Magic Circles

I think that's one of the things you decide for yourself. It may just be that no demon has been smart enough to realize he could throw a rock at said magician. It may also depend on the circle that's been drawn and the summoner's individual power. For all I know, maybe there's more than one circle - one for summoning and one for protection. Or maybe one for summoning and one for inhibiting the demon from thinking about harming his summoner (or acting on said thoughts). I'm not personally familiar with this area, so this is mostly my own take on it without any previous knowledge.

~DragonHeart~

It depends on how magic works in your world.

In some stories magic circles protect only against the supernatural. In other stories they protect against anything inimical.

As long as they're consistent, just make them work the way you want. Consider this set of options: 1) The magic circle is airtight, so the chars can only stay inside for a limited period of time. 2) Air can get in, but so can poison gas. 3) The magic can discriminate between healthy air and harmful gas. Each of those is a perfectly good possibility, but each leads to different story problems.

Some stories have the person outside the magic circle and the demon/summoned being trapped within. If the summoner is smart, they've cleared all chairs or rocks out of the circle ahead of time.

I don't think the "real" magic circles are as set in stone as other elements (werewolves, vampires etc).

Erm. Metaphor. Need one.

Werewolves, vampires etc, those are well explored and generally fall into one of a limited number of types - think of them as operating systems. Magic circles, on the other hand, being used for different things, in different ways, in different places, with different power levels, think of them as programs - variable, and harder to classify.

There could be any number of magic circle types - and any one magician could use more than one, it would just depend on what they needed, or what they had the power to summon, etc.

I know, but I won't tell

Shadow_Ferret said:

I know this, it's just that with anything, magic circles, werewolves, vampires, zombies, etc. there is a canon of literture along with real mythology and legend that I like to try to be somewhat true to, and I was curious as to what the belief is about a "real" magic circle.

What did Alester Crowley believe, for instance? Or other real sorcerors and such?

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SF-

All of this - and much, much more - can be found in 30 seconds with a Google search. In fact, you'd be amazed at the extra info you'd find that you didn't even expect if you do the research yourself.

I'm not saying this to be an ass. Just that, for some questions, finding out is better than asking. For instance, if you just type "magic circle" into Wikipedia, you'd be started on a search that would yield all sorts of neat background for your work.

Some other Wikipedia keywords for this topic-

Goetia
Key of Solomon
Aleister Crowley
John Dee
Ceremonial magic
Theurgy
demonology
necromancy
Hermetic philosophy

Also check out James Blish's classic dark fantasy Black Easter.

Best of luck!

The magic circles that I have created in the past have stopped all negative energy entering, be it zombie or object.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Actually, I have tons of links on paranormal and supernatural. I have many books on the subject of magic circles and sorcery.

I don't recall any of them talking about demons throwing rocks though.

That's why I asked.

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Depends on where you want to go with it. I've read books where nothing can go in OR out of the circle, whether magic or not. I've also read books where only magical things were limted, and something like an animal or a person or whatever could cross the line (though usually the human crossing the line broke the circle).

Why hasn't a demon ever picked up a chair and gone WWF on the summoner? Because every summoner I've ever read about clears a space for the circle, thus putting those things out of its reach in the first place. I can't think of a single exception to this rule.

Don't see why it couldn't throw a rock, though. That'd be funny.

People protecting themselves within a circle... I think Jim Butcher had his character draw a circle in the basement for protection, and it kept out inanimate objects so long as the character didn't cross the line. Those were his rules though, yours could be different.

Sassee said:

Depends on where you want to go with it. I've read books where nothing can go in OR out of the circle, whether magic or not. I've also read books where only magical things were limted, and something like an animal or a person or whatever could cross the line (though usually the human crossing the line broke the circle).

Why hasn't a demon ever picked up a chair and gone WWF on the summoner? Because every summoner I've ever read about clears a space for the circle, thus putting those things out of its reach in the first place. I can't think of a single exception to this rule.

Don't see why it couldn't throw a rock, though. That'd be funny.

People protecting themselves within a circle... I think Jim Butcher had his character draw a circle in the basement for protection, and it kept out inanimate objects so long as the character didn't cross the line. Those were his rules though, yours could be different.

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That's true.

I'm thinking of that magic circle scene in Skeleton Key. It didn't seem to help Heather Graham much from large mirrors.

I've read something that had magic circles - usually different wardings were set up if there was a complex ritual going on, or if the characters wanted to speak without being spied on, or if there was a battle going on.

Mostly, they prevented physical attacks through the barrier too, and were more involved than just a pentagram drawn on the ground that could be wiped away.

In modern witchcraft, typically you determine what the purpose of the magic circle is as you cast it. For example, you could create a ring of protection around your home, saying that nothing harmful will enter your space. That would apply to both psychic and physical attackers. That's looking at it from a practical magic sort of view.

In CM, the rules change a bit, because sometimes in ceremonial magic the whole purpose of a ritual is to conjure up some being from beyond in order to command them to do the mage's bidding. I do remember reading somewhere -- and I can't remember exactly which source it was, but could have been Crowley -- that a demon can't move or interact with physical objects by picking them up or touching them, because the demon itself is a nonphysical entity.

Ultimately, I think the best circles cast are ones in which the caster has actually thought out what they're trying to keep in, and what they want to keep on the other side.

Magic circles were once used seriously as Occult "technology".

There are many surviving books and manuscripts, dealing with magic circles and personal Grimoria.

I have read quite a few of them, and have yet to come across one promising protection against physical objects.

However, as a writer of fiction, I would have no problem letting a magic circle protect against that too.

Its really up to you.

What you will...

IIRC the historical grimoires:

Different demons have different powers. Not all can chuck rocks.

The spells wrapping a circle vary - they're just a skeleton on which you hang protective enchantments. Plausibly, you could have one circle which protects only vs irate imps, and another that can withstand a nuke.

Summoning spells themselves are usually laced with commands not to injure the summoner.

Also, one tends to summon spirits into some sort of containment - e.g. a triangle, flame, orb etc - which may or may not also limit their behaviour depending on the supporting spells.

Finally, there's a feeling that demons only manifest as strongly as you summon them.

zornhau said:

IIRC the historical grimoires:

Also, one tends to summon spirits into some sort of containment - e.g. a triangle, flame, orb etc - which may or may not also limit their behaviour depending on the supporting spells.

Finally, there's a feeling that demons only manifest as strongly as you summon them.

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That reminds me; A fine way to contain a spirit, is to arrange for somewhere it can take up residdence. A historical example of this, is the use of Gargoyles, who despite what most people think, were not originally to ward of evil spirits, but to lure a spirit to take up residence (the spirit could then protect the ower, or his house). Another of these "containers" is the Hebrew Golem. To find others look for Totems and Fetishes (as in a fetish object, which is not necessarily sexual).

Only a master would be able to ensure a spirit wouldn't manifest too strongly. Done rightly you could summon "parts" of a spirit. Normally just the "parts" you need. In that way its easier to control.

For what it's worth, I have a short story where the protagonists break out of a circle: first by throwing apples and then their backpack.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Actually, I have tons of links on paranormal and supernatural. I have many books on the subject of magic circles and sorcery.

I don't recall any of them talking about demons throwing rocks though.

That's why I asked.

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Okay, here are two approaches. The first is from the Wikipedia entry for "magic circle." The second is the first result of Googling the words "Aleister Crowley" and "magic circle."

1. Demons are spirits. They do their damage through magic and possession. They're not solid enough to chuck rocks, and a magic circle will keep them out.

"In Wiccan Rede it is said to: 'Cast the circle thrice about To keep unwelcome spirits out'" - Wikipedia

2. The magic circle protects the summoner against magical attacks; and a second symbol, another circle or triangle, imprisons the summoned being and prevents it from doing physical harm.

"Here they traced a circle in the sand, inscribing it with the various sacred names of God. A triangle was then traced nearby, its perimeters likewise inscribed with divine names and also with that of Choronzon. This was correct magical practice. The magic circle provided protection for the magician; the Triangle of Art was intended to contain any visible manifestation of the forces "called up" or evoked by Perdurabo." - The Place of Enchantment: British Occultism and the Culture of the Modern, by Alex Owen

A circle of protection should only have the demon within, or the spellcaster within, nothing else.
Protective circles in Wicca ceremonies should not be crossed but the one who made it can 'cut' a doorway with an athame or wand or their hand if a celebrant needs to leave, or somone new wishes to enter. Children and animals may cross in and out without breaking the integrity of the circle.

Well, I think this is really an issue of "it's your world - what would you like to have happen?"

In the vein of traditional occult (please don't quote me on this) I believe that warding circles serve the same purpose through two different means. The first means, and the most familiar, is the circle that wards - keeping the target of the protection safe from supernatural harm. The second - the circle that binds - used mostly in summonings, protects the summoner from harm by the target of the summoning.

There is nothing that says you cannot develop warding of other sorts. Wards against physical harm and such. But I would becareful with these as you can easily say, "my wards protect against all." Charms that protect, baubbles and such offer some great opportunities for story telling. Take a look at Neil Gaiman's "Stardust" (the flowers).

Ed,

Although I would hate to question the veracity of a Wikipedia article, let me give my more plebian sources a whirl.

Generally speaking, throughout the ages (magical circle casting actually predates the Classical era) there are two different types of magic circles cast. One is a ceremonial circle designed to keep the spellcaster protected from whatever they conjure up, and the other is a spiritual space designed so that the spellcaster can commune with his/her god/goddess. The first type is what you're asking about, while the seond is what is primarily used by practicing pagans today.

Now then; theoretically, the protective magical circle is actually an invisible sphere, built arounf the spellcaster in the center. It is a magical environment created and built fromthe spellcaster's personal power. If you imagine a sphere of evenly spaced rays of light, for example, the person would be inside of it like a gerbil in his cat-proof walking ball (sorry Ferret--had to use a different rodent as an example ). If you look at it THAT way, then a spellcaster who is powerful enough could concievably create a magical circle that could repel physical forms of attack as well as supernatural ones.

Aleister Crowley (restrains the rolling of her eyes) babbled on a bit about spell circles and I don't remember a darn thing about what he said specifically. However, Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa )1486-1585) in his De Occultia Philosophia -p 1583 said:

A circle doth answer to unity, and the number ten; for unity is the center, and circumference of all things; and the number ten being heaped together returns into a unity from whence it had its beginning, being the end, and complement of all numbers. A circle is called an infinite line in which there is no terminus a quo nor terminus ad quem, whose beginning and end is in every point, whence also a circular motion is called infinite, not according to time but according to place; hence a circular being the largest and perfectest of all is judged to be most fit for bindings and conjurations; whence they who adjure evil spirits are wont to environ themselves about with a circle.

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Agrippa is a real kick, by the way. The loony old bird was a lot of help to me when I was researching something 'odd' a while back.

To make a long story short, then, if you look at the magic circle as more of a magic sphere it might help you twist your thoughts around a conjured power repelling a physical attack. I have to admit, though: I think the image of a demon chucking rocks at a sorcerer protected by his magic circle is hysterical. it almost has a Goldman/Princess Bride sort of edge to it. *grin* I found a lot of great stuff on www.esotericarchives.com/esoteric.htm if you want to go digging about some more. It's one of my favorite source sites for magic, folklore, witchcraft, and so forth. If you actually have the time and patience to go picking through the site, you can get resonably useful translations of some old medieval supernatural texts.

oh and by the way, there are several trains of thought on what happens if the spellcaster's magic circle is broken unnaturally. Say for example that the spellcaster uses salt to 'draw' his circle. If that drawn line is broken before the ritual is done, as in if someone accidentally drags their foot across the salt and breaks the unbroken line (see the symbolism there?) that bad things can happen. that might be a direction in which you want to take your rock-tossing demon. One of my favorite scenes from David Eddings was in Enchanter's End Game where the Morind magician accidentally stepped out of his circle of protection and his pet demon ate him while the young hero rid himself of his breakfast. I still get a shiver of joy every time I read it.