Running a farm

What kind of farm, where? Different deal set in AK v. AZ v Ireland.
You've probably chosen your setting, so if you post it, it will guide the answer.
For ex, cold weather farming has the ice-chopping chores, a highger worry about newborns not coming too early. Desert farms have the drought concerns a a verr different sert of predators to contend.
Got lots o' farming details for some locales though.

It also matters a lot what time era you are talking about.

Basically, the work never ends on a farm. If you have cows, they have to be milked every 12 hours, no matter what. No vacations, holidays or days off -- even for funerals. Many farmers do that about 5 am and 5 pm (maybe 6 am and 6 pm.) Selling milk and butter is often a good source of "extra" income, so they may have a lot of cows.

During the growing season there is almost endless work. Turning the ground, fertilizing, planting, weeding (or cultivating), pruning, dealing with insects and diseases, harvesting, preserving or selling the harvest. Plus, most farms are constantly falling apart (due to a lack of cash.) So, you need to constantly repair everything -- the barn, the fences, the pump in the well, the steps on the porch. (You can’t afford to pay a plumber or carpenter, because the farm isn’t making any money.)

In the fall you chop wood from the wooded acerage on your land, which you use to heat the house (because – you guessed it – the farm doesn’t generate enough income to heat the house with gas, electricity or oil.)

On a stereotypical family farm the men grew crops like hay, corn, soybeans or wheat and milked. The women were responsible for the garden (which provided vegetables for the family), and the chickens, in addition to caring for the children and doing all the housework and laundry. During the harvest, the women worked until the wee hours of the morning canning produce, making jams and jellies, so they would have food over the winter.

About the "no animals" thing. A traditional or organic farm is almost a closed ecosystem. It won't really work without the animals.

Thirty years ago I lived on a small family farm in Alabama. We basically raised all our own food (except for coffee, sugar & flour.) That would have been impossible without the animals. (We had 40 acres and 8 people.)

I became disillusioned with the lifestyle when I realized that I was literally working 80 hours per week -- and all we were getting out of the deal was groceries. I could have worked 20 hours at the minimum wage, bought groceries at the grocery store, and come out ahead.

On a small farm, the cows provide milk and meat. The chickens provide an alarm clock, eggs, and meat. Hogs mature fairly quickly, and act as a garbage disposal. The animal’s manure goes to make compost to fertilize the garden & other crops. Unless you are willing to use fertilizers derived from petrochemicals, you need that manure. Otherwise, the soil in the garden and fields becomes depleted in just a few growing seasons.

Traditionally, farmers use mules, horses or oxen to plow the fields. The other alternative is a tractor. It's going to be very difficult for one person working without an animal or tractor to raise enough vegetables to a) meet all their calorie and protein needs and b) sell enough to pay the electric bill, and maybe buy enough gas to drive the car a few times a week.

Also, animals can graze on land that's too infertile, too rocky or too hilly to be used for any crops.

Small farming is not economically viable in the 20th or 21st century. In the example above, 5 of those people were adults who worked "real jobs" full time to support the farm. (And, only half the land had a mortgage.) In a good year, we broke even, counting everyone's salary. Small family farming, as a hobby, can be more expensive than using cocaine.

My grandmother and grandfather each homesteaded on 160 acres in North Dakota. They bought another 160 acres, and that provided a modest income for 60 years. However, they couldn't do it without animals. They had a team of horses, hogs, chickens, and enough cattle to provide food and maintain breeding stock. Their farm was fairly typical of the time. My father's farm was smaller, and he had to work a regular job to survive. My uncle's was much larger, with a large herd of cattle, and he prospered.

However, we had one neighbor who survived on 160 acres and a few small animals. He lived in a shack with his sister and their parents until all eventually died. He never brought in running water, telephone or electricity, so there were few monthly bills. He farmed with horses, but hired some work done at harvest time.

JoniBGoode said:

Small farming is not economically viable in the 20th or 21st century.

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Except in certain countries within the EU Common Agricultural Policy

JoniBGoode said:

If you have cows, they have to be milked every 12 hours, no matter what.

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Unless they are meat cows...


Also, amount of employees/work depends on the farming intensity. You can either (on a sliding scale) manage your animals closely- taking extra care of them during calving/lambing/etc but also managing them daily (most dairy operations are extremely intensive. Any dairy operation is fairly intense due to milking 2x/day or more). On the opposite end you have sheep farmers who turn their sheep out in the mountains and bring them in only for required tasks (for ex- shearing. But they lamb out 'on pasture'). More management generally means more returns, but not always. Sometimes intense management is done b/c you can't get away with ignoring the animals.
Similar analogy works for crops, more or less.

The other thing is that there are quite a few farms anymore that specialize. They are no longer the general farms with different kinds of animals, but dairy farms, or beef cattle farms, or hog farms, or something along those lines. While some of those farmers may put some of their land into growing hay or silage for use during the winter feeding, their primary output is specific.

For example, my grandparents own and run an Angus cattle farm. They mostly raise cattle for beef, although they rent some of their property for crops for extra income, and grow hay and corn for extra silage for use for the cattle over the winter. The farm is not their sole source of income (which isn't unusual for families in farming communities anymore. Most small farmers have a full time job for wages and benefits for their families, and farm for extra income or for love of the land.)

There are quite a few larger farms these days that are being owned corporately, or owned by one family that employs several employees to continue to run. The days that the small family farm could run and provide for a family are coming to an end.

So another thing to decide would be whether you want this to be modern day, or in the days in which a farm could support an entire family adequately and well.

Enraptured said:

I'm looking for information on the practical aspects of running a farm - what would need to be done from day to day. Also, for a farm to support a particular number of people, how much farmland would be needed per person, or would that depend on the type of crops grown? The technology would be fairly primitive, so pretty much everything would have to be done by hand. And because of story constraints, there can't be farm animals (unless they're absolutely necessary for something, in which case I could probably find a way to work them in).

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It would be terribly inefficient and labor intensive to do primitive farming without any animals. If you are going to not have modern machinery it only makes sense to have animals doing most of the work for you. Google "wildflock farming" and visit a local Amish or Mennonite comunity

mollyluna said:

Sheep farming is not sustainable in the US. Unlike cattle, who bite the grass off, sheep pull it up by the roots and destroy the land for both pasture and growing. Maybe in a very cold or very mountainous area which would not be of use for agriculture or other pasturing.

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Well, my example was from NZ, so we are good there

And there are farmers who stock sheep and cattle together in the US. Not sure of the specifics, but the sheep are the secondary stock animal... Common in the midwest, out on range.

And they don't always rip grass out by the roots... but that's a whole topic right there. Grass with strong roots will be cropped low by sheep- so low that other animals can't nibble on the stubs.

In a primitive system if you had Lots of land and a low stocking density of meat animals (sheep, cattle) then you could manage with a few horses (to get around mostly, but other uses as well). Obviously not a situation for new england tho.

the farther west you go the less rain you have, so it takes more acreage to support cattle or sheep. alfalfa is a dependable crop in western kansas. wheat and corn are viable but must be irrigated and sprayed and harvested. the equipment is so expensive that almost everyone leases these days. i'd think beans or maybe an orchard in new england. why not stop by your local county extension and pick up some brochures on what grows in your neck of the woods? in kansas the agent will take the time to visit with you. i imagine that would be the case in any small town. that is a pasture that my dad and grand daughter are walking on--no crops just grass--s6

mollyluna said:

Sheep farming is not sustainable in the US. Unlike cattle, who bite the grass off, sheep pull it up by the roots and destroy the land for both pasture and growing. Maybe in a very cold or very mountainous area which would not be of use for agriculture or other pasturing.

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I have sheep and all my neighbors have cattle. It's just the opposite. That's the whole grange war history of sheep vs cattle. Of course as Bahamutchild said, maybe there is a regional variance of what you are grazing, but for most of the US and most breeds of sheep, sheep clip not pull.

more and more sheep showing up in kansas. my cattle ranching ancestors must be rolling in their graves. i never even tasted mutton until i was in college. my great grandfather had the whole family convinced that sheep were poison. when i found out what i had et, i busted out in a cold sweat! thought i was going to get worms or something!---s6

mollyluna said:

Horses can be incredibly stupid.... They're rather frail too, unless you've got Belgians or Clydesdales. Even stock horses aren't meant to pull plows.

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Agreed, a burro is better for draft in terms of just strength and cost of care and feed vs work done. Also until they came out with the deep plows like 150 years or so ago, the plows were much smaller, didn't cut as deep and were pulled by sometimes people or large goats. If you are trying to be self sufficient with pre-civil war technology you need multitasking, not specialization

shakeysix said:

more and more sheep showing up in kansas. my cattle ranching ancestors must be rolling in their graves. i never even tasted mutton until i was in college. my great grandfather had the whole family convinced that sheep were poison. when i found out what i had et, i busted out in a cold sweat! thought i was going to get worms or something!---s6

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Exactly, that's because the cattlemen won the grange wars and since history is written by the victor, many generations were indoctrinated with false information. When you adjust for georgraphy and compare best breed compared to best breed you will consistently get more pounds of meat per acre from sheep.

look at my avatar. that is a pasture in kansas--west central kansas. those are cows in the distance, not sheep. that is my iwo jima survivor dad walking w/ my grand daughter. cows do best here. the sheep seem to do better in the south of the state. really not enough sheep to tell yet. some cotton springing up in the southwest too. first time i saw that i thought it was snow!---s6

mollyluna said:

Horses can be incredibly stupid. We had two, two count them, walk through barbed wire fences. I hate to imagine a farm where they're the only work animal. They're rather frail too, unless you've got Belgians or Clydesdales. Even stock horses aren't meant to pull plows.

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Cows. Cows are the dumbest creatures on earth. If the lead cow busts out of the fence, and wanders to the highway in traffic, and gets run over by an 18-wheeler, all the other cows will follow right behind her. They don't stop to think, "Huh. Mable is mincemeat. Wonder why?" They don't have the sense of a flea.

After we quit farming, for a while, I wouldn't eat beef because I didn't want anything that dumb to be a part of me.

Pigs, however, are fairly intelligent. And the baby ones are really, really cute. As cute as kittens or puppies.

when it comes to dumb farm animals never rule out chickens. the neighbors have them and they are constantly grazing on my birdfeeders. i chunk them w/ snowballs, my dog chases them. she has even killed a couple. ten minutes after we chase them home, they will be back. when i come tearing out of the door, wild eyed and wielding a broom, they are always so surprised. like a first meeting. one of the kids at school is going to give me some cherry bombs--s6

mollyluna said:

What's the topsoil like in Kansas? I imagine it's more like a dustbowl. Is that accurate? Maybe that's why sheep do better there than cattle. And the farmers also make money from shearing? When sheep were tried in Iowa, the farmers pooled together and had them sheared within a week. It was NOT sustainable. And seeing what they do when the sheep are accidentally cut was kind of gross. Iowa topsoil is black, very rich in nutrients. If it can survive the frost, you can grow it. We even planted citrus trees in our garden. Sheep rip everything out as they feed. Would never want to have sheep again. Mutton--ick.

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That's something very different. Now I see where you are coming from. Wool production is not profitable in America on any real scale, because they can't compete with much cheaper foreign sources and cotton/poly blends and the cost of shearing is more than the value of the wool. If you have wool breeds, they have to be sheared in the spring/ early summer or they'll get heat stroke and wool maggots and die. However, not all sheep need to be sheared. We have Soay which get a good wooly coat in the winter so they rarely go in the barn, but will shed their wool in the spring(it's called rooing) so we dont have the traditional problems associated with wool sheep. If we wanted the wool, it's among the best for handspinning (but would likely break in the commercial carders), but we'd have to shear them before they scraped it off on the closest fencepost or tree.

Also they taste great because they dont put the lanolin into the fat like most of the wool breeds. When you buy "lamb" in the grocery store and eat leftovers cold it leaves a film in your mouth that doesn't taste good. That's the lanolin.

So to correct your original statement to make it correct, "Wool Sheep production is not sustainable on a large scale in the US. Also that is because of the current market conditions, not the animal.

JoniBGoode said:

Pigs, however, are fairly intelligent. And the baby ones are really, really cute. As cute as kittens or puppies.

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On our farm the term stupidpig is one word. They have plenty of acreage and rocks, cinderblocks to play in, woods to root in, old logs to toss around and when the females are willing they get all the pig sex they want. Actually since the females are only in the mood during heat, the males go at each other and still get all the pig sex they want. If they get their head stuck in a fence, do they back out? No, they just stand there and squeal and squeal and squeal trying to push their way through. I sit on the porch and call to the dog, "Nina, theres a pig stuck, go get it out!" So she runs over to the squealing, examines the situation, walks around the gate 3 feet from where the pig got stuck and steps on its nose. Then it will back up and be unstuck. It used to be I didn't have to even call the dog but she's getting older and has come to ignore squealing because they are always squealing (it's almost always squealing about one wanting sex and another isn't willing to stand still)

Another thing they like to do is during the worst storm of the season, pull their enclosure apart and then squeal in the rain or snow. Again, 3 feet away is always the gate they could have just walked through if they wanted to sing in the rain.

It's fun to watch the other animals watching the pigs. The look on their faces is always, "stupidpig."

we have the big, stainless steel corporate pig farms in some counties out here. they are far back from the highway and only visited by a worker to feed and care for them a couple of times a day. they are not the most endearing animal but somehow this seems inhuman to me.

a farmer joke

[FONT=arial,helvetica]A man owned a small farm in Indiana .

The Indiana State Wage &Hour Department claimed he was not paying proper wages
to his help and sent an agent out to interview him.

'I need a list of your employees and how much you pay them,' demanded the agent.

' Well,' replied the farmer, 'there's my farm hand who's been with me for 3 years. I pay
him $200 a week plus free room and board.

The cook has been here for 18 months, and I pay her $150 per week plus free room and board.

Then there's the half-wit who works about 18 hours every day and does about 90% of
all the work around here. He makes about $10 per week, pays his own room and board,
and I buy him a bottle of bourbon every Saturday night. He also sleeps with my wife occasionally.'

'That's the guy I want to talk to --- the half-wit,' says the agent.

'That would be me,' replied the farmer. [/FONT]

Don't forget the cats. My husband grew up on a farm and they always had at least one cat about the place. Even if the farm mainly produces livestock, you have to have winter feed for them, which will be some sort of grain---read, mouse food. You want a cat or so around for vermin control.

If you're working with a fantastic setting, you could choose some other small predator, I suppose, but at the moment I can't really think of one that works. Snakes spend too much time dormant, owls and hawks are too shy, and most dogs prefer large run-able prey to tiny hiding prey.

Izunya

Another farmer joke:

"So, Mr. Farmer," said the reporter. You just won ten million dollars in the lottory. What do you plan to do?"

"Oh," he replied, "I guess I'll just keep on farming til its all gone."

Enraptured said:

I'm looking for information on the practical aspects of running a farm - what would need to be done from day to day. Also, for a farm to support a particular number of people, how much farmland would be needed per person, or would that depend on the type of crops grown? The technology would be fairly primitive, so pretty much everything would have to be done by hand. And because of story constraints, there can't be farm animals (unless they're absolutely necessary for something, in which case I could probably find a way to work them in).

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- I'd start by deciding on what historical period/location you are writing about, before going any further. Further, you writing about a subsitance farm? Or one that strictly grows "market crops?"

-Have you considered talking to the curator of an Agricultural museum that deals with the area/period that you are interested in? (if stuck, try: www.alhfam.org)

-If you are looking at farming from 1840 or after in America, I'd see if I could get my hands on a microfilm copy of the "Manuscript Census of Agriculture" for the area you want to write about....and skim it for what sort5 of farming was going on. The MCA will list farm by farm who was there, what was grown/raised, acreage of all crops, and value of equiptment & improvments.

-Everything by hand is very unlikely if you are talking American/European farming post-1650... draft stock for tilling was the norm for all but the poorest farming, even if owned in common. Moreover, most subsistance farmers will keep meat and dairy animals as well.