Romancing Dilemma

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alainn_chaser

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So in my WIP: Street Blood there's a sort of love triangle between three of my MCs. One of the relationships is between the narrator and a tormented, abused (by vampires if that helps) and developmentally stunted boy. Basically it's out of desperation.

The second is between my narrator and a trivial pursuit obsessed vampire with a mild drug addiction. This is the healthy happy loving relationship.

The problem is that the healthy happy loving relationship (which I now love) is between two girls.

I was wondering how my perspective audience (YA urban fantasy) would react to this situation. Just looking for some feedback.

Cheers.

Also if anyone gives random flames about being gay... Well just watch it.
 

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So in my WIP: Street Blood there's a sort of love triangle between three of my MCs. One of the relationships is between the narrator and a tormented, abused (by vampires if that helps) and developmentally stunted boy. Basically it's out of desperation.

The second is between my narrator and a trivial pursuit obsessed vampire with a mild drug addiction. This is the healthy happy loving relationship.

The problem is that the healthy happy loving relationship (which I now love) is between two girls.

I was wondering how my perspective audience (YA urban fantasy) would react to this situation. Just looking for some feedback.

Cheers.

Also if anyone gives random flames about being gay... Well just watch it.
Well, I'd love it.

Lock thread ;)
 

alainn_chaser

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Awesome. Thanks guys. I had a feeling that no one would especially care but I was worried some people wouldn't like it the as much as a het couple.

Also: Corny and Luis are love. <3 :)
 

Aslera

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I think YAs are generally more open minded than people give them credit for. We're not stupid, and we're totally aware of relationships, relationships that fall outside of the "norm" we were taught when we were 8 or whenever, etc etc.

:) Have fun with it!
 

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Awesome. Thanks guys. I had a feeling that no one would especially care but I was worried some people wouldn't like it the as much as a het couple.

Also: Corny and Luis are love. <3 :)


There are some who won't, but you have to write what the story demands - to do less than that would be dishonest. And you can't please all the people all the time, anyway. Somebody's always going to be pissed off at something.

Be honest in your writing and do what the story needs to be done.
 

Legionsynch

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Perry Moore just came out with a book about a gay superhero last year that seemed to get a lot of attention. There's definitely room in the market for it, and I think a lot of YA readers nowadays are a lot more open minded than we (sometimes) give them credit for. :)
 

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If you're concerned about your characters being considered lesbian or homosexual, think about this?

Can't two girls love each other platonically? I think girls do this much better than we men do. It doesn't mean they're lesbians. It simply means they are best of friends.
 

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From my understanding, it's very acceptable these days to be "not quite straight", and it tends to be most permissable from that later teen/early adult stage. All the big stars seem to be doing it these days, I think Pink is the most recent I've heard about.

I think at this age, where so many questions arise about who you are and what you are, that venturing into not so accepted sexual avenues is quite acceptable among some teens. As your characters are far from the usual teens, I feel that this sort of love triangle would work exceptionally well! Good luck with it! :)
 

brittanimae

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You should probably hope that some big evangelicals vigorously object--then you'll get tons of free publicity and your book will sell like hot-cakes. :)
 

Zoombie

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I probably wouldn't have picked up the book till I read the bit about the lesbians.

But that's cause I was a normal, red blooded American child who knew that sex is the best thing ever. How could it not be with all the effort adults go to keeping it secret.

Then I found out what sex actually was, and it turned out...that I was right.

It IS the best thing ever!
 

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think this is an interesting idea. I believe that what is considered normal in YA book is that possibility of being les. I know of numerous teens that are straight, but some of the books they read are completly "against" (say what you will) their sexual orientation.
I think it's the whole "it's something new I haven't been exposed too" deal for most people. Not too many people's lives have been introduced so fully to the gay/bisexual way of life.
I would be interested in reading more on the subject of your book.
I hope I gave some insight to help you with everything,
Suprswimmer
 

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I say go for it. But don't be surprised if some parent in middle America screams for it to banned from her child's school library because it's dirty/bad/pornography/an abomination unto God. Of course, if that happens... it probably means you've done it right ;)
 

Hedgetrimmer

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Frankly, I don't think the issue of homosexuality should be your biggest concern. As we all know, homosexuality reaches back in history thousands of years. The Romans were notorious for sharing their bed with the same sex, family members, and even animals. They maintained a culture of barbarism that, by today's standards, would make even the raunchiest person grimace.

Although modern society does not condone homosexuality--there still being various degrees of stigma from one culture to the next--such a lifestyle has become increasingly accepted.

On the other hand, what you may want to reconsider writing about is a developmentally challenged (i.e., slightly retarded) boy being molested. Men sleeping with men is one thing; men sleeping with boys is obviously something quite different; and men sleeping with boys who do not possess the mental capacity to even grasp what is going on opens a whole other envelope of ethical and moral questions that, personally, I wouldn't want to be forced to address. And, believe me, you will have to address it, were the book ever to see the light of publication.

No one can tell you what you should or should not write, and I certainly wouldn't attempt to do so, but if this is a necessary part of your story that you cannot omit, my suggestion is that you start now, right this very minute, donning your armor and gathering your ammunition for defense. Trust me; you will be attacked.
 

timewaster

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So in my WIP: Street Blood there's a sort of love triangle between three of my MCs. One of the relationships is between the narrator and a tormented, abused (by vampires if that helps) and developmentally stunted boy. Basically it's out of desperation.

The second is between my narrator and a trivial pursuit obsessed vampire with a mild drug addiction. This is the healthy happy loving relationship.

The problem is that the healthy happy loving relationship (which I now love) is between two girls.

I was wondering how my perspective audience (YA urban fantasy) would react to this situation. Just looking for some feedback.

Two things; If you want to write this particular story - go for it!
if you want to sell this story - think about it.

Anything that you do that is controversial reduces your likely prospective market and your chance of publication. Publishing is a business and if a publisher knows that your book will not be bought by a large proportion of the book buying public that reduces your book's commercial potential.

If your book is brilliant then if may be Ok - brilliant writing tops everything and may turn controversy into a plus point. Brilliant writing is rare.
If your book is so-so or merely good then it probably isn't OK and the subject matter may reduce your chances of publication.

Don't be confused as to your audience. If you are interested in anything besides self publishing then your primary audience is not teenagers it is agents, aquiring editors, marketing and sales departments. Their wages depend upon their producing books which sell well. This isn't censorship so much as a business calculation.

If you're just starting out and writing for pleasure and to learn then I think you should write whatever you want to and have fun. You only need to worry about the other stuff if you have a burning ambition to be published and even then I would still advise that you write what you love - just be sure to be brilliant!
 

TrishD

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Frankly, I don't think the issue of homosexuality should be your biggest concern. As we all know, homosexuality reaches back in history thousands of years. The Romans were notorious for sharing their bed with the same sex, family members, and even animals. They maintained a culture of barbarism that, by today's standards, would make even the raunchiest person grimace.

Although modern society does not condone homosexuality--there still being various degrees of stigma from one culture to the next--such a lifestyle has become increasingly accepted.

On the other hand, what you may want to reconsider writing about is a developmentally challenged (i.e., slightly retarded) boy being molested. Men sleeping with men is one thing; men sleeping with boys is obviously something quite different; and men sleeping with boys who do not possess the mental capacity to even grasp what is going on opens a whole other envelope of ethical and moral questions that, personally, I wouldn't want to be forced to address. And, believe me, you will have to address it, were the book ever to see the light of publication.

No one can tell you what you should or should not write, and I certainly wouldn't attempt to do so, but if this is a necessary part of your story that you cannot omit, my suggestion is that you start now, right this very minute, donning your armor and gathering your ammunition for defense. Trust me; you will be attacked.


I can see people being more sympathetic to the abusive relationship. It might be disturbing, but there is a clear victim. In a consensual, healthy homosexual relationship, both partners will be seen as __________ (fill in your favorite angry homophobic rant here).

But I do have to agree with hedgetrimmer that you'll take heat for whatever you write. So buy a flame-proof suit and be prepared. ;)
 

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Y'know, I take issue with the whole "be careful who you show it to" part of this thread. I'm not saying that it won't be a difficult sell, and you'll have to handle both the homosexual and the abusive relationships very carefully - but you'll have to do that anyway, whether you're aiming for publication or not.

But if you choose your publisher carefully, there's no reason you can't sell the book with both those plot lines in it - there are lots of homosexually oriented publishers out there, and even in the mainstream, there are editors noted for wanting material that pushes the envelope. And honestly - the entire homosexual thing is so fragmented that I can point to different people and have one say "gays are still being persecuted" and another and have them say "it's practically mainstream now." The irony is, both are correct. The entire gay/lesbian thing is now on the verge of becoming mainstream, and the barriers are falling. There have been fewer and fewer reactions against it in the mainstream culture, and I know of at least one author who's already got a book out there about a young woman's self-discovery of her same sex attraction - Hello Groin by Beth Goobie, published by Orca Books. I haven't heard a word of controversy about it.

So write the book the way it demands to be written, and first, don't worry about publication yet. When you're past the revisions and are thinking in terms of editors and agents, look for ones in the mainstream that like that on edge stuff, and choose them. Likewise, look for presses that are open to gay/lesbian work.

One of the advantages of writing YA is that we're not restricted to just the fantasty publishers - most YA publishers have a variety of genres under the YA banner - SF, mystery, thriller, romance, literary and fantasy. It's just a matter of doing your homework and finding them.

One last nag. Be very wary when you think or hear someone make a broad generalization, like "nobody like . . . x" I had a writer ask me the other day how come she hears agents and editors hate animal protagonists, but there are so many animal protags out there. It's easy - some editors and agents hate 'em and won't deal with 'em, others will - and the biggest reason for not wanting them is because so many of them are so badly written. But I can promise that if you make or hear a broad generalization like that, it's wrong. It may take some spadework, but I'll bet you can find someone who will be interested in your book, if (and I say this simply because I haven't read anything you've written) it's publishable and a riveting story.
 

TrishD

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Y'know, I take issue with the whole "be careful who you show it to" part of this thread. I'm not saying that it won't be a difficult sell, and you'll have to handle both the homosexual and the abusive relationships very carefully - but you'll have to do that anyway, whether you're aiming for publication or not.

But if you choose your publisher carefully, there's no reason you can't sell the book with both those plot lines in it - there are lots of homosexually oriented publishers out there, and even in the mainstream, there are editors noted for wanting material that pushes the envelope. And honestly - the entire homosexual thing is so fragmented that I can point to different people and have one say "gays are still being persecuted" and another and have them say "it's practically mainstream now." The irony is, both are correct. The entire gay/lesbian thing is now on the verge of becoming mainstream, and the barriers are falling. There have been fewer and fewer reactions against it in the mainstream culture, and I know of at least one author who's already got a book out there about a young woman's self-discovery of her same sex attraction - Hello Groin by Beth Goobie, published by Orca Books. I haven't heard a word of controversy about it.

So write the book the way it demands to be written, and first, don't worry about publication yet. When you're past the revisions and are thinking in terms of editors and agents, look for ones in the mainstream that like that on edge stuff, and choose them. Likewise, look for presses that are open to gay/lesbian work.

One of the advantages of writing YA is that we're not restricted to just the fantasty publishers - most YA publishers have a variety of genres under the YA banner - SF, mystery, thriller, romance, literary and fantasy. It's just a matter of doing your homework and finding them.

One last nag. Be very wary when you think or hear someone make a broad generalization, like "nobody like . . . x" I had a writer ask me the other day how come she hears agents and editors hate animal protagonists, but there are so many animal protags out there. It's easy - some editors and agents hate 'em and won't deal with 'em, others will - and the biggest reason for not wanting them is because so many of them are so badly written. But I can promise that if you make or hear a broad generalization like that, it's wrong. It may take some spadework, but I'll bet you can find someone who will be interested in your book, if (and I say this simply because I haven't read anything you've written) it's publishable and a riveting story.

I had Maureen Johnson in mind when I said suggested there might be a reaction. She had a parent challenge one of her books because it has a single kiss between two girls. John Green is taking heat from a group of school district parents because one of his books contains a (badly executed) bj. And Sarah Dessen got backlash for a scene in which a girl is date raped. So I don't think the "be careful who you show it to" portion of this thread is misplaced. I agree there is lots of room for gay and lesbian literature--even in YA. But where there are teens, there are also parents.
 

alainn_chaser

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On the other hand, what you may want to reconsider writing about is a developmentally challenged (i.e., slightly retarded) boy being molested. Men sleeping with men is one thing; men sleeping with boys is obviously something quite different; and men sleeping with boys who do not possess the mental capacity to even grasp what is going on opens a whole other envelope of ethical and moral questions that, personally, I wouldn't want to be forced to address. And, believe me, you will have to address it, were the book ever to see the light of publication.

No one can tell you what you should or should not write, and I certainly wouldn't attempt to do so, but if this is a necessary part of your story that you cannot omit, my suggestion is that you start now, right this very minute, donning your armor and gathering your ammunition for defense. Trust me; you will be attacked.

Okay I think I should clear a few things up. My male MC (we shall call him Matt until I finish my first draft and am sure I love his real name) is not *cough, cough* retarded. (I appreciate the use of the words developmentally challenged though. Very politically correct of you.) Matt's sixteen. I'm sure you know that at sixteen you start to think more mature. This usually starts early at ten or twelve. Matt is emotionally immature. He didn't get to grow up normally and because of that his physcological development is stunted. Not that I think writing mentally challenged characters is bad and not very interesting for the writer and an excercise of your skills ('A Corner of the Universe' anyone?). I might try it later but not now. Clear? Alright moving on.

Secondly I've never said Matt was being abused sexually. (although the fact that everyone has assumed shows that it works well as a metaphor :)) Matt is abused by vampires. What do vampires do?

There we go. Everyone still with me?

The original idea for his third of the story came from a book about sexually abused males. It was a textbook my sister-in-law had from university and I thought one of the stories was very heart breaking and a real struggle. Matt is effected much like a sexually abused boy would be but he is not being sexually abused.

Finally (as this is my main button pusher) how many books have sexually abused boys? None that I can think of. How many boys are abused? One in five.

Scary, no? So while everyone is writing about the real troubles of life (prom, pregnancy, drugs, abusive parents/boyfriends) no one writes about this for boys or girls. That scares me.
 

alainn_chaser

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Also I would be proud to have a banned book. I would throw a party and than give long rants about ignorant people to interviewers.

Heck, having a banned book can make you down right famous. :D
 

alainn_chaser

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If you're just starting out and writing for pleasure and to learn then I think you should write whatever you want to and have fun. You only need to worry about the other stuff if you have a burning ambition to be published and even then I would still advise that you write what you love - just be sure to be brilliant!

Okay there are too many of you people... *pants in exhaustion* But yes being brilliant is a good goal. ;) And you are right about the business aspect. Lucky for me teens, at least, love controversy.
 
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