A bullet dodged?

Drop the name of this agent and we can probably tell you who she is and what the game plan is.

And I'm sorry about this. That's tough. Not exactly an expected reaction from a pro.

Tri

Well, it seems to me that (although you wouldn't necessarily say this to an agent) it's understood that if other agents were reading your materials you should give them some time to respond as well. That seems to be a commonly accepted protocol, but I've come across some other stories like yours as I've been reading.

Even if that wasn't the case with you, and you really did just want to think about it, the inference that you were following the respectful route (and also were confident enough about your book and your writing not to feel compelled to jump at an offer) would have made you seem like a very attractive person to work with in my eyes. I don't know if you dogded a bullet, but I wouldn wonder if this agent is an easy and respectful person herself for other professionals to work with.

How damn disappointing! Sorry about that.

Man, unbelievable. I'd definitely say you dodged a bullet.

This is NOT normal. My agent urged me to consider and take my time (altho to be honest I had done my research and Dorian was my first pick so I said yes right away).

You may however, scrutinize your part in the conversation to make sure you didn't say anything like "If no one else offers I'll get back to you..." or insulted her in some way. This is not hard to do on the phone LOL.
But suffice it to say it's not normal procedure -

I don't know about this agent, but it would make ME suspicious. Many years ago, I had an agent offer to represent me and her contract was weird to say the least. I had an attorney look it over and suggest changes, all perfectly reasonable. When I went back to the "agent" via email she flipped out and railed at me for daring to have an attorney look at it, no other clients had EVER done that. She withdrew her offer. Thank God! Because she turned out to be one of the biggest scammers out there who even later faked her death (as I found out via AW).

For whatever reason this agent reacted the way she did with you, you're most likely better off.

I agree the agent's behavior is weird. Of course you wanted to think about her offer before saying yes! That's a totally normal response, and it's also smart business behavior.

I do think you dodged a bullet--imagine signing a contract and only then finding out your new agent is an egomaniac.

Can you PM me the name? Just out of curiosity. Thanks.

- Victoria

Now, here's the kicker: Three hours later, she emailed, withdrew her offer and said she only wants to rep writers who are "wildly enthusiastic" about HER!

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Yes, it was your lucky day.

This agent was obviously worried that during your thinking spell, you might google her name or something, and then she would have wasted all that time smoozing you.


Good call, the weekend thing.

ORION said:

This is NOT normal. My agent urged me to consider and take my time.

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So did mine. In fact, she urged me to not rush the other agents into making a decision.

(Between that and the fact that she said she'd buy my book on release day if I went with another agent, is it any wonder she's the one I chose?)

victoriastrauss said:

I agree the agent's behavior is weird. Of course you wanted to think about her offer before saying yes! That's a totally normal response, and it's also smart business behavior.

I do think you dodged a bullet--imagine signing a contract and only then finding out your new agent is an egomaniac.

Can you PM me the name? Just out of curiosity. Thanks.

- Victoria

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This is so out there! Maybe it should go over on the B & BC board?

Wow -- that is a big bullet dodged if she was going to charge up front (creative title service?!?).

I will say, though, that I've seen a very reputable agent tell an author (after giving an offer and talking on the phone) that she might not be the best fit because both parties have to be enthusiastic about the relationship and the writer was wavering. I've seen another withdraw an offer because she felt that the writer wanted to do things in a way the agent didn't. I think in those cases it's just the agent recognizing that the relationship might not work out.

Gypsum did PM me the agent's name. The agent has a substantial track record, and I've never gotten any complaints or run across any negative information.

As Gypsum pointed out, the agent does offer a very large number of paid adjunct services--from publicity to editing to website building to the title origination service Gypsum mentioned. This poses at least a potential conflict of interest. Although it's a concern, though, I don't have any evidence at this point, just suspicion. If I ever do get something more concrete, I'll name the agent and port this thread over to B&BC--but for now, I don't want to cast aspersions without something to back them up.

- Victoria

Not knowing all the details or even who the agent is, it's hard for me to comment here, but I have been commenting elsewhere about the risks of asking an agent if it's okay to "think about it." Agents have egos also and it may bruise their ego to think they are not your number one choice. You don't want a lukewarm agent. We don't want lukewarm clients. Search my other posts for more on this subject.

As for the adjunct services, I'm certainly curious why they are a conflict of interest. If I offered a web-page building service for authors, would that be a conflict? If I had a publicist on staff who would create a promotional campaign for your book for a fee, is that a conflict? I believe at least one agency has added the latter service.

I recognize that many authors feel that agents should only be representing books and only earn their income from commissions, but that's unrealistic in a capitalistic society, not to mention an ever-more competitive book market. People have been saying for years that agents now do more editing than editors. Should those services be free? And should they only be available to clients? There is a growing business of free-lance editorial help. Are all those "book doctors" to be trusted? Is there a concern there could be a conflict there?

I'm not sure what the "creative" services offered are by this agent, but if you consider packaging in Hollywood and other things that happen in Hollywood, I'd have to say that the opportunities for conflict in the book business are few and far between.

I've just launched a new venture, as evidenced by my signature below. Is this a conflict? I'm not going to suggest that authors I reject go to my new venture for help, so I see no conflict. I'm not going to suggest that authors who work with the new venture be represented by me, either. So I see no conflict. I'm certain others will, even by virtue of my having both businesses listed in my signature. Or maybe one could look at it that a reputable agent with real editorial experience is now offering authors the chance to benefit from that editorial experience without facing the rejection that comes from so many agents. And, by the way, they may not even be edited by me. I am building a stable of veteran editors who will be working with authors, making Author Coach one-stop shopping site for editorial help. And in doing so, I feel I'm offering a real, beneficial service to authors, not creating conflict. This other agent may feel the same about the services she is offering.

Yet you say "I don't have any evidence at this point, just suspicion" and that concerns me. It's a guilty-until-proven-innocent approach and that's not how things work in our country.

Z

Andrew Zack said:

I've just launched a new venture, as evidenced by my signature below. Is this a conflict? I'm not going to suggest that authors I reject go to my new venture for help, so I see no conflict. I'm not going to suggest that authors who work with the new venture be represented by me, either. So I see no conflict. I'm certain others will, even by virtue of my having both businesses listed in my signature. Or maybe one could look at it that a reputable agent with real editorial experience is now offering authors the chance to benefit from that editorial experience without facing the rejection that comes from so many agents. And, by the way, they may not even be edited by me. I am building a stable of veteran editors who will be working with authors, making Author Coach one-stop shopping site for editorial help. And in doing so, I feel I'm offering a real, beneficial service to authors, not creating conflict. This other agent may feel the same about the services she is offering.

Z

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Actually, I do see some conflict, unless you explicitly say you won't represent your clients in the editing service and vice versa.
I am going to give a couple of examples how this can be viewed as conflict:
1. Are you prepared to take on as clients all the writers that use your editing service? Or do you tell some up front that no amount of editing will bring their manuscripts to the level where you'd accept them as clients? In both cases you won't have a lot of clients to your editing venture (for different reasons, of course). Yet, if you are not prepared to do one of the two, there will be a lot of heartache and persieved conflict of interests. This, of course, is only valid for things you actually represent (but if you don't then why would somebody hire you to edit it?).

2. A manuscript comes along that you feel is ready to be sent out to agents and editors (let's say on the level you usually accept). Of course, most of the manuscripts would still benefit from good professional editing, but in most cases the writer will get it for free from his agent/publisher. So what would you do in this case? Take the person's money (you would earn it, of course, but the person would be able to get it for free)? Or would you tell the writer he can send this out the way it already is?

3. A manuscript comes along (to the editing venture) that you absolutely love and would like to represent. It lacks a bit but with your guidance the writer would be able to put it in shape without paying. So what do you do? Pass on the ms and only edit it? Suggest to the writer he edits it himself in the following points and then resubmits to you as an agent? Take the writer on as an agent without having him pay for editing? Either way, you lose and the alternative of editing the ms for money and only then take the writer on, smells of conflict.


The cases are hypothetical, of course. I haven't read your guidelines for the editing service, so they are not a reflections on your work ethic in any way.

The two companies are completely separate. They have separate mailing addresses, separate websites, etc. If you visit AuthorCoach.com, you will find the following statement at the bottom of the biography page, which is the only page on which TZC is also mentioned: "The Zack Company, Inc. and Author Coach, LLC are entirely separate companies. They are not now nor will they ever be engaged in the practice of referring clients to each other. Author Coach, LLC pays no referral fees of any kind to third parties."

I think that says it all, but to be more responsive to your questions:

AuthorCoach is about helping writers become better writers. We don't promise anyone, ever, that they will get published. We are not just about editing, we are about coaching also, which goes well beyond editing. Some authors need someone to call them every week and ask how many pages they've written. We can do that. Some want to brainstorm ideas while plotting. We can help with that. Some want line-by-line editing. We can do that. Some want bigger-picture stuff. We can do that also. In the end, I do believe we can make any willing-and-able-to-learn author become a better writer, but we can never promise they'll get published.

If an author queries TZC about representation, he'll never hear from us about Author Coach. It will be rejected or accepted on its own merits. If accepted, we will work with the author as we work with all of our authors we represent. We do not charge our representation clients for editorial help.

Again, Author Coach is about helping writers become better at their craft and achieve their goals. If an ms comes along that I love, that doesn't mean it can't get better. I would work with that author to get it to be the best book he or she can make it. I've never read a book that wouldn't benefit from editing in some way.

Obviously I am sensitive to the concerns some authors may have and so I am as open as can be about these two businesses.

Z

As for the adjunct services, I'm certainly curious why they are a conflict of interest. If I offered a web-page building service for authors, would that be a conflict? If I had a publicist on staff who would create a promotional campaign for your book for a fee, is that a conflict? I believe at least one agency has added the latter service.

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I believe I know the agency you're referring to here. In this case, the agency's publicist works with the author/agents simultaneously with the publishing house's publicists, to make sure the offer is the best it can be, and also offers the author ways to publicize the book themselves. This is a free service. Additionally, the publicist also offers additional services, for a fee, which are completely optional. There are no "secret" or "hidden" charges, and the publicist is doing tangible, hard work -- like putting events together, pitching to the media -- things any out-hire publicist would do.

Not to say that agents don't do tangible, hard work -- they absolutely do -- but charging for a title change is a completely unreasonable service.

When my agent brainstorms with me about my career, my projects or titles she does not charge me "extra."
She receives her percentage from everything my book earns. We are a business team.

Andrew Zack said:

Obviously I am sensitive to the concerns some authors may have and so I am as open as can be about these two businesses.
Z

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I think the concerns here are not about you, but about the model. Anyone familiar with agenting and publishing in general would have no doubt about your honesty and effectiveness, whether or not they agreed with how you operate.

But it would be difficult for a new author to be able to assess the honesty and worth of an agent unknown to them who offered similar services. It seems there could be some potential for abuse here -- again, not by you but by others, less ethical, using a similar model.

Folio Literary Management, my group, has an in-house publicist who offers to do things that publishing houses won't (or can't) do. The publicist charges for her duties*, of course, but you are in no way obligated to hire her, and it is never mentioned until after the book sold. I didn't know the woman existed until months after the auction for my novel.

Folio also offers workshops and conference calls about publicity that are free of charge. They also have a public speaking coach on staff.

* Along with my agent, the publicist drew up a publicity proposal for my novel. This stuff ranged from about $500 to around $1000. Again, nothing is forced on you -- it's just offered.

Patricia:

I agree, when an agent brainstorms with a client on pretty much anything to do with their career, etc., there shouldn't be a fee. And I can't quite imagine there's an agent out there who charges to brainstorm titles. OMG, if I could get paid hourly for all the time I have spent trying to work out the best title for a book!

As for publicists, I actually am surprised that a firm who has one doesn't mention it early on. That's an important resource. Given two agents and all other things being equal, isn't the agent who also has a publicist available to help you and offer quality service a selling point?

Z