is using "will" instead of "would" appropriate?

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KarlaErikaCal

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Take this for an example:

He’ll miss a lot about living in Chicago, especially the beautiful view of the lake and the sunrise. He liked to walk to the beach early in the morning and lie down on the sand, watching all the darkness disappear as the pink and orange of the sun’s rays started to come out. He liked watching a sunrise better than a sunset though, because he didn’t feel welcome to the cold chills of the night.

[Kyle] talked about the things he will [or would?] miss about Chicago, when moving to Evanston.

I need some clarification. Help?
 

HeronW

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I think will is stronger, more positive in the action. Would is less sure, ambivalent.

These are much like can and could:
I can do that-- translates as the ability is present and strong.
I could do that-- the ability and the will to act on it may or may not be there.
 

shriek

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It depends on whether the passage is, overall, in present or past tense.

Present:
Jim drains the last of his coffee. He's leaving his wife today. He wonders if he will miss her. Will he regret the decision? Will she ever forgive him?

but

Past:
Jim drained the last of his coffee. He was leaving his wife today. He wondered if he would miss her. Would he regret the decision? Would she ever forgive him?
 

KarlaErikaCal

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Okay so will is used for present and would is used for past.

So if it's in past tense, then what heron said wouldn't matter?
 

shriek

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At least, from your example I think that's the distinction you need. But 'would' is also used as below.

I will go to bed now.
I would go to bed now...but I'm not tired. Or I would go to bed now...if only I had a bed.
 

shriek

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That's right.
Unless I'm forgetting something I should be remembering, the distinction between the two ways of using the word disappears in past tense.

In present tense you'd have these distinctions:

Kyle knows he will miss Chicago when he leaves tomorrow.
Kyle knows that if he were to leave Chicago he would miss it.
Kyle knows that he would miss Chicago, if he weren't so happy in Boston.

But in past it would be:

Kyle knew he would miss Chicago when he left.
Kyle knew that, if he were to leave Chicago, he would miss it.
Kyle knew that he would miss Chicago, if he weren't so happy in Boston.
 

ErylRavenwell

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Okay so will is used for present and would is used for past.

So if it's in past tense, then what heron said wouldn't matter?


It's obvious. If it's in the past you always use "would".
 

KarlaErikaCal

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YAY! I get it all now! Thanks guys!
 

kuwisdelu

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You make me miss Chicago, too. And my name IS Kyle! But I've never been to Boston.
 

Rolling Thunder

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These words can also convey different facts:

"I will miss Chicago." - Can be construed as a definite emotional reaction.

"I would miss Chicago." - Can be construed as an emotional reaction tempered by possibility.
 

KarlaErikaCal

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Okay now for another question....

What about in dialogue in a past tense passage?

“Lighten up, Kyle. I’m sure everything will turn out fine,” said Tom.

It sounds weird putting would in there, so is this an exception?

You make me miss Chicago, too. And my name IS Kyle! But I've never been to Boston.

How coincidental! But hey, Kyle is a common name :]
 

doodles

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"Would" is the past of "will" so it's fine using "will" here as it's direct speech:

“Lighten up, Kyle. I’m sure everything will turn out fine,” said Tom.

If you put it into indirect speech, you get:

Tom told Kyle to lighten up and that everything would turn out fine.
 

oneblindmouse

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What about in dialogue in a past tense passage?

“Lighten up, Kyle. I’m sure everything will turn out fine,” said Tom.

It sounds weird putting would in there, so is this an exception?
:]

You can't use 'would' here. Tom is referring to the future and is sure about the outcome, so it's a future, will, rather than a conditional, would.
 

Doctor Shifty

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The issue you are struggling with here is not past/present, but the indicative/subjunctive mood. Most writing is in the indicative mood, but the subjunctive does different stuff. Subjunctive is characterised by a sense of tension, something is being considered that did not, has not, might not, happen.

Examples.
When Kyle leaves Chicago he will miss the mornings by the lake.
If Kyle were to leave Chicago he would miss the mornings by the lake.

The present tense/past tense stuff sounds OK in Shriek's post, but on examination the 'would' is seen to be subjunctive and not necessarily past tense because as the sentences are written the subject is considering something that has not yet happened.

For example, compare -
He wondered if he would miss her.
He wondered, "will I miss her in a week, a month, a year?"
Both examples are past tense. One is subjunctive, the other is indicative - which mostly means 'just plain old normal text'.

OnBlindMouse gets closer with 'conditional' but that's not right on it either. Conditional needs an 'if/then' sense about it. Subjunctive is the name given to this 'hard-to-describe' 'in-between' style of expression. Do a bit of googling/reading on subjunctive. It might bore you silly, or you might really get in the groove about it. :)

Kim - who has never been to Chicago but if he did he would miss it when he left.
 

KarlaErikaCal

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Thanks Shifty, that was very interesting to know. I will definitely look up all those words lol b/c i'm such a newbie when it comes to grammar. Now it's time to get better!

I miss Chicago too... now I'm stuck in the suburbs. I don't even live in Evanston but it's just a town away lol.
 
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shriek

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Yup, I agree with Doctor Shifty.

However, from the OP, it seemed to me the poster was considering using 'will' instead of 'would' in a standard past tense indicative mood passage, hence my past/present tense examples. Apart from being the subjunctive mood, 'would' is also the past tense form of 'will'.

So when you use it in a sentence that is overall in past tense, the word doesn't change whether you're using the indicative mood:
He knew (past tense, indicative mood) that, when he left Chicago tomorrow, he would miss it. (future-in-the-past tense, indicative mood)
or the subjunctive:
He knew (past tense, indicative mood) that, if he were ever to leave Chicago, he would miss it. (past tense, subjunctive mood)
 
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