Golden Compass - Movie

Meira

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I just saw the Golden Compass sneak peak. I must say I am truly disappointed. And for the record, I am not normally a movie/literary snob.

What I can say positive:
Casting – perfect
Lee Scoresby’s balloon – fabulous
Nicole Kidman’s performance – brilliant!

But the writing sucked and the movie was so off the mark it didn’t even hit the wall.

Just want to warn Pullman fan’s.

Okay. End rant. :rant:
 

Joe270

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I haven't seen it yet, so I can't offer a review.

I find it really odd that the writer is shooting down his own work. His statements about trying to end Christianity can really hurt his sales and the movie sales.

Why on earth work so hard to break into writing, get nice sales, then push the 'hidden' (not so much in this case) agenda to the point of harming your career?

I'd have let the book speak for itself and keep my mouth shut about motives.

Perhaps the uproar will inprove sales.
 

maxmordon

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I haven't seen it yet, so I can't offer a review.

I find it really odd that the writer is shooting down his own work. His statements about trying to end Christianity can really hurt his sales and the movie sales.

Why on earth work so hard to break into writing, get nice sales, then push the 'hidden' (not so much in this case) agenda to the point of harming your career?

I'd have let the book speak for itself and keep my mouth shut about motives.

Perhaps the uproar will inprove sales.


Perhaps he wants to beat Harry Potter on the book burning market?
 

Joe270

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I think you two are probably right, sales will skyrocket.

Even if they just buy the books to burn 'em. (I never understood how that worked out against the publisher and author, those still count as sales, right?)
 

Chumplet

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I loved the books and I hope the tone is set in the movie, even if they have to simplify and cut a lot of stuff out. I didn't care about the anti-religion stuff and I still don't.
 

Thump

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I hope they don't cut out the anti-religion stuff. What will they talk about then? I mean, the whole of the third book is even more anti-christian than the previous two put together.

I just wish people would lighten up a bit. It's fiction. It's an alternate Chrisitanity. As far as I know, we don't have Daemons or Dust.

I loved "His Dark Materials" in all it's "gay angels", "assassin priests" (nothing new there *coughSilascough*), "let's kill God!" etc glory. I thought it was a lot of fun and handled originally. If people don't want to see it... well, don't go watch it.
 

Meira

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I hope the tone is set in the movie, even if they have to simplify and cut a lot of stuff out.

Unfortunately, imho, they did not succeed in that regard.

I am very forgiving of movies needing to edit and reframe the material. I don't care if they re-order scenes, drop scenes, merge characters, and end the story before book one or pull forward material from book two (LOTR) And, gee, who cares that Nicole Kidman has blonde hair? (She was actually one of the few redeeming features of this film.)

However, poor screenwriting screws up everything.

I'll save my spoiler analysis for this weekend when more people have seen it. Maybe no one will agree with me. We'll see.
 

Joe270

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I hope they don't cut out the anti-religion stuff. What will they talk about then? I mean, the whole of the third book is even more anti-christian than the previous two put together.

As I understand, they are trying to avoid controversy with the first movie, even changing 'church' to 'magisterium' (or something like that). They say the next two will be increasingly anti-christian, however.
 

E.M.Sterling

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I just saw the Golden Compass sneak peak. I must say I am truly disappointed. And for the record, I am not normally a movie/literary snob.

What I can say positive:
Casting – perfect
Lee Scoresby’s balloon – fabulous
Nicole Kidman’s performance – brilliant!

But the writing sucked and the movie was so off the mark it didn’t even hit the wall.

Just want to warn Pullman fan’s.


Okay. End rant. :rant:




I also saw the movie.
I read all three of Pullman's His Dark Materials books and I am sure my opinion will not be popular. Pullman had a great story, but he missed the boat, IMHO. Lee Scorsby and the Iron Bears were the best characters he had. He could have written an entire series on those two that would have bad me on the edge of my seat. When I read the books they were really hard to get into and did not get good until Scorsby and the bears came into view.
I thought that they did a pretty good job with the movie, considering all the long drawn out details that were absolutely impossible to include and did nothing for the story as a whole. I was disapointed that the movie ended almost in the middle of the book and not at the end of the book.
I actually enjoyed the movie a lot. I realize a lot of people like long preludes to the actual meat of the story but I don't. I really don't. When I read a book I want to get to the good stuff and ride it, not have to walk fifty miles until I get to the ride. Give me a long ride any day of the weak but don't make me work to get to it...I guess I am just one of those instant gratification people...and I don't care ;)

Could the movie had been better? Sure. It could have had more of the Iron bear back ground in it and it would have been better. As for all the background about Jordon College etc...I think the audience would have fallen asleep. It did follow the books, it just had to abbreviate some things.
 

james1611

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controversy

I've not read the books or seen the movie...but the bear looks cool.

On ending Christianity...puh-lease, God isn't worried folks. As a christian and a pastor, if you don't like the guy's premise, then dismiss it and move on. Sure, scandal sells books, records, just about anything, (how much can we get on ebay for the dress, Ms. Lewinski?)

If you ignore things, they won't bother you and you didn't give it free publicity ranting about it. :rant:

One interesting thought though...If the polar bear was named "Mohammed" then and only then can you raise a ruckus and execute the writer. :tongue

James
 

Joe270

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On ending Christianity...puh-lease, God isn't worried folks.

It does seem awfully boastful of him, doesn't it? I rather doubt his works could have any impact on a religion which has endured so much more.

That sort of stuff doesn't really bother me, but I would not encourage my children to read them. I try to keep up with their reading, and we discuss the books many times.

I was a bit concerned when my daughter was reading a book in sixth grade which she described as about juvenile delinquent boys in a hard labor camp.

The book was "Holes", a fantastic book.

She could have described it better.
 

maxmordon

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About the controversy, a few words of a famous converted to Catholicism who I share this idea. Let's see if you guess who it is:

There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written
 

Meira

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Lee Scorsby

Lee Scorsby and the Iron Bears were the best characters he had. . .

Didn't you love Lee Scorseby's baloon? I saw that and thought, "Well that solves a few aerodynamic problems." My imagination had a difficult time putting three humans and a bear in a hot air balloon.LOL.

You're entitled to your opinion. At least you're not a book burner.
 

Meira

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Just Christianity?

In response to a number of other posts (of differing opinions) I would like to add that I think Pullman is an equal opportunity critic of organized religion.

Granted. I'll give you the church structure.

But he mentions Yaweh/Adonai. So the Jews take a hit.

And Mohammad saw himself as the last in a line of prophets that included Abraham and Jesus. And, really, when it comes to surgeries on children and acts of cruelty in the name of religious extremism, radical Islam is front and center in the 21st Century. I don't think Pullman is so entrenched in the liberal camp that he'd jump on the "defend Islam in order to piss off the Christians" bandwagon. If he does, I'll think him a hypocrite.

As a stretch I'll throw in the Hindus. They have a creator and a destroyer God. And they have their own share of religiously dictated inequities.

So, when you sum it up, the only people whom Pullman is not trying to jab in the ribs with a hot poker are:

Buddhists, atheists, and existentialists.

Just a thought.
 

maxmordon

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Pullman said in an interview that he modelled the Magisterium out of the Christian Church, because that is the one he had more contact. (His grandfather was an Anglican bishop, I think)
 

E.M.Sterling

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Didn't you love Lee Scorseby's baloon? I saw that and thought, "Well that solves a few aerodynamic problems." My imagination had a difficult time putting three humans and a bear in a hot air balloon.LOL.

You're entitled to your opinion. At least you're not a book burner.




Yes. I thought they did great with all the fantastic machines and the details of the city and the like.

Nope, not a book burner. Hope I never turn into one! ;)
 

E.M.Sterling

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Pullman said in an interview that he modelled the Magisterium out of the Christian Church, because that is the one he had more contact. (His grandfather was an Anglican bishop, I think)




I am curious...did Pullman actually say that the book was about ending Christianity? Because I never read it as such. Especially since Lyra and the other boy (sorry name slips my mind) were to become the *new Adam and Eve*...which to me insinuates the birth of Christianity (or a type of) not its end.

Also several references to God being missing or dead if memory serves me (been a while since I read the book) and that the angles from the heavens were fighting. Each chose sides and in the end there was the creation of heaven and hell???

So, I find all that odd if he was being *anti* Christian. Maybe he was trying to elude to the destruction of all organized religions because they are inately flawed and the creation of a new relgion where everyone is embraced.

Really though...I try not to read THAT far into any book. ;)
 

maestrowork

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Here's from an early review:

A small group of my friends went to see this movie. We consisted of a Mormon, a Catholic, an Eastern Orthodox cleric, an openly gay humanist and a Jew. We all walked away with pretty much the same feeling. That this movie is designed to destroy a belief in anything outside of humanity (a.k.a. a higher power) no matter what that person's faith system happens to be. Even the Jew commented at what she felt was a slam against Christianity in the film. The gay humanist believed that the film was, in his words, "secularist propaganda."
 

Meira

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Okay, that's weird, maestrowork. :Shrug: I'm not trying to start a fight. I know it is difficult to interpret emotions with e-conversations. So, please bear with me.

I don't know where that review came from - your own friends or somewhere else? (I'm presuming elsewhere because of the quote structure).

I can see someone getting that interpretation by reading the entire series of books. But it would be almost impossible to derive that from the movie. Joe270 (above) had it right. They removed all religious references. Nicole Kidman mentions "the authority" exactly once in context of a few lines about the "magesterium," which she defines (in a couple of cheesy lines) as an organization that "tells people what to do for their own good."

Unless someone read the books or followed the controversy closely, they could not have possibly interpreted what your quoted review says. So, I'm baffled.
 

Meira

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I am curious...did Pullman actually say that the book was about ending Christianity? . . .

I have heard him say he is a humanist and an atheist. Also that he disliked the Narnia books. This "ending Christianity" quote has been floating around, but I don't know where it came from. My daughter read on another forum that "Pullman eats babies." I'll let you sort out the authenticity of that statement (ahem).

In spite of all that, I'm not an atheist, and I just loved the books. I like all the references to angels and souls and religion. You don't get that in Harry Potter or LOTR. I am especially intrigued by Pullman's interpretation of the "land of the dead" and what happens when those souls were freed. I guess I'm a bit of an existentialist. So I liked a lot of the philosophy I read.

But I've heard of religious groups (spiritual Christians not affiliated with a specific church) who love the books (also because of all the spiritual, religious references). And I know a lot of people who enjoyed the stories who don't consider themselves atheists (myself included.)

So there is a lot of interpretation up for grabs, imho.
 

maxmordon

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The Catholic Church representation in USA (and not those wackos of The Catholic League) seems to be okey with it


The Golden Compass

By Harry Forbes and John Mulderig
Catholic News Service

NEW YORK (CNS) -- Hollywood history is rife with examples of literary works that by dint of problematic sexual, violent or religious content have been softened to varying degrees to mollify public sensibilities.

So it appears to be with "The Golden Compass" (New Line) which, we'll say right at the start, is a lavish, well-acted and fast-paced adaptation of "Northern Lights," the original title of the first volume of Philip Pullman's much-awarded trilogy, "His Dark Materials," published in 1995.

The film has already caused some concern in Catholic circles because of the author's professed atheism, and the more overt issue of the novels' negative portrayal of his (very much fictionalized) church, a stand-in for all organized religion.

The good news is that the first book's explicit references to this church have been completely excised with only the term Magisterium retained. The choice is still a bit unfortunate, however, as the word refers so specifically to the church's teaching authority. Yet the film's only clue that the Magisterium is a religious body comes in the form of the icons which decorate one of their local headquarters.

Most moviegoers with no foreknowledge of the books or Pullman's personal belief system will scarcely be aware of religious connotations, and can approach the movie as a pure fantasy-adventure. This is not the blatant real-world anti-Catholicism of, say, the recent "Elizabeth: The Golden Age" or "The Da Vinci Code." Religious elements, as such, are practically nil.

The narrative itself charts the adventures of spunky 12-year-old Lyra (Dakota Blue Richards), an orphan who leaves Oxford's Jordan College, where she resides as a ward to become apprentice to a glamorous scholar known as Mrs. Coulter (Nicole Kidman).

She's allowed to leave, equipped with the titular compass -- a truth meter which Lyra is among the privileged few to know how to interpret. Once in Mrs. Coulter's care, Lyra begins to surmise that the woman's motives are far from pure, and she escapes.

Inspired by her Arctic-exploring-uncle Lord Asriel (Daniel Craig) -- who, to the consternation of the Magisterium, is about to make some discoveries about the mysterious substance called Dust -- Lyra journeys northward. She hopes to rescue her young friend Roger (Ben Walker), who has been kidnapped by the Magisterium.

Lyra picks up several useful allies along the way, including John Faa (Jim Carter), a piratelike seafarer of the wandering tribe called Gyptians, Texas aeronaut Lee Scoresby (Sam Elliott), and a great polar bear named Iorek Byrnison (voice of Ian McKellen).

Even if Pullman's fanciful universe has a patchwork feel, with elements culled from other fantasy-adventure stories -- most especially "The Chronicles of Narnia" (a work Pullman disdains) -- there's hardly a dull moment, and the effects are beautifully realized, including the anthropomorphized creatures like the polar bears whose climactic fight is superbly done.

Richards makes an appealingly no-nonsense heroine, and Kidman makes a glamorous and chilling villain. Christopher Lee, Tom Courtenay and Derek Jacobi round out a distinguished cast, with excellent voice work from McKellen and others (e.g. Kathy Bates, Kristin Scott Thomas, Ian McShane and Freddie Highmore).

Whatever author Pullman's putative motives in writing the story, writer-director Chris Weitz's film, taken purely on its own cinematic terms, can be viewed as an exciting adventure story with, at its core, a traditional struggle between good and evil, and a generalized rejection of authoritarianism.

To the extent, moreover, that Lyra and her allies are taking a stand on behalf of free will in opposition to the coercive force of the Magisterium, they are of course acting entirely in harmony with Catholic teaching. The heroism and self-sacrifice that they demonstrate provide appropriate moral lessons for viewers.

There is, admittedly, a spirit of rebellion and stark individualism pervading the story. Lyra is continually drawn to characters who reject authority in favor of doing as they please. Equally, only by defying the powers that be, can a scientist like Lord Asriel achieve progress. Pullman is perhaps drawing parallels to the Catholic Church's restrictive stance towards the early alchemists and, later, Galileo.

The script also makes use of some of the occult concepts found in the books, such as the diabolically named "daemons" -- animal companions to each person, identified as their human counterpart's visible soul.

Is Pullman trying to undermine anyone's belief in God? Leaving the books aside, and focusing on what has ended up on-screen, the script can reasonably be interpreted in the broadest sense as an appeal against the abuse of political power.

Will seeing this film inspire teens to read the books, which many have found problematic? Rather than banning the movie or books, parents might instead take the opportunity to talk through any thorny philosophical issues with their teens.

The religious themes of the later books may be more prominent in the follow-up films which Weitz has vowed will be less watered down. For now, this film -- altered, as it is, from its source material -- rates as intelligent and well-crafted entertainment.

The film contains intense but bloodless fantasy violence, anti-clerical subtext, standard genre occult elements, a character born out of wedlock and a whiskey-guzzling bear. The USCCB Office for Film & Broadcasting classification is A-II -- adults and adolescents. The Motion Picture Association of America rating is PG-13 -- parents strongly cautioned. Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13.

- - -

Forbes is director and Mulderig is on the staff of the Office for Film & Broadcasting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. More reviews are available online at www.usccb.org/movies.

END

Link to article: http://www.usccb.org/movies/g/thegoldencompass.shtml
 
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Tiger

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You sure you should be posting other peoples' articles in their entireties?
 

chartreuse

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I haven't seen it yet, so I can't offer a review.

I find it really odd that the writer is shooting down his own work. His statements about trying to end Christianity can really hurt his sales and the movie sales.

Why on earth work so hard to break into writing, get nice sales, then push the 'hidden' (not so much in this case) agenda to the point of harming your career?

I'd have let the book speak for itself and keep my mouth shut about motives.

Perhaps the uproar will inprove sales.

Definitely. It's not my normal kind of thing, but anything that's got the religious right in an uproar is worth spending a few dollars on, IMHO.

I get so sick of their shrill hysteria anytime any work comes out that doesn't advance their own ridiculous agenda. Like writers only exist to promote organized religion.
 

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The first five minutes of The Golden Compass:(Perfectly legal, by the way) http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/thegoldencompass.html?showVideo=1

I'm all for fast-paced entertainment, but this is taking the piss a bit. I smell a Red Queen...

Although I haven't read the books I'm familiar with the basic mythology of Lyra's Oxford, so I wasn't completely lost.

Needless to say, I have better things to spend 6 quid on.