after I leave they go back to assuming all POD is non-returnable.

bookgirl71
06-11-2009, 07:13 PM
Sorry. Now I'm beginning to think otherwise.

Lainey Bancroft
06-12-2009, 03:49 AM
Congrats, bookgirl71!

You have an offer. That means you've got the goods.

But as others have mentioned, do your homework. Don't take the first responder unless you're comfortable with ALL the terms.

I have a few things with Wild Rose. Are they terrific to work with? Yes! Supportive. Responsive. Enthusiastic. Even business savvy--in that their POD's are non-returnable--after a certain amount of returns they made the very business-like decision to not go down the tubes with some other e to print pubs by allowing authors to order books at publisher expense that might not sell.

This means you buy your own books at a discount and are responsible for placing them.

If you have a solid marketing/signing/distribution on consignment plan in mind, you can make this work, If you're thinking if I publish it, they will come, think again.

bookgirl71
06-12-2009, 04:44 PM
Hi Lainey,

I actually don't have an "offer" YET. I'm anticipating what to do should an offer come. My full was requested by WRP and things have moved quite rapidly to get to the point where I am now.
I'm still doing my homework about them should it take a more serious turn.

Their website states that their books ARE returnable and therefore may be ordered by bookstores, not necessarily the author. I've emailed an editor to clarify this and if an offer comes I'm prepared to go over all the terms. It doesn't say anywhere on the website that authors must purchase their own books and place them.

Any WRP authors out there, please feel free to explain.

triceretops
06-12-2009, 08:06 PM
Just saying that it's possible they'll pass on a full. They did with me. So remember, it ain't a done deal till the ink is splashed on the contract. Query and submit in the meantime--like Unc Jim says, "Till hell won't have it."

Tri

veinglory
06-12-2009, 08:10 PM
I believe they went back to being non-returnable. But if you find out for sure please let us know.

Karen Junker
06-15-2009, 10:12 PM
I talked to one of the owners of The Wild Rose Press and she says the company's current policy is: Books are returnable until we set the specific title to no returns - but that happens only after we've reached our limit and talked to the author, it's not automatic. We've only done this on a handful.

bookgirl71
06-15-2009, 10:27 PM
That's good to know. Thank you.
I wonder what determines the limit?

Also, Iwas told that the number of books available for a book signing varies and is usually at the author's discretion. Not to sound stupid - but what does that mean exactly? The author has input on how many books are ordered for a signing?

smlgr8
06-15-2009, 11:48 PM
The Wild Rose Press encourages the author to order the books for any book signing so that is why they tell you that the author has input into how many are ordered.

veinglory
06-16-2009, 12:19 AM
But typically the bookstore would ask for the book details and order the books. Larger stores may not be able to sell book not on their inventory, indy stores or stores with a hands-on manager are much more felxible.

smlgr8
06-16-2009, 12:26 AM
Well I can only speak from my experience there having had two books with them. The preference was that the author ordered the books for a signing from the publisher rather than having the book store ordering them as that would cut down on returns. If a bookstore ordered too many and returned them that became a big issue for them which is why the preference was the author provide them for signings.

I have never had a signing myself so I am not sure exactly how it worked.

Lainey Bancroft
06-16-2009, 03:37 AM
The preference was that the author ordered the books for a signing from the publisher rather than having the book store ordering them as that would cut down on returns. If a bookstore ordered too many and returned them that became a big issue for them which is why the preference was the author provide them for signings.

Agreed. I looked back through all the correspondence when my first WRP novel went to print and I was not told outright that there were NO returns. At one point there was talk of having a strict 'no returns' policy, but the current WRP author's manual states they'll accept 'limited returns.' Seeing as I have no Borders or B&N stores locally (I'm Canadian, we have Chapters and Coles, and the shipping difference to Ontario--even though NY is literally minutes away from me--is astronomical!) So for me, it does make more sense to order the books and not have to 'pay the piper' if returnability becomes an issue, and when they say 'limited' they do mean it. If you have an XYZ # of copies in your head that you think would be 'reasonable' to expect a bookstore to order for a signing, please share and I'll share whether you're in the ball park or not.

Thing is, POD is great in many ways. I've done well at the small local signings I've arranged--outside of book stores. My books are nice quality trade paperbacks I'd put up against any other trade paperback, but totally NOT "cost competetive" in a bookstore as someone else in the thread brought up. I can order them at author discount and arrange my own signing and do okay. A bookstore? Not so much. When you can grab a mass market paperback by recognized names for $4.00-$8.00, how likely are you to reach for an 'unknown name' for $13.00-$15.00?

Not trying to be a wet sheet at all. Just hoping to offer the 'reality' so you have a clear idea what to expect...because I didn't. I have a clearer picture now and a much better idea of how to build on things, but it isn't as simple as just getting a book store to agree to order/stock books.

Good luck! Hope you get positive news from WRP. They really are wonderful to work with and growing every day.

sumthinirote
06-26-2009, 11:45 PM
I thought I'd mention something that I haven't seen brought up. This is a new agreement, but I think it addresses the issue being discussed. I recently received this e-mail from WRP. I doubt they'd mind me sharing this because this is great news for writers with WRP and those considering them.

****

We've just signed an agreement with Lightning Source Inc to include all of our print titles in their new Espresso Book Machine sales channel.

"Lightning Source is pleased to announce the launch the Espresso Book Machine (EBM) Channel officially at BookExpo America starting this Friday. The EBM, an ATM for books, is located in bookstores, libraries and other sites. The Espresso Book Machine is the latest pioneering distribution channel to join the Lightning Source family of publisher-to- market pathways.

The Lightning Source Espresso Book Machine Channel will give publishers the option to make available the books they have stored in the Lightning Source digital library, and have those titles printed, bound, and delivered at point of sale, on demand, in minutes."

To learn more, go to http://www.lightnin gsource.com/ ebm.aspx (http://www.lightningsource.com/ebm.aspx)

****

I'm excited about it... looks to me like this is the ticket into bookstores and libraries.

Doralynn

para
06-27-2009, 03:30 PM
Honestly I don't see the any difference to what is going on now. Your book is still not on the shelves of a book store. You will not be getting any passing traffic, anyone who goes to the book store is still going to have to be specifically looking for your book. Instead of ordering and waiting weeks they can now get it printed in about half an hour.

bookgirl71
06-27-2009, 06:19 PM
I think it sounds pretty cool, another outlet for authors looking for another bridge to get their books in the public spotlight. Ok, so the books are not on the shelves, they're in a little ATM. But still . . . just a little elbow grease with advertising to get your title out there and people will look your book up. Not to mention, people will certainly be intrigued and begin to browse which is what they do when they walk up and down an aisle any way. I've found alot of amazing books perusing Barnes & Noble.com and these books were not found on the shelf. It didn't stop me from ordering them.
I think if this takes off, it could end up being successful.

Juneluv12
06-27-2009, 06:35 PM
What blows me away is that people with major agents sometimes don't get carried in all bookstores. For first time writers, it's very hard. I've heard from two AWers with top NYC agents that Borders doesn't carry and Barnes and Noble can be sporadic.

So, sometimes it's a hit or miss either way.

CaoPaux
06-27-2009, 06:40 PM
What do agents have to do with getting books on shelves? They are not the publisher's marketers. Yes, even the biggest publisher cannot guarantee your book on every shelf, but your chances are astronomically better with them than with a POD having no distribution and marketing at all.

Juneluv12
06-27-2009, 06:59 PM
What do agents have to do with getting books on shelves? They are not the publisher's marketers. Yes, even the biggest publisher cannot guarantee your book on every shelf, but your chances are astronomically better with them than with a POD having no distribution and marketing at all.

I guess I was just referencing my own prior naivete about the publishing industry that a lot of people share.....NY Agent....Awesome Publisher....equals distribution in all major chains. But it doesn't.

And maybe that's not the route for everyone.....

CaoPaux
06-27-2009, 07:12 PM
Perhaps, but don't confuse the macro and the micro. I.e., Awesome Publisher can get their books everywhere. Whether a particular book of theirs gets everywhere depends upon a great many factors.

para
06-27-2009, 07:49 PM
I think it sounds pretty cool, another outlet for authors looking for another bridge to get their books in the public spotlight. Ok, so the books are not on the shelves, they're in a little ATM. But still . . . just a little elbow grease with advertising to get your title out there and people will look your book up. Not to mention, people will certainly be intrigued and begin to browse which is what they do when they walk up and down an aisle any way. I've found alot of amazing books perusing Barnes & Noble.com and these books were not found on the shelf. It didn't stop me from ordering them.
I think if this takes off, it could end up being successful.

I think the Machine is a good idea but I don't think author's shouldn't kid themselves that this is akin to getting your books on the shelves of a book store. It's not. There will be hundreds of thousands if not millions of books in the catalogue of this book machine. The chances that someone will be browsing the catalogue and just stumble across your book and buy it is very unlikely. They will need to be looking for it. So I agree advertising is going to be very important.

IIRC from the news item the books from the book machine will be more expensive than the books you can pick up on the shelves so I think that will also cut down on the curiosity purchases. So it is not the same as browsing the catalogue of an online bookstore where you can pick up books cheaper than rrp.

michael_b
06-27-2009, 08:03 PM
I thought I'd mention something that I haven't seen brought up. This is a new agreement, but I think it addresses the issue being discussed. I recently received this e-mail from WRP. I doubt they'd mind me sharing this because this is great news for writers with WRP and those considering them.

****

We've just signed an agreement with Lightning Source Inc to include all of our print titles in their new Espresso Book Machine sales channel.

"Lightning Source is pleased to announce the launch the Espresso Book Machine (EBM) Channel officially at BookExpo America starting this Friday. The EBM, an ATM for books, is located in bookstores, libraries and other sites. The Espresso Book Machine is the latest pioneering distribution channel to join the Lightning Source family of publisher-to- market pathways.

The Lightning Source Espresso Book Machine Channel will give publishers the option to make available the books they have stored in the Lightning Source digital library, and have those titles printed, bound, and delivered at point of sale, on demand, in minutes."

To learn more, go to http://www.lightnin gsource.com/ ebm.aspx (http://www.lightningsource.com/ebm.aspx)

****

I'm excited about it... looks to me like this is the ticket into bookstores and libraries.

Doralynn

My other question here would be exactly how many bookstores have actually signed up to have one of these machines? This is going to take up a chunk of floorspace and I'm unsure how many stores will be willing to move things around to accommodate something like this. Also, how much noise will it make? If it makes too much noise bookstores won't want it. There are other things to consider here too. How much time and attention will the machine take for the store employees? Who reloads the toners/inks and paper when they run out? How big a learning curve is there in refilling the machine with toner/ink and paper. If it's too complicated, or requires a service call are bookstores going to want to deal with it?

I doubt any library would place one as they aren't in the business of selling books, just loaning them. If they have to take money for books there aren't many libraries that are going to be willing to effectively act as a bookseller. Most libraries have limited staff, and I'm sure they aren't going to foot the cost for patrons to print books.

Such machines have been available in the UK and in some European countries for a while now. I haven't seen any information on how well they've worked beyond the initial articles that they were being tried.

I'm going to wait and see how this plays out, and what booksellers/chains pick it up before I get too excited regarding this prospect.

And if these books do cost significantly more than typical POD, that's going to hurt even more since many people will pick two cheaper mass market paperback books over one much more costly print-while-you-wait title.

victoriastrauss
06-27-2009, 11:26 PM
My other question here would be exactly how many bookstores have actually signed up to have one of these machines?

I saw a demonstration of the Espresso at BEA (tres cool--it's actually very compact, maybe 6' or 7' long by 3' wide by 5' high, and as easy to use as a copier), and asked this very question. According to the rep, the Espresso is in 15 locations at present (mostly bookstores, some libraries) and expects that to rise to more than 100 locations in the next couple of years.

Impressive for brand-new technology--but, at present and probably for the near future, hardly an alternative to bricks-and-mortar distribution.

- Victoria

Lainey Bancroft
06-28-2009, 04:50 AM
I saw a demonstration of the Espresso at BEA (tres cool--it's actually very compact, maybe 6' or 7' long by 3' wide by 5' high, and as easy to use as a copier), and asked this very question. According to the rep, the Espresso is in 15 locations at present (mostly bookstores, some libraries) and expects that to rise to more than 100 locations in the next couple of years.

Impressive for brand-new technology--but, at present and probably for the near future, hardly an alternative to bricks-and-mortar distribution.

- Victoria

How very cool that you saw a demonstration, Victoria! I haven't yet, aside from the online video, but there is a machine stationed at a university book store (Hamilton, McMaster) less than an hour from me and I can't wait to get there and check it out.

Canada actually houses four out of the fifteen machines, Two in Ontario, one in Alberta and another in Quebec--we're EXTREMELY environmental here--so I hope we keep acquiring machines. But as others have said, book sale-wise, I don't think this compares to having cover frontage on a mainstream retail shelf. For me, however, if I've laid the promo groundwork, it could sway a buyer hesitant to spend the exorbitant shipping cost from US to Canada and make them check out one of my books.

sumthinirote
07-07-2009, 01:38 AM
I'm glad people were able to answer the questions about the Espresso Book Machine because I didn't know the answers. I still see it as a positive development, but I realize there is more than one way to look at something, and I tend to be a 'glass is half-full' kind of person.

My concern is that I see a lot of negative talk about WRP, and I don't understand it. Everything I see coming out of there is positive, and my whole experience with them has been positive. My novel, Sleeping With Skeletons, was set to be released April 30, 2010, but my editor e-mailed me out of the blue this morning, and my release date has been moved up to October 2, 2009! That's good news for me, but I see good news there for all of their authors.

They just opened up their own print bookstore and will be making titles available to bookstores. It will be much easier for bookstores to order WRP books now, and they will get discounts when they order. There are still no refunds though. Anyway, I really have had a positive experience with them so far, and I'd recommend them to anyone. I'm invested in their success, but I know they're invested in mine too. I don't know how well other houses treat their authors, WRP is the first publisher I've worked with, but I don't see how any other house could treat a writer any better.

Doralynn
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html

bookgirl71
07-07-2009, 01:54 AM
I think that's wonderful about your book being released earlier! Congrats!
My full is still out with WRP and it's my first novel. Yes, I've contacted and queried EVERYONE. But my list is dwindling and if WRP makes an offer you can bet I'm going to take it.
My experience with one of their editors has been nothing but professional. All emails have been answered timely and I understand they are real sticklers when it comes to communication. I truly believe they are a small press to keep an eye on if they offered a contract I would be ecstatic to accept.

MickRooney
07-07-2009, 02:32 AM
How very cool that you saw a demonstration, Victoria! I haven't yet, aside from the online video, but there is a machine stationed at a university book store (Hamilton, McMaster) less than an hour from me and I can't wait to get there and check it out.

Canada actually houses four out of the fifteen machines, Two in Ontario, one in Alberta and another in Quebec--we're EXTREMELY environmental here--so I hope we keep acquiring machines. But as others have said, book sale-wise, I don't think this compares to having cover frontage on a mainstream retail shelf.

I think at the moment the EBM provides the necessary 'missing link' between ebook purchases and over the counter purchases. At the moment the buying public are still uncertain about the purchase of books in PDF to their PC or portable ebook reader. The EBM has the potential to bridge that gap temporarily. The vast majority of book buyers want something physical when they spend their cash, but if their selection is increased in the local bookstore to any book on the shelf or published and available via the EBM, then it's good for the bookseller as well as the customer. Time will tell in the roll out of the EBM. It still needs to become more than just a college or select store option.

sumthinirote
07-07-2009, 02:50 AM
I think that's wonderful about your book being released earlier! Congrats!
My full is still out with WRP and it's my first novel. Yes, I've contacted and queried EVERYONE. But my list is dwindling and if WRP makes an offer you can bet I'm going to take it.
My experience with one of their editors has been nothing but professional. All emails have been answered timely and I understand they are real sticklers when it comes to communication. I truly believe they are a small press to keep an eye on if they offered a contract I would be ecstatic to accept.
Good luck with WRP. They've been closed for the holiday, but they're back from vacations now, so I hope you'll be hearing positive news soon. Best wishes with that! I certainly have my fingers crossed for you. And, I agree. I think they're a small press to keep your eye on, too. Doralynn

bookgirl71
07-07-2009, 02:56 AM
I did notice on their calendar that they had an office shutdown until today, so I'm hoping I hear soon. There are a couple of people I'd like to hear back from this week if the universe agrees, TWRP is definitely included as is LandsAtlantic and Ghost Road Press.

A bigger house is always a writer's dream but when the list runs dry, smaller houses are a great way to get the foot in the door and I think alot of people lose sight of that, they always want bigger and better and if you don't have a NAME behind your book, you're nobody and I disagree.

sumthinirote
07-07-2009, 02:58 AM
I think at the moment the EBM provides the necessary 'missing link' between ebook purchases and over the counter purchases. At the moment the buying public are still uncertain about the purchase of books in PDF to their PC or portable ebook reader. The EBM has the potential to bridge that gap temporarily. The vast majority of book buyers want something physical when they spend their cash, but if their selection is increased in the local bookstore to any book on the shelf or published and available via the EBM, then it's good for the bookseller as well as the customer. Time will tell in the roll out of the EBM. It still needs to become more than just a college or select store option.
I agree. I rarely buy electronic books. I want a book in my hands, so that's one reason I'm excited about the EBM. The addition of a bookstore at WRP is another positive step from my viewpoint. At first I thought they were going to use the EBM to do that, but it looks like they're using a traditional printer. I need to go over the e-mails they sent out again, but unless I've misread something, they're placing books in limited quantities in small bookstores as well. If I understand that correctly, it seems like a path has now been opened for additional bookstores in the future. Doralynn

sumthinirote
07-07-2009, 03:01 AM
I did notice on their calendar that they had an office shutdown until today, so I'm hoping I hear soon. There are a couple of people I'd like to hear back from this week if the universe agrees, TWRP is definitely included as is LandsAtlantic and Ghost Road Press.

A bigger house is always a writer's dream but when the list runs dry, smaller houses are a great way to get the foot in the door and I think alot of people lose sight of that, they always want bigger and better and if you don't have a NAME behind your book, you're nobody and I disagree.
I hope you hear positive news from everyone at the same time, then you'll be in a sweet position. I'd love to have that kind of dilemma! Doralynn

bookgirl71
07-07-2009, 03:03 AM
Thanks! All fingers and toes and everything in between is crossed!! Keep us posted about your book!

veinglory
07-07-2009, 03:30 AM
What matters is not positive versus negative, but true versus false. If limited distibution and low sales (less than a hundred in the first year as of the last data I had) is fine with an author, then more power to them--but at least they should know.

bookgirl71
07-07-2009, 03:35 AM
Like I said, when the well runs dry from querying and a small press is your light at the end of the tunnel are you saying you wouldn't go for it? Even if it gave you the satisfaction of seeing your book in print no matter what shelf it was on? And it was a good foot in the door for future books?

veinglory
07-07-2009, 03:54 AM
I suspect there are larger small presses in this genre that you haven't tried yet (I am not sure exactly what your manuscript is).

And for my part, I am published exclusively by small presses--predominantly epublishers, I never even queried a large press. That had to do with what fitted my book and my goals. Nothing I have said should be taken as suggesting I am "Random House or Bust", quite the reverse.

If you want to start at the top end of small for sweet romance, did you try Samhain? (disclaminer: I am published with them but mention them as the best selling press for sweet romance for which I personally have sales data from multiple sources).

I am not down on small presses, but if you spend months or years wiritng a book--it is worth spending weeks or months finding the best press for your work. And that involves considering the positives and negatives of each press, large or small.

If I seem a TWRP naysayer it may be because they are the poorest selling publisher that I track and I now have several reports of writers breaking away from TWRP although I have yet to find out exactly why.

Robin Bayne
07-18-2009, 08:13 PM
Hey everyone who knows this pub--

I subbed a query on May 22, and on June 27 e-mailed a status request---just to make sure they received the query.

Still have not heard anything--but heard very quickly from their sister company, White Rose.

Should I try again from a different email account? Wait?

triceretops
07-18-2009, 10:07 PM
I'm kind of leaning toward wait. They did get back to me on two books in a reasonable amount of time, that being about 60 days or so.

Tri

Robin Bayne
07-18-2009, 11:03 PM
Thanks!

Fae Sutherland
07-19-2009, 01:46 AM
Hey everyone who knows this pub--

I subbed a query on May 22, and on June 27 e-mailed a status request---just to make sure they received the query.

Still have not heard anything--but heard very quickly from their sister company, White Rose.

Should I try again from a different email account? Wait?

Do you mean you haven't yet received confirmation that your initial submission/query was received? If you subbed on May 22nd and haven't yet gotten confirmation anyone has received it, I'd send a second poke, especially since your query on the query hasn't been responded to, either.

Just making sure I'm reading that correctly, that you subbed in May and haven't gotten a confirmation as of yet at all? Yeah, if it were me I'd poke again. Most epubs send out confirmation within a week or so of receiving a query/submission, so the author knows it got there and then the real wait can begin.

sumthinirote
07-19-2009, 02:23 AM
Hey everyone who knows this pub--

I subbed a query on May 22, and on June 27 e-mailed a status request---just to make sure they received the query.

Still have not heard anything--but heard very quickly from their sister company, White Rose.

Should I try again from a different email account? Wait?

Hi Inspiewriter, that's a long wait for WRP. Did you use the subject line that they request? If not, then it was deleted. If you did use the right subject line, then it may have been lost. They were closed for a couple of weeks for the Fourth of July Holiday. Anyway, they usually respond much faster than that, so I'd recommend checking again.

Good luck with your submission. I hope you get word soon.

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009

Robin Bayne
07-19-2009, 03:43 AM
Hi Inspiewriter, that's a long wait for WRP. Did you use the subject line that they request? If not, then it was deleted. If you did use the right subject line, then it may have been lost. They were closed for a couple of weeks for the Fourth of July Holiday. Anyway, they usually respond much faster than that, so I'd recommend checking again.

Good luck with your submission. I hope you get word soon.

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009

Yes, I believe I followed their instructions to the letter. My main email address is sometimes chucked into people's spam folders. I will try again with my yahoo account. Thanks!

Robin Bayne
07-19-2009, 03:44 AM
Do you mean you haven't yet received confirmation that your initial submission/query was received? If you subbed on May 22nd and haven't yet gotten confirmation anyone has received it, I'd send a second poke, especially since your query on the query hasn't been responded to, either.

Just making sure I'm reading that correctly, that you subbed in May and haven't gotten a confirmation as of yet at all? Yeah, if it were me I'd poke again. Most epubs send out confirmation within a week or so of receiving a query/submission, so the author knows it got there and then the real wait can begin.


Yes, that's correct. I just would like confirmation that they did get it.

Lainey Bancroft
07-19-2009, 03:53 AM
Wow, so many new comments in this thread! Great stuff.

I agree with MickRooney in that time will tell on the EBM, and that it could bridge the gap for book buyers who want a 'physical product' for $$$. But I do think it will take some time for these machines to 'storm the market' and be recognizable.

The Wild Rose Press' recent affiliation with a printer is awesome! We'll still be listed on Amazon, BUT if paperback buyers order direct through TWRP, Amazon will not take that large bite from the top. Wild Rose is doing everything they can to accommodate digital and paperback readers, and open new avenues for their authors.

As far as Veinglory's stats, to play devil's advocate, it is entirely possible she only heard from disgruntled Wild Rose authors. It is a FACT that mainstream/sweeter romance does not sell ANYWHERE near the numbers digitally as erotic romance, MM romance, BDSM, menage or group does. BUT, that doesn't mean sweeter romance doesn't sell.

Based on my experience, I'd have to say the story content/author exposure factors at least as greatly into sales as the publisher factors in. My latest contemporary romance with 'another publisher' who has 1k+ sales from their menage line, sort of bombed digitally but is selling in trade paperback.:Shrug:

Likewise with my TWRP contemp. The e-book sales were nothing to write home about--cliche anyone;) but the paperback still sells steadily a year after release.

The Wild Rose Press has a large 'garden' of authors now. As Tri said, they are selective and a request does not guarantee a contract. They ARE NOT a bottom-of-the-barrel-last-resort-for-homeless-mss!

Having said that, some lines are busier than others. White Rose only opened recently so they are 'actively acquiring.' If you tell me which line you queried, Inspiewriter, I may be able to offer insider info about wait times, etc. Feel free to PM me.

Robin Bayne
07-19-2009, 04:08 AM
Okay, thanks Lainey! On my White Rose query, I got a request for a full right away. It's the time travel query I sent to WRP that I am trying to check on. I have no problem waiting, just want to make sure they got it.

veinglory
07-19-2009, 05:45 AM
Even if the numbers are a bit off, as they are bound to be, TWRP's relative postioning to other presses probably is not unless those pleased with TWRP have been specifically asked not to report to me (In which case I would lack data from the 'gruntled' proportion of authors who followed the request). p.s. I only list erotic book stats, for any press.

Deb Kinnard
07-19-2009, 06:43 AM
Is "gruntled" a word? If not, it should be. I'd love to be totally gruntled!

Sakamonda
07-19-2009, 06:48 AM
As much as I respect what Emily Veinglory does, her stats can't be considered all that accurate, since she only has stats from those authors who choose to share their stats w/ her. And her minimum dataset per publisher is five books by at least three different authors. That's not exactly what I'd call a representative sample----from any publisher. I'm one of the top-selling authors for my epublisher, but there are still a couple other authors who still sell WAY more for that publisher than I do, and there are others who sell WAY less. If only the low-selling authors report, you get depressed stats, if only the top-selling authors report, you get inflated stats. Et cetera, et cetera.

It's far better to get your sales stats from industry publications like Publishers Weekly and Publishers Lunch (both of which are covering the ebook markets a lot more these days).

Robin Bayne
07-19-2009, 05:56 PM
Is "gruntled" a word? If not, it should be. I'd love to be totally gruntled!



I don't think that's allowed in the inspirational market.:D

Lainey Bancroft
07-19-2009, 07:43 PM
Hi, Robin/Inspiewriter,

WR was shut down for a week over the 4th and I know several of the editors are in DC, so they may be a bit slower than usual.

I'd advise you use the 'contact us' link on the Wild Rose Site (http://www.thewildrosepress.com/) (bottom right)
This message will go directly to the company owners. Let them know the date of your submission and to which line. They probably won't be able to give you a definite date you'll hear back, but they will at least be able to check and make sure your submission is logged into the system and set your mind at ease.

Good luck!

Robin Bayne
07-19-2009, 07:55 PM
Hi, Robin/Inspiewriter,

WR was shut down for a week over the 4th and I know several of the editors are in DC, so they may be a bit slower than usual.

I'd advise you use the 'contact us' link on the Wild Rose Site (http://www.thewildrosepress.com/) (bottom right)
This message will go directly to the company owners. Let them know the date of your submission and to which line. They probably won't be able to give you a definite date you'll hear back, but they will at least be able to check and make sure your submission is logged into the system and set your mind at ease.

Good luck!


Good idea, thanks!

Jennifer Robins
07-19-2009, 10:49 PM
I recieved word that my novel, An Author's Nightmare will be out Aug. 21st. My editor Sarah Hanson has been great. Doing the dance here.

www.jenniferrobins.com

Robin Bayne
07-20-2009, 12:55 AM
I recieved word that my novel, An Author's Nightmare will be out Aug. 21st. My editor Sarah Hanson has been great. Doing the dance here.

www.jenniferrobins.com (http://www.jenniferrobins.com)


Congrats!!;)

Jennifer Robins
07-20-2009, 01:51 AM
Thank you.

Robin Bayne
07-23-2009, 03:31 AM
Just a follow-up, TWRP editor had NOT received either of my queries. My lovely editor at the White Rose Press was able to contact her and confirm.

Thanks for all your input.

sumthinirote
07-24-2009, 08:51 AM
Hi Robin,

do they have it now? Sure glad you found out. Best wishes with that.

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009

sumthinirote
07-24-2009, 08:53 AM
Hi Jennifer,

congrats on your release date. That's not far off. I know you're excited. Best wishes with sales and reviews.

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009

Robin Bayne
07-24-2009, 11:36 PM
Hi Robin,

do they have it now? Sure glad you found out. Best wishes with that.

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009


Yes, they finally have it and requested the full today.:D

sumthinirote
07-26-2009, 01:57 AM
Yes, they finally have it and requested the full today.:D
That's great news! Quick too -- which is more like the WR. Hope you hear positive news soon.

By the way, if they offer you a contract, the artists are required to have book covers completed within 3 weeks. So you could soon be admiring your novel's cover!

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009

Robin Bayne
07-26-2009, 03:06 AM
That's great news! Quick too -- which is more like the WR. Hope you hear positive news soon.

By the way, if they offer you a contract, the artists are required to have book covers completed within 3 weeks. So you could soon be admiring your novel's cover!

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009




No kidding! It's so much fun to see a new cover. :)


(but they did say to allow 90 days to hear back)

sumthinirote
07-26-2009, 06:55 AM
No kidding! It's so much fun to see a new cover. :)


(but they did say to allow 90 days to hear back)

That's what they told me too, but I heard back in less than two weeks. I submitted to the Crimson Rose Line in April, and the novel is scheduled for release on October 2nd. That's fast. It had originally been scheduled for April 30, 2010, but the date was changed to this year. I couldn't be happier with WRP. Now that they have your submission, I hope your experience with them is as positive as mine has been.

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009

Robin Bayne
07-26-2009, 09:15 PM
That's what they told me too, but I heard back in less than two weeks. I submitted to the Crimson Rose Line in April, and the novel is scheduled for release on October 2nd. That's fast. It had originally been scheduled for April 30, 2010, but the date was changed to this year. I couldn't be happier with WRP. Now that they have your submission, I hope your experience with them is as positive as mine has been.

Doralynn

Sleeping With Skeletons
http://www.doralynn.net/skeletons.html
Coming October 2, 2009



Congrats and thanks!

Jennifer Robins
08-06-2009, 02:59 AM
Just got my author's copies of An Author's Nightmare and the book looks great.

I wondered if other authors have trouble reading their own books. Seems I do for what ever reason. Others that read it, say it's great but I look for anything I could have changed. Dumb, HUh?
It's due out on the 21st of this month but they have it for an early order on their website. www.thewildrosepress.com or you can find the link on my website at: www.jenniferrobins.com

Jersey Chick
08-06-2009, 03:02 AM
I can't read my own books. Just. Can't.

:D

Jennifer Robins
08-06-2009, 03:05 AM
Thanks, at least I know I'm not the only one.

Lainey Bancroft
08-06-2009, 03:26 AM
Yep. I'm with you and Jersey. Once the book is 'out there' I never reread it! NE-VAH.

Jennifer Robins
08-06-2009, 06:51 PM
It's so strange, you go through rounds of edits, read through the galley three times or more and then........you get the book and find five things you might change on the first page. Go figure.........

Robin Bayne
08-06-2009, 08:09 PM
I don't re-read mine either, and when I do skim one for a particular reason I wonder if I really wrote that.:D

Dee Carney
08-07-2009, 01:08 AM
I'm in the 'don't read it' club. Eek!

Jersey Chick
08-07-2009, 01:14 AM
Inspiewriter, I do the same thing. I'm currently working on the second novel of a family series, and I keep going back to the first one for small details, secondary characters, etc. And each time, I wince. And find things that I would like to rewrite...

Jennifer Robins
08-07-2009, 01:48 AM
I guess it's that way with most of us. I'm just glad I'm not alone.

Deb Kinnard
08-07-2009, 04:51 PM
I've had to, worse luck. I've re-sold two of them, and I'm either cringing or saying, "Hmm, not half bad!"

Probably without good reason in either event.

Robin Bayne
08-07-2009, 09:17 PM
I've had to, worse luck. I've re-sold two of them, and I'm either cringing or saying, "Hmm, not half bad!"

Probably without good reason in either event.


Exactly! I just re-submitted 2 previously published novellas. One was much better than I recall, and the other not so much.

sumthinirote
08-12-2009, 02:20 AM
Exactly! I just re-submitted 2 previously published novellas. One was much better than I recall, and the other not so much.
I'm curious how that works. When you resubmit something (I assume to the same publisher after the contract has expired) can you make changes?

Lainey Bancroft
08-12-2009, 03:11 AM
I'm curious how that works. When you resubmit something (I assume to the same publisher after the contract has expired) can you make changes?

Hey, sumthinirote, in my experience most contracts have an auto-renewal clause for a specified period of time, meaning if the author doesn't send notification to the publisher that they don't wish to renew, the book stays where it is and there is no need to 'resubmit' to remain on the publisher site.

If, however, you think your book would fare better with a different publisher and you want rights back, the contract ends at your notification and you are free to tweak/rewrite to your hearts content before you query another publisher (at which time, if 'new publisher' accepts you, you go through edits for their publishing house)

Mileage may vary and all that jazz. Like I said, that's been my experience.

Jersey Chick
08-12-2009, 03:27 AM
I've seen books on publisher sites (Like EC, for example) that state a book is a re-release and has undergone some changes.

sumthinirote
08-12-2009, 05:49 AM
Hey, sumthinirote, in my experience most contracts have an auto-renewal clause for a specified period of time, meaning if the author doesn't send notification to the publisher that they don't wish to renew, the book stays where it is and there is no need to 'resubmit' to remain on the publisher site.

If, however, you think your book would fare better with a different publisher and you want rights back, the contract ends at your notification and you are free to tweak/rewrite to your hearts content before you query another publisher (at which time, if 'new publisher' accepts you, you go through edits for their publishing house)

Mileage may vary and all that jazz. Like I said, that's been my experience.
Thanks Lainey. That's good to know. I need to check my contract because I don't remember if WRP has an auto-renewal clause or not. I had to make a lot of changes to Sleeping With Skeletons, (including some rearranging and a deleted chapter), and someday I'd like to get it published in its original genre. (It was originally a thriller with strong romantic elements.) But I made changes to it to get it published with WRP's Crimson Rose Line. Thanks for the information. Very good to know. Doralynn

sumthinirote
08-12-2009, 05:53 AM
I've seen books on publisher sites (Like EC, for example) that state a book is a re-release and has undergone some changes.
Thanks Jersey Chick. Now I have another question. What is EC? I should probably know that, but I'm really new to all of this. I'm racking my brain trying to figure it out, but it's been a long, hot day, and my brain refuses to cooperate at this point.

Jersey Chick
08-12-2009, 06:28 AM
Sorry 'bout that -

EC is Ellora's Cave - they're an e publisher of erotic romance. One of the biggies. :D

My bad - I talk in shorthand - so to speak...

sumthinirote
08-12-2009, 06:39 AM
Sorry 'bout that -

EC is Ellora's Cave - they're an e publisher of erotic romance. One of the biggies. :D

My bad - I talk in shorthand - so to speak...
I figured it was something I should know. Now, next time someone says "EC", I can act like I knew it all along. lol. I'll go google them and bring myself up to speed.

Robin Bayne
08-13-2009, 09:43 PM
I'm curious how that works. When you resubmit something (I assume to the same publisher after the contract has expired) can you make changes?



I was talking about sending them to a new publisher once the current pub closes up, or they release the rights. I have books in both categories, and yes, I've made changes before sending them to the next publisher.

sumthinirote
08-14-2009, 01:32 PM
I was talking about sending them to a new publisher once the current pub closes up, or they release the rights. I have books in both categories, and yes, I've made changes before sending them to the next publisher.
Thanks, I appreciate the follow up. Doralynn

Robin Bayne
08-17-2009, 05:55 PM
Thanks, I appreciate the follow up. Doralynn




My pleasure.:)


I have to also comment that WRP's editor was kind enough to notify me that she was going on vacation and would be out of touch. And I am not even under contract with them at this point. Very considerate.

sumthinirote
08-17-2009, 08:40 PM
My pleasure.:)


I have to also comment that WRP's editor was kind enough to notify me that she was going on vacation and would be out of touch. And I am not even under contract with them at this point. Very considerate.
Hi Robin, that's been my experience too.

sumthinirote
08-17-2009, 08:41 PM
Been doing a background check on this company, im planning to use them as i have a buddy of mine already under their contract.. appreciate all the info i got from this thread.. thanks a bunch..
The thread's been really helpful to me too. Best wishes with your submission. Doralynn

Chironicus
08-19-2009, 01:42 AM
I've been reading through this thread and I want to pose a question to the group. All feedback is welcome!

My query to TRWP at first went into a black hole it seemed, so I queried another pub that had been recommended to me. An e-pub that seemed like a great fit for my story. However, as soon as I did, an email came from TWRP saying my query had not been seen due to a glitch.

A few days later, I received a request from TWRP but for a partial, not a full. Mindful that both companies preferred no multiple submissions, I sent a note to the other pub, apologetically pulling my query, to which she responded so positively (she'd heard of my book, she said, from a mutual friend) that I really regretted the necessity of pulling it.

I sent off the partial and heard back from the senior editor saying it would be a 45-60 day turnaround which seemed excessive on a partial, considering the No Mult. Sub. policy. Her tone was distant as well, and considering she only asked for a partial, I'm wondering now if I made the right choice.

My questions:

Is 45-60 days on a partial for a company that specifies no mult. submissions excessive?

Is TWRP high enough on the list that waiting so long is worthwhile?

Honestly, if she'd asked for the full, I'd be more inclined, but the other company accepts a partial with the query and promised a TWO WEEK turnaround. Can you see my dilemma? Many of my friends are with TWRP and seem happy. I've spoken with two authors from the newer company who are thrilled.

Anyways, feedback would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

veinglory
08-19-2009, 01:46 AM
If TRWP is the right press for you, they are worth waiting for. Whether they are the right press for you depends on what your goals are. There is data out there showing the quality of their editing/art, distribution and sales volumes.

jennontheisland
08-19-2009, 01:51 AM
45 - 60 days seems long for an exclusive in my mind. Especially for a company like Wild Rose Press. Your friends may seem happy there, but have they given you any sales data?

Considering the multiple submission was a mix up and unintentional, I would have tried to explain the situation to the other publisher and done my best to avoid having to pull the query/partial from them.

But if WRP passes, you can always offer it to them again.

Chironicus
08-19-2009, 03:07 AM
Thanks to you both for your replies. Jenn, your approach would have been the best one! It does seem like two months to ask for an exclusive on a partial is a bit much. It's always hard to say whether a press is 'the' right one but my stories are romantic comedies without sex and I'm just not sure how well those sales stack up next to sensual or erotica.

Hmmm... I'll wait and process the feedback before taking any action.

Thanks again!!

Deb Kinnard
08-19-2009, 09:25 PM
You'll want to check this out with people who know more than I, but I'm told TWRP asks for partials on all submissions, due to the fact they want to look at the writing more than anything. Seems fair enough to me. But they do turn it around in that period, also per what I'm told.

HTH, but check my data. I haven't been in personal contact with TWRP but with one of their editors.

Robin Bayne
08-20-2009, 12:52 AM
You'll want to check this out with people who know more than I, but I'm told TWRP asks for partials on all submissions, due to the fact they want to look at the writing more than anything. Seems fair enough to me. But they do turn it around in that period, also per what I'm told.

HTH, but check my data. I haven't been in personal contact with TWRP but with one of their editors.



They asked me for a full, but it could be because it's a novella or because they lost my initial query for 2 months and were being extra nice. (or perhaps because it has been published before)

I know Treble Heart Books has a 90-exclusivity requirement, but I am not sure if that's on the query or after they request a full ms.

K. Taylor
08-20-2009, 01:18 AM
I had a glitch with TWRP where their request for a partial didn't get to me on the first try. Once we straightened things out, I sent it on May 19th. Heard from the editor I was assigned to on May 28th, then got her decision on June 4th. That was for Contemp. Romance. I know they have editors assigned to each genre/line.

Chironicus
08-20-2009, 09:24 PM
Thanks to everyone for the feedback! Now that I think about it, might have been a good idea to find out if the no MS policy was simply on the Full, rather than a query. Hmmm... Live and learn.

I decided after reading everyone's comments, that I might as well just let it go and get back to work on the revisions of my current book. The timing is what it is. From what I've heard TWRP is a wonderful company and I would be very fortunate to be picked up by them. So... I'll just do what every author should do. Write my next book!! *grin*

Again, thanks to everyone for the feedback.

jsouders
08-23-2009, 11:46 PM
I've been reading through this thread and I want to pose a question to the group. All feedback is welcome!

My query to TRWP at first went into a black hole it seemed, so I queried another pub that had been recommended to me. An e-pub that seemed like a great fit for my story. However, as soon as I did, an email came from TWRP saying my query had not been seen due to a glitch.

A few days later, I received a request from TWRP but for a partial, not a full. Mindful that both companies preferred no multiple submissions, I sent a note to the other pub, apologetically pulling my query, to which she responded so positively (she'd heard of my book, she said, from a mutual friend) that I really regretted the necessity of pulling it.



I sent off the partial and heard back from the senior editor saying it would be a 45-60 day turnaround which seemed excessive on a partial, considering the No Mult. Sub. policy. Her tone was distant as well, and considering she only asked for a partial, I'm wondering now if I made the right choice.

My questions:

Is 45-60 days on a partial for a company that specifies no mult. submissions excessive?

Is TWRP high enough on the list that waiting so long is worthwhile?

Honestly, if she'd asked for the full, I'd be more inclined, but the other company accepts a partial with the query and promised a TWO WEEK turnaround. Can you see my dilemma? Many of my friends are with TWRP and seem happy. I've spoken with two authors from the newer company who are thrilled.

Anyways, feedback would be most appreciated.

Thanks!


Okay, I fell into the same black hole, but I queried again at the ten day mark as it said on the website to do. That same day (within a few hours) i recieved a confirmation email stating the mixup and that she would forward my query to the senior editor. The next day the senior editor requested my partial. I sent it posthast and the next day after THAT the senior editor told me she'd sent it to a reviewing editor. Two days after that the reviewing editor emailed me and said she'd get back to me within two weeks.

I have to admit I'm pleasantly surprised at how friendly they are at this house. They've always kept me very informed. Almost at every step and I appreciate it.

I'm also surprised that they are making you wait that long for yours. I submitted mine to the Champagne line though. Which line was yours submitted to?

Chironicus
08-24-2009, 12:17 AM
Hi jsouders!

You know I searched the submission site but somehow missed the suggestion of resubmitting after ten days. Dang it.

I submitted to the Sweetheart line. When I sent off the partial with two attached RTF files, I received a reply the next day from the senior editor saying she had received only a single '.dat' file. Which baffled me. I apologized, explained that I double-checked the sent email (since I was concerned that she may think I simply didn't adhere to the specifications) and then resent as 97 Word files. She did receive both and then told me the reviewing evaluation period is 45-60 days, so I would hear back no later than October 18. No mention of sending it on to a reviewing editor. Nothing back since then either.

Maybe they are saturated with submissions in this line. It surprised me that two months would be standard on a partial, and then however long it would take on a full. I'm glad to hear you had a different reception. Although the senior editor initially seemed pleased with the synopsis and query, the follow-up email simply stated their protocol on timing and nothing else.

I have no idea if my partial was sent to a reviewing editor or if perhaps all submissions just get sent to the department slush pile. Not sure. Other than being told I would hear something within two months (and to contact them if I don't) there's been no other communication as of yet. It's only been a few days so it could be that they're swamped.

Time will tell. Hopefully, there will be a response within a few weeks letting me know that the partial is being reviewed. However, if it does take two months and you had a turnaround within a few days, that does suggest the Sweetheart line might be overbooked.

Thanks again for responding!

--Chiron

jsouders
08-25-2009, 10:42 AM
That's interesting. My friend sent something to the Climbing Rose line and hasn't heard back from them except to say they've received it. I don't know. Maybe no one is submitting to the champagne line and that's why things are moving faster for me. (shrug). I went to the FAQ section and that's where I found the info about the 10 day thing. Didn't mean to make it sound like i was being mean. I was just trying to type quickly. LOL. Anyway. Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

Chironicus
08-27-2009, 11:52 PM
Actually, you make a good point. It's not just possible but likely that certain lines have more openings than others.

Oh, and you didn't sound mean! My own chagrin over missing the info makes me blush. I swear I searched that site and even used Google to see if I could find the info! It's embarrassing that despite my efforts, the info was there all along. D'oh!

Again, thanks for the info and the well-wishes!

thethinker42
08-28-2009, 12:05 AM
I've dealt with one of the editors of the Scarlet Rose line, and she's been awesome. Even though she ultimately declined my book, she's been extremely responsive to e-mails, offered very thorough and detailed feedback, etc. I can't speak for any of the other editors, but this one in particular has been great. For both of my subs, I got a partial request a week after subbing, then she responded in 60 days (as she said she would).

So...my experience with TWRP has been very positive.

Lainey Bancroft
08-28-2009, 03:24 AM
Good luck to all waiting! Yes, it is true different lines at TWRP receive more subs by times than other lines so things can move quicker and/or slower, depending on the number of subs and the number of editors and the number of submissions.

I know Wild Rose is all for info sharing, so I'm sure they won't mind my sharing this message that came through the authors loop regarding the Climbing Rose line:

It is with a heavy heart that I let you know this morning that we have decided to close the Climbing Roses line here at TWRP.

I am trying to contact each author who has a contract with us, but if I have not reached you directly, please contact me at (email addy deleted) so we may discuss your options.

After over two years of very low sales and dwindling interest in this line, we made the decision to simply close the line. Our focus at TWRP is on adult romance and we found that a YA line simply wasn't in our best interest.

We will be closing to submissions this morning.

What will happen to current submissions:

If you have a book currently out we will continue to keep this book in inventory in all our distribution channels for 2 years from the day it released. If an author wants to remove her book, we will do that immediately with no cost involved.

If you have a book that is under review we will not be reviewing it further, it will be returned to you immediately.

If you have a book that has been contracted but NOT released - you have the option of not continuing with us and you can have the manuscript back. Authors will not be charged any fee for pulling their books. OR we will continue as planned and release your book on the date scheduled and it will remain in inventory for 2 years after that date.

I am here if you have questions, concerns, discussion.

There is a new company called Leap Books which is opening in late September. They have agreed to take on all our YA products if our authors wish to move there. If you'd like to do this, I would be happy to handle the transition. Their website is www.leapbks.com and both Susan Yates and Kat O'Shea will be working with this new company.

I know you are disappointed, but I hope you can understand this is a marketing and business decision. Thank you for understanding and once more, I'm here if you have questions.

Hope this helps anyone who is waiting (I'm sure you'll hear directly from WR soon) and also helps those who may have been contemplating where to send YA.

Cheers, L

K. Taylor
08-28-2009, 03:36 AM
Yeah, I've gotten quick responses from the Champagne Rose line editors. Don't know whether they're always on the ball or just have more time to devote, but they've been very workable so far.

Susan Gable
08-28-2009, 03:39 AM
I would totally NOT give an exclusive on a partial.

Probably not even on a full, either. Given turn around times, it's become ridiculous of ANY publisher to expect that they are getting an exclusive.

Be up front if they ask to read the piece and it's off somewhere else. And if you get an offer on it, contact the other house(s) and let them know, and give them the opportunity to read it.

You want to hold out for your upper crust, top tier publisher, yes. Which is why you should consider submitting in batches -- Top Tier, Second String, Fall Back, etc.

But I say JUST SAY NO to exclusives. Power to the people. <G>

Susan G.

JulieB
08-28-2009, 04:04 AM
Why not give a publisher or agent a couple of weeks, especially if it's one of your top choices?

jsouders
08-28-2009, 07:39 PM
Question about the whole exclusive thing. What exactly constitutes a simultaneous submission? If I query more than one publisher, is this a violation of that request? Or is it just at the partial level. I have no problem giving them an exclusive. I just don't want to sell myself short.