can any genre/cross-genre mix with romance?

In general, most genres are getting into having interpersonal subplots as a by-product of becoming more character oriented. I think this is what a lot of readers are picking up on when they start talking about it being "Romancy".

But as far as actual Genre Romance/Anything else crossovers go, I don't find it to be true at all, though all the gods know I've wanted it so for well over a decade.

Explanation: The driving (and defining) force of Genre Romance is the Interpersonal Conflict between the Hero and Hero and the solving of the question of how two people so wrong for each other can be so perfect for each other.

The driving (and defining) force of most any other genre of fiction is External Conflict--overcoming a problem, solving a crime, saving the world.

Finding a driving conflict that is both External enough for other genres AND Interpersonal enough for Romance is beyond damned hard. (Closest book I've ever read is Body Electric by Susan Squires--though the science in her SF was a lot of handwavium. The book was marketed as "General Fiction", which I think seriously hurt its sales, FWIW.)

To me, it's like trying to power a car with both an engine and a horse--one or the other is going to win out and the other is just tagging along for the ride. To boot, such "crossovers" end up dissatisfying to both sides because there's too much Romance in it for the Mystery/SF/F/Horror/whatever readers and too much boring Mystery/SF/F/Horror/whatever stuff weighing down the Romance for the Romance readers.

Because one or the other will come to the fore, it's actually easy to figure out what its place is--which is good. I mean, it really sucks when people come back with a "This is great, but I'd have no idea how to market it" rejection and having the genre fit takes care of that problem.

Actually, I think romance is now "crossed" with almost every genre possible.

We have paranormal romance. We have romantic suspense. We have SF romance. Yes, we even have YA romances. I mean, the Rita/Golden Heart even have a category for YA. (At least...we used to. I'm not totally up-to-speed with the new categories they rolled out for this year.)

It seems to me that these days, "crossing" is all the rage. It multiplies market, and it gives the reader more "bang" for the buck.

Of course, there are still markets for the "pure" genre stuff, too.

Susan G.

SciFi Romance is a sub-genre, e.g. "Gabriel's Ghost" by Linnea Sinclair.
YA Romance is a sub-genre, e.g. "Adios to my Old Life" by Caridad Ferrer.
Both these books won RITA's.

I can't think of a SciFi/YA/Romance novel/author off the top of my head. Clara Bow might know. She's the SFR expert around these parts.

Personally, I love the diversity of the sub-genrefication of romance, and am currently reading any SciFi Romance I can get my hands on.

Susan Gable said:

Actually, I think romance is now "crossed" with almost every genre possible.

We have paranormal romance. We have romantic suspense. We have SF romance. Yes, we even have YA romances. I mean, the Rita/Golden Heart even have a category for YA. (At least...we used to. I'm not totally up-to-speed with the new categories they rolled out for this year.)

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Those are all sub-genres, which is different from a cross-over novel.

A sub-genre still has the main genre demands (Interpersonal conflict, HEA, heroine throughline) intact with the different "flavors" in the subplots to give it the distinction within the main genre.

A crossover novel, by definition, is a book that is shelved in one area of the bookstore (ie: Romance) but readers of another genre will "cross over" the aisles to read this book in a section that's not their normal haunts (ie: Mystery, SF, Fantasy, Western, Literary, etc).

Two totally different things.

Melanie Nilles said:

Is there a place for such a mixed up cross of genres?

seepage of genre lines across one another.

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In light of DeleyanLee's post, a little clarification about what you mean might be good

DeleyanLee said:

Those are all sub-genres, which is different from a cross-over novel.

Two totally different things.

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Give some examples.

You mean, say, Janet Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series, which are mysteries, but romance readers will read them?

And I don't know that you're the one "getting" the original poster's intent, and I'm the one not getting it. Melanie seemed, to me, to ask if there was a place for books that were more than one genre.

She described her book as something that could be a romance novel, but yet, it's also YA.

Subgenres as I described are simply the "mainstreaming" of books that combine two different genres. Yes, the ones I mentioned are mostly shelved in the romance fiction (even say, Luna books, which were Fantasy romances), but readers of OTHER genres will venture into the romance section to buy them. So, how is that different from what you said?

<scratching head>

Susan G.

dolores haze said:

I can't think of a SciFi/YA/Romance novel/author off the top of my head. Clara Bow might know. She's the SFR expert around these parts.

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You're too kind! The problem is, when I was a teen, I only read adult SFF. I don't even remember coming across or reading any YA SF/Romance books. Currently, Scott Westerfield's UGLIES comes to mind, but that's pushing it and the romance is a subplot (I haven't read it, so don't quote me on that). I used to be on a YA loop for almost a year, and despite the large number of published YA authors present, I never once encountered a YA book with SF and romantic elements. It was mostly paranormal, fantasy, or contemporary. Maybe someone else will chime in with some titles.

I was under the impression that sub-genre refers to a category you know a book is in prior to publication, and that crossover refers to what happens when readers go outside their preferred genres to read a particular book (although I said it much less artfully than DeleyanLee). Stephanie Meyer's TWILIGHT is a good example of a crossover novel.

Agent Nathan Bransford posted something related yesterday. So, Melanie, if you're looking to mix up genres within the broader YA category, all it takes is an agent/editor who loves the story, because it'll be shelved in YA.

As for sub-genres of romance, that's trickier from what I've read. Lord knows I love my SF&F to have romances (of varying degrees), but if the SF-Romance balance is closer to 50-50, then booksellers might not know where to definitively shelve it--it'll depend on the bookseller.

Those are all sub-genres, which is different from a cross-over novel.

A sub-genre still has the main genre demands (Interpersonal conflict, HEA, heroine throughline) intact with the different "flavors" in the subplots to give it the distinction within the main genre.

A crossover novel, by definition, is a book that is shelved in one area of the bookstore (ie: Romance) but readers of another genre will "cross over" the aisles to read this book in a section that's not their normal haunts (ie: Mystery, SF, Fantasy, Western, Literary, etc).

Two totally different things.

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Nope. I'll have to disagree with you here. The PURPOSE of subgenre fiction is for cross over marketing. A romantic suspense, properly done, appeals to BOTH romance readers and suspense/mystery readers. Regardless of where the book is shelved, the goal is for readers to follow the book.

As for whether there are any YA SFF romances on the shelves, now---sure there are, and they're big sellers, so there's definitely a market. Check out:

Amelia Atwater-Rhodes (who sold her first YA at 13, which has been picked up for a movie.) One good one is for the fantasy romance angle is "Hawksong"

Mary Hoffman. Her "Stravaganza: City of Stars" novel is YA with both SF and romance, plus political intrigue and other things thrown in.

Kara Dalky is another good one. Her book, "Ascension" is the first of her "Water Trilogy."

So, good company and all that. Go forth and submit it, whatever it may be.

Cathy C said:

Amelia Atwater-Rhodes (who sold her first YA at 13, which has been picked up for a movie.) One good one is for the fantasy romance angle is "Hawksong"

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Tamora Pierce writes in the YA fantasy romance category as well, right?

Susan Gable said:

Give some examples.

You mean, say, Janet Evanovich's Stephanie Plum series, which are mysteries, but romance readers will read them?

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Yep, they're fairly popular as I recall. Likewise Wen Spencer's Ukiah Oregon (SF) was fairly popular with Romance readers and was up for a couple of Romantic Times awards. Both would probably qualify as crossover books because of the intricacies of their interpersonal/romantic subplots.

And I don't know that you're the one "getting" the original poster's intent, and I'm the one not getting it. Melanie seemed, to me, to ask if there was a place for books that were more than one genre.

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I addressed the difference between crossovers and subgenre in this post: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1945943#post1945943

Hope that helps explain how I took the question.

She described her book as something that could be a romance novel, but yet, it's also YA.

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YA is like Romance--it has so very many subgenres as to pretty much cover any interests.

Subgenres as I described are simply the "mainstreaming" of books that combine two different genres. Yes, the ones I mentioned are mostly shelved in the romance fiction (even say, Luna books, which were Fantasy romances), but readers of OTHER genres will venture into the romance section to buy them. So, how is that different from what you said?

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FWIW, Luna is officially a Fantasy imprint of Harlequin/Silhouette (much like the SF/F publisher Tor now has a Romance imprint). Romance is not required according to any of their guidelines (that I've noticed, it's been a while since I've looked at them, I admit). The big requirement is that Luna books be heroine-centric stories instead of hero, which might add to the impression that they're Fantasy Romance instead of straight Fantasy.

Melanie Nilles said:

Maybe that's why I really liked writing it.

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If you're loving your story, that's all that really matters, isn't it?

Worry about marketing once you've got it done, polished and ready to submit.