Tell me it isn't so ... please

AussieBilly said:

Thanks for sharing these pages with me. Despite seeing writing talent, I just wasn't convinced this man's story would draw interest from the major publishers. Most of the editors are young women who like stories about women invovled in more upbeat storylines.

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What! Are you kidding? Am I to assume that the link between major publisher...editors..young women...upbeat storylines means that only authors who write these types of stories are worthy of publishing.

Now if the person had written my agency doesn't handle "men's fiction" or whatever. I'd understand that.

But the way this email is written...God, I pray that I'm not opening a can of worms. But does this look/sound like discrimination against male stories? Based on what's in the email. I only say that because of what I've highlighted.

Move on - query other agents - it's only one opinion. Try not to read into it more than a "not for me" response.

All that agent is saying (if I may be so brash) is that *she* doesn't know any editors who will buy your story. Other agents may have a whole 'nother set of contacts. Go query them.

Man, that's loopty doopty. My agent and my editor have both talked about a real desire for male protagonist stories in YA, anyway.

Hello folks,

Yep, this is a trend. It's been a trend for over twenty years. When I sent INSIDE THE GREEN CIRCLE to Berkley books their reader reccomended a 'no sale,' calling me a male chauvinest because my police proceedural had no strong women characters. At that time women in the police were not the majority at all. In fact, on the morning watch they were a rarity.

The corporate 'suits' would like nothing better than to make metrosexuals out of their men's fiction characters. It goes along with the feminization of society today. It certainly makes packaging the product easier. Maybe the typical customer in a bookstore or newstand is indeed a woman, but that doesn't mean men don't buy books too.

Glen T. Brock

Most of the editors are young women who like stories about women invovled in more upbeat storylines.

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Almost makes me want to move over to yet another WIP I had in mind within my series...

I'd chalk it up to an odd reply and keep querying. Maybe that agent focuses on ceratin genres or markets are your project fell outside of that. Or maybe they're new, or not very good. Good stories sell, whatever the topic. Heck, agent Janet Reid is a woman and she reps crime novels. She jokes that if someone isn't on fire in the opening pages don't send it to her.

"The Kite Runner" is not about a young woman or upbeat.
"The Lovely Bones" may have a young woman in it, but she follows a lot of men and it's not upbeat.
Harry Potter certainly isn't female or all that upbeat.

Tons more on the bestseller lists that aren't young, upbeat women either. Some arre, but that's the beauty of publishing. Everyone has their own tastes.

Glen T. Brock said:

Hello folks,

Yep, this is a trend. It's been a trend for over twenty years. When I sent INSIDE THE GREEN CIRCLE to Berkley books their reader reccomended a 'no sale,' calling me a male chauvinest because my police proceedural had no strong women characters. At that time women in the police were not the majority at all. In fact, on the morning watch they were a rarity.

The corporate 'suits' would like nothing better than to make metrosexuals out of their men's fiction characters. It goes along with the feminization of society today. It certainly makes packaging the product easier. Maybe the typical customer in a bookstore or newstand is indeed a woman, but that doesn't mean men don't buy books too.

Glen T. Brock

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It might be a trend, but you see a hell of a lot of fiction out there that's by and for men. (Yet, I will concede that the books that often -- though not always -- take off on the bestseller lists are love stories at their core, and they are by and/or for women.

Yet, I do know an editor at Berkley who deals in men's fiction. He has edited Tom Clancy, Ed McBain, Clive Cussler, and W.E.B. Griffith. Not exactly chick lit, and a few of the bestselling novelists of the 20th century.

The response is presumably in relation to your particular type of story and the publishers whom the Agent had in mind to approach re that particular story. You may be interpreting the remarks too widely and outwith the context in which they have been given.

AussieBilly said:

Thanks for sharing these pages with me. Despite seeing writing talent, I just wasn't convinced this man's story would draw interest from the major publishers. Most of the editors are young women who like stories about women invovled in more upbeat storylines.

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Let me guess. This agent is a man? Without a lot of sales? Who has decided, like many an embittered writer, that it's the editors' fault and not his own?

Well, maybe I'm off base there. But it really gets my back up when people make these kinds of blanket gender-based assumptions, despite broad evidence to the contrary. Just going to the library and checking out what's on the new books shelf is sufficient to disprove it.

The only situation that I can imagine in which the statement quoted above would not be utter nonsense is if you're attempting to market your ms. in a genre such as romance or women's fiction, where protagonists are typically (though not universally) female. Otherwise, don't give it another thought.

- Victoria

*Theatrical sigh*

I hope not, or I'm not going anywhere either, what with an unconventional male protagonist in a story that's fairly dark. What's more, I'm a young-ish female writer . . .

AussieBilly said:

Despite seeing writing talent,
I just wasn't convinced this man's story would draw interest from the
major publishers. Most of the editors are young women who like stories
about women invovled in more upbeat storylines.

Click to expand...

This person is a liar, and, as Victoria suggested, eager to blame others for their lack of success.

Look at the current New York Times fiction bestseller list.

Out of the 16 best-sellers, 13 are books by men with male protagonists.

You dodged a bullet in not getting an offer from that agent. A good agent knows more about the market than this idiot does.

Yep, nobody ever wants to read books about men--that's why Stephen King and John Grisham and Clive Cussler and Nelson DeMille and James Patterson and Jonathan Kellerman and Dean Koontz and Tom Clancy and Dan Brown are all starving to death. And Thomas Harris. And Ken Follett.

And, from the literary side, Michael Chabon and T. Coraghessan Boyle and Cormac McCarthy and Jonathan Safran Foer and Dave Eggers and Richard Russo and Richard Ford and Martin Amis and so many others. Yeah, it's a tough world for men.

Don't let it get you down. Keep trying! No two agents are alike, and a story that hits one like spinach could easily be ice cream to another one. Do as much research as you can ahead of time on sites like Writers Market and, of course, this one. If the agent has a website, they will often tell you exactly what kind of things they're looking for.

If you're a new writer, like me, it's easy to take rejections from agents or publishers badly, but if you're only at about a half-dozen agents, you're just getting rolling. You don't want to know how many rejections I've accumulated so far!

You wouldn't want that agent on your team if he has that kind of attitude, anyway. Keep on querying

AB,
Keep querying. This business is VERY subjective. You'll do fine!

AussieBilly said:

This morning I received some bad news ... I had queried a half dozen or so agents on my latest and greatest story and a couple responded rather quickly asking for sample pages. The very next day (today) I opened my inbox to find a rejection from one of those which left me in a quandary. Here is everything except the last line where the agent says "sorry" -

Thanks for sharing these pages with me. Despite seeing writing talent,
I just wasn't convinced this man's story would draw interest from the
major publishers. Most of the editors are young women who like stories
about women invovled in more upbeat storylines.

Now I ask you, is this the newest wrinkle in the publishing field? Must I rewrite the story, changing my hero to a heroine? Do I have to change my name from Aussie Billy to Aussie Billie? Is a sex change likely to help me? Should I change my mind about not voting for Hillary? Are the women finally taking over the world? Oh, woe is me ....

My question is: Has anyone ever run into this kind of knock back before?

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If only stories about women got published for a significant period of time (and I don't see that this is a real trend, but just suppose), eventually there would be a backlash in which they'd need more stories about male protagonists in a hurry. Maybe she meant to say "All the editors I network with are into stories about female protagonists and I should probably update my submission criteria to say this rather than waste your time. Sorry!"

Of course I could be wrong. . .

RainbowDragon said:

Maybe she meant to say "All the editors I network with are into stories about female protagonists and I should probably update my submission criteria to say this rather than waste your time. Sorry!"

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Yep. Instead of being honest about her own limitations, she deflected her limitations onto you, AussieBilly.

If all this agent can sell is women's fiction, then that's all she should try to sell. Obviously, the most cursory look at the market shows that fiction by men, with male protagonists, is selling extremely well.

I do think that this is a good illustration of why Jim McDonald's agent-choosing strategy--query agents who regularly sell books you like to read, and that are akin to the book you've written--is really the best one.

AussieBilly said:

This morning I received some bad news ... I had queried a half dozen or so agents on my latest and greatest story and a couple responded rather quickly asking for sample pages. The very next day (today) I opened my inbox to find a rejection from one of those which left me in a quandary. Here is everything except the last line where the agent says "sorry" -

Thanks for sharing these pages with me. Despite seeing writing talent,
I just wasn't convinced this man's story would draw interest from the
major publishers. Most of the editors are young women who like stories
about women invovled in more upbeat storylines.

Click to expand...

Okay, AussieBilly - the bottom line is, keep querying. This is only one person's opinion. And what of the requests you mentioned? Out of only a half dozen or so, you got two requests for more? I'd say that's a pretty good indication you have something solid, and that's what you should concentrate on.

I can sympathize with you though, because my current MS out in the rounds is a story with a male protagonist and there's the chance I'll receive similar feedback, but we just have to remind ourselves that there are successful books out there that feature a male main character (written by both men and women). A few examples:

LOTTERY by Patricia Wood
I KNOW THIS MUCH IS TRUE by Wally Lamb
SALEM FALLS by Jodi Picoult
CHESAPEAKE BAY by Nora Roberts
THE SMOKEJUMPER by Nicholas Evans
WATER FOR ELEPHANTS by Sara Gruen
BIG FISH by Daniel Wallace
COLD MOUNTAIN by Charlies Frazier
THE RESCUE by Nicholas Sparks
THE GIFT by Richard Paul Evans
SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS by David Guterson

Um, yeah, just a *few* examples. I understand that publishing trends change all the time, and it may be true that there are a lot of editors looking for upbeat stories featuring women, but the best thing you can do, no matter what you are writing about, is to stand by your work, stand by your vision, and believe in your ability. You didn't start writing because you wanted to jump on the latest trend. You started because you had something to say. Stick to your guns, Aussie. You have a lot of support here.