View Full Version : Math Lovers, Unite

Bartholomew

01-26-2008, 11:03 AM

Together, we shall turn back the tide of math haters, and force Microsoft to put a Cartesian plane module in the next version of Word! (Or Excel. I'm not picky.)

y=mx+b! ax2 + by2 = r2!

3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79

82148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128 48111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196 !!!!

(My lifetime goal is Pi to 1,000,000,000,000,001 places. Optimal pi is taken to 314 places.)

kristie911

01-26-2008, 03:17 PM

You can't make me like math. No one can.

Bartholomew

01-26-2008, 05:30 PM

You can't make me like math. No one can.

Heathen.

brokenfingers

01-26-2008, 05:36 PM

Shouldn't you be on a math board instead of a writing board?

Is it even legal for a math person to be registered here much less spout such heresy and try to negatively influence us? I'm calling my lawyers about this.

Bartholomew

01-26-2008, 05:47 PM

Shouldn't you be on a math board instead of a writing board?

Is it even legal for a math person to be registered here much less spout such heresy and try to negatively influence us? I'm calling my lawyers about this.

What if I write about math? Huh?

...

...

Oh snap, did I just make his head explode...?

dpaterso

01-26-2008, 05:53 PM

How strange, I remember someone whose username begins with "B" and ends in "artholomew" gettin' antsy over some numbers, not so long ago. Suddenly math is fun again!

I like prime numbers best. They make pi look silly and pointless. Just how perfect can a circle be anyway?

-Derek

Sophia

01-26-2008, 05:56 PM

I love

(x + y)(x + y) = x2 + 2xy + z2

because it is a handy way of squaring biggish numbers in my head. So if I wanted to know 83 x 83, I would do

(80 + 3)(80 + 3) = 6400 + (2 x 80 x 3) + 9

= 6400 + 480 + 9

= 6889

Maths is great.

Bartholomew

01-26-2008, 06:07 PM

How strange, I remember someone whose username begins with "B" and ends in "artholomew" gettin' antsy over some numbers, not so long ago. Suddenly math is fun again!

I like prime numbers best. They make pi look silly and pointless. Just how perfect can a circle be anyway?

-Derek

Circles are awesome perfect. Grrrrrr.

Hell is a place where Pi is 3, and where Prime Numbers are all even.

Also, this Burtlepartholomew person is no-doubt an ignoramus.

I love

(x + y)(x + y) = x2 + 2xy + z2

because it is a handy way of squaring biggish numbers in my head. So if I wanted to know 83 x 83, I would do

(80 + 3)(80 + 3) = 6400 + (2 x 80 x 3) + 9

= 6400 + 480 + 9

= 6889

That is absolutely awesome.

Can you modify it for something larger than a square? Say, 8310?

Hillary

01-26-2008, 07:13 PM

Can you modify it for something larger than a square? Say, 8310?

Sure. You can use the binomial theorem to expand to another power but it gets heinously complicated and it would take a billion years (roughly) to compute.

So, where 832 would be broken into (80+3)2 and eventually 6400 + (2 * 80 *3) + 9, with the formula behind that being z2 = (x + y)2 = (x + y)(x + y) = (x2 + 2xy + y2)

Then for something to, say, the fourth power, that equation turns into: z4 = (x4 + 4x3y + 6x2y2 + 4xy3 + y4)

And it only gets grosser from there. And, at that point, you've got a bunch of exponents in there that are high as it is, so if you wanted to avoid tricky exponents, you'd have to expand each term within the equation further.

Calculators are God.

truelyana

01-26-2008, 07:17 PM

rdtgrhyrty46476478546785

Perks

01-26-2008, 07:20 PM

I liked math just fine and I was an absolute genius at geometry, but then hit a wall. I failed trigonometry flat. It was like I was suddenly on another planet.

It was very sad.

I would like to take some math courses for refresher. Math was good for my brain and I loved writing proofs.

truelyana

01-26-2008, 07:22 PM

I enjoyed Maths too, I like the practicality of it. Although if it was put in front of me now, I couldn't quite work it out. I'll need some help first.

Hillary

01-26-2008, 07:28 PM

I ADORE math, in a really really really geeky way. I once spent a solid portion of time detailing for someone, mathematically, how THIS (http://digicc.com/fido/)7Up numbers game works. Just click the little dude in the corner and try to figure it out. It's fun!

NeuroFizz

01-26-2008, 07:54 PM

A fun number: 142857

142857 x 2 = 285714

142857 x 3 = 428571

142857 x 4 = 571428

142857 x 5 = 714285

142857 x 6 = 857142

If you start with the bolded 1s and wrap-around-read the numbers in sequence, they all come out as the original number order (142857).

Now, if you multiply by 7, it all breaks down, but you get all nines:

142857 x 7 = 999999

NeuroFizz

01-26-2008, 08:33 PM

Here's some physics fun (not directly mathematical):

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2001576#post2001576

I'm great with math. I absolutely hate math. You can't go beyond numbers like you can with words. You can smell the difference.

Maryn

01-27-2008, 10:12 PM

I don't think I knew you were a math guy, Bart. Our son is also a math guy, and he demanded I read what he called a "math novel." I was reluctant, especially when I saw the size, but I thought was great, too. (Although I would not have labeled it that. I'd have called it an adventure novel, or a war novel, or a computer novel, or a spy novel...)

I recommend you seek out Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, which does indeed have a lot of math in it but is an excellent novel nevertheless. Buy it in paperback, because you won't read it in the library's check-out time frame. It's massive. Enjoy!

Maryn, who'd like to read something short for a change but isn't

benbradley

01-27-2008, 11:00 PM

Together, we shall turn back the tide of math haters, and force Microsoft to put a Cartesian plane module in the next version of Word! (Or Excel. I'm not picky.)

Excel has done x-y plotting for well over a decade. It's simply an interpretation that the x axis is real numbers and the y axis is the product of real numbers and the square root of -1.

[quote=Bartholomew;2001155] y=mx+b! ax2 + by2 = r2!

So what's up with this b factorial and r{sup]2[/sup] factorial?

3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79

82148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128 48111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196 !!!!

(My lifetime goal is Pi to 1,000,000,000,000,001 places.

No doubt there's some computer program that calculates it to that many places, perhaps even within out lifetimes. I've seen one that calculates it to thousands of places on and old-fashioned 80386-powered PC.

When I was about 12 I memorized this much of the decimal expansion of pi:

3.14159 265 358 979 323

After the first five digits, I separated them into three's, and notice those last two sets were palindromes.

Optimal pi is taken to 314 places.)

And of course, as an engineer, I realize that pi to ten places is enough to define the circumference of the Earth to the accuracy of the size of one atom. But I agree math should never be limited to practical uses.

What if I write about math? Huh?

And you should write about physics, too. Math is often called "the language of science."

"Use the Product of Mass and Acceleration, Luke."

I love

(x + y)(x + y) = x2 + 2xy + z2

So, ahem, <speaking as as one of those shaming schoolteachers Roger Waters wrote about in "The Wall"> where did that z come from? Huh??? Did it come out of your nether regions?

Maths is great.

You're not from the USA, are you? Because physics is physics worldwide, but math (short for mathematics) is math in the USA, regardless of how many subfields of study it has.

Circles are awesome perfect. Grrrrrr.

Hell is a place where Pi is 3, and where Prime Numbers are all even.

Also, this Burtlepartholomew person is no-doubt an ignoramus.

Hell? There's a Bible verse describing a well or something two cubits across and six cubits around. As they say, "do the math."

I liked math just fine and I was an absolute genius at geometry, but then hit a wall. I failed trigonometry flat. It was like I was suddenly on another planet.

It was very sad.

I would like to take some math courses for refresher. Math was good for my brain and I loved writing proofs.

Proofs are actually from logic, and geometry is just the framework used to teach it.

I think trigonometry is easier once you see the sine and cosine functions as pistons in an engine with cranks for the pistons set 90 degrees apart (of course the sine isn't the exact function for crankrod-and-piston displacement, but it's the general idea we're after). Learn about an internal combustion engine and then go back to trig, it'll be easy. "The crankshaft is at sixty degrees. Where are the Sine and Cosine Pistons?"

I don't think I knew you were a math guy, Bart. Our son is also a math guy, and he demanded I read what he called a "math novel." I was reluctant, especially when I saw the size, but I thought was great, too. (Although I would not have labeled it that. I'd have called it an adventure novel, or a war novel, or a computer novel, or a spy novel...)

I recommend you seek out Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, which does indeed have a lot of math in it but is an excellent novel nevertheless. Buy it in paperback, because you won't read it in the library's check-out time frame. It's massive. Enjoy!

I haven't read that, but Rudy Rucker's books, both his SF novels and the non-fiction things (there's one about five math ideas, though I already knew them), have been interesting reading.

I'm reading Greg Bear's Eon, in which there is a device that "measures the local value of pi" to about 10 places. Overall it's good hard SF like I haven't read in a long time.

Maryn, who'd like to read something short for a change but isn't

Oh, an there's Larry Niven's short story "Convergent Series" from his book (a compilation of short stories) of the same title, a story that ingeniously combines math (the idea of a geometric series) and the supernatural. Highly recommended.

Maryn

01-28-2008, 12:42 AM

Thanks, Ben. Duly added to my Gift Ideas list for Kid Two, who's increasingly difficult to buy for.

Maryn, grateful

Akuma

01-28-2008, 12:44 AM

What's Math?

Can you eat it?

Man in Black

01-28-2008, 12:45 AM

What's Math?

Can you eat it?

I see a pi joke coming.

NeuroFizz

01-28-2008, 01:46 AM

No pi jokes. Just the old-timer:

What's the square root of 69?

Answer: 8 something.

benbradley

01-28-2008, 04:38 AM

Thanks, Ben. Duly added to my Gift Ideas list for Kid Two, who's increasingly difficult to buy for.

Maryn, grateful

Which author, and how old is kid 2? Over 12, I presume...

No pi jokes. Just the old-timer:

What's the square root of 69?

Answer: 8 something.

One of Rucker's novels is The Sex Sphere, and this novel (and the sphere) has sex as well as math. The thing wasn't quite a perfect sphere, but I'll spare you the details and let you read the book.

Then there's another of his novels with a chapter starting out with the MC and his wife and children in a hotel room in Rome, Italy. The parents <bla bla bla> while the children slept, and the MC noted that in Rome, 69 is LXIX.

Rudy Rucker is a brilliant writer as well as a mathematics/computer science professor, and he knows his Romin' numerals.

NeuroFizz

01-28-2008, 05:49 AM

Rudy Rucker is a brilliant writer as well as a mathematics/computer science professor, and he knows his Romin' numerals.

Roman hands and Russian fingers, y'all.

JoNightshade

01-28-2008, 06:26 AM

I don't think I knew you were a math guy, Bart. Our son is also a math guy, and he demanded I read what he called a "math novel." I was reluctant, especially when I saw the size, but I thought was great, too. (Although I would not have labeled it that. I'd have called it an adventure novel, or a war novel, or a computer novel, or a spy novel...)

I recommend you seek out Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, which does indeed have a lot of math in it but is an excellent novel nevertheless. Buy it in paperback, because you won't read it in the library's check-out time frame. It's massive. Enjoy!

I originally read the bolded part up there as "he demanded that I read him what..."

Then when I got to Cryptonomicon, I was like WTF? Maryn READ CRYPTONOMICON TO HER SON?!

I like that book, but it's a doorstopper. No wait, I like it BECAUSE it's a doorstopper. People see you reading that thing and think you're a genius.

I "appreciate" math but unfortunately do not have a mathematic mind. For me, math is like a foreign language. If I don't use it frequently, I lose it. At one point I was passing calculus with flying colors. Now? I'd have to review a textbook if I wanted to do trig. Ah well.

benbradley

01-28-2008, 07:47 AM

Freshly-written (smell the adverbs!) thread-related FF story here - forum password is: flashed

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90644

nevada

01-29-2008, 03:10 AM

If God wanted me to do math in my head, he wouldnt have invented the calculator. Just saying.

benbradley

01-29-2008, 06:27 AM

2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

This message brought to you by The Winston Smith Memorial Foundation.

jannawrites

01-29-2008, 07:34 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It's my worst nightmare, come to life in thread form!

Please... keep word problems... away...

Anastacia

01-29-2008, 07:45 AM

Runs from the thread in complete horror yelling lalala I can't hear you . . .

NeuroFizz

01-29-2008, 09:12 AM

If God wanted me to do math in my head, he wouldnt have invented the calculator. Just saying.

If God invented calculators, how come the first ones only had four functions (add, subtract, multiply, and divide) and were fixed at two decimal places? Uh, oh. Don't tell me...that nasty evolution thing, right?

Bartholomew

01-29-2008, 10:23 AM

I used to use my calculator for everything. Now I only use it to double check things. o_o

Bartholomew

04-08-2008, 11:44 AM

Except factorials, and anything that's absurdly huge. You know. o.o

By the way, my math page isn't allowed to go this low. Bump. We will talk about math. No one has say in the matter. Rawr!

Smiling Ted

04-08-2008, 03:08 PM

I recommend you seek out Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, which does indeed have a lot of math in it but is an excellent novel nevertheless. Buy it in paperback, because you won't read it in the library's check-out time frame. It's massive. Enjoy!

For everyone who's recommended the Cryptonomicon as a math novel, I'd recommend the original, the pioneer in whose wake Neal trudges dutifully....

Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pynchon.

Like The Cryptonomicon, a huge doorstop of a book about math, WWII, technology...but more inventive, more crazy, and, well, deeply, deeply raunchy and disturbing. Where Stephenson's mathematical obsession is codes, Pynchon's is ballistics. (The title refers to the parabolic trajectory of a V-2 rocket.)

Along the way you encounter rocket fetishists, coprophiliacs, slave laborers, banana commandoes, and displaced African tribesmen working as rocket techs.

It's fairly far out there.

I heart math.

It was the only subject in school I was good at.

Joycecwilliams

04-08-2008, 05:33 PM

Okay folks stop mixing letters and numbers. It's not normal.

Letters and numbers should be separate, like dogs and cats...

I HATE ALGEBRA... Letters are to convey emotions, events, and description. Not how to build an Atom Bomb..

:)

benbradley

04-08-2008, 08:31 PM

I'm just ashamed at the discrimination against some numbers here on AW. Pi Day was celebrated with its very own thread, but square-root-of-ten day, coming only a couple of days later, was totally ignored!

If you're dealing with numbers too big for your calculator, you might try ubasic. With it you can calculate, I forget, but the exact values of factorials of at least several hundred, anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBasic

http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/number.theory/ubasic/

I have a C program I wrote years ago that does like a million or five million factorial, and it only takes a few days to run on a 200Mhz Pentium. I used to have this up on a webpage years ago, but I can put it back up if anyone's interested...

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