Question about the immune system

CalGrave · Nov 28, 2007

I am creating a character who is immune to a widespread supernatural virus. (Think I am Legend without the vampires) However for story reasons he can't just use his blood to create an antidote. The reason for his immunity is due to a natural but random mutation that can't be duplicated in other people. This causes him to be very valuable because he can travel to certain contaminated areas on the planet. Now, there is a device that alters human DNA and "re-writes" it to take on the properties of someone else's DNA. (Think Bioshock if you've had the pleasure to play it) The problem being is most of the time your body will likely break down from the process. So although he DNA is highly valued it is also useless to most, making him truly one of a kind.

Now, obviously this is science-FICTION and its a light sci-fi story so the technology isn't my main concern, but I still want it believable. I simply wanted the idea to be plausible enough so someone won't scream and throw the book out of the window, into heavy traffic. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

reenkam · Nov 28, 2007

Sorry, but...what's the question?

If you're asking if he could genetically be immune to the virus, there's no problem with that. There are several genetic mutations that make people immune to certain diseases.

job · Nov 28, 2007

CalGrave said:
I am creating a character who is immune to a widespread supernatural virus.. The reason for his immunity is due to a natural but random mutation that can't be duplicated in other people.

It's a bit like this ...

if you have a supernatural car that can run on water and jump from one dimension of reality to another, you may find it useful to use words like 'timing belt' and the 'carborator' and 'piston'.

But these are magical 'timing belts' and 'carborators' and 'pistons'.
You can give them pretty much any properties you want.
They don't work the way ordinary car equipment works.

CalGrave said:
IThis causes him to be very valuable because he can travel to certain contaminated areas on the planet.

Now here you probably will have to come up with a logical explanation.

The disease-related stuff can all just be 'Magic'. But here you'll have to explain to the reader why folks can't put on 'clean suits' or something.

CalGrave said:
I Now, there is a device that alters human DNA and "re-writes" it to take on the properties of someone else's DNA. ... The problem being is most of the time your body will likely break down from the process. So although he DNA is highly valued it is also useless to most, making him truly one of a kind.

Again. This is magic, so you can make any rules you like.

CalGrave said:
technology isn't my main concern, but I still want it believable. I simply wanted the idea to be plausible enough so someone won't scream and throw the book out of the window, into heavy traffic. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

It's not plausible as science. Only plausible as magic.

Somebody who knows cars is going to have difficulty if you start explaining that the pistons make the car fly. So it's probably best to be a little vague.

CalGrave · Nov 29, 2007

I suppose you are right, since this is a soft science fiction story explaining technology is not as important. I guess I'm just a little paranoid about saying "a wizard did it" for every situation and I wanted to be sure it was still believable, since it takes place in a fantasy version of our world. I think I can live with having the nature of his immunity being vague.
After all, most time traveling stories do that: It's a car that travel through time because I spent half of my life making it.
As opposed to: a thirty page exposition on its creation and the various quantum physics theories that will likely be outdated once the book is published.
I suppose my need for detail comes from many Scifi authors wowing us with all kinds of intricate information and my story has none of that so it began to bother me. But there's plenty of backstory so I guess thats the least of my worries, beside usually stuff like that is boring anyway.

Thank for pointing out the no suit problem by the way.

reenkam · Nov 29, 2007

Personally, I don't really see a problem with having one guy that's immune to a disease or virus. Even if it's a supernatural one. It's unlikely, but it's still scientific so I don't think you need magic to explain it. It's genetics.

The rewriting DNA is kind of implausible past doing it with undeveloped cells at the conception stage, but it seemed to me that you didn't want that process to work anyway.

The suit thing could be a problem, I suppose.

GeorgeK · Nov 29, 2007

CalGrave said:
I am creating a character who is immune to a widespread supernatural virus. (Think I am Legend without the vampires) However for story reasons he can't just use his blood to create an antidote. The reason for his immunity is due to a natural but random mutation that can't be duplicated in other people. This causes him to be very valuable because he can travel to certain contaminated areas on the planet. Now, there is a device that alters human DNA and "re-writes" it to take on the properties of someone else's DNA. (Think Bioshock if you've had the pleasure to play it) The problem being is most of the time your body will likely break down from the process. So although he DNA is highly valued it is also useless to most, making him truly one of a kind.
Now, obviously this is science-FICTION and its a light sci-fi story so the technology isn't my main concern, but I still want it believable. I simply wanted the idea to be plausible enough so someone won't scream and throw the book out of the window, into heavy traffic. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

So you are asking if he can be immune and they dont have the technology to use his blood or DNA to make vaccines or antibodies? Yes, that's totally plausible. Actually most of the movies that show them so easily making vaccines are the implausible ones. It's like the 1.5% of caucasians who are immune to HIV. They don't have any natural antibodies. They lack the receptor for the virus to be taken up in the first place. That's one of the reasons they think HIV is an ancient European disease, because in Asians the percentage is only 0.75% and in Africans it is close to zero. Generally the more a trait shows up in a population, the more there was a positive selection force for it. The less a trait shows up either the more negative selection pressure or the more temporally removed the population is from the original selection pressure.

At the risk of sounding teleologic, that's the whole point of genetic recombinations so that there will be varriances so that during a cataclysm some people make it through. Your guy is simply one of the lucky and chances are there's a few more out there. They don't need to be related to the supernatural, or have eaten any particular food or any such stretch of plot. They just got lucky.

HeronW · Dec 17, 2007

Immunity transfer

In fact: (from my partner the PhD in molecular biology)

IGm--immunoglobin memory cells from the liver called B cells like lymphocytes can attack any threat and these are generic to anyone --they are transferable like blood and the recepient takes immune-supressent drugs the same as if they had a transplant.

In fiction: Immunity can be localized to one person and impossible to retrofit to another for many reasons. One way is by having each cell have a soma--body memory to this person, and within each cell, the RNA and even the atoms be specific to know where they come from and A: they will not survive elsewhere or even B: they will harm the recipients because they were removed by force/under duress/without freely given consent.

We can 'engineer' genes in lower animals--they just did a strain of mice who aren't afraid of cats-by turning off the 'fear' gene before birth but since the man is adult, his stem cells can only become more blood cells. He was discovered to be immune as an adult right? So no embryonic stem cells exist from his birth?

So no tossing books into heavy traffic, rush hour is bad enough! :}

CalGrave · Dec 17, 2007

His immunity was discovered when he was a boy which causes him to become quite "popular"
I just remembered the reason I started this thread:
Another thing about his immune system isn't the fact that he is immune to the virus itself, that's just a benefit. His immune system in general is powerful and the thing in particular I was wondering, say he begins using a powerful performance enhancer (He's an adult now) that would give its user remarkable strength and reflexes but under normal circumstances the effects prolonged use leads to negative effects such as mood swings, (roid rage) and psychedelic effects. But for whatever sciencey reason I can't come up with his immune system washes out the drug before he becomes (chemically) addicted to it and it messes up his mind, because of this advantage he injects it constantly in effect making him "high" on the drug but not negatively effected by it. But the downside is that the more he uses it the more resistance his body builds towards it.
Besides giving the not so politically correct message that performance enhancers make you better at your job is this plausible?
Either way I now know how I'm going to handle the virus and I appreciate all of the help I have been given so far!

mommyjo2 · Dec 18, 2007

Or, you could pull an Orson Scott Card and go into mind numbing intellectual detail, so much so that the reader forgets what was said last chapter, and then go from there. Or am I the only one who made it all the way through Xenocide?

BTW, I think this would totally work as a SciFi; the results don't have to be explained by "magic".

CalGrave · Dec 18, 2007

I stopped after Speaker...I hated the ending, I liked the Shadow series better. I suppose that is relevant because the difference between the two is how the science is handled, certain things in the Shadow series are explained with just enough detail but don't bore us, and that is the style I would rather emulate

GeorgeK · Dec 22, 2007

CalGrave said:
His immunity was discovered when he was a boy which causes him to become quite "popular"
I just remembered the reason I started this thread:
Another thing about his immune system isn't the fact that he is immune to the virus itself, that's just a benefit. His immune system in general is powerful and the thing in particular I was wondering, say he begins using a powerful performance enhancer (He's an adult now) that would give its user remarkable strength and reflexes but under normal circumstances the effects prolonged use leads to negative effects such as mood swings, (roid rage) and psychedelic effects. But for whatever sciencey reason I can't come up with his immune system washes out the drug before he becomes (chemically) addicted to it and it messes up his mind, because of this advantage he injects it constantly in effect making him "high" on the drug but not negatively effected by it. But the downside is that the more he uses it the more resistance his body builds towards it.
Besides giving the not so politically correct message that performance enhancers make you better at your job is this plausible?
Either way I now know how I'm going to handle the virus and I appreciate all of the help I have been given so far!

That's not the immune system. That's the liver metabolizing drugs. However a non-medical person (most of the population) might not care about the difference.

GeorgeK · Dec 22, 2007

HeronW said:
In fact: (from my partner the PhD in molecular biology)

IGm--immunoglobin memory cells from the liver called B cells like lymphocytes can attack any threat and these are generic to anyone --they are transferable like blood and the recepient takes immune-supressent drugs the same as if they had a transplant.
:}

IgM...are you describing gamma globulin shots? because you don't give people immuno suppressants normally in the same setting (unless there's some new thing that I haven't heard of) and there are plenty of threats that IgM will be ineffective at

ColoradoGuy · Dec 25, 2007

CalGrave said:
His immunity was discovered when he was a boy which causes him to become quite "popular"
I just remembered the reason I started this thread:
Another thing about his immune system isn't the fact that he is immune to the virus itself, that's just a benefit. His immune system in general is powerful and the thing in particular I was wondering, say he begins using a powerful performance enhancer (He's an adult now) that would give its user remarkable strength and reflexes but under normal circumstances the effects prolonged use leads to negative effects such as mood swings, (roid rage) and psychedelic effects. But for whatever sciencey reason I can't come up with his immune system washes out the drug before he becomes (chemically) addicted to it and it messes up his mind, because of this advantage he injects it constantly in effect making him "high" on the drug but not negatively effected by it. But the downside is that the more he uses it the more resistance his body builds towards it.
Besides giving the not so politically correct message that performance enhancers make you better at your job is this plausible?
Either way I now know how I'm going to handle the virus and I appreciate all of the help I have been given so far!

This scenario doesn't have anything to do with immunity. As others have said, you could easily make him immune to the effects of an infectious agent, especially a virus, by making him have a genetic mutation altering the structure of the receptor on the surface of the target cells in his body for the virus. That would be a specific and permanent thing. I can't think of a plausible way to work in the other effects you want. But it's fiction--do whatever your story needs.

Question about the immune system

CalGrave

reenkam

aka cupcake

job

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

CalGrave

reenkam

aka cupcake

GeorgeK

ever seeking

HeronW

Down Under Fan

CalGrave

mommyjo2

Bad grammar make me [sic]

CalGrave

GeorgeK

ever seeking

GeorgeK

ever seeking

ColoradoGuy

I've seen worse.