Advice from a writer. Do you agree?

Mystic Blossom · Jan 9, 2008

Today I had a chance to speak to a patient at the dental office I work at, who also happens to be a writer with his first novel coming out this summer. He had some advice for me, and I was just looking to get everyone's opinion on it.

I told him I've beensubmitting to a publishing house that normally requires an agent, but through a fluke received a contact, and his advice was actually to stop looking for an agent as long as I have the opportunity to submit to the publisher, and instead, get a contract lawyer. Would anyone else recommend holding off on agent searches in this situation, or can an agent still help, especially with such an iffy chance I'll actually be accepted.

He also suggested hiring a professional editor, but I don't have that much money right now, so I'd probably have to borrow from my parents, and the cost could run upwards of a thousand dollars. Is it worth it, or can I get the same quality of editing from a beta reader who's been found on the forum or tracked down from one of my writing classes?

Thanks for any discussions/advice!

DeleyanLee · Jan 9, 2008

If you want an agent, then keep looking for one. If an editor has requested a full from you, tell them that. If you've got an editor who said "send me the next thing you write", mention that too. Those are good things that agents want to know. But if you want an agent, you should keep going for one regardless of other advice. You have to make those decisions for yourself. It's your career.

Professional editors are still a luxury at this stage of the game, to my experience. Most of my multi-published friends don't use them, FWIW. Do the best you can with what you have available--that's all you can ever do.

Best of luck.

chartreuse · Jan 9, 2008

Well, my personal opinion (and I've not yet had a novel published, so take it with a huge grain of salt) is that it couldn't hurt to submit it directly to the publisher if you've got the opening. If they've okayed you doing that, I don't think they would look negatively upon you not having an agent.

I do think that in this scenario a contract lawyer is a good idea (obviously, one that is familiar with the publishing industry) but you would need to familiarize yourself with what kind of deals are standard for your particular kind of novel - the lawyer probably won't know that - and you want to make sure you're being treated fairly.

I've also heard of some folks snagging a publisher's interest and then using that to seal the deal with an agent. At that point, it's practically free money for the agent.

geardrops · Jan 9, 2008

Mystic Blossom said:
... get a contract lawyer.

Literary agents, AFAIK, know bookish contract law. If you get a contract lawyer, make sure they know laws on books and not, say, construction. Or even film. Publishing is its own legal beast.

Toothpaste · Jan 9, 2008

And as ever, Agents do far more than just look over contracts.

Mystic Blossom · Jan 9, 2008

dempsey said:
Literary agents, AFAIK, know bookish contract law. If you get a contract lawyer, make sure they know laws on books and not, say, construction. Or even film. Publishing is its own legal beast.

That's partially what I've been thinking. I know it's easier to get an agent once you have a publishing deal anyway.

Claudia Gray · Jan 9, 2008

I'd go for the agent. A contract lawyer who actually knows his stuff would probably cost at least as much as an agent's commission, and with an agent, you get a relationship and advice that count for much more.

maestrowork · Jan 9, 2008

Until you have a publishing contract in hand, keep looking. And even if you have a contract, having an agent would help.

ChunkyC · Jan 9, 2008

Mystic Blossom said:
He also suggested hiring a professional editor, but I don't have that much money right now, so I'd probably have to borrow from my parents, and the cost could run upwards of a thousand dollars. Is it worth it, or can I get the same quality of editing from a beta reader who's been found on the forum or tracked down from one of my writing classes?

Hard to say if you'd get the same quality of editing from other sources. It's entirely possible since there are good and bad 'pro' editors just as there are good and bad beta readers.

Mind you, a thousand bucks is an awful lot of money to pay when even if you get a deal, odds are it won't be for huge wads of cash. Personally, I'd rather work hard at learning to self edit and find a good agent who will help whip the book into shape. Between yourself and your agent, you might do just as much good for your book as a for-hire editor.

gerrydodge · Jan 9, 2008

maestrowork said:
Until you have a publishing contract in hand, keep looking. And even if you have a contract, having an agent would help.

If they are a reputable publishing house, they'll probably recommend you get an agent if they want to buy.

JoNightshade · Jan 9, 2008

I'd go for the agent. I'd think about it as more than just this one book, but all the books you will ever write. I mean, I want someone who will manage all that stuff, know the business, and be my advocate. You won't get that type of relationship or attention from a contract lawyer.

Will Lavender · Jan 9, 2008

If at all possible, get an agent.

CheshireCat · Jan 9, 2008

Never take advice from anyone whose first book is coming out soon. They're in the Danger Zone that generally runs from Book #1 to about Book #10.

You start out by thinking you know pretty much everything (because you did, after all, sell a book in a tough business), only to eventually realize you don't know shit.

Take advice from those of us who don't know shit. We may not be definitive, but we're also not likely to steer you in the wrong direction.

And get an agent.

A literary attorney will be able to tell you which publisher contract clauses "favor the publisher" or are outright egregious, but he or she won't offer to go to bat and fight to change those.

An agent will. And most agents are either experienced with publisher contract language, or else have the contract vetted by a literary attorney on their own dime. (It really doesn't cost much, by the way, to have a literary attorney go over a standard publishing contract. Usually a few hundred bucks.)

Marian Perera · Jan 9, 2008

Toothpaste said:
And as ever, Agents do far more than just look over contracts.

Exactly. I was thinking as I read the OP, "Would a contract lawyer have mentioned that the ending of my book would be better if the romance part was left open-ended? Would a contract lawyer have suggested that a minor character be a little more fleshed out in his first scene?"

illiterwrite · Jan 9, 2008

Agent.

I also wouldn't recommend getting a professional editor either. You'll have to do the dirty work yourself some day -- might as well learn how now.

JeanneTGC · Jan 9, 2008

Great opportunity to get an agent. You have a contract, select a small group of agents who are reputable, on your "wish list", and accepting new clients, contact them, explain the situation, ask if they would be interested in representing you.

Mystic Blossom · Jan 9, 2008

I think he thought the lawyer would be handy for the agent's contracts, but I feel like at that point, you're just adding to a long tab of things that aren't really necessary.

Will Lavender · Jan 9, 2008

Mystic Blossom said:
I think he thought the lawyer would be handy for the agent's contracts, but I feel like at that point, you're just adding to a long tab of things that aren't really necessary.

If you sign with a reputable agency, chances are the contract is going to be pretty standard. You can probably run the details through a few folks at AW and they will tell you if everything checks out.

Mystic Blossom · Jan 10, 2008

Thanks guys. I feel much more confident about my decisions now =D

Susan Gable · Jan 10, 2008

gerrydodge said:
If they are a reputable publishing house, they'll probably recommend you get an agent if they want to buy.

Really? That's quite a generalization. I know of a number of "reputable" publishing houses who buy from unagented authors.

An editor at Avon this summer repeated that a bad agent is far worse than no agent, and that they happily work with unagented authors.

Harlequin has loads of unagented authors from whom they regularly buy novels.

That said, if you are going to be your own agent, you'd better DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Know what's considered "normal," what things you're more likely to be able to negotiate, etc.

Elaine English out of DC is a well-known literary attorny. I've known a number of authors who've used her to go over contracts for them. She is also a "full service" agent as well.

Susan G.

Bufty · Jan 10, 2008

Use your contact, and if the Publisher likes the manuscript and tells you so, then you might well need an Agent. With an interested publisher, that shouldn't be too hard. What happens next? See what the Agent says.

My two -penneth. Good luck.

Bartholomew · Jan 10, 2008

If you've got an offer from a publishing house, you're going to be much more attractive to agents than 90% of the other queries.

nevada · Jan 10, 2008

Being a cynical b*tch, I wonder who his book is coming out with? Vanity? Real publisher? I'm always a little skeptical of anyone who recommends a professional editor. But that's just me.

DeleyanLee · Jan 10, 2008

nevada said:
Being a cynical b*tch, I wonder who his book is coming out with? Vanity? Real publisher? I'm always a little skeptical of anyone who recommends a professional editor. But that's just me.

I know of at least one very reputable SF/F publisher who does no copy edits on their books. It's totally the author's responsibility (and costs) to take care of that detail for their books. Good reason to be skeptical, but not a guarantee that it's not a reputable publisher.

CheshireCat · Jan 10, 2008

DeleyanLee said:
I know of at least one very reputable SF/F publisher who does no copy edits on their books. It's totally the author's responsibility (and costs) to take care of that detail for their books. Good reason to be skeptical, but not a guarantee that it's not a reputable publisher.

Want to name them? Because I'm more than a little dubious that any reputable publisher wouldn't take care of copy editing.

None of the ones I know of consider that the author's responsibility.

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