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Sargentodiaz

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All of us on these forums have one thing in common - we have stories to tell and want to see them so others can read them.
Why is it so damned hard to do?
The bottom line, in my opinion, is simple - Money $$$$$$.
We are outsiders -- unproven commodities. We are trying to get into a society made up of editors, agents and publishers who all attended the same schools and know each other and do not have the imagination to create stories for themselves. Their job is to take what others create and make money -- for themselves as much as anybody.
We can look at the Best Seller Lists and easily see who gets published -- much of their writing poorly done -- in print because of Who They Are and not what they've written. An insurance salesman and a single mother get lucky and make the right connections, giving us Tom Clancey and J.K. Rowling (so there IS hope!).
So, if we wish to get published, our goal after creating the work, is to somehow sell it to a noncreative mind that sees it solely as a source of income. That is something most of us simply do not know how to do.
Sadly, it is not so much what we write that counts but who we are that decides whether or not we make it into print.
That does not mean that our writing skills are not important. But, let's be honest. How many people get credit for writing when it's really a Ghost Writer or Editor that does the work to make it presentable to the public? And yes, as Ousiders, if we don't write "perfectly", they aren't going to bother with us.
There is hope as I indicated above. The secret is to hone our craft and write up to their expectations and do our best to sell our work.
So, hang in there and sooner or later, we'll make the grade. All it takes is getting one foot in the door.
 

larocca

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I've written so much about this topic, "why do we publish?", that I don't wanna repeat myself. Instead, in keeping with the miscellaneous nature of this thread, I want to know what you think of the all-new http://www.chinarice.org which I've just, well, made all-new.
 

eqb

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So, if we wish to get published, our goal after creating the work, is to somehow sell it to a noncreative mind that sees it solely as a source of income.

All the editors and publishers I know love the written word, care deeply about good stories, and prove that daily by working long hours for not much pay.
 

slcboston

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All of us on these forums have one thing in common - we have stories to tell and want to see them so others can read them.
... An insurance salesman and a single mother get lucky and make the right connections, giving us Tom Clancey and J.K. Rowling (so there IS hope!).

Rant much? (Isn't there an icon for that?)

And with regards to the above pair (or any other author) they didn't just get lucky. It's a lot of hard work, and behind the scenes are all the rejection letters and slow starts that we, the reading public, don't get to see. They had other careers, or things to do, but kept writing, kept at it, and made their own luck.

Besides, someone has to like them, too, so there's a fair amount of talent in there. Even if they're not your cup of tea, you don't become a best-selling author by being a hack.

(Regardless of the opinion of high-brow literary critics. :D)

PS: Please, this is a writer's forum. If we were economists, wouldn't we be elsewhere? :D
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
All that talk about Outsiders and the only thing going through my mind is, "Stay gold, Ponyboy, stay gold."

;)

Nature's first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf's a flower,
but only so an hour.

So leaf subsides to leaf,
So Eden sank to grief.
So dawn goes down to day,
Nothing gold can stay.

{With respect to Robert Frost.}
 

Shadow_Ferret

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All of us on these forums have one thing in common - we have stories to tell and want to see them so others can read them.
Why is it so damned hard to do?
The bottom line, in my opinion, is simple - Money $$$$$$.

The bottom line is, write something worthwhile and they'll buy it. Doesn't matter if you have a name or are an "unknown commodity." It's the story that matters. If you don't have the skill to write well they aren't going to give you a second glance. Write well and you have a chance to join that insurance agent and single mother.

Luck has nothing to do with it.
 

swvaughn

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Erm . . .

Actually, it is what we write that counts, as well as how we write it. I never made any personal connections, but I finally signed with a top agent (after writing six or seven or nine novels, something like that) - and I had several great agents interested and requesting partials and fulls, all on the basis of my writing alone. I have no friends in publishing.

Also, my agent has a fantastic creative mind. She's gone through a few revision rounds with me, and her suggestions have made my novels much stronger.

The secret really is to just write well - and to be able to realize when you're doing that, accept your own flaws and work on them, and understand that you are not now, nor will you ever be, flawless and brilliant.

(Please note that when I say "you", I am speaking in general terms, and not directly to you, lvcabbie. :))
 

Cathy C

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Well, this will definitely raise some discussion here! Can't deny that. So, let's go through your assertions one at a time before others pounce upon them:

All of us on these forums have one thing in common - we have stories to tell and want to see them so others can read them.
Why is it so damned hard to do?

Frankly, the easiest answer is that not everybody can write. That's not to say that everybody who's attended a reasonably supplied public or private high school can't put words together into a coherent sentence. But sentences aren't writing, no matter how many of them you put together. There's a flow to books, either fiction or NF---plots and motivations and characters; timelines and logic and dialogue. And not everyone can get it right the first time, or even the tenth.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is simple - Money $$$$$$. We are outsiders -- unproven commodities.

Nope. That doesn't matter one iota, according to every editor and agent I've talked to in about five different genres. Publishers PREFER new writers for the very reason you mention---Money$$$$. New writers are, frankly, cheaper.

We are trying to get into a society made up of editors, agents and publishers who all attended the same schools and know each other and do not have the imagination to create stories for themselves.

Well, sure---that's entirely possible. The skill to recognize good storytelling doesn't necessarily imply the ABILITY to write. Some editors can indeed write. Some agents can. But it's about in the same proportion to the rest of the population. About 1%.

Their job is to take what others create and make money -- for themselves as much as anybody.

You betcha.

We can look at the Best Seller Lists and easily see who gets published -- much of their writing poorly done -- in print because of Who They Are and not what they've written.

This is opinion. Writing skill is a matter of taste. I can look at one book and be enthralled by it, while the person sitting next to me on the bench can scoff and tell me how horrid it is. Tastes vary, and so does writing. But to generalize to say that successful authors can't write is to massively insult tens of thousands of readers who swear their favorite given author can write just fine.

An insurance salesman and a single mother get lucky and make the right connections, giving us Tom Clancey and J.K. Rowling (so there IS hope!).

And let's not forget that they spin a pretty good tale too. ;)

So, if we wish to get published, our goal after creating the work, is to somehow sell it to a noncreative mind that sees it solely as a source of income. That is something most of us simply do not know how to do.

Nor do we have to know. That's why there are agents and editors and marketers. All we're required to do is write a really good book.

Sadly, it is not so much what we write that counts but who we are that decides whether or not we make it into print.

Don't agree, I'm afraid. It IS what we write. Without an interesting concept and solid writing, who we know doesn't matter much.

That does not mean that our writing skills are not important. But, let's be honest. How many people get credit for writing when it's really a Ghost Writer or Editor that does the work to make it presentable to the public?

Hmm... I like to think that I get credit for my own writing. No ghost writers or editors do my writing for me---nor any other author I know. Just ask my hubby, who has spent today "being vewwy, vewwy quiet" while I frantically type on deadline.

And yes, as Ousiders, if we don't write "perfectly", they aren't going to bother with us.

Damn skippy. Perfect your craft, and keep perfecting it. Every author gets better with every book they write. The prose is smoother, the characters richer (at least until they start to run out of ideas...)

There is hope as I indicated above. The secret is to hone our craft and write up to their expectations and do our best to sell our work.

Yep. Hone the craft and exceed expectations. Tough to do, but eminently possible. Just ask the dozen or so AWers who have sold in the last year.

So, hang in there and sooner or later, we'll make the grade. All it takes is getting one foot in the door.

Yep. And the foot in the door is good storytelling! :)
 

maestrowork

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It's ABSOLUTELY about what you write and how you write that get you published.

Look around AW and you will see many first-time published authors (me included), among us, some best sellers. It does happen, and more often than you realize.

Buy their books and see what they've done right the first time around. ;) [I know, I should have been a salesman]
 

CheshireCat

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:rolleyes:

Play nice, gang.

Do we have to? Seriously? :cry:

All the editors and publishers I know love the written word, care deeply about good stories, and prove that daily by working long hours for not much pay.

Yeah, me too. And after twenty years, I know a lot of them.

All that talk about Outsiders and the only thing going through my mind is, "Stay gold, Ponyboy, stay gold."

;)

Ahhh ... me too.

Rant much? (Isn't there an icon for that?)

And with regards to the above pair (or any other author) they didn't just get lucky. It's a lot of hard work, and behind the scenes are all the rejection letters and slow starts that we, the reading public, don't get to see. They had other careers, or things to do, but kept writing, kept at it, and made their own luck.

Besides, someone has to like them, too, so there's a fair amount of talent in there. Even if they're not your cup of tea, you don't become a best-selling author by being a hack.

(Regardless of the opinion of high-brow literary critics. :D)

PS: Please, this is a writer's forum. If we were economists, wouldn't we be elsewhere? :D

Yeah, I love being called a hack by somebody who clearly has no idea how the business works and yet states with "authority" that all the agents and editors are inbred morons who buy and publish garbage.

I'd be pissed, except that I feel certain the cabbie hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of finding out just how wrong he is.

(Hey, I'm playing nice! No four-letter words.)
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
Do we have to? Seriously? :cry:

Yes. I'm mean that way.

Yeah, I love being called a hack by somebody who clearly has no idea how the business works and yet states with "authority" that all the agents and editors are inbred morons who buy and publish garbage.

I'd be pissed, except that I feel certain the cabbie hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of finding out just how wrong he is.


I suspect that lvcabbie is actually here doing marketing. Note their sig line.
 

CheshireCat

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See, that's why you're a mod.

I didn't even look at the sig line. LOL

But, really, what are some of these self-printed authors thinking of in trying this tactic as "marketing?" At best, all they're going to do is maybe encourage the ... more gullible ... members of the forum to try self-printing themselves. Are these guys getting kickbacks from Lulu and other outfits?

Ohhhhh ... that's how you make a living self-printing!
 

Birol

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That's a good question right now.
But, really, what are some of these self-printed authors thinking of in trying this tactic as "marketing?"

They assume a controversial position, which generates discussion, and keeps their names and the titles of their book visible, subtlety injecting it into your subconsciousness so that the next time you are looking for a book, you'll think, "Oh, I've heard of that title," and buy it. It's not assumed that you'll remember where or why you heard of the title or the author.
 

veinglory

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Is it telling they didn't first put in place a system to take advantage of the attention, like a clickable link?

p.s. does my opinion annoy you? Then buy my book!
 

swvaughn

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I'd be pissed, except that I feel certain the cabbie hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of finding out just how wrong he is.


(Hey, I'm playing nice! No four-letter words.)

I dunno, CeCe. I'm counting four there... :)
 

IceCreamEmpress

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I suspect that lvcabbie is actually here doing marketing. Note their sig line.


It's a fascinating marketing strategy, isn't it? 'YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF IDIOTS! BUY MY BOOK!'

On edit: How did I miss that veinglory had already said this exact thing?
 
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