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Shadow_Ferret
01-14-2008, 04:59 PM
Anyone catch the first half last night?

Any opinions?

I hate starting something with a dream sequence.

I knew Laz-e-boys are built tough, but to stand up to machine gun fire? Wow.

Calla Lily
01-14-2008, 05:28 PM
I chickened out. The potential suckiness factor was too much for me, even tho I like the FX of the glowing blue eyes.

So, did it suck rocks? How many lines did they lift from the movies? (Like "Come with me if you want to live.") Were you actually nostalgic for Linda Hamilton, even in her annoying, hard-a$$, pseudo-military persona from T2? (I hated T2, can you tell? Liked T3.)

rkbentley
01-14-2008, 05:33 PM
Calla, if you hated T2 and liked T3 then I think you won't like the TV Show since T3 is thankfully ignored.

After seeing it last August via the torrents and now in HD, I thought the show pulled it off. Gunplay was there, Lena pulled off a good Sarah Conner and Summer was her usual butt kicking self.

Hopefully it'll last.

Shadow_Ferret
01-14-2008, 06:19 PM
So, did it suck rocks? How many lines did they lift from the movies? (Like "Come with me if you want to live.") Were you actually nostalgic for Linda Hamilton, even in her annoying, hard-a$$, pseudo-military persona from T2? (I hated T2, can you tell? Liked T3.)I don't think it sucked. I wasn't too keen on a dark-haired Sarah Conner. Me I loved a buff Linda Hamilton.

I'll give it a few viewings just to see where they go with it.

Maybe its just me, but the whole concept of people in hiding and on the run... hasn't that been done to death?

maestrowork
01-14-2008, 07:02 PM
I was about to start this thread but fell asleep... LOL.

I liked it. I don't think it sucked (not like Bionic Woman... eeek). But it could have been better. The beginning kind of threw me -- I didn't get my bearing of what happened and when it was supposed to be... I knew it was between the second and third movie, but still... I had no idea who the boyfriend was, etc. (I thought he was Michael Baen's character in the first movie -- he looked like him, and Lena looks young in this). And opening with a dream just made me laugh (I knew immediately it was a dream).

Still, I think it was decent, and the ending was fun -- I really loved the concept and I think it has potential. I'll keep watching.

nevada
01-14-2008, 07:49 PM
I thought it sucked. lol I managed 36 minutes of it. The dream start made me scream (metaphorically) in anger and disgust. And the barca lounger stopping bullets was ridiculous. All the time I kept thinking if these robots are supposed to be running the show in the future how come they can't kill one little kid, because Sarah Connor didn't seem so tough to me. Also how come they were safe for two years and now all of a sudden all these terminators are popping up out of the woodwork?

To me, it was everything a semi-bad book was. Start with an action sequence, make it a dream, then have characters standing around talking so you don't have to do a proper flashback, then throw in some more action, just so people don't get bored.

I changed the channel and watched Masterpiece Theatre instead. Jane Austen's Persuasion. Not as good as the Ciaran Hinds movie but still very good.

Shadow_Ferret
01-14-2008, 07:54 PM
Also how come they were safe for two years and now all of a sudden all these terminators are popping up out of the woodwork?

I thought they explained that, maybe not to your satisfaction. ;) She had killed the scientist who created Skynet (according to the FBI) and they thought everything was ok, and it was, but then someone else picked up where the scientist left off and that's why the terminators came back because Skynet was activated.

maestrowork
01-14-2008, 09:21 PM
What nevada means, though, is that if the Terminators traveled through time, why wait 2 years? Why not just go back to 1997 and kill them while they're off guard (thinking they've done it)? I know two years have passed (for Sarah Connor) for Skynet to start again, but to the Terminators, it's irrelevant.

My-Immortal
01-14-2008, 09:32 PM
I missed it. I kinda wanted to see it, but I was writing and totally lost track of time...

If those machines/terminators had any sense, they'd give up on trying to get the adult SC or JC and go back further - try to get SC as a child or maybe just kill SC's mother....or better yet, trace her family back to say the Civil War era - have them go after great-great grandpa Conners. Muskets vs machines....terminators chasing after horse-drawn carriages... Maybe have one arive in the middle of some railroad track and have a steam engine hit it....

No?

:)

Take care all -

Shadow_Ferret
01-14-2008, 09:36 PM
What nevada means, though, is that if the Terminators traveled through time, why wait 2 years? Why not just go back to 1997 and kill them while they're off guard (thinking they've done it)? I know two years have passed (for Sarah Connor) for Skynet to start again, but to the Terminators, it's irrelevant.
No, I understood what he meant and I answered as to how the story explained it.

I never said I thought the writers had a clue as to what they were really writing. Which scares me about how the series is going to go if they don't have a good handle on the whole time travel thing now in the beginning.


If those machines/terminators had any sense, they'd give up on trying to get the adult SC or JC and go back further - try to get SC as a child or maybe just kill SC's mother....or better yet, trace her family back to say the Civil War era - have them go after great-great grandpa Conners. Muskets vs machines....terminators chasing after horse-drawn carriages... Maybe have one arive in the middle of some railroad track and have a steam engine hit it....
-
The thing is, if they wipe out too many people inthe past, what if one of Conner's relatives CREATED a certain part essential to the creation of computers? Then the machines never would have existed in the first place.

Gah, sometimes time stories become way too quagmirey.

Stormhawk
01-15-2008, 12:18 AM
The thing about the chair stopping the bullets was explained - when the cops/FBI were there, it had kevlar sewn into it. Fairly reasonable, I think - especially when coming from Sarah's paranoid mindset.

I liked it, and really liked how they ignored T3 (aka, the abomination of the series).

Plus, Summer Glau *squee*.

Shadow_Ferret
01-15-2008, 12:23 AM
The thing about the chair stopping the bullets was explained - when the cops/FBI were there, it had kevlar sewn into it. Fairly reasonable, I think - especially when coming from Sarah's paranoid mindset.
Oh, I remember them mentioning kevlar but I missed what it was in relationship to.

MidnightMuse
01-15-2008, 12:28 AM
... Then the machines never would have existed in the first place...

The key to why I'll never watch this or any other Hollowood version of time travel. If they traveled back in time and were SUCCESSFUL, they'd have eleminated the reason to ever have traveled back in time in the first place.

Gah.

This whole misunderstanding of the working function of time travel theory makes me see purple.

Shadow_Ferret
01-15-2008, 12:31 AM
The key to why I'll never watch this or any other Hollowood version of time travel. If they traveled back in time and were SUCCESSFUL, they'd have eleminated the reason to ever have traveled back in time in the first place.

And?

You're much smarter than I, that's why you write sci-fi and I stick with fantasy, but if they eliminate the son (or her originally), then he can't lead the resistance and they win, right? He won't be in the future to lead the resistence and then they won't need to send anyone back in time to kill him and he'll live and he'll lead the resistence and then they'll have to send someone back to kill him..... gah! It hurts!

MidnightMuse
01-15-2008, 12:34 AM
If they send someone back to kill him, to prevent him from leading the resistance, then he never lives and there's no resistance, hence no threat or need to send someone back to kill him to prevent him from leading a resistance that now never takes place.

It's a logic-loop.

Or lack of logic loop. Unless parallel worlds are invovled, in that case they can go back and BE succesful, but only the new world they're in will benefit, not the one that sent them.

Shadow_Ferret
01-15-2008, 12:37 AM
Or an illogic loop.

Which is why the focus on Sarah Conner destroying Skynet seems so illogical. If she's successful then there are no robots and no one came back in time to kill them, but robots did come back in time to kill them so her attempts to stop Skynet must have failed.

maestrowork
01-15-2008, 03:40 AM
I missed it. I kinda wanted to see it, but I was writing and totally lost track of time...

If those machines/terminators had any sense, they'd give up on trying to get the adult SC or JC and go back further - try to get SC as a child or maybe just kill SC's mother....or better yet, trace her family back to say the Civil War era - have them go after great-great grandpa Conners. Muskets vs machines....terminators chasing after horse-drawn carriages... Maybe have one arive in the middle of some railroad track and have a steam engine hit it....

No?

:)

Take care all -


Exactly. Especially since the ending of the first episode told us that a Terminator had gone back to 1963... I mean, oh, man, wouldn't the bad Terminators do the same, go back to 1963, kill Sarah Connor as a child, and be done with the whole thing? That just kind of forces me to throw my logic away if I want enjoy this series...

Time traveling stories are so silly.

maestrowork
01-15-2008, 03:41 AM
And?

You're much smarter than I, that's why you write sci-fi and I stick with fantasy, but if they eliminate the son (or her originally), then he can't lead the resistance and they win, right? He won't be in the future to lead the resistence and then they won't need to send anyone back in time to kill him and he'll live and he'll lead the resistence and then they'll have to send someone back to kill him..... gah! It hurts!

That's what we call a Paradox... no?

maestrowork
01-15-2008, 03:44 AM
Or an illogic loop.

Which is why the focus on Sarah Conner destroying Skynet seems so illogical. If she's successful then there are no robots and no one came back in time to kill them, but robots did come back in time to kill them so her attempts to stop Skynet must have failed.

I think we can just chalk it up as alternate universe theory... remember how they explained it in Back To the Future? The future (A) goes back to the past, changes something, and alters the universe to go down future (B)... In future (B) no one would have gone back to the past... but it's a split.

So in this case, it's the same thing. If Sarah Connor succeeds in changing the future (no more robots, no more resistance, etc.) she would have created an alternate future... but what the "original" future did (sending back Terminators) would still have happened in her past...

I hate time traveling...

:)

nevada
01-15-2008, 05:24 AM
Ahem, I'm a she. Thanks. :D

And I didn't stick around long enough for the kevlar in the Barca Lounger. Obviously, that's the first thing i'd do, sew kevlar into all my furniture. That's so much more practical than actually wearing body armour.

Shadow_Ferret
01-15-2008, 05:57 AM
I think we can just chalk it up as alternate universe theory... remember how they explained it in Back To the Future? The future (A) goes back to the past, changes something, and alters the universe to go down future (B)... In future (B) no one would have gone back to the past... but it's a split.

So in this case, it's the same thing. If Sarah Connor succeeds in changing the future (no more robots, no more resistance, etc.) she would have created an alternate future... but what the "original" future did (sending back Terminators) would still have happened in her past...

I hate time traveling...

:)Is that like time is a stream analogy? Where if you stand at a point in the stream and throw in a rock it creates a ripple that travels downstream. Now you can throw another rock in where you stand (present) but that ripple won't effect the previous ripple as it's already in the future.

In other words, I guess, Time is always changing and moving downstream and what you do to effect the present can't possibly effect the Future present because it will always be moving downstream ahead of your change.

I need aspirin now.

ZannaPerry
01-15-2008, 06:53 AM
Here we are again about the whole travel questions! I had a hard time keeping up my end of the debate on IMDb.com once upon a time ago. I know the timeline but I won't think about it because it will just confuse me!

I am soooo glad someone decided to post a topic about this series. For being a fan of all three movies (I actually liked T3! Some of it anyway. Hated the idea of Kate Brewster, though...and that actress.)

I taped it last night because I wasn't going to be home in time to watch it from the start. I am taping the second half right now because again, I didn't get home in time. I liked the idea a long time ago that they wanted to do a tv series for this amazing story. I actually would've liked to have seen more of the story in mini segments because I just think there is so much more to tell. I read the book series when it came out, and the final book. Which, I would love for them to continue off from that version.

The only thing I didn't like were the characters they had to recast. I know some of them were hard to cast like Miles' wife and Miles himself. Couldn't they have used old footage from the previous films? One of the producers who has been involved in all THREE Terminators is actually producing the series as well. Couldn't he have had permission to use archive footage, or something? That would have made the show more realistic. In my opinion.

John was a good cast, as well as Sarah Connor. I think Lena is going to do a great job with the character. And I'm glad she's more "human" in the series than she was in T2, and not DEAD like she was in T3. Not sure if I like the concept of a teenage Terminator, but we can't win everything, right?

Overall, the show looks very promising and loaded with action. I really hope this show carries on to seasons beyond seasons beyond seasons. It's getting really good publicity, and I hope for the best for all the actors involved.

Sure, it's no James Cameron T1/T2, but......we gotta give it a shot!

plaidearthworm
01-15-2008, 07:56 AM
But if they succeeded in going back in time and killing the dude, wouldn't that open up a much larger hole....in Fox's tv schedule? ;)

maestrowork
01-15-2008, 04:06 PM
After the second episode I'm still not decided yet. John Connor's character pissed me off -yeah, yeah, he was only a teenager but please, after going through what he did in the last few years, I'd think he would have been smarter and more mature already. I was more mature than he when I was 14! And we're supposed to believe he would be the future resistance leader?

Shadow_Ferret
01-15-2008, 05:09 PM
I know what you mean about being undecided, sometimes the show is pretty fun, but then they go and throw things out there like, she's dead, died of cancer in 2005. Wait. How is that possible if she jumped forward in time to 2007? She simply would have stopped existing for 8 years, right? Why would there be an alternate Sarah Conner to get cancer?

As far as John. I was very immature at 14. So I'm willing to let him want to be a teen after all the hiding and such. That can be like such a drag man, ya know?

Still not sure I'm accepting this actress as Sarah Conner though.

My-Immortal
01-15-2008, 07:32 PM
Exactly. Especially since the ending of the first episode told us that a Terminator had gone back to 1963... I mean, oh, man, wouldn't the bad Terminators do the same, go back to 1963, kill Sarah Connor as a child, and be done with the whole thing? That just kind of forces me to throw my logic away if I want enjoy this series...

Time traveling stories are so silly.

I didn't know any of this - I've missed both episodes now. I'll probably now wait for it to come out on DVD or watch it in reruns <sigh>. So...a good terminator went back to 1963 to watch over Sarah?

Bmwhtly
01-15-2008, 07:48 PM
Summer Glau playing a Terminator?

Oooh, I hope it comes over here :)

ZannaPerry
01-15-2008, 09:34 PM
I know what you mean about being undecided, sometimes the show is pretty fun, but then they go and throw things out there like, she's dead, died of cancer in 2005. Wait. How is that possible if she jumped forward in time to 2007? She simply would have stopped existing for 8 years, right? Why would there be an alternate Sarah Conner to get cancer?

She's probably just making sure she will be okay and cancer-free so she can help her son, and take care of him and teach him. She hasn't had much time, you gotta remember that, since this series is leading right off the second film. She had been in a mental hospital for three years, never got to see her son, and wasn't John suppose to be 10 in T2? Sarah didn't want to drown him with all the future information and training him yet if he was still pretty young to understand. AND THEN, she was shoved in the mental hospital, never had the chance to see him, and then basically after the events of T2, they had to stay on the move from the police. So, they never quite got settle down and talk all this through. And as you can see, Sarah Connor isn't exactly the friendly woman we knew in T1.

And to add, I don't think the man who was meant to be her finance was Kyle Reese. Just a man Sarah tried to be with, and John liked.

ChunkyC
01-16-2008, 12:17 AM
My wife and I started watching it last night and changed the channel after about ten minutes. I was hoping for much, much more. Oh well, back to watching Dance War. ;)

Shadow_Ferret
01-16-2008, 12:24 AM
It's television, chunky! I'm always looking for "almost half-way decent."

And Dance War ain't it. :rolleyes:

nevada
01-16-2008, 03:57 AM
I still don't get why the terminators insist on coming on with guns blazing. THere are so much easier, less obvious ways to kill someone. He's standing in line somehwere, just sneak up behind him, stick a knife in his ribs. Break into his house in the middle of the night and smother him with a pillow. They can't tell someone is a terminator until it pulls out a gun. WHich it always does. And it's aim is always bad, despite all the occular enhancements. I just don't buy it. I was willing to go along with the movies, the first two. But over and over and over these robots prove themselves stupid and incapable. How exactly did they take over the world in the first place?

Shadow_Ferret
01-16-2008, 04:01 AM
Well, they're robots and we're Man. We are simply superior. That's the ultimate message. Man will prevail.

Or the writers are just simpletons.

Yeah, that teacher terminator could have just walked around the class calling roll and when he got to John, just punched his fist through his chest before he could say Boo.

Instead he pulls out a gun at near point blank range, has the edge of surprise, and MISSES!

But I still think its a fun series so far.

maestrowork
01-16-2008, 05:14 AM
I still don't get why the terminators insist on coming on with guns blazing. THere are so much easier, less obvious ways to kill someone. He's standing in line somehwere, just sneak up behind him, stick a knife in his ribs. Break into his house in the middle of the night and smother him with a pillow. They can't tell someone is a terminator until it pulls out a gun. WHich it always does. And it's aim is always bad, despite all the occular enhancements. I just don't buy it. I was willing to go along with the movies, the first two. But over and over and over these robots prove themselves stupid and incapable. How exactly did they take over the world in the first place?

You watched too many Bourne movies. This is SPARTA!!!

Oh wait. Never mind.

This is Da Terminata! Hasta la vista, baby!

small axe
01-16-2008, 11:22 AM
I really like the two eps so far, love Lena as Sara Connor ... but definitely the writers need to establish some long-term story arcs (which, hey, two episodes so far ... give them some time, peoples!)


Instead he pulls out a gun at near point blank range, has the edge of surprise, and MISSES!


Obviously the robots have never heard of the Iraq War. I have two words I hope they never learn: "suicide bomber"

Any robot in the same room with John Connor should simply have a fragmentation bomb imbedded in it (instead of a handgun):

"Are you John Connor?"
"Why yes, yes I am --"
Cyborg detonates mini-atomic bomb inside its own ribcage, explodes entire city block etc.

If I were the writers, to prevent debates like these, I'd quickly establish some explanation (and mystery) about WHY they have to do something OTHER than merely kill John Connor. Something has occurred in the Timeline change: there is a mysterious Something that one of the hunted Connors will DO that the robots NEED DONE ... before they can safely kill him. He will only DO IT in response to continued attacks (ie, they're pressuring the humans, hunting them into some corner, forcing them to make some as-yet-unexplained error in logic out of desperation, etc)

Remember: we have a mysterious group of Terminator(s) and future humans sent back to "help" John Connor: trust none of them.

If I were the writers, I'd have the Summer Glau (sp?) robot be a sort of seduction/sleeper agent ... slowly seducing John Connor away from his mother's guidance. The Mom and the Sexbot need a love/hate relationship to keep things interesting.

QUESTION: Have the mentioned why there aren't any of the T2 or T3 silver/fluid/shapechanging Terminators chasing them yet?

And QUESTION: In the movie T3, we learned (SPOILER ALERT)
that in fact there IS NO "Skynet" supercomputer they can blow up -- it's all a virus AI spread across the internet, right? Being pre-T3, the Connors don't know that yet ... BUT doesn't the Summer Glau Terminator know that? She's still talking about "finding Skynet" I think.

I'm thinking it will be revealed that the timeline was radically altered, and the whole Terminator future is something radically different than we're expecting.

Until then, I'll watch it. It's a good series, at least 2 eps in ... and has great potential if they let it evolve and grow.

clockwork
01-16-2008, 06:31 PM
I enjoyed the pilot. I thought Lena Headey was a wonderful suprise as Sarah Connor (probably because she reminded me of Nina Myers :) )

I have to agree about the comments of terminator incompetence. I don't blame the writers, I mean, they're fighting a losing battle in that the odds of success should be so astronomically stacked in the bad guy's favour and yet the good guys keep getting away. I'm not sure I can stomach near misses in every episode without hurling something.

What bugged me the most though were the occasional quips. "Class dismissed" and such is majorly lame. What made the bad guys in the films so terrifying was their utter robotic coldness (duh) and their total non-deviation from the task at hand. They didn't have time to make jokes, nor would they care to even if they knew what one was.

I did enjoy it. I'm hoping the first couple of episodes are the shoot-out episodes and we enter into a slower, more contemplative run over the next few weeks.

Shadow_Ferret
01-16-2008, 07:10 PM
And QUESTION: In the movie T3, we learned (SPOILER ALERT)
that in fact there IS NO "Skynet" supercomputer they can blow up -- it's all a virus AI spread across the internet, right? Being pre-T3, the Connors don't know that yet ... BUT doesn't the Summer Glau Terminator know that? She's still talking about "finding Skynet" I think.

SPOILER
I thought what happened was, when the Skynet was activated it was what triggered that AI virus. Without Skynet there would have been no way to spread the virus to every system.


What bugged me the most though were the occasional quips. "Class dismissed" and such is majorly lame. What made the bad guys in the films so terrifying was their utter robotic coldness (duh) and their total non-deviation from the task at hand. They didn't have time to make jokes, nor would they care to even if they knew what one was.


I thought that WAS in keeping with the robots sense of humor from the films. Ahnold saying, "Ah'll be bach," and "Hasta la vista, baby," and such. He had several good quips in the movies.

clockwork
01-16-2008, 07:23 PM
I thought that WAS in keeping with the robots sense of humor from the films. Ahnold saying, "Ah'll be bach," and "Hasta la vista, baby," and such. He had several good quips in the movies.

I'm talking about the bad terminators. In the second Ahnold was a good guy and learned that stuff from Master Connor. It's appropriate for him, no argument there, because it humanises him. But the bad guys need to have zero sense of humour IMO.

Shadow_Ferret
01-16-2008, 07:30 PM
I'm talking about the bad terminators. In the second Ahnold was a good guy and learned that stuff from Master Connor. It's appropriate for him, no argument there, because it humanises him. But the bad guys need to have zero sense of humour IMO.
Yeah, but the first one he was bad and that's where "Ah'll be bach" came from. I think there were a few others, too, but I can't recall them off the top of my head.
*shrugs*

clockwork
01-16-2008, 07:41 PM
Yeah he was very funny in the first one - the bit you said and also when he tells the guy to "get out" of the truck. Difference is, he's not trying to be funny, he just genuinely wants the guy to get out of the truck. And in the second we have the liquid metal guy going up to the motorcycle cop and telling him "Say, that's a nice bike." Again, really funny. But what they didn't do was stop in mid-assassination (one that was rapidly becoming a fuck-up) to turn to a bunch of witnesses who have nothing to do with the mission so he can quip, "Class dismissed." Guh?

But I'm sounding pedantic now so I'll let it go. :)

maestrowork
01-16-2008, 07:43 PM
And don't forget Arnold getting the leather clothes from the male stripper guy. There was a lot of humor, whether the Terminator actually meant it to be funny or not.

Shadow_Ferret
01-16-2008, 08:42 PM
Sometimes I think we, as writers, just overthink things too much and it doesn't allow us to enjoy things the way normal viewers do.

clockwork
01-16-2008, 09:00 PM
Sometimes I think we, as writers, just overthink things too much and it doesn't allow us to enjoy things the way normal viewers do.

You're right. But as a screenwriter, overthinking the film and tv of others is my job. ;)

MissLadyRae
01-16-2008, 10:03 PM
QUESTION: Have the mentioned why there aren't any of the T2 or T3 silver/fluid/shapechanging Terminators chasing them yet?


Because they didn't fit within the budget? :tongue

Seriously I'd love to see the answer to this mentioned in the show. One thing it does have going for it is the spectacular production value that makes it look like a movie (I've only seen the pilot so far). I just hope they don't blow all their money in the beginning with big action sequences that they have to do lame character eps and a Dawson's Creek love story between Cameron and John's character a la BSG Season 3. *shudder*

Lena's an awesome actress. I've been waiting to see how she does as I've loved her other work but I do say I miss Linda. She had a certain edge in her Sarah and I guess Lena is bringing a softer side of her Sarah.

I would have personally liked to have seen Kristanna's Terminator in the Cameron role to offset her killer Terminator in T3 and give it a bit of continuity (kinda like AVP almost did with Bishop, only better). Also it would be cool because Arnold did it in reverse with T1 & T2. But I think we're supposed to pretend that T3 never happened (although I really liked it!) so that's a moot point. :tongue

I'll probably stick around to catch the show as long as its on. I don't have much faith in any interesting show lasting on the Fox Network since they killed Kindred: The Embraced, Firefly and John Doe in their infancy stage. Grr.

Stormhawk
01-17-2008, 01:09 AM
Yeah, but the first one he was bad and that's where "Ah'll be bach" came from. I think there were a few others, too, but I can't recall them off the top of my head.
*shrugs*

Ah, but if you listen to Jim Cameron, the line "I'll be back" was not intended to be funny, witty or anything like that. It wasn't the T-800 pulling decisively pulling out a quip whilst deciding to break through the front of the station, it was just stating a simple truth.

However, he also could have slaved for 72 hours straight labouring over how to make it perfect - with him you never know. :/

Shadow_Ferret
01-17-2008, 01:18 AM
I never said the Terminator was trying to be funny, it was just a funny line.

As with "Class Dismissed." Ther terminator was done with his assignment pretending to be a teacher and as he was leaving, said "Class dismissed."

OK. Lame explanation.

Stormhawk
01-17-2008, 01:51 AM
Didn't mean to misinterpret. Blame the little sparkly lights and the fact that the room is spinning...spinning...

clockwork
01-17-2008, 01:52 AM
As with "Class Dismissed." Ther terminator was done with his assignment pretending to be a teacher and as he was leaving, said "Class dismissed."

OK. Lame explanation.

:roll:

A+ for effort though.

NikeeGoddess
01-17-2008, 04:23 AM
Sometimes I think we, as writers, just overthink things too much and it doesn't allow us to enjoy things the way normal viewers do. not all writers - it's the geeky writers that ruin for themselves. lol! almost every single tv show is illogical but we should be able to just let go and be entertained. and some of the best (highly rated and most watched) shows are the most illogical like 24 and Lost and Prison Break and Seinfeld and etc...

and SF

As with "Class Dismissed." Ther terminator was done with his assignment pretending to be a teacher and as he was leaving, said "Class dismissed."

OK. Lame explanation.not lame at all. makes perfectly good sense but you should have said "programmed" not "pretending" ;)

BiggerBoat
01-17-2008, 07:51 AM
* Regarding the "Class dismissed" ... the problem is not the quip but that the terminator paused for a good 5 seconds to deliver this little bon mot, while his quarry was getting away. In all of the previous movies, the terminators never let anything get in the way of the job. They were relentless. That's why they were frightening. The terminator shown in the pilot episode was a Keystone cop in comparison.

* I like Summer Glau, and she's got the physicality to play a kick-ass heroine, but the Terminator thing--as written--just ain't working. The transition from flirty school girl to Terminator was awkward and unconvincing

* Maybe Sarah should home school these crazy kids?

maestrowork
01-17-2008, 07:53 AM
* Maybe Sarah should home school these crazy kids?

You would think. Or how about private schools?

MrWrite
01-18-2008, 03:39 AM
My wife and I started watching it last night and changed the channel after about ten minutes. I was hoping for much, much more. Oh well, back to watching Dance War. ;)

I'd watch pretty much ANYTHING over yet another boring "reality" show

NikeeGoddess
01-18-2008, 04:58 AM
sarah connor --
the briefly showed her ID in the first ep - said she only weighed 104 lbs - no muscle weight at all. she should look like this biggest loser trainer.
http://www.jillianmichaels.com/

kristin724
01-18-2008, 05:36 AM
I tuned in for the first fw minutes after Prison Break. I liked Lena Headey in 300 and the chick playing the female terminator was in The 4400, but yes the John Connor sucked, and there wasn't enough weight to the time travel and explanations for me. The entire Terminator series is loaded with paradoxes, but at the same time has some pretty good continuity. I was a bit surprised that this is supposed to replace Terminator 3 of sorts. Wasn't there supposed to be a fourth movie anyway?

MDSchafer
01-22-2008, 07:46 AM
It's not the greatest show on television, but when ever writers try to get away formularic "Will the police catch the bad guy," show that just dominates the TV landscape I'll give them more freedom with things like plot holes, especially when they're taking on a franchise that they didn't create.

As for me, I'm a Terminator kid. Eddie Furlong and I are almost the same age, and for a period of time in the 90s had the same haircut. I've seen T2 more times than I can count. I remember sneaking into the movie theater to see it three times in one week. I still love the franchise and while Sarah Connor Chronicles isn't developed how I would have liked, its still getting off a far sight better than two other icons of my youth Aliens and Predator.

It's not bad, the fourth episode was pretty good. Summer Glau is doing a fine job playing a terminator, Richard T Jones is compelling, Lena Headey is turning in a fine performance in another actress's iconic role. I think John Connor should still be 13, and have problems with a 20 year old playing a 15 year old, but overall its watchable. In my world its a hell of a lot better than Law and Order or American Idol.

Also, if you want to be technical about it John Connor was supposed to be 10 during T2, although Furlong was 13, so two years after T2, which is when the series picks up, Conner should be 12.

ColoradoGuy
01-22-2008, 07:55 AM
If they send someone back to kill him, to prevent him from leading the resistance, then he never lives and there's no resistance, hence no threat or need to send someone back to kill him to prevent him from leading a resistance that now never takes place.

It's a logic-loop.

Or lack of logic loop. Unless parallel worlds are invovled, in that case they can go back and BE succesful, but only the new world they're in will benefit, not the one that sent them.
Maybe it's post-modernist.

RumpleTumbler
02-16-2008, 12:12 AM
I'd just like to have a robot that looked like Summer Glau who wanted to thrash me. ;) ;)

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2008, 12:18 AM
I'm already bored with it. I couldn't get into whoever that actress is playing the part of Sarah Conner.

And personally, I think Summer is kind of odd looking.

RumpleTumbler
02-16-2008, 12:20 AM
I'm already bored with it.

And personally, I think Summer is kind of odd looking.

She's supposed to have that odd look I think. She ain't human. It has to come through somehow other than words. I think she does well with it.

It's not really exciting but nothing much is these days. House and Grey's are about the only two I watch religiously.

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2008, 12:21 AM
I've been watching all the shows on Discovery and History and such. I guess they didn't need writers so they've all been new.

RumpleTumbler
02-16-2008, 12:22 AM
She's supposed to have that odd look I think. She ain't human. It has to come through somehow other than words. I think she does well with it.

It's not really exciting but nothing much is these days. House and Grey's are about the only two I watch religiously. For whatever reason I've caught every single episode of American Idol this year. Never watched a single episode before. It BLOCKED MY DAMN SHOWS. MY STO RIES. House and Bones used to come on when it comes on now.

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2008, 12:27 AM
You just repeated yourself.

You just repeated yourself only you expounded on what you had said.

MrWrite
02-16-2008, 12:42 AM
LOL

MrWrite
02-16-2008, 12:42 AM
LOL it must be catching! ;)

maestrowork
02-16-2008, 01:19 AM
She's supposed to have that odd look I think. She ain't human. It has to come through somehow other than words. I think she does well with it.

It's not really exciting but nothing much is these days. House and Grey's are about the only two I watch religiously.

But that's the thing. In the pilot she looked completely normal, acted normal. And you didn't suspect that she was a robot. Then BAM! You found out she was one of the cyborgs. Then suddenly she was acting like all roboty. That just tested my suspension of disbelief to the max. But like Summer Glau very much in that role. I also like Lena as Sarah. She's hot.

NikeeGoddess
02-26-2008, 06:32 PM
i don't know if anyone is still watching but i'm resurrecting this old thread to say:

oh - i really like this ep.

the "hand of god" analogy
and
the fact that cameron actually wanted to practice ballet and learn - she does have that chess game chip in her, doesn't she?

***
my disclaimer -- i'm not a sci-fi geek or freak so i don't always comprehend what's going on.

childeroland
02-26-2008, 11:47 PM
You almost sound like Captain Janeway on Star Trek: Voyager complaining how time travel paradoxes give her a headache!


If they send someone back to kill him, to prevent him from leading the resistance, then he never lives and there's no resistance, hence no threat or need to send someone back to kill him to prevent him from leading a resistance that now never takes place.

It's a logic-loop.

Or lack of logic loop. Unless parallel worlds are invovled, in that case they can go back and BE succesful, but only the new world they're in will benefit, not the one that sent them.

RumpleTumbler
02-28-2008, 06:22 PM
What the farg? Monday is the season finale?

What were there.....like 5 episodes if that?

Was I abducted by aliens or what?

maestrowork
02-28-2008, 06:30 PM
Writer's strike - you forgot already?

RumpleTumbler
02-28-2008, 06:33 PM
Writer's strike - you forgot already?

Stupid me. I figured they would pick it up and finish it out.

maestrowork
02-28-2008, 06:34 PM
It took a long time to do the script and restart production. The episodes were done before the strike, and now the strike has just ended, it's probably too late for them to finish out the season.

RumpleTumbler
02-28-2008, 06:41 PM
It took a long time to do the script and restart production. The episodes were done before the strike, and now the strike has just ended, it's probably too late for them to finish out the season.

So we have to wait for fall to see Cameron make the sex?

It's not fair I tell ya!

maestrowork
02-28-2008, 06:49 PM
You should be glad that we actually had new episodes of new scripted shows during the strike at all, instead of reruns of Friends... and more reality shows. :D

caromora
02-28-2008, 07:11 PM
So we have to wait for fall to see Cameron make the sex?

It's not fair I tell ya!

If it gets picked up. I read an article yesterday that was basically imploring fans to tune in to the season finale because the ratings have only been so-so and the show is incredibly expensive to make. It is on the proverbial bubble. So, if any of you have a Nielson's box, now is a good time to watch. :)

small axe
02-29-2008, 07:30 AM
It's a great SCI-FI show ... and TV usually screws SCI-FI up.

I'm going thru the local phone book and calling every family listed under Nielsen, and then I shout "You and yer little box better be watching TERMINATOR!" then I laugh evilly (ha ha hahaha ha) and hang up.

I figure, they're Nielsens, everybody has a shoebox or two in a closet somewhere ... it can't hurt.

Dale Emery
03-01-2008, 01:46 PM
Well, they're robots and we're Man. We are simply superior. That's the ultimate message. Man will prevail.

Or the writers are just simpletons.

Now, if the writers were robots, we'd see a whole different attitude!

Dale

Dale Emery
03-04-2008, 06:31 AM
The two-hour season finale starts here (PST) in 90 minutes. Yeehah!

Dale

childeroland
03-04-2008, 09:15 AM
Wonder if Ellison didn't buy it cause he could help Chromartie (was that the one?) track down Sarah or because he no longer posed a threat and Borg-style the terminator just ignored him.

small axe
03-04-2008, 09:24 AM
Still, it was sloppy strategy (well, questionable screenwriting, let's say), leaving him alive, him knowing that the Terminators are real now. It's not like the Terminators don't know the value of remaining unknown or having their mission remain a secret.

Shadow_Ferret
03-05-2008, 08:43 PM
How come the terminators never thought of sending a terminator back that looks like either Sarah or her son? Seems a simple enough strategy to get close enough to kill them.

maestrowork
03-05-2008, 08:48 PM
Why don't the terminators send a bunch of them back, build new robots in 1997, and start the war right then? Or how about 1967? Kill Sarah Connor's parents?

Time Travel stories are always so silly.

RumpleTumbler
03-05-2008, 10:16 PM
I just want one of those Summer Glau robots.

Man, she could put a hurting on ya. :)

V.W. Singer
03-09-2008, 02:58 PM
One thing that no one emphasises with regard to the time travel aspects of the story is that Skynet and the human resistance only get one shot in each "iteration" of time. When Skynet pressed the button to send the very first Terminator, Skynet's own history would immediately change. If the Terminator succeeded, it would have no memory of John Connor or the Terminator it sent. If it failed, the Connors would have been warned and Skynet would have changed its own history in an unpredictable way. So basically each attempt to send a Terminator would be derived from a clean slate. Even if the failed Terminator managed to survive into the future or leave a message, the future that finally arrives will be very different and any feedback would still be irrelevant. Even in the case of the Connors, if the second attempt is targeted at a point in time before the arrival of the original Terminator, the future for them too would be "reset". So the any Terminator TV series should actually be a completely different show each episode as the "villain" would be different each time with different priorities and strategies. Even the heroes might suddenly change out of all recognition.

RumpleTumbler
03-09-2008, 04:40 PM
You miss the point entirely.

The show isn't about factually accurate time travel it's about sex with hot robots.

As if anyone knows what factually accurate time travel is anyhow. Pfffffffft.

NikeeGoddess
03-09-2008, 10:03 PM
this is probably the one and only time i will agree with RT

it's about sex with hot robots. when the robots travel through time they lose all their clothes and that was some hot stuff in T1 & T2 - arnold walking around all nekkid - youza!!
and now the tension is: now that you're turned on with her toughness, can cameron act human enough to phuck?

tangent alert:
i'm sure there would be a market for a lifesize cameron mannequin - there was a huge surge of sales after lars and the single girl came out

Sage
03-09-2008, 10:09 PM
My friend had the best Terminator-related conversation:

Chad's friend: Okay, so how come the terminator chick could act human in the first ep and later she's wandering around all in a daze?
Chad: Oh, that's not the terminator. That's Summer. She's in shock that the show's lasted more than three eps on FOX and not been cancelled yet.

V.W. Singer
03-09-2008, 10:50 PM
You miss the point entirely.

The show isn't about factually accurate time travel it's about sex with hot robots.

As if anyone knows what factually accurate time travel is anyhow. Pfffffffft.

Oh I quite agree. But then the series should have been done on cable or something where there is half way decent nudity and better violence like HBO's Rome. Summer could forget to get dressed all the time.

small axe
03-10-2008, 04:46 AM
One thing that no one emphasises with regard to the time travel aspects of the story is that Skynet and the human resistance only get one shot in each "iteration" of time. When Skynet pressed the button to send the very first Terminator, Skynet's own history would immediately change. If the Terminator succeeded, it would have no memory of John Connor or the Terminator it sent. If it failed, the Connors would have been warned and Skynet would have changed its own history in an unpredictable way. So basically each attempt to send a Terminator would be derived from a clean slate. Even if the failed Terminator managed to survive into the future or leave a message, the future that finally arrives will be very different and any feedback would still be irrelevant. Even in the case of the Connors, if the second attempt is targeted at a point in time before the arrival of the original Terminator, the future for them too would be "reset". So the any Terminator TV series should actually be a completely different show each episode as the "villain" would be different each time with different priorities and strategies. Even the heroes might suddenly change out of all recognition.

Interesting ideas. But ... hmmm ... If a "future" SkyNet sends a Terminator back to Now ... whatever happens in the Connors' Now ... nothing changed so much that SkyNet wasn't there in that "future" to send the Terminator back ... right?

I mean, SkyNet cannot send back a Terminator that screws up the future so badly that SkyNet wasn't there to send back that Terminator. (Just like the classic paradox example that the granddaughter cannot go back in time and kill the grandfather, preventing her from being born to ever go back in time to kill the ... ah, yeah ...)

SkyNet is always evil and sending back Terminators.

UNLESS ...

Has anyone else caught that strange comment at the beginning of the show each week, where Sara Connor says that SKYNET sent back Terminators to kill AND protect her son?

SKYNET sent them back? To do BOTH?

:)

RumpleTumbler
03-10-2008, 03:13 PM
Summer could forget to get dressed all the time.

:roll:

I nominate you for director.

V.W. Singer
03-10-2008, 11:43 PM
Interesting ideas. But ... hmmm ... If a "future" SkyNet sends a Terminator back to Now ... whatever happens in the Connors' Now ... nothing changed so much that SkyNet wasn't there in that "future" to send the Terminator back ... right?

I mean, SkyNet cannot send back a Terminator that screws up the future so badly that SkyNet wasn't there to send back that Terminator. (Just like the classic paradox example that the granddaughter cannot go back in time and kill the grandfather, preventing her from being born to ever go back in time to kill the ... ah, yeah ...)

SkyNet is always evil and sending back Terminators.


Actually Skynet did exactly that in the first movie. Sarah Connor was dumb and happy until the Terminator turned up. This triggered the chain of events that has her go after the creator of Skynet and train John Connor. Skynet has changed its own past. It may still exist, but the path to its creation and the path that John Connor takes to become leader of the humans is different since he now knows what is supposed to happen. He becomes more or less of a threat at any particular time and place, so Skynet's motivation and timing changes too. It is no longer the original Skynet that sent Arnie back in the first place.

It becomes more fun if you assume branching timelines. Then you will have different versions of Skynet and the Resistance sending agents back further and further in time to pre-empt each other's actions in order to restore the "original" timeline. If the other timelines become aware of this they might actually strive to block the "corrective" actions which would delete them from the time stream. Eventually you will have a bunch of Terminators from both sides and multiple time streams battling away in the neolithic age :D

Heck with it, I'll stick with Summer forgetting to get dressed. Bet that will improve the ratings.

Shadow_Ferret
03-10-2008, 11:53 PM
I mean, SkyNet cannot send back a Terminator that screws up the future so badly that SkyNet wasn't there to send back that Terminator. (Just like the classic paradox example that the granddaughter cannot go back in time and kill the grandfather, preventing her from being born to ever go back in time to kill the ... ah, yeah ...)

Well, then we're in time travel theory that each Terminator sent back creates an alternate timeline. If they succeed in killing the Conners, then that creates a new timeline. If the Conners succeed in destroying Skynet, that creates another timeline.

The future is never effected because that has happened already, that is a seperate branch in the timeline. In the original future, where Skynet creates the Terminators and there is a resistance, and I guess John Conner's team ultimately destroys Skynet (otherwise why send back Terminators to stop John?) happens no matter what and can never be altered no matter what happens in the past.

Only new alternate futures are created.

childeroland
03-11-2008, 03:14 AM
Could that explain the differences between the canon established by T1 and T2 and dates of the past the Connors recall on the tv show?

shawkins
09-11-2008, 06:05 PM
You know how a lot of times great shows start off with a mediocre first season? I wasn't crazy about the first season of Sarah Connor Chronicles, but I just watched the first episode of the new season and all I've got to say is

WOW!!!!

I don't want to over-hype it, but I went in not expecting much and I was absolutely blown away. If you saw Terminator III in the theaters and walked away feeling violated, this will cure you.

Un-be-frickin'-leeeeeeeevable.

Anybody else catch it?

shawkins
09-11-2008, 06:10 PM
Whoopsie. Sorry, missed the existing thread. Thanks, modly person.

MrWrite
09-11-2008, 06:11 PM
No dammit I missed it! Is it being shown again any time soon?

shawkins
09-11-2008, 06:14 PM
Not sure, but Fox will stream the full episode off their website:

http://www.fox.com/terminator/

maestrowork
09-11-2008, 10:44 PM
And I shook Summer's hand. :heart:

Shadow_Ferret
09-11-2008, 11:14 PM
You know how a lot of times great shows start off with a mediocre first season?
Funny. I'd completely forgotten this show was still on. This is why its so rare for me to make it to a season 2.

shawkins
09-11-2008, 11:47 PM
And I shook Summer's hand. :heart:

No chit? How'd that come about?

vixey
09-11-2008, 11:56 PM
Funny. I'd completely forgotten this show was still on. This is why its so rare for me to make it to a season 2.

But - you started the thread . . .

We were in to it last season, too. Guess we'll have to rig the computer up to the projector and watch it tonight. :D

maestrowork
09-12-2008, 02:51 AM
No chit? How'd that come about?

I was at ComicCon and went to the panel. She was really, really lovely in person. I sat close to the front and at the end went and shook her hand.

Shadow_Ferret
09-12-2008, 07:04 PM
But - you started the thread . . .

We were in to it last season, too. Guess we'll have to rig the computer up to the projector and watch it tonight. :D
I know I STARTED the thread (well, now I remember since you reminded me). That doesn't mean I haven't forgotten in the 6 months it's been in reruns or off the air that it existed.

6 months or longer plays havoc on my short term memory.I can't tell you how many shows I've stopped watching simply because I forgot they were on. Or that I lost interest in because their absence. And many were shows I loved.

Out of sight, out of mind.

vixey
09-12-2008, 08:23 PM
I can't tell you how many shows I've stopped watching simply because I forgot they were on. Or that I lost interest in because their absence. And many were shows I loved.

Same here. With the writers' strike last year we slipped into channel surfing the History Channel (I call it the war channel), Food Network, some of the encore movie channels (we don't get HBO, etc.). Before that we were very much into Heroes (until 24 came on) and Lost (until it got too corny). Sarah Connor chronicles was a breath of fresh air.

This summer we followed the Robin Hood series on BBCA. Now my 17-yr old daughter is chomping at the bit for that one to resume.

Tachyon
09-16-2008, 06:02 AM
My dad and I were watching tonight's episode, and I just had to pause it at one point after Agent Ellison and Charley Dixon tell Dixon's wife about the Terminators etc.

The gist of what I ranted about:

This is set in present-day, right? Does anyone in this show watch science fiction?! I mean, if someone I knew told me that machines were taking over the world, sure I might be sceptical at first. But it's not totally implausible. At least, science fiction these days makes it look pretty plausible. Why is it always such a big surprise?!

Anyway, I pretty much only watch it because of Summer Glau. :D

James81
09-16-2008, 04:11 PM
As far as I am concerned, this show doesn't exist.

I'm a big Terminator fan and this show is just terrible. It completely destroys the premises of the movies.

Shadow_Ferret
09-16-2008, 07:33 PM
The gist of what I ranted about:

This is set in present-day, right? Does anyone in this show watch science fiction?! I mean, if someone I knew told me that machines were taking over the world, sure I might be sceptical at first. But it's not totally implausible. At least, science fiction these days makes it look pretty plausible. Why is it always such a big surprise?!

Anyway, I pretty much only watch it because of Summer Glau. :DSorry, but if someone came to me about a story of machines taking over, Sci-Fi reader or not, I'd be a LOT skeptical. I'd treat them the same if they said aliens or Big Foot, or the Loch Ness monster. I'd be looking around for the guys in the white coats to be coming to take them away.

And am I the only one who doesn't find Summer attractive?

shawkins
10-21-2008, 03:01 AM
GOD, I LOVE THIS SHOW.

To all those, including me, who weren't impressed by season 1--here's the first 5 minutes of season 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwW2D2lsOI0

FYI, Fox just (10/20/2008) renewed for the full 2nd season.

ETA: You can also get the season thus far off http://www.fox.com

RumpleTumbler
11-16-2008, 07:57 PM
Bring on the robot love! :e2tongue:

RumpleTumbler
12-13-2008, 11:46 PM
Canadian Man Builds Himself Robot Girlfriend (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,465844,00.html)

Check out the movie at the bottom.

Zoombie
12-14-2008, 01:45 AM
Wow, that actually looks REALLY COOL!

I ahve to see this show...

darkprincealain
02-23-2009, 10:20 PM
On a whim, catching up on Dollhouse, I started back up with this where I had left off. Season 2 ep. 6 was my last, before last night where I picked up with ep. 7. To my mind, I think I may have not given it enough time. I liked the Ellison and Cromartie storylines more than the main one, but given time I think this could be more than just stylish angst, if the show could stop being so uneven.

small axe
04-06-2009, 02:43 AM
Hi. okay, i waded back about five Forum pages to find an existing TV Terminator thread (to spare starting a new one and fragmenting things etc) see pleassssse forgive an ingenue question?

I missed some episodes, and I'm lousy with characters' names ... but ...

The traitor woman who Kyle was loving on and who killed John's GF? The Australian girl on the submarine?

I get that she and Kyle knew each other in the future and were lovers then (she lost their baby in the submarine wreck etc) ...

:Wha: But did the series ever establish if they were (or were not) from ALTERNATE REALITY futures?

That the Aussie woman who came back, was from a slightly different future than Kyle was from ... because of something the Connors had done that changed HER future but not Kyle's?

And did they explain what had been changed? How their two future histories differed?

Mr. Chuckletrousers
04-06-2009, 03:24 AM
:Wha: But did the series ever establish if they were (or were not) from ALTERNATE REALITY futures?
I think so, yes.


And did they explain what had been changed? How their two future histories differed?
In Jesse's future there is no Andy Goode, because Derek killed him in season 1. Various timelines in the Terminator universe (http://io9.com/5191092/10-different-timelines-from-the-terminator-universe).

[SPOILERS AND DISAPPOINTMENT]
I doubt your questions will be answered by the show any more fully than they already have been, because a) the show has almost certainly been cancelled and has only one more episode to air, and b) both Derek and Jesse appear to be dead, and their storyline is unlikely to be further delved into.
[/SPOILERS AND DISAPPOINTMENT]

childeroland
04-06-2009, 03:27 AM
Hi. okay, i waded back about five Forum pages to find an existing TV Terminator thread (to spare starting a new one and fragmenting things etc) see pleassssse forgive an ingenue question?

I missed some episodes, and I'm lousy with characters' names ... but ...

The traitor woman who Kyle was loving on and who killed John's GF? The Australian girl on the submarine?

Jesse.

I get that she and Kyle knew each other in the future and were lovers then (she lost their baby in the submarine wreck etc) ...

:Wha: But did the series ever establish if they were (or were not) from ALTERNATE REALITY futures?


That the Aussie woman who came back, was from a slightly different future than Kyle was from ... because of something the Connors had done that changed HER future but not Kyle's?

And did they explain what had been changed? How their two future histories differed?

I'm not aware of any alternate reality futures. I assumed Jesse and Cameron came from the same future and because of Jesse's experiences with John's terminators she wished to split up John and Cameron. At first I thought Jesse might even be a Grey, though I wonder if perhaps she comes from some anti-Connor, non-terminator faction and merely wants to depower futureJohn by causing a rift between he and Cameron.

EDIT: I thought yawl meant futures that somehow run parallel to each other and still exist somewhere. Do the futures that result from different happenings (say, the murder of Goode) still exist -- and are they alternate -- or are all these futures merely the same future differently effected at various times by changes in the past? And I thought everything from Terminator 3 was invalidated as noncanonical. Am I wrong?

maestrowork
04-06-2009, 03:38 AM
I think there's a cause-effect alternate universe thing happening to Jesse and Derek. Derek came back first, from future A. Then Jesse "escaped" future B.

Jesse came from an alternate future, and her knowledge prompted Derek (who did not have memory of any of that) to do something that created the alternate future to begin with.

I think the idea of Terminator is that you can change the past, thus changing the future. Since Derek came back first, whatever he and Sarah and John did in the past changed the future. The alternate future idea is the core of the Terminator myth. Certain big things still haven't change so far -- Sarah still died sometime (just not 1997 or whenever), John still survived and ended up leading the rebellion, etc. But certain things changed along the way. Jesse's future is even darker than Derek. And the irony of it is that her coming back to the past might have caused her future in the first place...

childeroland
04-06-2009, 03:56 AM
If Catherine Weaver (the T-1001 who replaced the real Weaver) is trying to create a more compassionate Skynet, as the io9 article intimates, is it possible she is working for futureJohn? After all, if she is the same T1001 from Jesse's submarine, maybe she changed her mind about John's proposal of a Terminator-human alliance. It seems apparent, at least, that there is some sort of machine civil war in Jesse's future (future B?) that futureJohn is trying to exploit.

Mr. Chuckletrousers
04-06-2009, 04:10 AM
If Catherine Weaver (the T-1001 who replaced the real Weaver) is trying to create a more compassionate Skynet, as the io9 article intimates, is it possible she is working for futureJohn?
It's possible. It seems more likely however that she is working parallel to FutureJohn rather than for him. I.e. she is attempting to create/strengthen a pro-human, anti-Skynet machine-faction that does not obey FutureJohn but works towards similar goals (preventing Skynet from exterminating the human race).

maestrowork
04-06-2009, 05:23 AM
I agree T-1001 is working in parallel and not for John. John wouldn't allow/condone her killing innocent people. However, I do think that she's trying to understand humanity and create a more pro-human Skynet.

small axe
04-06-2009, 08:37 AM
Thanks for all the answers (especially that 10 timelines site) and thoughts -- it helped alot!

Yes, I'd heard this season might be the last, but I was hoping that with the next big HIT MOVIE about to come out, someone would think: whoa, why cancel the series NOW?! Let's see how much the hit movie hypes the ratings etc.

If the movie makes hundreds of millions of $$$ ... why not gamble ten million $$$ or so supporting another half-season on TV just to see if it takes off?

maestrowork
04-06-2009, 08:48 AM
The movie is going to be a prequel though... so if anything, it will spawn more prequel stuff -- set in the future. I think the past stuff (terminators running around trying to kill John Connor) has kind of run its course.

small axe
04-11-2009, 08:35 AM
I doubt your questions will be answered by the show any more fully than they already have been, because a) the show has almost certainly been cancelled and has only one more episode to air,

Good lord! If THAT was the last episode ... can someone explain to me what the hell happened in the last ten minutes or so?

Why wouldn't Cameron pass on Wheeler's message "Join us" to John?
Why did Cameron cut out her own chip?
Why did Wheeler take John into the future?
Why didn't Cameron or Derek recognize John Connor?

Did that make sense to you who have had a better grasp than me of what was going on?

Or did it just knowingly leave all those questions unanswered?

childeroland
04-11-2009, 09:57 AM
Why wouldn't Cameron pass on Wheeler's message "Join us" to John?
Sarah and Cameron thought Weaver was developing Skynet, not an opponent to it.

Why did Cameron cut out her own chip?
To let John Henry escape before Skynet could catch up with him -- he was tied to Weaver's machine otherwise.

Why did Wheeler take John into the future?
Not sure about that myself. If the future changed again because Skynet caught up with Weaver's faction, maybe she needed John to send back Derek and Cameron to help Sarah fix things? *reaching*

Why didn't Cameron or Derek recognize John Connor?
That wasn't Cameron in the end, it was Allison.

Mr. Chuckletrousers
04-11-2009, 09:26 PM
I was a little confused by the extra blob of liquid metal that joined Weaver after the crash in her office. Upon reflection I think it was the Moray eel that she was talking about in the prior episode -- the one that eats other eels (which I suppose is the writers telling us that Weaver is a machine that kills other machines).

The ending is, I think, a good place to leave the series. The episode left a bunch of questions unanswered, with lots of possible threads to pick up on if a miracle occurs and the series is renewed for another season. But if it is not renewed then this was also a good wrapping up episode. The implication of the ending is that John has jumped to the point in time where John Connor 'historically' (so to speak) begins to lead the resistance (i.e. prior to the Reese brothers leaving and Alison being replaced by a terminator), and John will now become the leader he was destined to be.

small axe
04-12-2009, 02:32 AM
Aha! And that's why the girl petting the doggie was Meaningful! Now I get it.

Thanks for the help.

I sure wish they wouldn't cancel that show. I admit it had some mis-steps (the blond girl Riley story just left me blah) and I missed some episodes so I always felt a little out of focus and behind on subtle things ... but I liked it lots.

I'd keep it. The coming movie might bring in a bigger audience next season, is all I'm saying. Add some sexytime and it could be a hit! (As opposed to some other new loser series ...)

RumpleTumbler
04-12-2009, 02:39 AM
Add some sexytime and it could be a hit! (As opposed to some other new loser series ...)

I love the series. I must admit I'm for some robot loving, however, normally this tactic ruins a series for me.

Grey's Anatomy started out with the patients being the focal point and it was great and moving but they quickly moved to the sex lives of the characters being the focal point of the story and now it sucks.

I thought Saving Grace would be ok as I like Holly Hunter but with every episode trailing off into her sexual deviance I quit watching. That and she says shit about every third word.

small axe
04-12-2009, 08:27 AM
I gave them big points for trying, though, when Cameron strips off her clothes in front of John and is doing the whole "get on top of me" thing.

Then she pulls out the dagger and I'm ... okay ... I would've gone for the hot candle wax on the nips crowd, myself, the dagger isn't taking us anyplace interesting.

What? You can't reprogram a Terminator with the kinky? Somebody's missing their series-rebooting opportunities, I say!

Didn't BSG teach them nuthin' ???

DOLLHOUSE, on the other hand, immediately followed and got theirs into her bondage leathers quite efficiently, I thought ... :)

childeroland
04-12-2009, 08:55 AM
But Dollhouse isn't doing much better than Sarah Connor, unfortunately.

maestrowork
04-12-2009, 09:00 AM
The problem I find with Sarah Connor is that after two seasons, it still hasn't gone anywhere... there are some plot developments that are interesting (Weaver and John Henry, for example -- makes you wonder who they are and what they're doing). But for me, it seems like they're just going around and around and around, unsure where exactly they want to take the story. And that's probably why some fans are giving up -- it's like, hey guys, where is this thing going? Where is the arc?

Dommo
04-12-2009, 01:41 PM
I like the whole idea of John Henry, because in my book having a "good AI" is realistically the only way to defeat skynet. It also makes sense that there'd be a machine underground, as periodically there could be machines who fall into one of a few categories.

1. Live long enough that they start to accrue quirks and glitches that occasionally foster genuine personalities. This possibly leads to some not desiring to do the whims of an overlord who has no concern for their welfare.
2. Some machines might come out of the factory defective, and may learn enough to where they start programming themselves(Ahnold from T2 fits this case, where his chip is set to write).
3. These free machines once they begin to gather, start to pull in more of their own kind, and possibly begin to build their own.

However skynet doesn't like this shit, as it would see these machines as a threat(as is anything that isn't controlled by it), and would seek to bring them back into the fold or destroy them. In the same vein they're machines and the humans would probably destroy them just as willingly. The free machines are fucked to an extent from all angles save one. So the free machines come up with a plan. They build their own AI.

However this AI, must meet certain criteria. The free machines know that as the situation stands in the future they're boned either way. If the humans win, they're going to have a fight on their hands that they may or may not be able to win, and if the machines win then skynet will surely curb stomp them for their insolence. Thus the machines figure that they need to seek a middle road.

They decide to create an AI that's powerful enough to take on skynet, but at the same time making sure that it's empathetic and kind so that it can keep on good terms with humanity and remain friendly to the individual machine. This way the free machines can have their freedom without having to fight what they perceive to be a pointless war against humanity, and ensuring their future survival from skynet.

I think the free machines really don't give a rat's ass about humanity, as long as the humans leave them alone to do their own thing. But the machines are right in seeing the prejudices of the humans(as seen during the submarine episode), and this is probably what drives them to create John Henry.

James81
04-12-2009, 06:20 PM
The problem I find with Sarah Connor is that after two seasons, it still hasn't gone anywhere... there are some plot developments that are interesting (Weaver and John Henry, for example -- makes you wonder who they are and what they're doing). But for me, it seems like they're just going around and around and around, unsure where exactly they want to take the story. And that's probably why some fans are giving up -- it's like, hey guys, where is this thing going? Where is the arc?

The problem I have with the series is that it has completely and totally shit all over the franchise, watering it down and breaking pretty much every rule that James Cameron had set in the first two films.

Bradster
04-14-2009, 03:36 AM
In my opinion, this is the best show currently on television. When it first aired, I was definitely skeptical; it just seemed like the networks were milking an old idea instead of coming up with something new. And yeah, that's exactly what they were doing.

But the show very quickly engaged me. All the characters are perfectly cast, by really charismatic actors. Summer Glau, as the female terminator Cameron, is particularly outstanding. But what I really like about the show is that it's a drama first, a science fiction show second. Most science fiction television shows work the other way around, and this really weakens them. I think the broad appeal of shows like Lost and Battlestar Galactica comes from this very fact--they're dramas first and foremost.

Has the series strayed from James Cameron's films? Sure--and who cares. Heck, Cameron himself strayed from his original vision when he gave Terminator 2 a completely different ending than the first film (and an ending that's a complete logical paradox...).

But really, I don't care so much about the complex plot intricacies. What really makes the show worth watching for me is the writing of the individual episodes. It's outstanding, and just keeps getting better and better. The actors, the writing, the dialogue, the haunting musical score--it's all great.

I'm truly bewildered why this show hasn't garnered more of a following. Maybe it just hasn't been well publicized, I really don't know. But I hope it gets renewed; I definitely look forward to watching it each week.

maestrowork
04-14-2009, 04:40 AM
I have to disagree on the writing -- they had so many "Who write this ****" moments to make me grit my teeth. Meanwhile, I love the writing on Lost and BSG, and the original Terminator, so I don't think I'm biased.

childeroland
04-15-2009, 06:46 PM
An interview on where the third season might have gone. From Comic Book Resources.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=20811

RumpleTumbler
04-19-2009, 06:13 AM
Why didn't Cameron or Derek recognize John Connor?

I think the general feel is that Cameron in the last scene was actually Allison from Palmdale and perhaps Derek hadn't met John yet or the alteration of the future by past events farged things up. I dunno.

maestrowork
04-19-2009, 06:56 AM
That's Allison. Derek hasn't gone back in time yet so he wouldn't recognize John.

ETA: Also, it would be an alternate future for John because he had "disappeared" in 2009, so the original John Connor (40-some years old) didn't exist. He didn't grow up to lead the resistance. That's why Derek and everyone didn't recognize the name.

It seems like the third season, if it hadn't be canceled, would be set partially in the future where young John will have to find John Henry with the help of Weaver, Derek, his father Kyle, Allison, etc. and then somehow go back to the past and continue with his real time line. He will, however, change a few things.

It's too bad. It's just getting more interesting now. I think they meandered for too long. If the plot has gotten to this point much more quickly (say, mid-season), the show may have survived. Instead, we're stuck with the exposition and Riley/Jesse plotline that really didn't go anywhere.